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Local, national groups call for end to ‘war on drugs’
Middletown Press ^ | December 04, 2002 | JOHN ZORABEDIAN

Posted on 12/04/2002 3:05:07 PM PST by MrLeRoy

MIDDLETOWN -- Peter Christ and Cliff Thornton are two men with very different backgrounds: Thornton was a substitute teacher in Hartford’s schools, and Christ is a former police officer in western New York state. But both men have reached the same conclusion -- that the ‘war on drugs’ is a massive failure that only deepens the national crisis of addiction and drug-related crime.

After 20 years on opposite sides of a war that has cost over $1 trillion in 30 years, with millions of casualties on both sides, the two men, and many more around the country, are pursuing campaigns to decriminalize illicit drugs.

"No matter how many (drug offenders) are locked up, the problem doesn’t go away ..it gets worse," said Thornton, an educator for a Hartford-based drug law reform group. "The drug war is a colossal waste of resources (and) we must dismantle this monster."

Speaking to a large group of students at Wesleyan University Tuesday, Thornton and Christ explained their shared perception of the so-called drug war as a policy that not only fails to keep drugs off the streets and out of schools, but leads to the incarceration of large sectors of the population -- mostly poor people and minorities.

"The average drug user in the United States has a 40-hour per week job and is white," said Thornton, who cited reports from Amnesty International condemning U.S. drug policy for its violations of human and civil rights. "But the faces of prisoners are overwhelmingly black and brown."

African-American men make up only 3 percent of Connecticut’s population, according to Thornton’s group, Efficacy, but constitute 47 percent of all inmates in the state’s prisons and halfway houses.

Prisons themselves are "largely violent, drug-ridden places," he said, where inmates are not likely to get the treatment they need."

Although Thornton likened the "war on drugs" to "class and race warfare," Christ said he views the prohibition of drugs as a matter of practicality -- prohibition simply doesn’t work.

Alcohol prohibition ended in the 1930s, "not because alcohol became benign ..but because we realized the policy (of prohibition) caused more problems than (alcohol did)," said Christ.

A founding member of the national group Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, Christ said he wants to see drugs legalized as a way to reduce drug-related crime and to regulate dangerous drugs.

Comparing drug prohibition to abortion and gambling laws, Christ said legalization will not cause an increase in the number of drug addicts.

"I want to regulate and control drugs in this country," said Christ. "You can’t regulate the black market."

The forum was sponsored by the Wesleyan group Students for Sensible Drug Policy.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: brownshirts; drug; druggiewhine; jbtsonparade; obeyorpay; onlydopesusedope; wod; wodlist
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1 posted on 12/04/2002 3:05:07 PM PST by MrLeRoy
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To: *Wod_list
Wod_list ping
2 posted on 12/04/2002 3:05:23 PM PST by MrLeRoy
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To: MrLeRoy
""I want to regulate and control drugs in this country," said Christ. "You can’t regulate the black market." "

Finally, a cop who get's it.

L

3 posted on 12/04/2002 3:06:56 PM PST by Lurker
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To: MrLeRoy
The drug problem is a problem on the demand side of the equation. The stupid WOD targets the supply side and cannot succeed.
4 posted on 12/04/2002 3:08:42 PM PST by RJCogburn
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To: RJCogburn
There is no drug problem.

As always , there is a political 'problem'.
5 posted on 12/04/2002 3:12:26 PM PST by headsonpikes
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To: Wolfie; vin-one; WindMinstrel; headsonpikes; philman_36; Beach_Babe; jenny65; AUgrad; Xenalyte; ...
WOD Ping
6 posted on 12/04/2002 3:14:01 PM PST by jmc813
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To: headsonpikes
There is no drug problem.

An overstatement IMHO. I would agree that there is no drug problem that is the proper object of government coercion.

7 posted on 12/04/2002 3:16:24 PM PST by MrLeRoy
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To: MrLeRoy
Peter Christ and Cliff Thornton are two men with very different backgrounds: Thornton was a substitute teacher in Hartford’s schools, and Christ is a former police officer in western New York state. But both men have reached the same conclusion --

They are complete and utter morons. And most of America agrees.

8 posted on 12/04/2002 3:17:10 PM PST by Houmatt
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To: MrLeRoy
This is an amazing site. Just say drugs or sodomy and you'll get 1000 replies. Of course I add to the total. Put me down for repeal of drug laws and putting gangs out of business.
9 posted on 12/04/2002 3:18:52 PM PST by breakem
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To: Houmatt
They are complete and utter morons. And most of America agrees.

Actually, a recent poll showed that 74% of Americans agreed that the War On Drugs has failed.

10 posted on 12/04/2002 3:20:05 PM PST by MrLeRoy
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To: Houmatt
"And most of America agrees."

Thus substantiating de Tocqueville's fears about American 'democracy'.

IMO.
11 posted on 12/04/2002 3:20:41 PM PST by headsonpikes
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To: MrLeRoy
There is no war on drugs.

The actual "war" is by the armed alphabet agencies to maintain their funding and keep their "killing machine" agencies in power.

These agencies are also afraid that the absolute corruption that is rampant within these agencies.

The lie that is out there is that these agencies "hate" each other.

Verified proof is mounting exponentially that many agents from differing agencies are working hand in hand to enrich themselves and their nepotic families.
12 posted on 12/04/2002 3:21:57 PM PST by Vidalia
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To: Houmatt
Even if your facts were correct, citing the general agreement of the public is not exactly a strong argument. Remember, Clintoon was elected twice...
13 posted on 12/04/2002 3:38:07 PM PST by ellery
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To: ellery
Even if your facts were correct

Which they are NOT

14 posted on 12/04/2002 3:42:20 PM PST by clamper1797
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To: MrLeRoy
Drug use kills people. It always has, and it always will. Now, who do you want it to kill?

Legal drug use kills drug users, and the occasional innocent bystander when a user uses drugs in a car.

Illegal drug use kills drug users, drug dealers, victims of crimes that drug users commit so that they can afford expensive illegal drugs, victims of crimes that drug dealers commit so that they can continue their illegal activities, innocent bystanders that get hit when gang-bangers have a shoot-out, cops trying to enforce the law, etc.

I'd rather have the law set up so that drug users just kill themselves, and minimize the killing of other people. I don't recall anywhere in the Bible where it says, "Thou shalt not smoke dope."
15 posted on 12/04/2002 3:42:50 PM PST by RonF
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To: MrLeRoy
Actually, a recent poll showed that 74% of Americans agreed that the War On Drugs has failed.

And who did the poll? When?

Nobody I know thinks we should just throw up our hands and legalize drugs. And I have never been called and polled about anything.

So I seriously doubt the veracity of any poll; that one especially.

16 posted on 12/04/2002 3:49:53 PM PST by Houmatt
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To: Houmatt
WOD = total waste of my tax money.

Government should hand out as many / much drugs as they can get their hands on. I say, pass 'em out like Chicklets every Monday at about noon. Get the little kiddies out of school for an hour or so, down to the local holding pen and have 'em watch the losers smoke crack until they crap their pants and bleed from their eyes. When they flop around on the ground like fish on a dock and their eyes roll into the back of their heads and their hearts explode, the little kiddies will see the effects of drug use.

Publik Edumacation at it's best.....Scared straight or whatever you want to call it. I'll bet the kiddies will run like hell at the mere mention of "illy".

Just a thought.

I'd pay to see it on PPV. :)
17 posted on 12/04/2002 4:03:02 PM PST by taxed2death
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To: MrLeRoy
Are you quite sure of that figure? The last I saw a survey, 88% of respondents approved of the Drug War and wanted to see it continued at least.

As others have already said, one doesn't argue for a policy position by using its popularity. Alcohol Prohibition and the Income Tax Amendment both commanded a majority at one time, too. But I hope you have a good source for those numbers. It would be terrible to be called on them in the thick of debate.

PS: I'm pro-legalization.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit the Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com

18 posted on 12/04/2002 4:27:21 PM PST by fporretto
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To: taxed2death
F*ck off, troll.
19 posted on 12/04/2002 4:31:00 PM PST by Houmatt
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To: ellery
Even if your facts were correct, citing the general agreement of the public is not exactly a strong argument. Remember, Clintoon was elected twice...

What you're saying is that people are too stupid to govern themselves.
So the lifestylepolice/gungrabbers/drugwarriors should run the country
according to their own lights?
20 posted on 12/04/2002 4:34:02 PM PST by gcruse
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To: Houmatt
I took a gander at your home page and found this...

I am a firm believer in the use of common sense and personal responsibility. If you put a cup of hot coffee between your legs, remove the lid and burn yourself, that is YOUR fault. It is YOUR fault if you get fat from eating fast food. It is YOUR fault if you get cancer from smoking cigarettes.

Why do you support the War on Drugs?
21 posted on 12/04/2002 4:36:37 PM PST by jmc813
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To: clamper1797; ellery; Houmatt
WASHINGTON (AP) — Three-fourths of Americans think the nation is losing the war on drugs and think the demand for drugs is so high it will be impossible to stop their use, a poll says.
22 posted on 12/04/2002 4:42:09 PM PST by gcruse
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: jmc813
Why do you support the War on Drugs?

1) Drugs are illegal (as they should be).

2) Drugs kill.

Any questions?

24 posted on 12/04/2002 5:09:53 PM PST by Houmatt
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To: cryofan3
The fact is most drug deaths are due to impurities or even quality/strengths. THat should be obvious to anyone who has done even cursory research on the problem. Obviously (I hope), you realize that legalization would basically eliminate this problem.

And it would obviously make things easier for you.

25 posted on 12/04/2002 5:12:13 PM PST by Houmatt
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To: gcruse
Three-fourths of Americans think the nation is losing the war on drugs and think the demand for drugs is so high it will be impossible to stop their use, a poll says.

And I am sure the same amount of people would believe the moon landing was faked and the world is flat, depending on how you ask the question.

26 posted on 12/04/2002 5:15:27 PM PST by Houmatt
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To: Houmatt
Drugs are illegal (as they should be)

Circular reasoning.

Drugs kill

Alcohol and nicotine kill far more. Should they be illegal? Obesity is becoming the leading health problem. Should McDonalds be sued out of existence?

27 posted on 12/04/2002 5:17:43 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: ThinkDifferent
Circular reasoning.

Point?

Alcohol and nicotine kill far more.

Exactly. And that is because they are legal, not in spite of it.

28 posted on 12/04/2002 5:22:42 PM PST by Houmatt
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To: Houmatt
1) Drugs are illegal (as they should be).

Aspirin is legal (as it should be).

2) Drugs kill.

Aspirin kills.

Any questions?

Any answers?

EBUCK

29 posted on 12/04/2002 5:27:08 PM PST by EBUCK
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To: Houmatt
And I am sure the same amount of people would believe the moon landing was faked and the world is flat, depending on how you ask the question.

Keep on dancing and whistling.  The fact remains.
30 posted on 12/04/2002 5:31:31 PM PST by gcruse
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To: Houmatt
Point?

That circular reasoning, i.e. supporting the WOD because drugs are illegal, is a logical fallacy.

And that is because they are legal, not in spite of it.

So you would support the return of alcohol prohibition?

31 posted on 12/04/2002 5:44:53 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: Houmatt
If that's the case, why are all the medical mj and decrim laws and initiatives passing? Methinks you are both wrong and a moron yourself. But that's just my opinion. You COULD be an actual idiot, for all I know.
32 posted on 12/04/2002 5:53:44 PM PST by dcwusmc
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To: Houmatt
Drugs kill. Guns kill. Do you support repealing the 2nd Amendment?

The point of eliminating the "WOD" is not to encourage drug use. Stopping the "WOD" does not automatically mean legalization, actually. But you can stop making possession a mandatory prison-time serving criminal offense, and replace it with an exhorbitant fine, should you prefer. The "WOD" has given the government an excuse to trample on 4th Amendment rights, which I (as a NON-drug user) am concerned about. They can confiscate MY property on SUSPICION of drug crimes, with no requirement of prior conviction, and no compelling statute to return it upon my innocence being proven.

And just like Prohibition led to the rise of mob activity, WOD has led to gang activity (and, as a codicil, just like NYC's cigarette ban and huge tax hike has led to terrorist funding through cig smuggling). Many legal drugs are far more deadly and potent than ones currently illegal...

33 posted on 12/04/2002 6:04:15 PM PST by austinTparty
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To: gcruse
No, no -- I was responding to the post in favor of continuing the useless WOD because "most Americans want it." That's not a very sound argument -- because everyone else wants it -- is it?
34 posted on 12/04/2002 7:00:32 PM PST by ellery
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To: ellery
Agreed. Sorry if I misread. What is most important is what is Constitutional, not the (forgive me) zeitgeist.
35 posted on 12/04/2002 7:02:31 PM PST by gcruse
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To: gcruse
Hee -- you said zeitgeist. :-)
36 posted on 12/04/2002 7:03:16 PM PST by ellery
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To: MrLeRoy
"Actually, a recent poll showed that 74% of Americans agreed that the War On Drugs has failed."

I'd be curious to know what polls say about if people favor legalization of narcotics or not.I'm not suprised a majority feel the WOD is a failure.But how many want legalized drugs in it's place?
37 posted on 12/04/2002 8:04:08 PM PST by Rocksalt
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To: cryofan3
Actually, I'm in favor of legalization. And you're quite right, legalization would deal with deaths based on impurities, and would help deal with those based on infection, etc.

However, it won't solve everything. Alcohol has been legal for decades, and it's quality is stringently controlled. Yet, people fall into a bottle and die every day. They'll fall into a syringe or a pill bottle just as easily, or more easily. Give people a ready way to avoid reality, and there'll be those who fall for it.

In fact, they don't even have to get that much benefit from it. You don't get much of a high from nicotine, yet yearly it slaughters it's 10,000's and 100,000's in the U.S. alone.

Drug use kills people. It's undeniable. Legalizing drugs will not change that, it just changes who gets killed, and how many.
38 posted on 12/04/2002 9:57:49 PM PST by RonF
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: Bryan
PING
40 posted on 12/04/2002 11:50:31 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: EBUCK
But you forgot to tell me what the hell aspirin has to do with anything.
41 posted on 12/05/2002 2:52:59 AM PST by Houmatt
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To: gcruse
The fact remains.

Ah, but what fact? Surely, you mean that polls and surveys and be manipulated to get any kind of response you desire?

In that case, I am inclined to agree with you.

42 posted on 12/05/2002 2:56:54 AM PST by Houmatt
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To: ThinkDifferent
That circular reasoning, i.e. supporting the WOD because drugs are illegal, is a logical fallacy.

The only logical fallacy is the number of deaths from illicit drug use would either stay the same or get even lower if drugs were legalized.

So you would support the return of alcohol prohibition?

Did I say that?

43 posted on 12/05/2002 3:00:30 AM PST by Houmatt
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To: dcwusmc
If that's the case, why are all the medical mj and decrim laws and initiatives passing?

Oh, really? You mean, the ones in two states?

Get your facts straight before re-posting so you will not further embarass yourself.

44 posted on 12/05/2002 3:04:17 AM PST by Houmatt
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To: austinTparty
Do you support repealing the 2nd Amendment?

*Yawn.*

The point of eliminating the "WOD" is not to encourage drug use. Stopping the "WOD" does not automatically mean legalization, actually. But you can stop making possession a mandatory prison-time serving criminal offense, and replace it with an exhorbitant fine, should you prefer. The "WOD" has given the government an excuse to trample on 4th Amendment rights, which I (as a NON-drug user) am concerned about.

Then you should harass your Congressman and Senators and get those particular laws removed, instead of throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Otherwise, if you don't like the idea of doing jail time for drug possession, the simple answer to that is to stay away from them. Problem solved.

45 posted on 12/05/2002 3:09:11 AM PST by Houmatt
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To: Houmatt
Jeez....little testy yesterday....what happened, some one slip a little "special K" into your coffee.

My point to my post is that losers who take drugs are just that....losers.

No self love, no self respect. Why have my hard earned tax money go to a gub-mint program that doesn't work?

A quicker solution would be to let the losers finish them selves off.

Let them die at their own hands.

Survival of the fittest.

If you insist on wasting my money, please waste it on something that MIGHT be doing some good, like child cancer research or something.

about the name calling thing....maybe YOU need a few anti-depressants.
46 posted on 12/05/2002 5:22:15 AM PST by taxed2death
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To: Houmatt
2) drugs kill

Hey dummy, (sorry I had to return the favor of calling me names) drugs don't kill.

Run out and buy a few kilos of coke. put them on your kitchen table. Id bet if you walked by it for the rest of your life, you wouldn't get killed.

However, if you stuck two straws up your nose and tooted 'till the cows come home, you'd be dead.

Guess what? YOU'VE JUST KILLED YOURSELF.

Simple concept, really....I'm always amazed people can't grasp something as rudementary as this.

We need to thin the herd....dumb-asses will always kill themselves. Please stop wasting my money trying to stop the inevitable.
47 posted on 12/05/2002 5:30:08 AM PST by taxed2death
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To: Houmatt
And who did the poll? When?

"In February 2001 the Pew Research Center polled people on the nation's drug war. In September and again in late November and early December 2001, Peter D. Hart Research Associates surveyed people on crime and punishment for George Soros' Open Society Institute.

"Respondents to both polls largely agree that the war on drugs has been a failure. In the Pew poll, 74 percent agreed with the statement "We are losing the drug war." Seventy percent in Hart's September poll said the war on drugs had been "more of a failure" than a success." - http://www.rollcall.com/pages/columns/bowman/00/2002/bowm0307.html

Nobody I know thinks we should just throw up our hands and legalize drugs.

The people you know are a non-randomly selected group, so what is true about them cannot be reliably extrapolated to the larger population.

And I have never been called and polled about anything.

So I seriously doubt the veracity of any poll

Which proves only your ignorance of basic statistical methods.

48 posted on 12/05/2002 5:42:35 AM PST by MrLeRoy
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To: fporretto
Are you quite sure of that figure?

Quite---see post 48.

The last I saw a survey, 88% of respondents approved of the Drug War and wanted to see it continued at least.

Have a source for that?

one doesn't argue for a policy position by using its popularity.

Nor have I---I was merely correcting Houmatt's error (who seems to have been arguing for a policy position by using its popularity).

49 posted on 12/05/2002 6:02:40 AM PST by MrLeRoy
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To: Rocksalt
I'd be curious to know what polls say about if people favor legalization of narcotics or not.

Then look into it: www.google.com.

50 posted on 12/05/2002 6:13:51 AM PST by MrLeRoy
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