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Muhammad/Malvo sighted on September 19 2002, 4:30am, Petersburg Virginia
The Progress Index ^ | 10.30.2002 | JENNIFER FRANCIS

Posted on 12/11/2002 2:38:02 AM PST by Future Useless Eater

Here is the elusive sighting of M & M on the morning of September 19th. ALL the best-known search engines had lost it, but thanks to AlltheWeb.com and Aristeides I found it again. I will add it to the Muhammad/Malvo Timelines sometime soon.


Sniper suspects slept here: Before the attacks in Maryland and Virginia began, Muhammad and Malvo slept in the parking lot of the Ramada Inn in Petersburg
By:JENNIFER FRANCIS , Staff Writer 10/30/2002

PETERSBURG VA - Just two days before sniper suspects John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo allegedly shot and killed a clerk outside an Alabama liquor store, two Petersburg police officers found them sleeping in a local motel parking lot off Interstate 95.

According to a report taken around 4:30 the morning of Sept. 19, the Petersburg Bureau of Police received a complaint call from security guards at the Ramada Inn located at the East Washington Street/I-95 interchange regarding two men sleeping in a car in the hotel parking lot.

This year, all the rooms at the Ramada are being rented out to Virginia State University as dormitory space for some of the school's students and is monitored by VSU police officers and security.

"The security guard said that a blue vehicle with New Jersey tags was on the Washington Street side of the building and that two black males were possibly asleep inside," said Lt. John Corrigan of the Petersburg Bureau of Police. "The car was a 1990 Chevrolet Caprice."

The same car, he said, in which Muhammad and Malvo were sleeping when they were arrested at a Maryland rest stop last week as the main suspects in 13 sniper shootings following a three-week reign of terror in Maryland, Washington D.C. and Northern Virginia.

According to the report, when the officers pulled up along the side of the car, one noted that the back seat was full of clothing and that one of the men didn't appear to be older than 16 or 17. The older of the men told officers that his name was John Allen Muhammad, Corrigan said, and that his date of birth was Dec. 31, 1960.

Muhammad told the officers that the young man traveling with him, now believed to be Malvo, was his nephew. Police did not take down the name of the younger passenger.

"Mr. Muhammad said that he had traveled to Louisiana to visit family and that he had stopped in Petersburg because he was tired and needed to rest," Corrigan said. "The two were very cooperative and showed no signs of suspicious activity."

The officers ran the man's information and the car through local, state and national criminal databases but the check turned up nothing. Muhammad was told that he was trespassing at the hotel and that he had to leave.

Corrigan said the officers did not think about the encounter again until after Muhammad was arrested in connection with the sniper shootings.

"(Petersburg police) called the hotline immediately and then the FBI called (Petersburg PD) and asked for a copy of the written report," Corrigan said. "They were apparently here weeks before the sniper attacks began."

Lawrence Barry, Chief Division Counsel with the Richmond Field Office of the FBI, declined to comment on the Petersburg connection to the suspects, citing the ongoing investigation.

But a local police officer said on the condition of anonymity that Muhammad and Malvo's presence in Petersburg could help to piece together a time line of events that tie together shooting deaths across the East Coast.

"This could help to tell them if and when they scoped out the area and if they had planned an escape route along (Interstate) 85," the police source said.

The men's presence in Petersburg in September seems to make sense, the officer said, if the men were traveling from New Jersey to somewhere down south.

The shooting death of a clerk at a Montgomery, Ala. liquor store took place two days after officers encountered Muhammad and Malvo in Petersburg. The first of the sniper shootings in Maryland took place Oct. 2, just two weeks later. That spree would kill 10 and critically injure three.



September 10 2002 - Petersburg VA - So the unanswered questions still include:
WHY would the pair travel JUST TWO HOURS SOUTH of DC on the evening of Sept 18th to spend the night in Petersburg VA? They HAD to have some urgent 'business' near there late Sept 18, or early Sept 19.
Some possible Islamic-attractions come to mind:



(Excerpt) Read more at zwire.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; US: Alabama; US: Arizona; US: District of Columbia; US: Georgia; US: Louisiana; US: Maryland; US: Mississippi; US: New Jersey; US: Virginia; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: alfuqra; beltway; beltwaysniper; camden; islam; jamaatalfuqua; johnmuhammad; kasi; leeboydmalvo; malvo; miraimalkasi; muhammad; nationofislam; noi; redhousevirginia; sniper

1 posted on 12/11/2002 2:38:03 AM PST by Future Useless Eater
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To: FL_engineer

2 posted on 12/11/2002 2:40:59 AM PST by Future Useless Eater
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To: FL_engineer

3 posted on 12/11/2002 2:44:27 AM PST by Future Useless Eater
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To: TexKat; Grampa Dave; Sacajaweau; browardchad; Shermy; ~Kim4VRWC's~; Travis McGee; Fred Mertz; ...
ping y'all
4 posted on 12/11/2002 2:46:24 AM PST by Future Useless Eater
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To: FL_engineer
dang, I hate typo's! Post #1 should say SEPTEMBER 20 in red...
September 20 2002 - Petersburg VA - So the unanswered questions still include:
WHY would the pair travel JUST TWO HOURS SOUTH of DC on the evening of Sept 18th to spend the night in Petersburg VA? They HAD to have some urgent 'business' near there late Sept 18, or early Sept 19.
Some possible Islamic-attractions come to mind:



5 posted on 12/11/2002 2:50:51 AM PST by Future Useless Eater
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To: FL_engineer
ONE MORE TRY... SEPTEMBER 19 ... I didnt get enough sleep!

September 19 2002 - Petersburg VA -
6 posted on 12/11/2002 2:54:31 AM PST by Future Useless Eater
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To: FL_engineer
I live close to Petersburg, and work there in the criminal justice system.

There are actually three mosques in Petersburg. Also, the hotel is located right smack on the I-95/I-85 junction, so it offers easy convenient access to the major interstate system. Route 460 is also easily accessible, making it a easy slide to the quickest northern route to Campbell County, where the little muslim playground started by Jamaat Al Fuqua ( called Red House, Va) is located.

Just a few more facts.



7 posted on 12/11/2002 5:22:33 AM PST by judicial meanz
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To: FL_engineer
Thanks!

I hope that you are saving these various/hard to find reports on your hard disk or on another server in their enterity to prevent them from disappearing as time goes on.

Another gap that has not been researched is where did JM live while he was in the Oregon Nation Guard unit at Portland, Oregon.

Did JM live in the state of Washington or in the Portland area. What mosques did he go to? Who were his contacts.

Since PC Moose was the Political Correctness Police Chief at that time, did these two have any encounters. Moose was also an Air National Guard Member at that time.
8 posted on 12/11/2002 6:46:36 AM PST by Grampa Dave
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To: FL_engineer
Wow. Thanks for the ping. It's like peeling the layers of an onion....
9 posted on 12/11/2002 6:56:45 AM PST by iceskater
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To: FL_engineer
Thanks for the heads up!
10 posted on 12/11/2002 7:57:42 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: FL_engineer
Sniper task force has new nerve center in Centreville
Dec 11, 2002

CENTREVILLE, Va. (AP) _ Evidence from 13 shootings believed to have been the work of the Washington-area sniper suspects has been moved to a new task force headquarters about halfway between the courts where the suspects face trials.

Virginia authorities have access to all the physical evidence gathered from the various crime scenes, including the car the suspects were sleeping in when they were captured, the rifle prosecutors believe was used in the killings and letters written by the snipers.

"It's a process of accumulating what evidence you're going to need," said Robert F. Horan Jr., the chief prosecutor in Fairfax County, where 17-year-old John Lee Malvo is charged with two counts of capital murder.

"There's an awful lot of evidence out there that may be of use in some cases and not in other cases. It's a process of sorting it out," Horan said.

The prosecution task force, now down to a few dozen local, state and federal agents, has been investigating 21 shootings believed to be part of a series of attacks that stretched from the Pacific Northwest to the Deep South and the Washington, D.C. area.

Malvo and John Allen Muhammad are charged in 13 shootings _ 10 of them fatal _ in the Washington-area, and are suspected in eight other shootings across the country.

They were arrested at a Maryland highway rest stop Oct. 24 as they slept in the dark blue Chevrolet Caprice they are suspected of using in many of the shootings.

Since the arrests, task force members have been gathering in Centreville to go over sensitive information before dispersing to chase any promising leads, said James A. Willett and Richard A. Conway, assistant prosecutors in Prince William County.

Investigators from Virginia, Maryland and the District and the FBI and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms have shared information and evidence over the past two weeks in individual meetings about each of the sniper shootings in the Washington area and attacks in Montgomery, Ala., and Atlanta that have been linked to the suspects.

"We're reviewing all the evidence in close coordination with the prosecutors," said Prince William Police Chief Charlie T. Deane. "This is a murder case that is a local murder case, and we're preparing it as such, keeping in mind the relationship this case has to all the other cases."

Defense attorneys also are preparing to go to extraordinary lengths in the cases.

Todd D. Petit, Malvo's court-appointed guardian, said he is tracking down information about Malvo's background for a report to be presented to a judge before a Jan. 14 preliminary hearing in Fairfax County Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court. The judge will determine whether Malvo will be tried as an adult and face the death penalty.

Petit said he has learned some details from Malvo's mother, Una James, who is in Seattle awaiting deportation to Jamaica.

"She is very concerned about her son," Petit said. "She has been helpful in leading me to information that I think is very important, and people will need to know about her son."

Petit said James has not been able to speak to Malvo. Last month, federal immigration officials ordered her deported.

Muhammad is scheduled to appear Thursday in Prince William County Circuit Court, where a trial date will be set and arguments heard about whether television cameras will be allowed in the courtroom. A number of television outlets have asked the court to allow a broadcast of the trial, arguing that the public has a right to see it.

One of Muhammad's attorneys, Peter D. Greenspun, opposes video coverage. He argues that such coverage would be disruptive and could jeopardize the fairness of Muhammad's trial. Muhammad also is charged with two counts of capital murder.

"Can anyone maintain that the televising of the O.J. Simpson case did not impact the prosecution, defense witnesses and court?" Greenspun wrote in a response to a motion.

Prince William Commonwealth's Attorney Paul B. Ebert also opposes TV cameras.
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/vaapwire/MGBZDIBTK9D.html
11 posted on 12/11/2002 8:43:17 AM PST by Ligeia
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To: Grampa Dave; maica
Since PC Moose was the Political Correctness Police Chief at that time, did these two have any encounters. Moose was also an Air National Guard Member at that time.

This is an interesting question.

12 posted on 12/11/2002 11:31:05 AM PST by Freee-dame
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To: All
There are so many questions regarding the activities of Muhammed and Malvo. I'm still pondering the size of the trunk on the caddie in Wash. State. Muhammed had his own auto shop. He KNEW the size of the trunk of the caddie.

But his work was going to take him to the east coast and he connected there instead for the vehicle. This wasn't just a change in the purchase of a vehicle, it was a CHANGE IN PLANS and an effort to hide his west coast location of the months previous. Was his original connection in Joisey with Osbourne or someone else? I think someone else (nearby).

13 posted on 12/11/2002 4:12:25 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: FL_engineer
Moose reflects on leading the sniper investigation

FOSTER KLUG
Associated Press Writer Dec 12, 2002

BALTIMORE (AP) _ When Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose realized TV cameras mounted on poles around his headquarters during the sniper investigation were taping officers' notes, he closed the blinds.

He described the moment Thursday as part of the "roller-coaster" task of leading 2,000 investigators as they chased the Washington-area sniper suspects while being the focus of worldwide media attention.

"I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy," Moose told an audience at an emergency preparedness and prevention conference organized by the Environmental Protection Agency. "If you don't stop the killing, people want to say you're a failure. But we were doing a lot of things right."

Moose gave a candid, behind-the-scenes rundown of the events that captivated the country for three weeks in October. He spoke of the fear that gripped the region, and the country, as the random killings continued.

"The pictures, they almost want to make you cry _ people ducking behind their wheel well as they pump gas," Moose said. "All of this pressure's building, all of this fear."

John Allen Muhammad, 41, and John Lee Malvo, 17, are charged with shooting killing 10 people and wounding three during the three-week spree. They are also suspected in eight other shootings across the country.

As the shooting spree dragged on, agents from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the FBI and police from around the country flooded Montgomery County. Moose said investigators used the county police building's laundry room as an office and stored overflowing files in hallways.

Moose said he tried to make sure that all the investigators, many of whom worked successive 18-hour days, were well fed. He also arranged for every worker to have a flu shot.

"You've got to keep them working," Moose said. "I'll feed them; I'll give them flu shots; I'll shine their shoes for them if it helps them work."

After 13-year-old Iran Brown was wounded outside his middle school in Bowie, Moose said investigators had to balance solving the sniper shootings with responding to daily police calls and protecting schools.

He said investigators sifted through 70,000 tips phoned in to the task force.

"People are giving up their brother, their mother, anyone _ and that's before we raised the reward money," Moose said. "But you have to investigate, because you never know when you might have the one clue you need."

And he spoke of the pressure of having the whole world watching as investigators did their job.

"It makes you sit down in your chair when you realize that the president of the United States is receiving daily briefings on your investigation," Moose said. "It changes things."
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/vaapwire/MGBK5DC1N9D.html

==
I read the _Grinch Who Stole Christmas_ again today and was reminded of the sniper days. We really did, as did the people in Who-ville, carry on even if Chief Moose was given pictures of people crouching at the gas pump. We even sort of held hands in a circle. It was a frightening and bizarre time. Most of us don't have the training a G.I. does who learns how to deal with the possibility each step across a rice patty or a patch of sand may be his last. I'm looking forward to Chief Moose's book when it's finished.
14 posted on 12/12/2002 5:55:09 PM PST by Ligeia
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To: FL_engineer
One more sniper-related story in the news today:


Judge bars TV cameras in sniper suspect's trial

MATTHEW BARAKAT
Associated Press Writer Dec 12, 2002

MANASSAS, Va. (AP) _ A judge on Thursday denied a request from broadcasters to televise the trial of sniper suspect John Allen Muhammad, saying such coverage could compromise Muhammad's right to a fair trial.

Prince William County Circuit Judge Leroy F. Millette Jr. also set an Oct. 14 trial date. He blocked off eight weeks for the trial, which prosecutors estimated would last at least a month.

Muhammad, 41, and John Lee Malvo, 17, are accused in 13 shootings _ 10 of them fatal _ in Virginia, Maryland and Washington, D.C., over three weeks ending in late October, and they are suspected in eight other shootings across the country. Both are charged with capital murder. Muhammad is charged in Prince William County with killing Dean Harold Meyers, a Gaithersburg, Md., man who was shot while refueling his car on Oct. 9.

Malvo's court-appointed guardian is preparing for a Jan. 14 preliminary hearing at which a judge is expected to determine whether Malvo will be tried as an adult and face the death penalty in the Oct. 14 shooting of FBI analyst Linda Franklin in Fairfax County.

Both prosecutors and defense attorneys had opposed the broadcasters' motion for TV cameras. Commonwealth's Attorney Paul Ebert said the coverage would detract from courtroom decorum. He has said his experience with the Lorena Bobbitt penis-slashing trial, which was televised, convinced him that TV cameras are problematic.

"The court well knows that at one point in time I had no objection to live coverage, but I've changed my mind based on personal experience," he said. "Witnesses, for lack of a better word, tend to ham it up."

Barbara Van Gelder, representing the Radio-Television News Directors Association, disputed the comparison between this case and the Bobbitt case. "This is not a celebrity matter, this is not a salacious matter," she said.

Millette sided with prosecutors and defense attorneys. He will allow a still camera on a day-to-day basis. Defense attorneys Peter Greenspun and Jonathan Shapiro had objected to that while Ebert did not.

Greenspun also said during the hearing that he wants to have the trial in Prince William County and he hopes not to seek a change of venue.

Virginia's speedy trial rules would have required a trial date of April 7 or earlienspun last month asked the court to delay setting a trial date so he could have more time to prepare.

Greenspun and Shapiro had argued in court papers that TV cameras could lead to saturation media coverage that would taint the jury pool and deny Muhammad the right to a fair trial.

"Although an extensive, legitimate public interest exists in this case and it is understandable that the public might want to watch this trial, the court cannot ignore the constitutional rights of the accused," the attorneys wrote.

The RTNDA said Virginia law put the burden on Ebert and Greenspun to show good cause for banning the cameras.

"The right of a public trial belongs not only to the accused, but to the public as well," Van Gelder wrote in the motion seeking courtroom camera access.
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/vaapwire/MGBFAUWUM9D.html
15 posted on 12/12/2002 6:00:13 PM PST by Ligeia
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To: FL_engineer
Thanks for the ping. Great stuff.

Got thinking about "like a duck in a noose". How about "cotton duck"...a material used for bags. Did they find the "duffel bag" in the car?? They had left it behind before!

Was it a message to tell someone to get rid of it? I keep picturing my brother's old marine duffel bag. I remember a rope going through the metal holes at the top and drawing it tight like a noose.

Just a little free thinking!

16 posted on 12/12/2002 10:26:32 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: FL_engineer
Did a little more searching. Apparently, the cops discovered a duffel bag linked to the snipers at the scene of the Tuesday, Oct. 22nd, killing of the bus driver which occurred at 5:56 AM. Late Wednesday night (Oct 23rd) Moose read the "Caught like a duck in a noose" quote. I'm now thinking this wasn't a written message but a verbal message when they realized that the cops had the bag and they had enough to identify at least Muhammed.

When they realized they left the bag behind, why didn't they take off for Louisiana or Canada?? Were they sticking around to see someone??

We're still not sure if this was the same duffel bag that Muhammed usually lugged around. Regardless, they wanted someone to know they had been identified by the bag they left behind.

And now the FBI is searching an area near Fredricksburg??

17 posted on 12/12/2002 11:28:36 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: iceskater
I just want to know where they were when the Short family was killed in August....same corridor between DC and Alabama...22 gun used...
18 posted on 12/12/2002 11:32:23 PM PST by cherry
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To: cherry
I hope that their whereabouts can be determined. It sure would be interesting.

Did you hear that the family of the Shorts had an auction this week to sell their house and belongings to pay off debt and taxes? I can't imagine having to do something like that when so many questions are still unanswered. I just hope the police did a thorough job in collecting evidence before releasing the house to be sold at auction.
19 posted on 12/13/2002 7:04:28 AM PST by iceskater
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To: Sacajaweau
cops discovered a duffel bag linked to the snipers at the scene of the Tuesday, Oct. 22nd

I never heard about a duffel bag found on the 22nd. Maybe they left it to look like a bomb. Do you have a cite? I can't find that story.

20 posted on 12/14/2002 11:28:24 AM PST by Future Useless Eater
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To: Sacajaweau; Marine Inspector; dennisw; Travis McGee; Libertina; Ligeia; Freee-dame; maica; ...
...still pondering the size of the trunk on the caddieCONTINENTAL in Wash. State...
...Was his original connection in Joisey with Osbourne or someone else? I think someone else...

Yes, the white Lincoln Continental that Muhammad wanted to buy in Tacoma... No one ever said, by the way, that $2500 was too steep for that car. Salesmen just 'assumed' that was the reason because after 3 visits in 3 days, the pair stopped coming by. Then they almost immediatly surfaced again in Nu Joisey.

Muhammad came into $3000 using his gun on September 5th... more than enough to pay the 'real price' of a souped up car with a BIG ENGINE and BIG TRUNK days later. I've seen a few pictures of the Caprice too. It's not in bad shape as some reports would claim.

I'd guess their accomplices in NJ were one or more of ( Neil Osbourne, Walford(Wally) Osbourne, or Peter Gianquinto). I'd bet Walford is the smarter of the two Osbourne brothers, since he knew not to personally get tied in with the sniper pair. They probably had an accomplice in the Camden MVS office as well.

Peter Gianquinto is an interesting suspect too because he was a close associate in crime with Muhammad in Antigua. Gianquinto soured his relationship with his landlord by putting up five 'foreign students' in his apartment in Joisey, and also moving out suddenly, right after M & M were arrested, trashing the place. Gianquinto had multiple ID's and was arrested with welfare papers he could only have obtained fraudulently from NY. He was probably scamming multiple state's welfare rolls.

The OWNER of the All Nations cuisine in Camden swears that Muhammad and Malvo were there 3 or 4 times in one week in AUGUST, and they were not there in September. That would put them in Jersey both BEFORE AND AFTER the Tacoma car-shopping event. I think they had accomplics on both coasts helping them find the 'perfect sniper car'.

21 posted on 12/14/2002 12:51:12 PM PST by Future Useless Eater
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To: FL_engineer
I was screaming at my TV last night when Stone Phillips was interviewing one of M&Ms buddies in Tacoma. "What ever could have been the motive for John MOHAMMED to go on a killing spree? Hmm, it's just a mystery I guess."

Not one hint of his fanatical Islam, his praise of the 9-11 attackers etc.

22 posted on 12/14/2002 1:00:48 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: FL_engineer
First, thanks for all your info. It's just great.

This is from a Washington Times Article dated Oct. 25, 2002 entitled "Thank God, it's over"

"A duffel bag left at the site of Friday's shooting of bus driver Conrad Johnson in Aspen Hill has been tentatively identified as belonging to the suspects".

23 posted on 12/14/2002 8:39:03 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Grampa Dave
Grampa Dave, I feel you are being too hard on P.C.Moose, Ph.D.

His outstanding work on the sniper case only delayed solving the case by a week or two. As you are aware, this is well within AAA police performance parameters.(AAAPPP)

I feel certain that you will join me, and thousands of other concerned citizens in recommending that P.C. Moose, Ph.D. be assigned to a sensitive overseas training post in either Haiti or Liberia. I feel these lands would have a true appreciation for his unique talents as a sensitive and ecologically involved, politically correct sort of Peace Officer.

P.C. Moose Ph.D. is ideally suited for police work which would not actually involve apprehending those, who because of religious intolerance, racism and early deprivation, are alleged to have comitted acts which an unjust society might term "crimes."

24 posted on 12/14/2002 9:15:29 PM PST by Kenny Bunk
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To: Ligeia
bump
25 posted on 12/14/2002 9:18:38 PM PST by timestax
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To: timestax
bump
26 posted on 12/14/2002 9:55:05 PM PST by timestax
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