Utah Gays Ready for Trouble (armed gays don't get bashed)

Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 21 January 2003 | Mark Eddington

[45Auto]

A gay Democrat firing a 9 mm pistol is not something you see every day in Utah County.

But that was the scene recently at a Springville shooting range, where David Nelson assumed a traditional firing stance -- legs shoulder-width apart, a slight forward lean, arms extended -- with a semiautomatic and peppered targets. And he was not alone.

Seven others -- though not all Democrats -- were there with him, taking the four-hour gun-orientation class from certified instructor Michael Stilwell.

Their message for those who say guns and gays don't or shouldn't mix: Get used to it.

Nelson is the founder of Pink Pistols of Utah, which aims to educate gays and lesbians about their Second Amendment rights in general and firearms in particular. Doug Krick, a bisexual from Boston, started Pink Pistols in 2000.

Members say they have joined the group because they want the ability to fight back if they become targets. Gays, lesbians and bisexuals ranked fourth in the FBI hierarchy of hate-crimes victims, according to 2001 statistics.

In the absence of effective hate-crime laws, more gays are turning to guns to defend themselves, families and friends. Utah's Pink Pistols -- formed in November and now the nation's largest chapter with more than 100 gay, lesbian and straight members -- are believers in the loose-knit organization's national motto: "Armed gays don't get bashed."

Nelson says gays and lesbians should familiarize themselves with firearms for self-preservation.

"I'm not advocating vigilante bands of gays and lesbians running around with guns and taking the law into their own hands," says Nelson, a Salt Lake City resident who also founded the Utah Democratic Gay and Lesbian Caucus. "But I've read about instances where guns helped gays and lesbians from becoming victims."

Nelson and a partner were mugged at knifepoint in 1985 by "wannabe gang members" in San Francisco.

While the couple lost only $20, Nelson remembers feeling psychologically numb from the crime. He believes carrying a gun would at least have helped him feel more in control, even though he says would not have used it in that situation.

Salt Lake City activist Michael Aaron, another Pink Pistol, has been followed by motorists and had his front door kicked in because of his sexual orientation and advocacy for gay and lesbian rights.

"The last thing I want to do is get in a situation where I need to use a gun," he says. "But if there ever was a situation calling for a flight-or-fight response, it's good to know the fight option is there."

Self-defense is not the only reason for gun ownership and Pink Pistol membership.

Nelson and others are interested in the competitive aspect of firearms, hoping maybe to compete in the Federation of Gay Games. Politics also helps explain some members' passion for guns.

Aaron, for instance, was intrigued by the prospect of uniting gay activists from the political left with gun advocates from the political right. "I wanted to see what would result," he says.

The juxtaposition can be jarring. Pink Pistols and traditional gay groups, the latter typically favoring gun control, do not see eye to eye.

When Pink Pistols are not drawing fire in the gay community, they often are being greeted with rolled eyes and raised eyebrows.

"It's great they are exercising their Second Amendment rights, but I don't see this as a real issue right now," says Michael Mitchell, executive director of Unity Utah, a lesbian and gay political action committee. "Utah is not a place that denies gun ownership to anyone."

Others battling for gay rights favor passive or nonviolent tactics, the so-called moral high ground. But Nelson does not aspire to those heights, not if it means absorbing a beating or being killed while waiting for police to arrive.

"Is a Matthew Shepard dead on a fence morally superior to a Matthew Shepard having to explain to law enforcement officers why he shot the two perpetrators in self-defense?" he asks.

"If he had been armed like the perpetrators, there could have been a completely different outcome." Shepard, a gay University of Wyoming student, died in 1998 after being beaten and tied to a fence post.

With their orientation class out of the way, the Pink Pistols will be applying for concealed-firearms permits from Utah's Bureau of Criminal Identification. Members are also setting their sights on changing attitudes on guns within the gay community.

Utah's Pink Pistols meet monthly at various ranges. More information can be found on the group's Web site at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/PinkPistolsUtah.

[Tax-chick]

Good for them! All Americans should be prepared to defend themselves against violence.

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[dogbrain]

"...the Pink Pistols will be applying for concealed-firearms permits..."

It would be interesting to know the reason specified when these
people apply for their CCW permits, and their relative success
rate as compared to non-gay CCW permit applicants.

Could this be a "good thing" for for RKBA efforts?

[T Minus Four]

Oh, thank goodness, it's gays with guns. I heard something about this on the local news and for a minute thought it was some feminist man-hating group.

[T Minus Four]

It would be interesting to know the reason specified when these people apply for their CCW permits

Utah does not require a reason to get a concealed carry permit, thank you.

[dogbrain]

...COOL!

[Misterioso]

Does that include 12-year-old boys when faggots try to rape them?

How about 12-year-old altar boys when Fathers try to rape them? Maybe this is the solution to the Church's problem. "Is that a Glock in your pocket, Billy, or are you just glad to see me?" BTW, I wonder if the LDS church has this problem?

[Tax-chick]

Of course, if the 12-year-old boys have been taught to shoot. My boys (6 and 8) can shoot!

[For the Unborn]

I moved away from the east coast to get away from the sordid and the liberals are infecting this beautiful state too.

[Tax-chick]

I'll add (having shoo'd some kids off to bed) that the tone of your post seems anti-gay. That's an understandable position, but one that doesn't seem to have any relevance to the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Men rape women, in very considerable numbers, but does that mean that men shouldn't be able to defend themselves against violence? Blacks commit crimes against whites, and whites against blacks, and blacks against Asians, and Chicanos against ... each other ...

Are you in favor of "perpetrator groups" and "victim groups," chosen by somebody's personal criteria, of which only the "victim groups" are allowed to defend themselves?

[LaraCroft]

Far far more litte 12 year old girls are raped by MEN (or males who pretend to be) than otherwise.

any bigotted words for them?

Lara, who really believes the old adage about homophobes really being gay. It shows all over

[Blood of Tyrants]

In the absence of effective hate-crime laws, more gays are turning to guns to defend themselves, families and friends.

LAWS don't stop crime. If they did, there would never be robbery or murder or rape. Anyone who thinks that "hate" crimes will protect them can take out a life insurance policy with me as the benefactor and then start taking long walks in bad neighboorhoods.

[Tax-chick]

In the absence of effective hate-crime laws, more gays are turning to guns to defend themselves, families and friends.

Or how about, "In the absence of effective law enforcement, more people are turning to guns to defend themselves."

Or even better, "Americans don't rely on anyone else for their safety: they defend themselves!"

[freedumb2003]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Many is the time that I unabashedly enjoy watching liberals hoisted upon their own petards. The best example was when Bill Clinton used his position of power to intimidate females into secual affairs, to the deafining silence of feminists. Or when the professional victims get special deals (such as UMich admissions points or extra points on govt. bidding) which is used to prove their inferiority (by dint of the need for the extra help).

Well, they got us on this one. As one of the earlier posters said, the second amendment is clear that we all have freedoms that we sometimes must protect using weapons when words won't work -- an immediate assault on your person because of your beliefs can't be argued into submission. On the other hand, the sex-is-all-there-is permissiveness of the gay world is certainly a massive contributor to the moral decay we are fighting against.

The right to use arms to protect moral decay. I find myself dragged into the affirmative on this, but I don't like it. Rights trump morality, but only by a small margin.

Someday, someone will explain to the left, in words they can understand, that rights do not equate to license.

Can someone out there help me reconcile this dicotomy?

[Tax-chick]

How about this?

Nelson and a partner were mugged at knifepoint in 1985 by "wannabe gang members" in San Francisco.

There's nothing to suggest that the two men were attacked because of their lifestyle. The point is for people to be able to defend themselves against crime.

I think homosexuality is immoral. If cities or states or other jurisdictions want to have (enforced!) laws against homosexual behavior ... give it a try.

Then let's have (enforced!) laws against heterosexual immorality ... adultery, fornication, contraception ... is it worth the effort?

Or alternatively, it's often the government that imposes "tolerance" of homosexuality and other immorality on communities that have moral values. The more everyone takes up their duty to bear arms, the more constituency there is for preserving individual rights against an oppressive government.

Just some muddled thoughts ...

[cruiserman]

Their message for those who say guns and gays don't or shouldn't mix

Where did that come from? Why should gays not have guns?

[cruiserman]

In the absence of effective hate-crime laws

Yeah, we all know that laws prevent crime.

[T Minus Four]

The right to use arms to protect moral decay. I find myself dragged into the affirmative on this, but I don't like it. Rights trump morality, but only by a small margin... Can someone out there help me reconcile this dicotomy?

It is a dicotomy, and I can't reconcile it either, except to agree that gay people have just as much right to protect themselves as anyone. I know that some of us get a picture in our heads of 12-year-olds being molested at gunpoint, but one would not have to be gay to do that. And anyway, someone who would do that, gay or straight, would most likely not bother getting a legal concealed carry permit.

T

[Trickyguy]

Far far more litte 12 year old girls are raped by MEN (or males who pretend to be) than otherwise.

Only in pervert fantasy land, not in reality. And "litt" is spelled "little."

any bigotted words for them?

"Bigotted" is spelled ""bigoted."

Lara, who really believes the old adage about homophobes really being gay.

Again, only in pervert fantasy land. And I certainly wouldn't call the lifestyle "gay." Pathetic is more like it.

[LaraCroft]

Your prejudice is astonishing.

I bet you are christain too huh? How proud Jesus must be of you and your hatred.

[LaraCroft]

Although the sexual abuse of children has been documented throughout history, what has varied considerably has been society's willingness to recognize it as a problem.

According to the US Advisory Board of Child Abuse and Neglect, 1 in 3 girls will be sexually abused, and 1 in 7 boys will be. There are no statistics as to how many of the men doing the abusing (well, 3-7% of the abusers are women) are homosexual. However, most of the boys molested are done so by heterosexual men, usually a father or relative.

Your ignorance is not as astonishing as your bigotry, and hatred. I am so glad I don't have to spend time around people like you in my life.

[T Minus Four]

You know, after further thought on this subject, I realize what really bothers me about it. If gays want to concealed-carry, why the hell don't they just shut up and do it? Why is it necessary to form a group with a cutesy name and get media attention? Why does it seem that everything gays do has to be about being gay? How exhausting that must be!

T

[Tax-chick]

We all know that guns prevent crime! That was the point of the article.

Xy

[cruiserman]

Good way to pick up "chicks", I guess :).

[freedumb2003]

All in all, I tend to agree.

Being gay is all about sexual activity and centers around gayness -- it's irritating and it bugs the h*ll out of me that we spend more on the only disease that is 99% lifestyle - AIDS -- than on any other disease. And this is for less than 3% of the population (by now anyone on this forum know that "10%" number is nonsense). If hey had put that $ towards cancer or MD or a disease that is NOT invited in, we would probably be closer or in posession of a cure.

It is also about being males who are feminine (thus the cutesy crap). They don't want to be males? Fine -- go to Sweden and have the damn thing cut off.

The best example of the gay lifestyle self-absorbtion, look at the show "Ellen." In its earlier incarnation, it was pretty funny -- I remember there one episode about one of the characters owning a car called the "Rapture" (a great takeoff on Saturn). It was like a religion and the whole thing was funny as all get out. THEN she came out of the closet. Every single show after that dealt with homosexuality and there wasn't a funny line in sight. This lasted for a couple of seasons and the material never wavered from the "jeez I'm defined by my gayness" story line. After the show was cancelled for not being funny anymore, Ellen had the gall to say it was because she was gay -- there was no way she could see that her show wasn't funny anymore.

As a final shot, isn't it funny that the death knoll for any career in "Liberal" Hollywood is to come out of the closet? Heard from Anne Heche lately? Ellen? Rosie? Ian McKellan waited until he as 60 and had LOTR locked up before he came out -- think his career has legs after that? Damn hypocrites one and all.

[T Minus Four]

But on the other hand, you can't watch prime time TV any more without being inundated by gay characters. Every show has to have a token gay, and then there are shows like Will and Grace in which practically everyone is gay. I guess if you are an actor who is gay and you come out, your career is doomed. But if you merely play a gay, you will be very successful.

I read a statistic a year or so ago that really threw me. It stated that the percentage of the population that is gay is roughly equal to the percentage of the population that is Mormon (I don't remember the number, 3%, 5%, 8%, whatever). How many Mormon characters do you see on sitcoms?

[Wondervixen]

Gays that keep their damn moths shut and who don't go trying to inform every living human being what their sexual preferences are (like it's anyone elses business or as if they give Hitlery Rodham Klintoon's left testicle) do NOT get bashed!!!

[Wondervixen]

Mouths, even