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Atheist expects Boy Scouts to change, but not soon
The Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^
| 12/30/02
| JOHN IWASAKI
Posted on 01/03/2003 8:35:59 AM PST by RonF
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
If he doesn't like the Boy Scouts, why does he want to be one ? Good call. And if he insists on being a scout, why doesn't he start his own organization? Gay Scouts or God-free Scouts or something like that. It would be interesting to see how many join up and if it is still going strong after nearly a century.
To: Jimer
The Boy Scouts are cutting their own throats. They are shortsighted and self destructive. Stupid good people are..........stupid.The BSA has lasted 92 years with their current policies, and I don't see where their continued existence is threatened. I'm 50 years old and have spent more than 20 of those years as a registered member of the BSA, so I have spent some time observing the BSA closely.
I would think that stupidity and self-destructiveness would take less time than that to work. Perhaps you could expand on how you feel that the BSA is short-sighted, self-destructive, and stupid.
22
posted on
01/03/2003 9:21:53 AM PST
by
RonF
To: RonF
I would think that stupidity and self-destructiveness would take less time than that to work.Good point. In addition to being stupid and self-destructive, they are also very slow. They will change with the times, or they will wither on the vine.
23
posted on
01/03/2003 9:31:00 AM PST
by
Consort
To: Lil'freeper
(I know I'm out on thin ice here but) I also wonder about members of various religious denominations who demand drastic changes in their faiths.
Why not start one of your own ?
To: RonF
They always expect others to change for them. Why the heck can't these people start their own groups?
25
posted on
01/03/2003 9:39:43 AM PST
by
hsmomx3
To: Britton J Wingfield
The Gay/Athesist/Pagan/Lesbian/Transgendered/Democrat scouts are here. They are called
SpiralScouts!
26
posted on
01/03/2003 9:40:52 AM PST
by
\/\/ayne
To: RonF
If that were true, then believers wouldn't have moral lapses. But we both know they do. Even Mother Teresa struggled with her faith and all believers continually strive to make it stronger.
You get your personal stregth from your faith, while I get mine from knowing that I have to live with myself and the consequenses of my actions. My system works for me, I'm glad you have a system that works for you.
To: RAT Patrol
Hey! I'm a 41 year old female and the Boy Scouts won't let ME join. Maybe I can sue. I'm going to ask my wife if I can start up a troop that will include you. Of course, I will expect to be the Scout Master {{:-)
28
posted on
01/03/2003 9:52:51 AM PST
by
trebb
To: Van Jenerette
I would rather base mine on something more than current public opinion
One might argue that basing your morals on an old mythological entity might actually be 'less' than current public opinion. That isn't to say that you would be better off with public opinion, but still...wanting a God to provide an absolute system of morality is proof of neither a God nor an absoulte system of morality.
29
posted on
01/03/2003 10:04:45 AM PST
by
Dimensio
To: RonF
Faith in God gives you a basis in unchanging truths that give strong tools to face an ever-changing world.
To an atheist, 'Faith in God' isn't any different a source of morality than just making them up on your own except that the former is incorrectly attributed to a nonexistent (or at least non-demonstrated) entity.
30
posted on
01/03/2003 10:06:46 AM PST
by
Dimensio
To: RonF
Hmmm. Interesting. Well, my point was only that all groups exclude all kinds of people. I think this whole thing is stupid. Now, if the government said "atheists are not allowed to form a scouting group of their own" that would be discrimination.
To: trebb
Okay. Can we change the color of the uniforms? I look better in pink.
To: RonF
My 'public opinion' of Mr. Lambert - he is a liar and a fraud. After all, he pledged innumerable times to do his duty to God.
33
posted on
01/03/2003 10:45:25 AM PST
by
MEGoody
To: Jimer
"Stupid good people are..........stupid."
Good people are stupid?
34
posted on
01/03/2003 10:48:29 AM PST
by
MEGoody
To: judgeandjury
"That's kind of like saying that I legally have the right to live in a big expensive mansion, but morally I don't."
And I have to wonder if Lambert would agree that women have a legal right to abort, but morally they don't. I would be willing to bet he'd switch gears right quick if someone made that statement to him.
35
posted on
01/03/2003 10:50:37 AM PST
by
MEGoody
To: Lil'freeper
And if he insists on being a scout, why doesn't he start his own organization? Gay Scouts or God-free Scouts or something like that.A Congressional Charter prohibits any other "boy scouts" organization. The term "boy scouts" was generic at one time. At one time, there were many different "boy scouts" organizations here. In other countries, there are still many different "boy scouts" organizations. But, in the U.S., there can be only ONE. BSA has used the charter given to it by Congress in the early 1900's to sue and then swallow-up any other scouting organization who attempts to use the same name. BSA even lays claim to the name "scout"; for example, the YMCA isn't permitted to use that word anywhere in its literature (even though "scouts" was what their "Indian guides" were supposed to be). Then, the BSA receives donations from our military (courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer); access to children in public school classrooms; a few parks are maintained for the sole use of the BSA; and a scout automatically can qualify for a level two grades higher than anyone else upon admission into the military.
Can you tell I've been reading about the BSA lately?
The BSA has been established, endorsed, and subsidized by the government. It is a federally-protected government monopoly that requires a religious test upon entrance.
To: Tired of Taxes
The BSA has been established, endorsed, and subsidized by the government.
That can't be right. They argued to the USSC that they are a 'private religious organization'! They wouldn't have lied, would they?
37
posted on
01/03/2003 11:05:59 AM PST
by
Dimensio
To: Dimensio
They wouldn't have lied, would they?Lie? Oh, no, that would violate their own principles! ;-)
It's ironic how the BSA will complain that people are trying to destroy them with lawsuits when lawsuits is exactly how the BSA got started. I was just reading that there were many other boy scouts organizations, and one was called American Boy Scouts. BSA sued ABS to make ABS change its name; it did, to United States Boy Scouts. Then BSA petitioned for the congressional charter, and then it sued USBS to get it to stop using the name "boy scouts". One source said USBS changed its name again to American Cadets but then disappeared eventually. Meanwhile, the BSA proceeded to swallow-up the other boy scouts organizations in a more "friendly" manner. In 1989, the BSA reportedly "threatened" Wilderness Scouts with a suit, though I'm not sure what is meant by that. The Wilderness Scouts still exist - I forget which state they're in.
To: Dimensio
...wanting a God to provide an absolute system of morality is proof of neither a God nor an absoulte system of morality. Fortunately for us mortals, proof is not a necessary prerequisite for mankinds moral code...proof of the exhistance of GOD would be the antithesis of the idea of faith. At the end of the day, the PARADOX of GOD is critical to maintain any semblance of civility.
Van Jenerette
To: Tired of Taxes
BSA even lays claim to the name "scout"; Good for them! Great historical tidbits- thanks.
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