Atheist expects Boy Scouts to change, but not soon

The Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | 12/30/02 | JOHN IWASAKI

[Tired of Taxes]

Your BSA argument as applied to Jewish War Veterans, U.S.A. is as follows: If a Catholic war veteran is denied admission into the Jewish War Veterans, U.S.A, that represents a case of "a government-established/endorsed/subsidized organization that has a religious requirement for veterans to enter and then, by using a government charter, doesn't allow the veterans denied admission to establish their own group." That argument is a lie.

You misunderstood my argument. That's not what I was saying at all. What I'm pointing out is that the Jewish War Veterans, for example, do not have a trademark on the name "veterans". That is, anyone else who is non-Jewish can create their own organization. Thus, I'm saying exactly what you're saying here:

There is absolutely nothing that prevents the Catholic veterans from establishing their own group that is limited to Catholics or open to all.

[Tired of Taxes]

I still say "income tax" is unconstitutional. But, that's another argument for another topic. =)

[Polybius]

Better comparisons would be Moosehead Beer having trademark rights to the word "beer"; Coke having rights to the word "soda"; and Microsoft having rights to the word "computer". "Scout" is a generic term listed in the dictionary. It is absurd that not even the YMCA is permitted to use it.

The last time I checked Webster's, "Moose" was a generic term listed in the dictionary.

As I pointed out in Post 305, Jewish War Veterans, U.S.A. also have an Honorary Congressional Charter protecting their name....."Jewish"..."war"..."veterans"....What can be more generic than that?

The next time you sit down for breakfast with a bowl of Kellogg’s Corn Flakes®, ponder the fact that both "corn" and "flakes" are "generic terms listed in the dictionary".

Trademaks are often merely generic words that are picked out of the dictionary to describe a specific product. Anybody could have used the term "Corn Flakes" prior to Kellogg's application for exclusive rights to that name. However, nobody bothered since, prior to the Kellogg's product, the term "Corn Flakes" had no particular identification meaning to the public.

Likewise, before the Boy Scouts chartered their name, nobody bothered to seek exclusive rights to the terms "Boy Scout" and "Scouts" as those generic words had no particular identification meaning to the public.

[Conan the Librarian]

What no one seems to have addressed is the Scout Law. There are rules for being a Boy Scout and if you can not, or will not obay those laws, you are not a Scout. It is not a matter of descrimination, its a matter of what defines a Scout.

A Scout is:

Trustworthy
Loyal
Helpful
Friendly
Courteous
Kind
Obediant
Thrifty
Brave
Clean
And
Reverent (He is Reverent to God)

This is what a Scout is. If you cannot follow these laws you cannot be Scout. Its very simple

The law is very specific about what a Scout is. This Eagle Scout has not learned the Scout law (How DID he become an Eagle Scout without that I don't know) He was not Trustworthy (He lied about being reverent to God) he was not Obediant to God and He was not reverent. He Should have been thrown out of the Scout.

If one doesn't like the rules of an organization, start your own. It isn't descrimination at all. Its defining who you are and holding to it.

[Tired of Taxes]

How consistent and absolute are your morals? Take the test and find out:

http://www.philosophers.co.uk/games/morality_play.htm

[RonF]

Find me in the Bible where it says "Thou shalt not smoke dope."

[Tired of Taxes]

Yes, the words "moose", "Jewish", "war", "veterans", "corn", and "flakes" are all generic terms. Other companies or organizations may not be permitted to combine the terms (like "Jewish war veterans" or "moose beer"), but others can use the terms separately (i.e. "moose chocolate" or "Catholic war veterans").

before the Boy Scouts chartered their name, nobody bothered to seek exclusive rights to the terms "Boy Scout" and "Scouts" as those generic words had no particular identification meaning to the public.

The USBS (United States Boy Scouts) did ask for a congressional charter at the time, but they were denied. "Boy" and "scout" are both generic terms. Yet, no one else is permitted use of the word "scout". There were many other scouts organizations for boys in the early 1900's (such as the USBS), but, by congressional charter, Congress decided there should only be ONE.

I would have no argument if Congress granted charters to other scouts organizations for boys.

[Polybius]

The USBS (United States Boy Scouts) did ask for a congressional charter at the time, but they were denied. "Boy" and "scout" are both generic terms. Yet, no one else is permitted use of the word "scout". There were many other scouts organizations for boys in the early 1900's (such as the USBS), but, by congressional charter, Congress decided there should only be ONE.

According to U.S. law, "Scouts" and "Scouting" are not generic terms and are protected just as the Red Cross emblem is. You may disagree with that and you may not like it but that is the law.

Is the word Scout or Scouts Copyrighted or Trademarked?

In trademarks or in name protection Charters, whoever applies for exclusive rights first gets exclusive rights.

It's just like with patents:

"But, but, but...I invented Gizmo X!"

"Did you apply for a patent for Gizmo X, Mr. Taxes?"

"No. I was busy making modifications and I was going to get arount to it but then..."

"Well, I'm sorry. Mr. Smith did apply for a patent and Mr. Smith now owns the rights to Gizmo X. It's all right here in this section of Federal law under "You snooze - You Loose."

[Dimensio]

And once again someone ignores the very real possiblity of a Scout who believes himself to be reverent and only later loses his faith in a god.

[RonF]

This Scout declared to his Eagle Board of Review that he was an atheist. Now, I'm betting that earlier in his Scouting career he did believe, and then lost his faith as he got older, which is what it seems to me that you are proposing. But in any case he should never have been awarded his Eagle after making such a declaration.

[Conan the Librarian]

If he lost his faith he is no longer a Scout...kick him out. Actually he should just quit if he can't follow the law. If a Scout can not obey the Scout Law and live up to the Scout oath, then why are they a Scout in the first place. Why would anyone want to be part of an organization that is so much against what they believe? "I am a fiscal Conservative...but I am going to join the Communist Party just because they have great cookouts." Are you saying that that makes since? Get real.

[Conan the Librarian]

Therein lies the rub. It's apparent that no one on the board understands the importants of the Scout Law and Oath ...even more so actually read it. You CAN NOT be a Boy Scout of America without believing in God. If you loose your faith you should quit. Its that simple. The Law does not say "You can be a Scout and just obey some of the rules"

[yendu bwam]

If one doesn't like the rules of an organization, start your own. It isn't descrimination at all. Its defining who you are and holding to it.

Hear, hear!