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Making Waves Over Noah's Flood (Black Sea)
Newsday ^ | 1-14-2002 | Robert Cooke

Posted on 01/14/2003 7:53:47 AM PST by blam

Making Waves Over Noah’s Flood

Some research backs the biblical story and some finds no evidence of the catastrophe

By Robert Cooke
STAFF WRITER

January 14, 2003

Scientists are seriously challenging a recent, fascinating proposal that Noah's epic story - setting sail with an ark jam-full of animal couples - was based on an actual catastrophic flood that suddenly filled the Black Sea 7,500 years ago, forcing people to flee.

In a detailed new look at the rocks, sediments, currents and seashells in and around the Black Sea, an international research team pooh-poohs the Noah flood idea, arguing that all the geologic, hydrologic and biologic signs are wrong. Little that the earth can tell us seems to fit the Noah story, they say.

The new research takes direct aim at the work of two Columbia University geologists - William Ryan and Walter Pitman - whose proposal in 1997 ignited much new interest, and much new research, into Middle East history and geology.

According to Ryan and Pitman, their strong evidence shows that sudden flooding of the Black Sea did occur, and they think it was such a traumatic event that it became part of the folklore of ancient peoples of the Middle East, showing up vividly in the Bible.

Ryan and Pitman's bold proposal, first published in a marine geology journal, holds that the gradual rise of sea level at the end of the last Ice Age eventually overtopped and washed out a fragile natural barrier across what is now the Bosporus Strait. And once the barrier fell, it set off a catastrophe for settlers living in a huge basin to the northeast.

As the fragile barrier across the Bosporus collapsed, Ryan and Pitman proposed, a massive amount of seawater surged from the Mediterranean into what was then a stagnant, low-lying basin, the huge region now filled by the Black Sea. According to their scenario, the surge of seawater continued for about two years, until the major inland sea reached its present size.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliaksu; blacksea; blackseaflood; danuberiver; flood; grandcanyon; greatflood; liviugiosan; making; noah; noahs; noahsark; noahsflood; petkodimitrov; richardhiscott; robertballard; waves
I trust Ryan and Pittman. Click on the source for the complete article.
1 posted on 01/14/2003 7:53:47 AM PST by blam
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To: RightWhale; JudyB1938; #3Fan; albee; yoe; Cool Guy; Slicksadick; CobaltBlue; manna; lucyblue; ...
You asked to be pinged.
2 posted on 01/14/2003 7:58:34 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
sounds like it might have happened...
3 posted on 01/14/2003 7:58:43 AM PST by rface (Ashland, Missouri)
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4 posted on 01/14/2003 8:05:42 AM PST by justshe (One nation.....under God...with liberty and justice for all.)
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To: blam
Well, it does seem rather incomplete to state definitively what was happening in the Black Sea area by studying core samples from the Mediterranean side of the Bosporus.

I would think that cores taken on the Black Sea side would be more indicative of whether material washed in during the scenario Ryan and Pittman envision.

5 posted on 01/14/2003 8:09:30 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Ff--150; 4ConservativeJustices
Noah's ark ping
6 posted on 01/14/2003 8:10:59 AM PST by billbears
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To: blam
Either way, the coolest part is the fact that things on the bottom of the Black Sea are so well-preserved. Looking forward to the results of more explorations.
7 posted on 01/14/2003 8:15:44 AM PST by CobaltBlue
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To: MudPuppy
ping.
8 posted on 01/14/2003 8:17:19 AM PST by blam
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To: Jhoffa_
Noah was right but no one listened and they called Noah insane and crazy in his day didn't they?
Like they do in this day.

But the Floods came and washed em all away......
9 posted on 01/14/2003 8:22:31 AM PST by TLBSHOW (as I always say hold their feet to the fire...........)
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To: blam
There was an article in Time or Newsweek a few years ago about a brilliant geologist who specialized in hydro-mechanics and fluid dynamics. He wrote a paper and a computer model regarding high velocity hydro-erosion that postulated that so many of our modern geology and rock formations must have been manufactured by a sudden retreat of water---and by sudden---he meant sudden, not thousands or millions of years.

I wish I could remember his name--because it was a fascinating read. If anyone knows--please post it.

10 posted on 01/14/2003 8:30:32 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: blam
read later
11 posted on 01/14/2003 8:37:29 AM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: SkyPilot
I would be interested in reading that. I work with geologists every day, and that certainly is not the model they are using.
12 posted on 01/14/2003 8:38:38 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: SkyPilot
The breakout of The Glacial Lake Agassiz affected ocean levels worldwide. It was sudden.
13 posted on 01/14/2003 8:56:50 AM PST by blam
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To: SkyPilot; blam
That would be Dr Henry M Morris, hydraulic engineer. See:

http://www.icr.org/creationscientists/physicalscientists.html#hmorris

He wrote this excellent book:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2UN7H8UEUT&isbn=0875523382&itm=1

Dr John D Morris' comments on the Black Sea issue can be found here:

http://www.icr.org/pubs/btg-b/btg-134b.htm

14 posted on 01/14/2003 9:06:19 AM PST by JudyB1938
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To: SkyPilot
oops Forgot to ping you. See my post above.
15 posted on 01/14/2003 9:07:25 AM PST by JudyB1938
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To: JudyB1938
Duhhh ... I guess I didn't forget to ping.
16 posted on 01/14/2003 9:08:11 AM PST by JudyB1938
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To: Dog Gone
See my post above. It was YOU I forgot to ping. (embarrassed)

That book is on sale for $12.82 if you wanted to find out more about his theories.
17 posted on 01/14/2003 9:10:16 AM PST by JudyB1938
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To: JudyB1938
Hmmmmm.
18 posted on 01/14/2003 9:11:37 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Thanks for the ping, bump
19 posted on 01/14/2003 9:16:26 AM PST by Slicksadick
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To: JudyB1938
Thanks!
20 posted on 01/14/2003 9:27:02 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: SkyPilot
sudden

There are several such periods shown by core samples. The glacial lake breaks out and the ocean level world-wide rises 20 meters in a week to ten days. Villagers would have to evacuate coastal villages quickly and undertake a memorable emergency hike inland. Those with boats would get an E-ticket ride.

21 posted on 01/14/2003 9:42:26 AM PST by RightWhale
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To: JudyB1938
Dr. Morris authored Applied Hydraulics in Engineering, which has been used by over 100 colleges and universities at one time or another. It is still used today as a reference and even the main text in some university classes.

I used that text in my Undergrad Engineering classes!

some of the problems in there were a real Bi^ch!

22 posted on 01/14/2003 9:54:48 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: blam
Doesnt the Bible say the flood was Worldwide and every living thing but those on the Ark were destroyed?

I forgot...we arent supposed to say that!!

^___^

23 posted on 01/14/2003 10:06:55 AM PST by Gasshog
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To: blam
Noah's Ark is easily explained as a logical speculation about the natural world based on limited information.

You can find fish and shell fossils in the moutains. How did they get there? They must have been covered by the ocean. How did the land animal survive if the land was covered with water? They must have been saved in a boat. You'd need two of every animal (basic reproduction). Noah and family would need 7 clean animals so they could have something kosher to eat during their trip. How did the flood happen? A whole lot of water from God. Why would God flood the land? There must have been something really awful that he wanted to wipe away.

The whole story is easily created by looking at the world through ancient eyes and asking, "Why?" You don't need a real live historical flood to get this story. And, no, I don't think the inclusion of something fictional means that the whole Bible is fiction. I would be surprised if some Ancient Near Eastern mythology didn't make it into the Bible by accident.

24 posted on 01/14/2003 10:26:37 AM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: blam
Pong ...
25 posted on 01/14/2003 10:30:48 AM PST by manna
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To: SkyPilot
I used that text in my Undergrad Engineering classes!

I tried to read his book on the flood, but it was too much over my head. Since you already know this man is credible, you'd probably really like it.

26 posted on 01/14/2003 10:31:48 AM PST by JudyB1938
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To: Gasshog
All the earth-dependent animals died, but not the fish. That is why we are still getting dinosaur fish turning up. Also I believe dinosaurs were on the Ark. They gradually receded as the earth's population grew and the climate made it hard to get a good meal.

The real issue is - this is revealed in the Scriptures, not proven by a scientist. However, it is not surprising to find actual Biblical events leaving evidence behind.
27 posted on 01/14/2003 10:34:52 AM PST by Chemnitz (Protect the weakest of the weak - the unborn)
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To: Chemnitz
You are right. forgot about the marine life.

still the whole idea smells like an attempt to discredit the Scripture by reducing the Flood to a local event (Black Sea)
28 posted on 01/14/2003 12:11:49 PM PST by Gasshog
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To: Gasshog
Some people will find out the Rest of the Story when they die. And it will be too late for them.

I am fascinated by the implications of the global Flood, the pre-Flood golden age, etc. I am writing a book on the subject.

I am not tied to particular theories about ancient mysteries, such as the pyramids, etc., but I think the technology of the pre-Flood world explains most or all of it. No one can explain how the gigantic stone monuments of the past were built. No one can duplicate them today. That should say something about our assumptions of being at the peak of technology.

However, all this is just a side benefit of knowing the Scriptures as revelation. The main benefit is forgiveness and salvation.
29 posted on 01/14/2003 12:35:21 PM PST by Chemnitz (Protect the weakest of the weak - the unborn)
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To: Question_Assumptions
Noah's Ark is easily explained as a logical speculation about the natural world based on limited information.

Well, I sppose so. Of course, people have cited the same facts as you - sea shells on mountain tops - as evidence for the Flood. But I rather doubt that's how the story got started in the first place. It seems more likely that the source of a flood myth is, well, a flood.

Recall that the myth originated in Sumer, which doesn't have much in the way of mountains, but which is pretty flood prone country. All it would take is heavy rain, an unusual amount of water in the rivers, and maybe strong winds backing up the water in the Gulf.

The "sea breaking in" scenario has also been around for a long time; it was popularised about 30 years ago in a novel by an author whose name I forget, but he had the entire Mediterranean basin flooding.

The Black Sea hypothesis is interesting but, as the article points out, it simply wouldn't work. There is a net flow of water out of the Black Sea, and there has been for a s long as the Russian and Balkan rivers have been there, which is a long time. So closing the Bosphorus would cause the water level in the Black Sea to rise, not fall.

30 posted on 01/14/2003 6:50:31 PM PST by John Locke
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