Posted on 12/04/2002 2:41:16 PM PST by HAL9000
Sharon proposes a Palestinian State on some 40% of the West Bank
Wednesday December 04, 2002 - 21h34 GMT
JERUSALEM, 4 déc (AFP) - Israeli the Prime Minister Ariel Sharon publicly proposed Wednesday the creation of a Palestinian State extending on the zones under Palestinian administration, that is to say some 40% of the West Bank and three quarters of the Gaza Strip.
It is the first time since its entry in function at the post of Prime Minister in March which 2001 Mr. Sharon specifies publicly his sights on the extent of a Palestinian State.
"Within the framework fixed by president (American George W.) Bush, Israel will accept the creation of a Palestinian State in nonfinal borders, which will correspond to those of zone A and B "under Palestinian administration, declared Mr. Sharon with Israeli television.
Mr. Sharon ensured that Israel did not intend "to keep the control" of the zones re-occupied in the West Bank by its army during last months within the framework of the repression of Intifada, started at the end of September 2000.
"If the Israeli army operates today without obstacles in the Palestinian cities, it is for reasons of safety and that does not mean questioning of their autonomous statute" of zone, underlined Mr. Sharon.
"Israel will not take again the control of zones of which it was withdrawn two years ago within the framework of political agreements", it continued.
It stressed that Israel would reserve "zones of safety" in territory Palestinian and reaffirmed that a Palestinian State should be disarmed, Israel "keeping the control of its borders and its airspace".
It posed moreover a series of preconditions before any agreement on a Palestinian State: the replacement of the Palestinian direction, the major reforms in the Palestinian Authority and "over all the dismantling of the Palestinian concerned with safety units" which it showed "to be implied à.fond in terrorism".
It qualified the Bush plan in favour of the creation of a State Palestinian of "logic, reasonable and realistic" and promised that a government of national union - that it intends to form after the legislative elections of January 28 would adopt it formally.
By signing the agreements of Wye Plantation in October 1998, Israel had accepted that the zones controlled completely or partially by the Palestinians pass to 40% of the West Bank, from which some 18% pennies control total Palestinian.
A Palestinian State on the zones A and B would have the form of a kind of patchwork. These zones were indeed cut out by Israel in order to preserve more than 160 Jewish colonies of settlement.
Mr. Sharon spoke at the time of a conference with Herzliya (northern of Tel-Aviv) devoted to the Israeli sedentary problems.
That's 40% too much. Send them all to Jordan and Egypt instead.
" So let it be written.....so let it be done"! [accompanied by colorfull hand gestures]
The Spanish had the Straights of Gibralter (SP.)to send the Moors across, and thus insure a separation of hostile thinkers. Israel has no such natural divide.
No Arab state in Eretz Yisrael. EVER!
He should change his name to Judas.
They could offer 99.99% of all of Israel and they would bitch about it.
This will give some idea of their avarice for Jewish held lands. This shows Israel at the time of the 1948 invasion.
I'll re-cut'n'paste one of my oldposts.
==================================================
Another plan from reputable sources.
Thoughtful military experts have for many years recognized the risks for Israel should it no longer be able to control the territories it acquired in the course of the Six-Day War in June 1967. For example, shortly after the end of that conflict, the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff concluded that, "From a strictly military point of view, Israel would require the retention of some captured territory in order to provide militarily defensible borders."
The Chiefs made the following specific findings:
"The prominent high ground running north-south through the middle of West Jordan [Judea and Samaria] generally...would provide Israel with a militarily defensible border."
"The commanding territory east of the boundary of 4 June 1967 [the Golan Heights]...overlooks the Galilee area. To provide a defense in-depth, Israel would need a strip about 15 miles wide extending from the border of Lebanon to the border of Jordan."
"By occupying the Gaza Strip, Israel would trade approximately 45 miles of hostile border for eight. Configured as it [was prior to 1967], the strip serve[d] as a salient for introduction of Arab subversion and terrorism and its retention would be to Israel's military advantage."
"To defend the Jerusalem area would require that the boundary of Israel be positioned to the east of the city to provide for the organization of an adequate defensive position."
…………………………
These findings are as valid today as they were in 1967. In fact, they have been reaffirmed again and again by knowledgeable military professionals. For example, in October 1988, 100 senior U.S. generals and admirals issued a public call for Israel to "retain the Jordan River line as [her] eastern security border" noting that:
"...If Israel loses this line, it would have virtually no warning of attack, its border would be three times longer than the present one. In the midsection of the country it would be 9 to 18 miles from the Mediterranean. Virtually all the population would be subject to artillery bombardment. The plain north of Tel Aviv could be riven by an armored salient within hours. The quick mobilization of its civilian army -- Israel's main hope for survival -- would be disrupted easily, and perhaps irreversibly."
…………………………
In 1991, Lieutenant General Thomas Kelly, the highly respected chief of Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff during Desert Storm, said, "Israel's control over these areas is the only guarantee, however imperfect, of peace. Their loss is a prescription for war." He added that:
"The West Bank mountains, and especially their approaches, are the critical terrain. If an enemy secures those passes, Jerusalem and all of Israel become uncovered. Without the West Bank, Israel is only eight miles wide at its narrowest point. That makes it indefensible."
…………………………
Importantly, the Israeli Defense Forces are under no illusion about the abiding importance of strategic analyses like that performed by the Joint Chiefs. As the IDF Chief of Staff Ehud Barak said in May 1993:
"The 1967 Joint Chiefs of Staff memorandum [is] still applicable. The Arab arms are reaching superiority over Israel with a qualitative as well as quantitative edge....If Israel has to retake the territories proposed to be given up, we cannot do it without tremendous casualties."
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Re the post and #20, this is a serious solution that can be instituted unilaterally. If Egypt wants to provide additional land down around Al Arish way, through either generosity or foolhardiness, so much the better. That was another 67-68 plan.
I'd entertain ideas as to why this couldn't/shouldn't work from a realistic political perspective, as opposed to kill them all or send them to Jordan, which Israel isn't going to do any time soon.
Yes I believe they would but noneltheless , Sharon should offer 50% and if tell them that if they refuse this offer he will begin the cleansing of Palis in the region. Sounds fair to me.
The panel to the left says Ken which means YES to ERETZ Y'ISRAEL (The land of Israel)
Unfortunately my Hebrew is not good enough to translate the bottom paragraph. Perhaps someone else can fill in for us?
Arafat turning down the Camp David agreement, when Barak was gonna give him everything...may go down as one of the greatest political blunders in history.......The Camp David offer sucked, from a Palestinian viewpoint. It bordered on insulting. It's the Clinton/Barak spin machine that made it out to be some great offer.
The Taba proposal was much fairer, but it was withdrawn when Sharon won the election.
Offering the Palestinians a chopped up non-contiguous and economically unviable "state" is reminiscent of the South African "homelands" more than anything else.
By the way, if the Israelis ever started wholesale deportations of Palestinians into Jordan, Bush or any other concievable US President would immediately cut off all US aid. The recent comments by Ambassador Kurtzer made it crystal clear that the US is intensely and unequivocally opposed to the Eitam/Kach agenda.
-Eric
Offered 40%, probably won't take that either. Continued defeat in battle, before G-d and among nations.
May yet be offered 5% at some later date, and they'd better settle then.
and Gaza and the west bank are contiguous?One of the proposals I've heard is an extraterritorial rail/highway corridor across the Negev, in exchange for some of the built up areas north and south of Jerusalem that are technically "settlements". Something much like this connected West Berlin to West Germany.
-Eric
Keep going at this rate and in a year or two, it will be South Lebanon all over again.
A War of Attrition is simply not the way to win.
I did find a nice graphic with an X over an assasinated Israeli leader shaking hands with Arafat, with the footnote, one down, one to go.
Eh, that gives the materials ever so much credibility.
From: "MEMRI"
Subject: Al-Qa'ida-Affiliated Web Site Warns of Attack During Id Al-Fitr
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:33:24 -0500
Special Alert - Jihad and Terrorism
December 4, 2002
No. 5
To view this Special Alert in HTML format, please visit:
http://www.memri.org/bin/opener_latest.cgi?ID=SA502
Al-Qa'ida-Affiliated Web Site Warns of Attack During Id Al-Fitr, December 5-6, and Announces Palestinian Branch of Al-Qa'ida
A communiqué in which the Al-Qa'ida organization took responsibility for the Mombasa, Kenya terror attacks was first posted on the "News about the Jihad and the Mujahideen" forum of the Islamist website www. mojahedoon.net by Abu Shihab Al-Qandahari, the forum's deputy moderator. Al-Qandahari posted another communiqué in which he threatened Americans with a terror attack on the Muslim holiday of 'Id al-Fitr, December 5 or 6. All the Koran verses cited in the communiqué were from Chapter 8, Surat Al-Tauba (Repentance), which devout Muslims - among them Osama bin Laden - have frequently quoted, throughout Islamic history. The following are excerpts from the communiqué: (1)
"A Warning to All the Enemies of Allah, the Americans, and Their Jewish, Arab, and Foreign Supporters"
"...This is a warning to Americans in Yemen, the peninsula of Muhammad, Africa, and Asia. If you do not leave our land, we are announcing to you what our Prophet [Muhammad] announced to the Quraysh [tribe] - slaughter. Your tyranny, your arrogance, your cruelty, and your misguidance have increased, and we are sworn not to heed the instructions of the traitorous [i.e. Muslim] governments regarding you."
"Oh community of Americans, we swear by the one who has the soul of Muhammad in his hands [i.e. Allah] that the young men of Islam have brought slaughter upon you. Leave our land and stop supporting the plundering Jews; return to your countries, otherwise the sword will be between us and you."
"We Warn You... You Will Reap Death"
"We warn you: Leave the land of Yemen and the land of the Prophet [Saudi Arabia]. Otherwise, you will reap death because of [your] stupidity in ignoring our warnings to you."
"We do not recognize your agreement with the [Muslim] governments that have renounced their religion. 'How can there be a guarantee for the idolaters on the part of Allah and His Messenger, except in favor of those with whom you entered into an express treaty at the Sacred Mosque? So long as they carry out the obligations hereunder, you must carry out your obligations. Surely, Allah loves those who are mindful of their obligations.'"(2)
"... Know that the young men of Yemen and of the land of Muhammad are preparing grief and grave disasters for you. If you do not leave our land and stop supporting our enemies, we will remove you with our swords, as it is said: 'Fight them. Allah will torture them at your hands, and will humiliate them, and will help you to overcome them, and will relieve the minds of the believers of fear and distress, and will remove their feeling of resentment. Allah turns with mercy to whomsoever He pleases.'"(3)
"These words are directed at you, oh Americans, you who have made your dear ones [sic] and your monks into a god other than Allah. We announce to you the imminent end of your pleasant lives: 'They have taken their rabbis and their monks for gods beside Allah, and also the Messiah son of Mary. They had only been commanded to worship the One God. There is no god but He [Allah]. Holy is He above that which they associate with Him.'"(4)
"Allah's commandment to fight you has already been carried out, and you are worthy of the disasters and tortures planned for you. 'Oh Prophet, fight the Jihad against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and press hard on them. Their abode is hell and an evil destination it is. They swear by Allah they have not said anything derogatory. Most certainly have they blasphemed, and disbelieved after they had professed Islam. They entertained evil designs which they could not carry into effect. They cherish hatred against the believers only because Allah and His Messenger had enriched them out of His bounty. Now if they repent it will be better favor them, but if they turn away, Allah will torment them with painful tortures in this world and in the Hereafter, and they shall have neither friend nor helper in the world.'"(5)
A Ramadan Gift is on the Way to the American People
"Oh American people, you are the victim of your leaders, but you are also a partner in the war on us, because you applaud them when they killed the children of Iraq; applaud the Jews when they killed the children of Palestine... Allah has cursed you in this world and in the Hereafter and promised you terrible tortures. Defiantly, you have not learned your lesson from which you suffered, the raids on Washington and New York; on the contrary, the tyranny and oppression that you employ towards the slaves [of Allah] has increased, primarily in Palestine whose children did not enjoy the month of good and blessing [Ramadan]. Therefore the brothers gave them a gift for Ramadan in Mombasa, and the gift for the holiday ['Id al-Fitr, at the end of Ramadan] is on its way."
"You did not understand the reasons for the raids of Washington and New York. Allah rightly said about you: 'Is he who lays the foundation of his structure on fear of Allah and His pleasure better off, or he who lays the foundation of his structure on the brink of a tottering hollow bank which tumbles down with it into the fire of hell? Allah guides not the wrongdoing people. This structure of theirs, which they have built, will ever continue to be a source of disquiet in their hearts, unless their hearts are cut to pieces and they perish. Allah is all-knowing, wise.'"(6)
"Allah's words were rightly said about those who slew you on that white day: 'Allah has purchased from the believers their souls and their property in return for the promise that they shall have Paradise, for they fight in the cause of Allah and they slay and are themselves slain. This is a promise that He has made incumbent upon Himself as set out in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who is more faithful to his promise than Allah? Rejoice, then, in the agreement that you have made with Him; that indeed is the supreme triumph."(7)
"Allah promises [the Muslims] Paradise, and to you he has promised defeat. Which of these two promises is more worthy of being a promise of truth? Oh community of Americans, we repeat for the thousandth time: Leave our lands and stop supporting the Jews, otherwise men faithful to their vow to Allah will come upon you [to martyr themselves]..."
"Allah is great, and strength to Islam; Allah is great, long live proud Palestine as it explodes against the enemies."
Announcement:
The Establishment of the Palestinian Branch of Al-Qa'ida Vowing Allegiance to bin Laden
In the same forum, a reader, Abu Banan, posted an announcement of the establishment of "the Islamic Al-Qa'ida Organization in Palestine."(10)
The announcement read:
"...Brothers in Islam: From the land of the Night Journey and the Ascension to Heaven, we announce to the Islamic nation the establishment of the Islamic Al-Qa'ida Organization in Palestine, which will serve as a powerful basis for restoring the rights of our Arab and Islamic people in Palestine, [and] will defeat the Zionist Jewish invaders [and] return them to the place from whence they came. We declare that the squadrons of our martyrs will strike with all their strength at the Zionist and American arrogance in the region, and that the blood of our men in Palestine, in Afghanistan, and in Kashmir will [not] be shed unavenged..."
"Islamic Al-Qa'ida in Palestine joins its voice with the voices of the mujahideen in Palestine in its resistance to the partial and submissive solutions, and will accept nothing but the full liberation of the Palestinian land. Similarly, we call to the mujahideen in the Al- Nusseirat camp in the Gaza Strip to immediately stop the fighting between Hamas and the people of the Palestinian Authority, because these deeds serve only the murderous Jews, the Great Satans. From the land of the Night Journey we again declare a vow of allegiance to the Emir of the mujahideen, the leader Osama bin Laden, by means of whom Allah strengthened the Nation of Islam."
"Brothers in Islam: The Jihad against the [camp of] heresy and its regimes and symbols has arrived. The mujahideen of the Nation must rid themselves of the regimes of heresy and deception in our Arab countries. We call on our brothers in Islam in Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia to attack the American interests and the heretical institutions of apostasy [i.e. the regimes of these countries]. Allah willing, we will be the victors!"
"Death to the Jews and Zionism; strength to Allah, Allah is great, and victory to Islam!"
"The Islamic Al-Qa'ida Organization
The Stars of the Martyrs [in Arabic, Kawakib Al-Shuhada](11)
Ramadan 29, 1423 [December 4, 2002]"
In other words all the land outside of what the Jews directly owned was to be given to Arafat. If everything is not enough, there is nothing that will be enough.
but these settlements (which hold less than 10% of the population of the West Bank, and 1% of Gaza) hold almost half the land.
Either you have never looked at a map, or you are looking at the half of the land that is left called Israel.
Why should the Arab invaders be given land for killing people in the first place? Why not just annex the land that was recaptured from Jordan and make the Arabs move to Jordan which was created out of Israel to make them a home land in the first place? How many times will the Arabs demand another chunk of Israel so that they will stop killing Jews and you will swallow the lie hook line and sinker.
I take it you wear a black veil, because burka blue is out of style in your area. I guess you are a women, because you obviously have never been to school, that 5%+1% becomes half the land. You forgot to mention the 6% of Land in Israeli control that was to be surrendered to build a free passage between the two areas, Israel was even going to build the road for free as the Arabs only know how to build bombs, roads seem to beyond their technology.
I am sick of the lies of you Islamics, I suggest you contemplate that lies don't stop daisy cutters. Your attack on the World Trade Center was murder plain and simple and the Judgement day fast approaches.
Lets engage a brain cell or two Rocc. The only way to offer a non chopped up Arab State is to give them only Gaza and not the west bank or visa versa. Or of course for the Jews to give them all of Israel.
Lets engage another brain cell just for the fun of it. If the Palestinians have not been able to create a viable "state" with BILLIONs in World Aid in SEVEN YEARS, I submit it is impossible for them to ever create a "state" on their own with no aid if you give them the entire Earths Surface.
Tell me Rocc, what to they propose to export? Hi-tech? The only international thing the Palestinians have ever made in 50 years is international terrorism, and nobody wants to buy some and take it home. Stop ignoring the fact that the "Palestinians" are Arabs, who were given land for a "state" called Jordan, so that they could all move there and live happy ever after. That is after they were given Syria for a State to go live in happy ever after. So if they are given another, another, another chunk of their sworn bloodlust enemy's land are they going to suddenly live happy ever after?
You are naive or evil. But you do side with and give aid to terrorists. Why I don't know, or even care, because I am not your psychoanalyst. I just figure you are a rattlesnake.
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