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Gun-rights confusion
Orange County Registrar Dot COM ^ | 12-20-2002 | Editorial Staff

Posted on 12/28/2002 3:29:07 PM PST by vannrox

Edited on 04/14/2004 10:05:41 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Conditions are now ripe for the U.S. Supreme Court, which has not dealt with gun control issues since 1939 (and then rather cryptically), to resolve whether the Second Amendment confers an individual right to bear arms or a collective right that can be exercised mainly by members of an organized militia.


(Excerpt) Read more at 2.ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: 2x4withanail; 911; 9mm; ak47; banglist; beltway; bill; bush; california; clinton; communist; congress; constitution; corruption; court; crazy; defeat; democrat; gore; greed; gun; hate; hillery; homelandsecurity; liberal; nut; power; rifle; right; senate; sniper; socialist; supreme; victory; wtc
Judge Reinhardt...is he senile, or is he a Communist?
1 posted on 12/28/2002 3:29:08 PM PST by vannrox
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To: vannrox
Gun-rights confusion

I'm not confused about MY RIGHTS, why are they? (ok, sarcasm off!)

2 posted on 12/28/2002 3:35:55 PM PST by BILL_C
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To: vannrox
MOLON LABE!!!!!!
3 posted on 12/28/2002 3:39:14 PM PST by Sparta
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To: Sparta
BTTT....Stay Safe !
4 posted on 12/28/2002 3:44:45 PM PST by Squantos
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To: vannrox
This must be a hoax. This can't be a California paper.
5 posted on 12/28/2002 3:45:44 PM PST by TC Rider
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To: TC Rider
Orange county is Republican. Check out all the famous 2000 map of red and blue - orange county is south of Los Angeles, but north of San Diego near the extreme south end of the state, near the coast. As liberal/commie as Kali is, like almost everywhere else in the country there is more red area than blue area.
6 posted on 12/28/2002 3:50:28 PM PST by coloradan
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To: *bang_list
bang!
7 posted on 12/28/2002 3:50:53 PM PST by coloradan
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To: vannrox
Senile Communist.
8 posted on 12/28/2002 3:53:39 PM PST by Taxman
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To: vannrox
Last year the Fifth Circuit, in United States v. Emerson, came to the opposite view, concluding, on the basis of the language of the amendment and the philosophies of the founders, that the Second Amendment does confer an individual right to bear arms

While the Fifth Circuit Court's opinion is better than the Ninth's, We (the People) should always keep in mind that nothing in the Bill of Rights confers a right, but rather protects God-given rights by limiting government's power to encroach upon them.

My guess is that Reinhardt is a commie.

9 posted on 12/28/2002 3:54:27 PM PST by TimSkalaBim
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To: vannrox; Travis McGee; maica
Travis McGee had posted this recently......

"A well educated citizenry being neccesary to the survival of a free nation, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."

Use this example on liberal gun grabbers, and ask them how this can be used to mean that only properly qualified universities and schools and other goverment authorized educators should be allowed the "collective right" to own or read books.

Stay Safe ..........needed repeating Travis :o)

10 posted on 12/28/2002 4:00:26 PM PST by Squantos
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To: TimSkalaBim
Reinhardt may very well be more communist than Democrat, but I believe he went to the lengths he did (by researching the issue and coming to an opposite conclusion from the Fifth) in order to force the Supremes to take the case.

I'm not absolutely sure what decision they may make, good or bad, but the two lower courts have put the onus on them to make some sort of decision. Like most of us, judges are probably pretty tired of all the bickering. They'd like to see it settled too.

11 posted on 12/28/2002 4:04:21 PM PST by oldfart
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To: coloradan
As liberal/commie as Kali is, like almost everywhere else in the country there is more red area than blue area.

Maybe there's still hope.

12 posted on 12/28/2002 4:10:48 PM PST by TC Rider
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To: Squantos
BTTT!
13 posted on 12/28/2002 4:15:17 PM PST by martian_22
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To: vannrox
Judge Reinhardt...is he senile, or is he a Communist?

Yes, he is.

14 posted on 12/28/2002 4:15:49 PM PST by arthurus
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To: oldfart
I dunno... I thought the 2ndA. was one of the "untouchable" individual rights that weren't subject to interpretation and compromise.

If they could be possibley tired of all the bickering and surrender to a "settlement", somebody's agenda/conditioning worked.

Now we have to "hope" for a "good or bad decision".

No sir. 'Don't like it one bit....

15 posted on 12/28/2002 4:25:51 PM PST by martian_22
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To: oldfart
Far from settling the issue, judges like Reinhardt want to unsettle the issue. The idea that an item in the Bill of Rights is not a right, is nothing if not an attempt to destroy the American Constitutional system.
16 posted on 12/28/2002 4:29:00 PM PST by TimSkalaBim
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To: martian_22
Personally, I think the libs are trying to rush a decision before Bush appoints more conservatives to the Court.
17 posted on 12/28/2002 4:30:28 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: Shooter 2.5
Judge Reinhardt...is he senile, or is he a Communist?

Yes and an A$$hole
18 posted on 12/28/2002 5:32:42 PM PST by outpost44
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To: Squantos
"A well educated citizenry being neccesary to the survival of a free nation, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed.".....What a wonderful slogan to post at schools and public libraries....The liberals would love it untill they realized the implications!

19 posted on 12/28/2002 6:59:36 PM PST by M-cubed
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To: M-cubed; Travis McGee
Yeah I really liked it and have printed it up on some cards.......first I saw it posted was from FReeper Travis Mcgee. I like the idea of printing it on a t-shirt...kids "will" wear t-shirts :o)

Stay safe !

20 posted on 12/28/2002 7:54:29 PM PST by Squantos
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To: vannrox
"Judge Reinhardt...is he senile, or is he a Communist?"

I'd say he's both.

21 posted on 12/28/2002 8:01:17 PM PST by blackbart.223
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To: M-cubed
The version of it I heard was "A well educated electorate being neccesary to the survival of a free nation, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."

IMO, this is closer to the the phrasing of the Second Amendment in that both state that the right in question is being protected to support a subgroup of the population (electorate in this version, militia in 2nd Amendment), but that this protection applies to all citizens.

Just my $2*10^-2.

FReegards,
Slings and Arrows

22 posted on 12/28/2002 8:48:17 PM PST by Slings and Arrows
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To: Squantos; M-cubed; Travis McGee
Why don't you hand it over to Oleg Volk over at thehighroad.org and see what he can do with it?
23 posted on 12/28/2002 9:20:36 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: vannrox
"Judge Reinhardt...is he senile, or is he a Communist? "

He's a Californian, so anything else is redundant! (With apologies to all Left Coast Freepers)

Regards, Lenny

24 posted on 12/28/2002 9:34:52 PM PST by lennydetroit
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To: Shooter 2.5
He the same guy at a human right dot something er other ??

Stay Safe !

25 posted on 12/28/2002 9:37:43 PM PST by Squantos
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To: vannrox
Whether the court has the political courage and intellectual integrity to do so properly may be in question.

Yes, it is. They have been dodging the issue for 40 years.

26 posted on 12/28/2002 10:03:49 PM PST by Hugin
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To: TimSkalaBim
"....nothing in the Bill of Rights confers a right, but rather protects God-given rights by limiting government's power to encroach upon them."

(LOUD APPLAUSE!!!)

You are, of course, absolutely correct. This is basic high school civics (at least, it used to be).

This scumbag judge Stephen Reinhardt from the Ninth Circus actually said....

"....the Second Amendment does not confer an individual right to own or possess arms."

.... and thereby demonstrated (on several levels), that he does not even possess the most basic understanding of the United States Constitution. How utterly embarrassing that he used the phrase "confer an individual right". A federal freakin' judge!!! The filthy puke.

27 posted on 12/28/2002 10:18:53 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Hugin
Whether the court has the political courage and intellectual integrity to do so properly may be in question.

This newspaper is no doubt referring to four or five members of the Supreme Court, not all of them collectively. It's a shame they didn't just come out and say it.

28 posted on 12/28/2002 10:23:27 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: vannrox
Erudite? He claims in his ruling that the individual rights view has "never been adopted by any court," when in fact there are dozens of state court cases to that effect, and dicta in a number of Supreme Court cases that indicate an individual rights view.

Erudidiot, is more like it.
29 posted on 12/29/2002 1:38:35 AM PST by mvpel
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To: martian_22
Now we have to "hope" for a "good or bad decision".

Not really. I'm going to keep my guns regardless of how they rule. If they rule against individual rights,they are wrong,and no man is obligated to follow a wrong law. Personally,I don't think the Supremes will touch it.

30 posted on 12/29/2002 4:08:37 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: Squantos
http://www.mcrgo.org/photo_gallery_volk1.asp

His posters have been on FR a number of times.

He was the first poster on High Road in the discussions area. I don't think he would be hard to contact.
31 posted on 12/29/2002 5:48:51 AM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: TimSkalaBim
We (the People) should always keep in mind that nothing in the Bill of Rights confers a right, but rather protects God-given rights by limiting government's power to encroach upon them.

Too bad NPR doesn't understand that. In a hit-piece on the 2nd Amendment the other morning, they repeatedly and with emphasis tried to make the point that "most courts" have ruled that the 2nd Amendment doesn't "allow for individual ownership of guns".

32 posted on 12/29/2002 6:19:06 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: Shooter 2.5; Slings and Arrows; Squantos; drZ
I can't claim credit for that one! Wish I could but I can't. It is a great parallel saying though: "clearly this means that dangerous books must be kept only under strict control at state sponsored institutes of higher learning! They must not be permitted into the hands of every ordinary individuals, where their great power can be misused!"
33 posted on 12/29/2002 4:39:00 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: vannrox
I always thought the right to bear arms was closely related to the most basic human right which is the right to control one's own self. It is also related to the right to life.

The idea that one cedes the ability to protect their own person to some other entity or government agency is just plain awful and unamerican.

It is the very opposity of personal freedom and responsibility.

34 posted on 12/29/2002 4:52:28 PM PST by yarddog
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To: vannrox
Religion, taxes, firearms: Today's topics from yesterday's revolution.
35 posted on 12/29/2002 4:57:47 PM PST by Scruffy
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To: vannrox
I think commie is very close to a good, working definition.
36 posted on 12/29/2002 5:01:14 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: M-cubed
Ohhhh.. I like.

Of course, considering how education is treated nowdays I can see people saying "Sure, we would go along with that.."

37 posted on 12/29/2002 5:04:37 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Travis McGee
I registered on highroad.org and sent Oleg an e mail. I mentioned FR and you. I don't know if anything will come out of it but he does such nice work, it would be interesting if he could do a poster.
38 posted on 12/29/2002 6:18:44 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: vannrox
Simply put: BOTH!!!!!
39 posted on 12/30/2002 6:20:39 AM PST by RollingThunder
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To: vannrox
BTTT
40 posted on 12/30/2002 6:28:03 AM PST by SevenDaysInMay
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To: Travis McGee; Shooter 2.5; Slings and Arrows; Squantos; drZ
Second Amendment Analogue:

"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the preservation of a free society, the right of the people to read and compose books shall not be infringed."


41 posted on 12/30/2002 8:53:34 AM PST by Joe Brower
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To: Joe Brower
Dang it Joe I was gonna get some work done around here today.......That's one excellent web site. I'll be there a few hours :o)

Stay Safe and Thank You Very Much !!!

42 posted on 12/30/2002 9:37:40 AM PST by Squantos
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To: Squantos
I was gonna get some work done around here today

Don'tcha just hate it when that happens? $;-)

43 posted on 12/30/2002 9:51:20 AM PST by Joe Brower
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To: Joe Brower
The Silveira decision mentions the patent protection power in the Constitution as a possible analogue, but they dismiss it out of hand, missing the point entirely. They came within a hairs-breadth of the truth there.
44 posted on 12/30/2002 4:00:01 PM PST by mvpel
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To: mvpel
As Larry Elders pointed out a couple of years back, "Truth to a liberal is like Kryptonite to Superman"...


45 posted on 12/31/2002 6:31:41 AM PST by Joe Brower
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