French kiss-off: America galled France right from the start

U.S. News ^ | 12/16/2002 | ROBERT KUNZIG

[Pokey78]

What better symbol of enduring friendship between France and the United States than the Statue of Liberty? Yet the stately French gift was the work of a small group of pro-Americans, who enjoyed tepid support in 1880s France. "And when the statue was offered to the Americans, they were completely dumbfounded–they were annoyed," says Philippe Roger, a French intellectual historian. Both Congress and New York State balked at paying for a pedestal. Later the Americans ditched the inscription that Victor Hugo had dashed off–"The sea, great and agitated, notes the union of these two great and pacified lands"–in favor of a very different one by Emma Lazarus. "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" the statue now cries. No wonder the French thought us ungrateful.

That is one of many sorry episodes of Franco-American friendship dissolving into acrimony that Roger recounts in his sardonically titled history L'Ennemi Américain ("The American Enemy"). It is one of several new books that have triggered a surprising public debate in France this fall. Even as France was battling at the United Nations to forestall an American war on Iraq, French talk shows and editorials began asking a question that has occurred more than once to Americans, during this and earlier episodes of friction: Do the French have an anti-Americanism problem?

Evidence of one is not hard to find. Hostility to individual Americans is rare, and fascination with many things American is widespread–and yet so too is a reflexive wariness and disdain for the United States as a whole. In a poll in Le Monde on the anniversary of 9/11, "liberty" ranked eighth among concepts the French huddled masses associate with the United States, behind "power," "violence," "inequality," and "imperialism."

Some observers consider this a natural response to American hegemony. "The higher the monkey climbs, the more you see its rear," says Thierry de Montbrial, director of the French Institute for International Relations in Paris. But the new books suggest there is more to it than that. In his bestseller, L'Obsession Anti-Américaine ("The Anti-American Obsession"), conservative journalist Jean-François Revel documents many recent examples of what he calls the "irrational repulsion" displayed by French critics of the United States. "All the maladies, real or imagined, that afflict humanity are attributed to the United States," Revel writes, from "AIDS in Africa to the supposed warming of the atmosphere." No wonder Americans feel inclined to go it alone in the world, he argues, when they are subjected to such bad-faith criticism from their friends.

Moreover, Roger's book shows that French anti-Americanism predates current political flaps by more than two centuries. In the 18th century, the great French naturalist Comte de Buffon argued that the American climate was dank and unwholesome, such that New World animals and men were inevitably punier than their Old World counterparts. Thomas Jefferson tried to refute this theory by sending Buffon a moose. Unfortunately, the old man died before he could squeeze moose into his belief system.

Terrifying Yankee. Even the honeymoon after Lafayette came to the aid of the American Revolution was short. Partly because Americans were squeamish about the Reign of Terror, partly because we remained Englishmen at heart, we never returned Lafayette's favor when the French Revolution was besieged by monarchies on all sides. But according to Roger, it was only during the Spanish-American War of 1898 that French anti-Americanism crystallized. When Americans proved ready to kick the Spanish out of Cuba and the Philippines on the thinnest of pretexts ("Remember the Maine!"), the French began seriously worrying about our own imperialist bent. As Roger writes, "the ridiculous Yankee was succeeded by the terrifying Yankee."

If that image has subsequently withstood what Americans would consider convincing evidence of our goodwill–two world war rescues, followed by the Marshall Plan–it's in part because it fulfills a need among the French intellectual elite. Spanning the political spectrum from left to right, anti-Americanism is the great unifier here, "the only 'French passion,' " Roger writes, "that calms the other passions, softens antagonisms, and reconciles the most bitter adversaries."

There isn't much passion on the other side. Though Americans have always admired the savoir-vivre of the French,we don't always take them seriously–to the point of sometimes dismissing as irrelevant a country with the sixth-largest economy in the world. Americans "consider us decadent," says de Montbrial. France, to many, is the country where people are always either on strike or on vacation. "People think in stereotypes," says de Montbrial. "There is enormous ignorance." On both sides of the Atlantic.

[HardStarboard]

aaah - the french don't like us.....too bad!

[battlegearboat]

Calling Jerry Lewis...

[Drango]

Though Americans have always admired the savoir-vivre of the French,

Yeah right...

Q. Why did the French ban fireworks at Euro-Disney?
A. 'Cause everytime they went off, the French visitors would try to surrender.

[battlegearboat]

Hooked on Frogics:

Sean's A Lee's A

[dogbyte12]

Cheese Eating surrender monkey bump

[McGavin999]

Awwww gee, what a surprise, the French don't like us. Well you know what, we don't care because WE don't respect the French so their opinion doesn't matter.

[Blue Screen of Death]

We could take that statue, remove the torch and rearrange the fingers on the hand....

[dighton]

In the 18th century, the great French naturalist Comte de Buffon argued that the American climate was dank and unwholesome, such that New World animals and men were inevitably punier than their Old World counterparts. Thomas Jefferson tried to refute this theory by sending Buffon a moose. Unfortunately, the old man died before he could squeeze moose into his belief system.

[Cacique]

I frankly don't care what the ungratefull sorry assed surrender monkeys from accross the sea think of us. They can all go to hell as far as I am concerned. They live in the past of imagined glories they never had and are out to screw everyone in sight.

For Sale: French Army rifle, never used, dropped only once.

[jwh_Denver]

"French intellectual elite"

"Here we go round da Mawberry bush, da Mallberry bush, da Mawlberry bush."

[onedoug]

The "French malady" - as Shakespeare somwhere called syphillus - wherein its carriers haugtilly look down there noses...which must certainly be inured of each other's stench...at all who stink any less.

"Tous jour l'mour, we blow." --Bob Hope, Road To Zanzibar

[OldCorps]

don't you mean french intellectual efette?

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

How many of you have actually been to France? I personally enjoyed the short time I was able to spend there.

[BLASTER 14]

OK, let's see...

The French haven't won a war since Napoleon's time.

The US and and the UK have twice pulled France out of Germany's grasp. (Next time let's just say to hell with it--the Germans could do a whole lot more with France than the French can, based on all their war-losing, strikes, etc.

Hey, guys face it: France is irrelevant in today's world despite all your pompous acting as if you were a GREAT NATION.

Quit your whining, drink your wine and go back to sleep.Leave the running of the world to the grownups.

[Rockpile]

Coincidentally, I was listening to a fellow at the range this morning who had been to France fairly recently. He said he quite enjoyed the trip EXCEPT for Paris. Evidently the folks in the small towns and smaller cities were pretty nice but the Parisians were basically obnoxious assholes.

[FITZ]

I'll bet they even hate that we're celebrating "cinco de mayo" in this country now which is when they were defeated by the Mexican army.

[Drango]

The French haven't won a war since Napoleon's time.

How soon you forget!

The French valiantly took on the unarmed Greenpeace ship "Rainbow Warrior". After a pitched battle against some sardines and a few barnacles, sunk it to the bottom of the sea, they did. They only killed one civilian. Ranks as France's crowning war achievement.

[ozzymandus]

I agree with Groundskeeper Willie.

[jwh_Denver]

*don't you mean french intellectual efette

Had to look that word up. It is spelled "effete" but the definition is quite fitting. From Merriam dictionary:

1 : no longer fertile
2 a : having lost character, vitality, or strength
3 : EFFEMINATE

LOL! Effete? That's the word!

[RippleFire]

Bump

[The Iguana]

But according to Roger, it was only during the Spanish-American War of 1898 that French anti-Americanism crystallized. When Americans proved ready to kick the Spanish out of Cuba and the Philippines on the thinnest of pretexts ("Remember the Maine!"), the French began seriously worrying about our own imperialist bent. As Roger writes, "the ridiculous Yankee was succeeded by the terrifying Yankee."

Funny when you consider that at the time the French themselves owned nearly half of Africa and much of Southeast Asia. (And in some respects, they still run much of West Africa.)

France has forged a record of imperialism that we're still racing to catch up with.

Meanwhile, they've gracious surrendered most of their possessions in order to be Germany's (and the Arab World's) handmaidens.

[WarEagle]

France, to many, is the country where people are always either on strike or on vacation.

You got that right, pal. Also a country which has a serious soap and deodorant shortage.

I FART IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION.

[river rat]

"Hostility to individual Americans is rare...

Bull Squat!
The emotion of hostility is there, but they lack the courage to do anything in a physical manner..

I was constantly amazed by the rudeness and poor service, especially in Paris.. But throw a few sharp verbal spears in their direction over poor service or attitude - and threaten to leave for a better place to spend your money, and they suddenly discover their manners...

France is one place in this world, that my wife could NEVER convince me to re-visit... Period...

Semper Fi

[Morrigan]

What planet did you just step off, buddy? Let me clue you in to a few things:

Americans don't care about what "stock" they came from hundreds of years ago. We are not Irish-Americans, English-Americans, German-Americans, etc. We are Americans first and foremost. America is where we "come" from. To say we come from some other place is just idiotic.

Yes, Americans are arrogant. The world would be a festering toilet if it weren't for us. And everyone knows it. Other nations hate us because they want to BE us--but they don't have the balls.

BTW, if you plan on coming here to make snide comments, I'd recommend speaking passable English first. 'Kay?

[McGavin999]

Oh please! Only a fool would buy into that garbage about American's not knowing where europe is. Some of us can actually READ too!

The French are arrogant, decrying American culture, while their own culture is being submerged in a flood of Islamic refugees. There are parts of Paris where even the police won't go. Do you think the French will do anything about it? LOL, they won't even notice until the Fashion houses start putting burquas on their models. LOL, we can all see it now "Latest Paris fashion, the "naughty" burqua includes years of silk gracefully draped across the body, with a daring mesh peek hole for the bold woman".

[McGavin999]

oops, that's YARDS not years.

[Jimmyclyde]

History of French "Warfare"
Gaul vs. Julius Caesar - Gaul defeated by Rome circa 49 B.C. (Rome defeated the early French swine - the Frenchies had to Hail Julius Caesar as their new leader)

Gaul vs. Franks - Gaul defeated by Franks (the 'original' French, replaced by the Franks *sigh*)

Franks vs. Huns - Huns sack Paris circa 450 A.D. (Huns finally defeated here - Attila's ONLY defeat. Notice it was done by a German-Roman coalition, NOT the Franks)

Franks vs. Themselves - Clovis unites Franks into one kingdom around 511 A.D. He dies and the 'kingdom' falls apart at the seams. Ever hear of naming a successor or how bout a will?

Franks vs. Muslims - Charles Martel defeats a SMALL Muslim raiding party at the Battle of Tours in 732 A.D. Muslims lost interest so Charles claimed a 'great victory'. Notice they didn't follow up and kick the Muslims out of Spain though.....

Franks vs. Franks - Charlemagne crowned 'Emperor of the Romans', Christmas 800 A.D. Again this 'empire' fell apart by 840 A.D. - sheesh. Charlemagne could read but couldn't write - now what sense does that make?

Franks vs. Vikings - From 841 to 911 A.D. the Viking Warrior-Badasses mopped the Frankish countryside with Frank ass. France surrenders Normandy to Vikings 911 A.D. (Stupid mid-evil France was easily bullied by real warriors)

Franks vs. Black Death - 1347 - 1350 A.D. Black Death kills Frenchies good. This plague was said to originate in Mongolia, from the vermin. BUT, we all know it HAD to have came from the filthy French swine.

France vs. England - 100 Years War 1337 - 1453 A.D. Battle of Crecy - 1337 A.D. (English hand the French their own asses in the start of the 100 Years War with the timely use of the longbow. French knights are mowed down like the cannon fodder they were.) Battle of Poitiers, 1356 A.D. - More of the same. Battle of Agincourt, 1415 A.D. - Henry V gets some French butt-whoopin' action. Unfortunately, a heretic freak named Joan of Arc came along and united all the French Frogs and they managed to repel the English. And we all know where that got her....TOASTY.

France vs. World Culture - Renaissance starts in Italy circa 1200's, NOT IN FRANCE.

France vs. World Exploration/Economics - Commercial Revolution starts - major players are England, Spain, and Portugal. Notice who ISN'T on that list?

France vs. France - 1572 A.D. St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre by Queen Catherine. She killed thousands of protestants and Jews. Hrm...that sounds really familiar - the FINAL SOLUTION ring any bells? Evidently these bastards were no better than Nazi Germany and yet they are proud of their heritage?

France vs. Europe - War of Spanish Succession 1648 A.D. (France tries to fight rest of Europe over Spain and looses to Frederick William of Germany)

France vs. Europe - 7 Years War or French Indian War 1756 A.D. (France gets beat up on 2 different continents by England and Germany plus the early future Americans - a guy named George Washington ring any bells?)

France vs. France - French Revolution 1789 - 1799A.D. (France kicks their own asses) Dr. Guillotine makes a handy invention that allows the Frenchies to chop off their own heads with amazing speed - thanks Jacobin Republicans!

France vs. Europe - Waterloo 1815 A.D. (Wellington delivers knockout to Napoleon - 2nd time. This comes AFTER the Russian Winter destroyed the largest army in the World and the U.S. conned old Nappy in the Louisiana Purchase - WHAT A BARGAIN!)

France vs. France - French Revolution (again) 1848 A.D. (France is still kicking their own asses on a smaller scale)

France vs. Mexico - late 1860s - early 1870s A.D. - France conquers Mexico. Wow! Amazing. What an accomplishment. Funny though, when the U.S. decided to enforce the Monroe Doctrine and in so many words told France to get the HELL out of our side of the world, they tucked tail and ran.

France vs. Prussia - Franco-Prussian War 1870 A.D. (William I of Germany kicks the teeth out of Napoleon III - good old Willy proclaims himself emperor of Germany at the Palace of Versailles - can you say bitchslap?) This all started because France opposed the unification of Germany - notice this starts a nasty chain of events that doesn't end till 1945......seems to me we can almost chalk up WWI and II on the dumbass French.

France vs. Germany - WWI 1914-1918 A.D. (Germany beats the hell out of France - without the aid of USA, France would be speaking German. France only won because of Uncle Sam jumped in - then those dumbass sore-winners in France impose an incredibly harsh Treaty of Versailles to 'punish' the Germans. Notice the resulting conditions of this allowed the rise of an unknown Austrian named HITLER.

France vs. Germany - Rise of Hitler 1933-1939 A.D. (Germany bullies France into letting them take more territory - the wussies wouldn't even fight over it - they adopted a policy of 'appeasement' - can you say SCARED?)

France vs. Germany Round II - WWII June 22, 1940 A.D. (France surrenders to Hitler at Compiegne after putting up a fight that made Polish Army look good. Notice Vichy France who quickly jumped ship to be friends with the Germans. And once again without the help of good old Uncle Sam the Atlantic Wall would never have been penetrated - France would either be a part of the 3rd Reich or a satellite country of Communist Russia under Uncle Joe Stalin)

France vs. Vietcong - Vietnam 1954 A.D. (French Army at Dien Bien Phu surrender to Ho Chi Minh) Nuff Said.

MORAL: Even before Jesus walked the face of the Earth, the French have been getting their asses kicked. The smelly, cheese eating, fu-fu dressing French can't fight worth a damn. You TOO can conquer France!

[DainBramage]

"The higher the monkey climbs, the more you see its rear," says Thierry de Montbrial

And when you see it all, climb on up and kiss it.

[freedumb2003]

BTW, explain your fellow citizens that the Rolling Stones and the Beatles are not americans

No, but Rock and Roll is, as is/are all modern forms of music. Nothing of substance has been invented in Europe for hundreds of years.

[Caesar Soze]

If you did not get the underlying ideas, Simply stated, 21th century will see the rise of at least 2 major powers EU and China and probably stronger than the USA.

I can't help but question the "rise" of the EU. Economically, perhaps. But some paradigms will have to shift before Europe attains military (and thus diplomatic) parity with the US.

I outrightly doubt the "rise" of China. If you have access to the journal Foreign Affairs, read the article by Minxin Pei in the Sept/Oct 2002 issue. (Summary.)

[dorben]

The EU will be a super power in the 21st Century ? Mr. B surely you jest . In all honesty give me an economic indicator that shows a trend toward this happening .

[katana]

Assuming this was the last of your comments, let's go for a summary response.

The United States is by history, language, ethos, and ancestry of the greater part of our population an offspring of the British Isles and Germany. As such, we have quite rightly inherited a disdain for most things French. In other words, and we know this especially galls a race which has had several centuries to refine their inferiority complex, we honestly could not care less what the French think.

Irrelevancy must be a bitter pill.

[Destructor]

While we're on the subject of being ingrateful America saved the France's butt in TWO World Wars! We paid for that statue a million times over with the blood of our countrymen. Look how the French treat us now.

[The Iguana]

I thought we were talking about France, not Arabs.

[myself6]

The "EU" will never rise as a super-power until it sheds its socialist systems. You are daydreaming.

China will not be a superpower. We will not allow it. China and its people are of a culture that does not respect human life. To allow them to go much further is suicide for the human race. The US and China will eventually go to war and the US will completely flatten China.

The US gave its sons to protect your sorry ass and give you back your nation. You have repaid this debt with bile and venom ever since. When the war between the US and China becomes reality, it is my fondest desire that France allies with China. Hell, I would love to see all of socialist Europe tie themselves to China, but France is the one that will be sweet. I would love to be there to spit in the face of the very last Frenchman as he lies on the ground breathing his very last breath.

How’s that for bile and venom froggy? Now go away you irrelevant creature.