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Liberty's Court of Last Resort: Ashcroft Scores Another Victory Over the Constitution
Village Voice ^ | January 24th, 2003 5:00 PM | Nat Hentoff

Posted on 01/28/2003 2:22:11 PM PST by dead

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1 posted on 01/28/2003 2:22:11 PM PST by dead
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To: dead
Although I find it extremely difficult to be sympathetic to an American caught in Taliban gang colors, I think it would be beneficial for the Administration to grant some limited access to Hamadi by lawyers so this issue can be put to rest.
2 posted on 01/28/2003 2:25:19 PM PST by dirtboy
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To: dead
All well and good but Hamdi was picked up in Afghanistan on the battlefield,bearing arms against the US.

Hentoff is a solid guy, IMO, but making Hamdi a cause celebre is not going to make waves in the USA.
3 posted on 01/28/2003 2:25:20 PM PST by swarthyguy
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To: dead
Memo to Nat: When you start paying attention to the Second Amendment for a change, I'll start paying more attention to what you have to say.


4 posted on 01/28/2003 2:26:23 PM PST by Joe Brower (http://www.joebrower.com/)
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To: dead
I hope the liberals are rethinking their silence when an arm of a the Internal Revenue Service burned 82 men, women, and children to death a decade ago.

I would like to agree with Mssr.Hentoff, but the left has no credibility on this issue and thus I have little choice but to trust Ashcroft has his reason for keeping this guy locked up.
5 posted on 01/28/2003 2:27:33 PM PST by JohnGalt
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To: swarthyguy
I agree completely. This is not the case for those of us who are concerned with Bush and Ashcroft's conduct concerning the Constitution post 9/11 to defend. Hamdi is a prisoner of war because he was picked up fighting in an enemy uniform against Americans in a war zone. Trying POWs would set a horrible precedent in International law.
6 posted on 01/28/2003 2:28:35 PM PST by Sparta (Statism is a mental illness)
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To: Sparta
Trying POWs would set a horrible precedent in International law.

I think that since the POW in question is an American citizen, that the Administration should be required to present their evidence of Hamadi's complicity with the Taliban and Hamadi's attorneys should have the opportunity to challenge that evidence. Then, if the evidence is sufficient that he was, indeed, fighting with the Taliban, toss him in the brig and don't open it until the war on terror is over.

7 posted on 01/28/2003 2:34:55 PM PST by dirtboy
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To: Joe Brower

Gun briefs merely stating the obvious

Attorney General John Ashcroft has set off another political brushfire, this time among the politically correct anti-gun crowd. His offense was to order the Justice Department to state the obvious in a pair of briefs filed with the U.S. Supreme Court. The Second Amendment, the department says in its briefs, protects an individual right to “keep and bear arms,” not a state right. This supposedly marks a “radical reinterpretation” of the Constitution, but that would come as a great surprise to the Founders and to courts of roughly the first 150 years of the nation’s existence. The Bill of Rights, of which the Second Amendment of course is a part, was created explicitly because many of the founding generation were concerned that Madison’s Constitution provided no safeguard against federal accumulation of power. The Bill of Rights is almost entirely focused on the protection of individual rights, with the exception of the Tenth Amendment, which reserves to the states and “to the people” those powers not explicitly conferred upon the federal government. In recent years, courts and bureaucrats have taken the position that states have the right to strictly regulate guns, even to the point of for all practical purposes prohibiting ownership of common weapons. But this, as even noted liberal civil libertarians like Nat Hentoff note, is contrary to the body of the Bill of Rights. The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, Hentoff and numerous others argue, is crafted similarly to other individual rights, such as the Fourth Amendment’s right against unreasonable search and seizure, the First Amendment right to peaceably assemble and so on. One could argue that the Second Amendment right to bear arms provides the individual with the ability to protect his other individual rights against the state — by force if necessary. The Justice Department does not argue that Second Amendment rights are without limitation. Just as one may not yell “Fire!” in a crowded theater, it is reasonable, for example, to prohibit firearms inside courthouses. As UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh notes in a recent Wall Street Journal essay, if the Supreme Court accepts the Justice Department’s view, then it will have the effect of making it easier to enact modest, sensible regulations of guns. “Today,” he writes, “many proposals, such as gun registration, are opposed largely because of the quite reasonable fear that they’ll lead to ... gun prohibition.” He may be right. More important, however, the Founders were right. Unless the Second Amendment is repealed, the American people clearly have an individual right to bear arms.

Hentoff's pro-Second Amendment and pro-life.

8 posted on 01/28/2003 2:36:57 PM PST by Sparta (Statism is a mental illness)
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To: dirtboy

I think that since the POW in question is an American citizen, that the Administration should be required to present their evidence of Hamadi's complicity with the Taliban and Hamadi's attorneys should have the opportunity to challenge that evidence.

That sounds like treason. If he should be charged with anything, it should be treason. If treason can't be proved, then he should be treated as a POW.

9 posted on 01/28/2003 2:39:32 PM PST by Sparta (Statism is a mental illness)
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To: dirtboy
Proof? He was in Jihadistan bearing arms and studying the koran(!). What more proof is required?
10 posted on 01/28/2003 2:43:19 PM PST by swarthyguy
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To: Sparta
If he should be charged with anything, it should be treason. If treason can't be proved, then he should be treated as a POW.

I think the point is that there should be some kind of due process where the Administration must present the facts that an American citizen had taken up arms against this country, and the citizen in question has the ability to challenge the facts. Otherwise, the precedent is set for an Administration (not necessarily this one) to declare just about ANYONE an enemy combatant, whether or not they actually are, and they have no ability to defend themselves under the Constitution.

If the Administration makes it case, then hose the sumbitch.

11 posted on 01/28/2003 2:44:22 PM PST by dirtboy
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To: JohnGalt
Hentoff was all over Reno and Clinton for both Waco and the Elian Gonzalez raid and supported the impeachment of both of them.

“It would be hard to find any president who has damaged the Constitution in so many different ways.”
- Nat Hentoff on Bill Clinton


12 posted on 01/28/2003 2:46:10 PM PST by dead
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To: swarthyguy
Proof? He was in Jihadistan bearing arms and studying the koran(!). What more proof is required?

The point is, in any other situation, the government must present its case that a citizen engaged in wrongdoing, and the citizen has the right to challenge accusers and rebut evidence. It's called due process. Otherwise, any President would gain the power to declare someone an enemy combatant and there would be no recourse, no review for that person. Are you really sure you want such a precedent set?

Like I've said, have a hearing, have both sides present their case, and if the government makes its case, may the citizen in question wish he had died on the battlefield...

13 posted on 01/28/2003 2:46:54 PM PST by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
grant some limited access to Hamadi by lawyers so this issue can be put to rest.

POW's don't get lawyers.

And we don't litigate battlefield actions.

14 posted on 01/28/2003 2:50:13 PM PST by angkor
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To: dirtboy
I guess the basic difference between your viewpoint and mine is you choose to see this as a legal matter, a criminal act....I see it as an act of war, treason by this kid and as such, all he deserves are 3 squares.

My weak point is the WoT could extend a generation and that's where i do feel a little squeamish about this.

In my defense, he's of Saudi origin so maybe he has some good stuff to give to the USG.
15 posted on 01/28/2003 2:50:33 PM PST by swarthyguy
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To: dirtboy
I agree the enemy combantant designation must be clarified or its got to go. However, my problem with giving Hamdi a hearing is that you can not have criminal procedings against a prisoner of war. It is a violation of the Geneva Convention.

I don't think any Al-Qaeda types in the US should recieve enemy combatant status. They must be dealt with according to the Constitution, a trial by a jury of American citizens.

Your idea that Bush has to prove that Hamdi is a POW is a good one, but I'm not sure its legal under International law.
16 posted on 01/28/2003 2:50:39 PM PST by Sparta (Never Again)
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To: swarthyguy
Q - How do you know that?

A - The government says so.

The government says a lot of things. Hamdi is an American citizen, and until the executive branch can prove their case, he should be entitled to a fair (even if closed) hearing.

Then hang him.

17 posted on 01/28/2003 2:50:52 PM PST by dead
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To: Sparta
Well I'll be darned! I am happy to stand corrected!

Thanks, and stay safe,


18 posted on 01/28/2003 2:51:18 PM PST by Joe Brower (http://www.joebrower.com/)
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To: angkor
Subjecting a POW to civilian or military legal procedings is a violation of the Geneva Convention. The only exception is after a war and only for war crimes.
19 posted on 01/28/2003 2:52:19 PM PST by Sparta (Statism is a mental illness)
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To: swarthyguy
War on Terror

War on Drugs

War on Poverty

War on Cancer

20 posted on 01/28/2003 2:55:10 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Hope is a good breakfast, but it is a bad supper. - Francis Bacon)
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