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How to Buy a Gun
Every Thought Captive ^ | 2002 | A.K. Fortyseven

Posted on 01/30/2003 4:49:20 AM PST by condi2008

In order to buy a gun one must first be persuaded that gun ownership is both reasonable and responsible. Let us then first establish that Matthew 5:38,39 does not mean that, if someone breaks into your home intending to harm your family, you must submissively point the way to your children's playroom as you sheath the criminal's knife with your belly. Jesus here explains to us that God allows no room for personal vengeance. Leave that to the Lord and the temporal responsibility for punishing evil doers to the civil magistrate (Romans 13:4).

God immutable says, "If the thief is caught while breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account. But if the sun has risen on him, there will be bloodguiltiness on his account. He shall surely make restitution; if he owns nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft" (Exodus 22:2,3). In other words if you, unable to discern his intentions, kill a night-time home invader, you bear no guilt before God for his death.

Even if you are with me thus far, you may still be asking, "But why a gun?" In case you haven't noticed, not only do we have military foes abroad but there are plenty of fiends domestic: thugs across town, thieves down the road, and murderers at the rest area by the interstate (and possibly a terrorist cell downstate). If one is to defend himself and his family against the black hats, it is best to have the most practical and efficient means for doing so at your disposal. For an Army Ranger that might be a grenade launcher. For an individual in Jesus' day it was a sword. Since the "weapons of our warfare are not carnal" (II Corinthians 10:4), why else would Christ have commanded His disciples to barter their cloaks for swords (Luke 22:36) if not for self-defense? For us civilians, the most practical and efficient means is a personal firearm.

By the way, if you insist on statistical evidence for the benefits of gun ownership, I encourage you to find a copy of Dr. John Lott's book More Guns, Less Crime or any number of articles by him available on the internet. The gun-control crowd has certainly tried to discredit his findings, but the best they have been able to offer is "if it really is the case that the results aren't good then he's really peddling a false message."

Let us consider how to go about purchasing a firearm. First decide what you need. Looking for something suited to home defense? A 12-gauge shotgun with a short barrel will do nicely. A shotgun is preferable because if it is aimed in the general direction of the criminal you will hit your target. Actually just racking a pump-action shotgun might be enough to scare him away. Mossberg and Remington offer shotguns designed specifically for home defense (the HS 410 and the 870 Home Defense models respectively) as do other manufacturers.

Handguns are a little more particular (as far as the need to aim carefully goes), but if you intend to keep your firearm with you, let's face it, the greeter at Stuff Mart might be a wee bit intimidated if you walk in toting a 12-gauge. There are many options available to you so I am just going to offer some general guidance. Handguns are available as revolvers and semi-automatics. I prefer a semi-automatic simply because in my humble, unprofessional opinion they are marginally safer. I say marginally only because I do not consider firearms unsafe when handled, maintained, and stored properly. Frankly, the tiller in my shed causes me more concern than my pistol does.

Ladies might consider a .38-caliber revolver (such as the fairly compact Smith & Wesson model 60 or its cousin the Lady Smith) or 9mm semi-automatic. As for the gentlemen, the aforementioned will do, but I encourage you to think about something with more stopping power such as a .40- or .45-caliber semi-automatic. Glocks are nice if you have no qualms about the safety being part of the trigger mechanism. My pistol, however, has a safety that decocks the hammer, disengages the trigger, and blocks the firing pin. Having children around, those are features that I appreciate. Those on a tight budget might consider various Ruger models. If you have more cash to spend, take a look at Beretta, H&K, SIG Arms, and Walther models to name a few. There are also the ever-popular Colt 1911 and Browning Hi-Power.

Once you have decided between a shotgun and a handgun (not that you can't have both), it is time to go shopping. Visit a gun shop and handle as many different guns as you can. Take note of which ones feel most comfortable in your hands and which ones have easily disengaged safeties and engaged slides and magazines. Gun shows are wonderful places to see and handle lots of guns at one time. Whether you are at a shop or a show, however, do not buy anything there (unless you buy from a private individual at the show). Better to buy from a friend or neighbor, than to have to go through the background-check rigmarole and risk losing your weapon should Uncle Sam come asking for it. Also, if you know a gun enthusiast, ask if he or she will take you out shooting so you can get a better feel for a few different guns before you buy.

My final suggestions are 1) familiarize yourself with state and federal laws governing the bearing of arms and their use in self-defense. Constitutional guarantee notwithstanding, laws vary considerably from state to state. The National Rifle Association is a good source for such information. 2) Don't obtain a concealed-carry permit. I am not encouraging you to break the law; I am saying there are legal ways to at least transport firearms (dependent upon your state of residence). Look up the Firearm Owner's Protection Act (18 USC §926A). 3) Practice as often as possible once you obtain the gun. The best gun available will not be of much benefit if you aren't prepared to use it in the tension-filled moments of an assault.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: banglist; copernicus5
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We are looking into "Home Protection" and came across this in our research. We expect that there are some current opinions amongst the FReepers that could assist us in our decision, as well.
1 posted on 01/30/2003 4:49:20 AM PST by condi2008
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To: condi2008
Don't obtain a concealed-carry permit

Here in CT you MUST have a CCW in order to purchase a handgun. There are no exceptions here. Long guns, i.e. shot gun, rifle, can be purchased w/o a CCW however, there's a 2 week waiting period.Most ant-gun people I know say that the Police will come to their aid, however these very same people have fire extinquishers in their home....hmmm, shouldn't they just call the Fire Dept. to come to their aid then?

2 posted on 01/30/2003 4:59:27 AM PST by Puppage
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To: condi2008
Don't obtain a concealed-carry permit.

The article isn't arriving at this suggestion out of some deep-seated Constitutional conviction, so I don't know where this is coming from. Why deny yourself the opportunity to legally carry for personal defense unless you are trying to make a Constitutional point? Seems kind of silly. Unless you are the ultimate stealth gun owner, you're probably on several "lists" already, so it can't be concern over "registration".

3 posted on 01/30/2003 5:04:29 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: condi2008
Are you considering buying a firearm for the first time? Primarily for defense? Not sure what your goal is from your post, but keep in mind several things.
  1. The most single critical factor in a defensive firearm is reliability. It should fire every time the trigger is pulled and conversely it should never fire unless the trigger is pulled no matter what. Some guns will fire when they're dropped just right.
  2. A close second is usability. It should not be too complicated with multiple safeties, selectors, etc. Going along with this it should not be so powerful that the recoil causes you to flinch or hurts your shoulder or causes you to take a long time getting your second shot.
  3. Cost is a factor, but consider what you're buying may save your life (or not if it fails either due to inherent flaws or the fact that you forgot to work the proper lever at the right time) you should not make this a major factor.
My personal preference for people puying a defensive gun for the first time is a revolver. They have the advantage of simplicity of operation. I like the Taurus titanium .357. It's light, very corrosion resistant, and you can fire .357 or if the recoil is too much .38. It's also relatively inexpensive. I have one for my carry gun. I am somewhat of a gun entheusiast, and my home defense weapon is currently an Uzi. It cost $2800 plus another $200 for the federal transfer tax, but I feel that it is just about right for home defense. Not too powerful, not too big, but plenty of firepower and not complicated at all to work. Even my wife doesn't flinch when she fires it.
4 posted on 01/30/2003 5:04:31 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: bang_list
bang
5 posted on 01/30/2003 5:04:48 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: condi2008
Don't buy a small caliper gun ( 22,25,32,etc.). You want something that has stopping power. A S&W 380 semi-automatic is good. It is small, light weight but it will stop someone.
6 posted on 01/30/2003 5:05:07 AM PST by Conservative Kay
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To: Conservative Kay
A S&W 380 semi-automatic is good. It is small, light weight but it will stop someone.

Oh, boy. You've stirred the caliber war hornets nest up now. I do carry a .380 regularly (.45 ACP occasionally), but expect the 9mm and .45 ACP contingents to soon show up here to deride the .380 as a mousegun.

7 posted on 01/30/2003 5:09:31 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: from occupied ga
We have hunting firearms, but we are indeed considering buying a home defense weapon for the first time.
8 posted on 01/30/2003 5:17:12 AM PST by condi2008 (Pro Libertate)
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To: RogueIsland; Lion Den Dan; AAABEST; Joe Brower; Squantos; harpseal
Oh, boy. You've stirred the caliber war hornets nest up now. I do carry a .380 regularly (.45 ACP occasionally), but expect the 9mm and .45 ACP contingents to soon show up here to deride the .380 as a mousegun.

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ the hornets are flying.

9 posted on 01/30/2003 5:17:21 AM PST by SLB
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To: from occupied ga
Beautiful -- There is great value in the simplicity of a wheelgun, and a good reason they remain popular after so many years.

I'm a firm believer that a person's first firearm should be a good revolver and a shotgun. (oh- that's two, isn't it?)

If you scored high in spatial reasoning and mechanical aptititude, get that fancy autoloader you've been drooling over in the magazines -- just be sure you get to know it real good before you learn to depend on it.

10 posted on 01/30/2003 5:19:32 AM PST by Crowcreek
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To: Puppage
...however these very same people have fire extinquishers in their home....hmmm, shouldn't they just call the Fire Dept. to come to their aid then?

That is really good. And absolutley true.

Thanks and bump

11 posted on 01/30/2003 5:20:41 AM PST by 2timothy3.16
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To: condi2008
The following assumes that we're talking about in-home defensive situations, not concealed carry outside of the home:

Pointing a shotgun at typical in-the-house engagement ranges 'in the general direction of the intruder' pretty well guarantees a miss. The shot pattern will have only expanded to a few inches in the house by the time it gets to the target. Other than that, shotguns are a pretty good choice. Whatever weapon is chosen, it should be practised until you *know* that you can efficiently handle it when you have been awakened from a dead sleep at 2:00 AM and you are shaking like a leaf. Simple and reliable is better.

I disagree that a different and smaller caliber should be selected for the lady of the house. If stopping power is a criteria for selecting the husband's defensive firearm, it should be for the wife's, as well. The situation doesn't change just because it's her that is doing the shooting. In handguns, get something simple to operate (middle of the night shaking like a leaf factor) and quite powerful, like a revolver in .357 Magnum. Go to the range with her, and start her out with .38 loads if necessary and work up to heavyweight .357 loads. I have taught several women to shoot and they are comfortable with the recoil- it really isn't that bad.

Another thing to be aware of, is the noise of a gunshot in a house. It will be much louder than expected. If you are lucky enough to live in a rural area where you can get away with it, you might consider finding some property in a safe area with a solid backstop for the fired rounds, and an available derelict building where you can pop a few rounds off to experience the noise and get used to it. No more than a few, it *will* damage your hearing.
12 posted on 01/30/2003 5:21:25 AM PST by Riley
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To: from occupied ga
The most single critical factor in a defensive firearm is reliability. It should fire every time the trigger is pulled and conversely it should never fire unless the trigger is pulled no matter what

Then their first gun should be a ruger double action revolver. Works like a champ :)

13 posted on 01/30/2003 5:21:40 AM PST by Centurion2000 (The meek shall inherit the Earth. The stars belong to the bold.)
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To: Crowcreek
autoloader ... just be sure you get to know it real good before you learn to depend on it.

This needs repeating so I'll repeat it

If you buy an autoloader just be sure you get to know it real good before you learn to depend on it

You should be able to work it in your sleep or under extreme stress or wounded etc.

14 posted on 01/30/2003 5:23:57 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: condi2008
My house gun is a Remington 870, #4 buckshot with a HeviShot Modified choke........The wife prefers a Security Six .357 with a 5 3/8" Magported barrel and 125 grain Gold-Dot's
Outside carry is a Kimber .45.....with 158 grain Golden Sabers........and 2 back-up clips......
In ND we really don't have much varmit problems, but you can never know with everything that is going on.
15 posted on 01/30/2003 5:24:50 AM PST by Bodacious
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To: Crowcreek
If you scored high in spatial reasoning and mechanical aptititude, get that fancy autoloader you've been drooling over in the magazines -- just be sure you get to know it real good before you learn to depend on it.

Two of my autos have never had a malfunction in many thousands of rounds. Yet I've seen a revolver that routinely bound up after five rounds. Lesson: shoot the heck out of any gun you plan to stake your life on. Regardless of action type, never just assume it is reliable. (BTW, I do agree that on average revolvers are more reliable than autos. I've found autos ranging from jamomatic to flawless and everything in between).

16 posted on 01/30/2003 5:27:24 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: 2timothy3.16
Here the average police responce could be up to 30 minutes, depending on weather and where in the county the duty deputy is........by all means call the calvary, but be prepared to defend yourself until then........
17 posted on 01/30/2003 5:27:29 AM PST by Bodacious
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To: Centurion2000
Then their first gun should be a ruger double action revolver. Works like a champ :)

This is a good choice, likewise Taurus I prefer taurus, but this is a personal thing.

I suggest that in the realm of reliability and usability, battlefield experience is probably the most severe test of a firearm. Military type firearms are usually engineered so that even the dimmer lights can work them (My translation of the AK-47 manual stresses that ammunition is not to be thrown in fires) They have proven reliability , and adequate stopping power. My current Uzi fits all of my criteria of an ideal home defense weapon except one (cost).

18 posted on 01/30/2003 5:31:06 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: Riley
nother thing to be aware of, is the noise of a gunshot in a house. It will be much louder than expected.

Some recent research has suggested that in a high-stress situation, perceptual narrowing usually occurs and the brain "shuts down" that kind of input. Many individuals in shootings report that they never even heard their own shots.

Never seen that particular elephant myself, so your mileage may vary. In any event, take it into account before risking your upper frequency hearing on that little experiment. (I wouldn't suggest it with a ported Magnum, certainly),

19 posted on 01/30/2003 5:31:36 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: RogueIsland
Yup, a big exception to every rule.... The first .357 I ever bought new (S&W L-frame) was a jamma-matic. Years later, I read in an old magazine that Smith and Wesson had recalled it!

It worked pretty good when I got it back -- but I'd never trust that sucka . . . .

20 posted on 01/30/2003 5:35:13 AM PST by Crowcreek
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To: RogueIsland
<<Some recent research has suggested that in a high-stress situation, perceptual narrowing usually occurs and the brain "shuts down" that kind of input. Many individuals in shootings report that they never even heard their own shots.

Never seen that particular elephant myself, so your mileage may vary. In any event, take it into account before risking your upper frequency hearing on that little experiment. (I wouldn't suggest it with a ported Magnum, certainly),
<<

Good things to consider. I have heard close range gunfire in an enclosed environment, and the noise is almost a physical slap. I have some blown hearing already, but my high-freq is still good enough that neighborhood cats walking through the backyard actually wake me up.

Interesting research- I'll look into it.
21 posted on 01/30/2003 5:41:10 AM PST by Riley
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To: SLB
There's an old rule about calibers: The best one is the one you have on you.

We all have our favorites, but when it comes to concealed carry, there are many factors to be considered to determine what is optimal, and as those conditions change, so do the selection. For example, as much as I like my Sig P229 in .40 S&W, I'm not going to carry that here in Florida in the summer when wearing anything heavier than shorts and a tank-top will quickly reduce one to a puddle of perspiration. During the winter, though, my Sig goes everywhere I do, no problem.

With the developments in ammunition over the last decade, just about anything, even a .22lr (check out CCI's "Velocitor"), will work when you quickly dump the entire magazine into the goblin at five yards. At the very least, it will screw up the BG long enough for you to beat a hasty retreat!


22 posted on 01/30/2003 5:42:50 AM PST by Joe Brower (http://www.joebrower.com/)
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To: Bodacious
"by all means call the calvary, but be prepared to defend yourself until then....."

Call 911 while you reload!

23 posted on 01/30/2003 5:50:39 AM PST by lawdude
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To: RogueIsland; Riley
Many individuals in shootings report that they never even heard their own shots.

I can vouch for this. I shot my first deer from an enclosed tree stand, without hearing protection. Ruger M-77 in .308. Should have reverberated and echoed like anything.

I never heard a thing. So it probably would be about the same inside a house . . .

24 posted on 01/30/2003 5:51:17 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . bonus: you don't have to field dress anything. :-))
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To: Puppage
<<Most ant-gun people I know say that the Police will come to their aid, however these very same people have fire extinquishers in their home....hmmm, shouldn't they just call the Fire Dept. to come to their aid then?
<<

That is brilliantly stated. I plan to use that the next time I get into an argument with a mush-head anti.
Even *THEY* ought to understand that.
25 posted on 01/30/2003 5:52:09 AM PST by Riley
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To: RogueIsland; Conservative Kay
expect the 9mm and .45 ACP contingents to soon show up here to deride the .380 as a mousegun.

What about the S&W angle? Last I knew, no self respecting conservative would buy an S&W.

26 posted on 01/30/2003 5:52:34 AM PST by ProudGOP
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To: condi2008; SLB
My advice is to go to a gun range which rents guns and try a number of different calibers and styles. Then one makes one best judgement as to what one can afford and what the suitablity is for the intended use. If concealed carry on one's person is not one of the requirements then larger framed guns might well merit more consideration. In general one should purchase a gun of a make model and type that one can shoot comfortably and accurately. Caliber selection should be based on what one can accurately shoot. In general by choosing .380 or above one has given oneself a higher probability of stopping an assault with one shot than if one chooses a smaller caliber round. There are many opinions about what is the best caliber for stopping an individual with one shot. Personally I think the .45acp gives the best overall performance this way although the .357 magnum may be as good or better.

A revolver is probably the simplest sidearm to operate point and click and the job is done. A semi-automatic has the advantage of usually more shots and quicker to reload. Although some revolvers have eight or nine shots these days, some semi-autos have up to 17 in the magazine.

Just remember a .22LR slug in the brain of an assailant will do a whole lot more to stop said assailant than a .44 magnum bullet in the wall.

Another consideration is the cost of practice ammunition. A .357 magnum allows one to use relatively inexpensive .38 spl ammunition rather than the more expensive .357 ammunition. These considerations very much affect such calibers as .40 S&W, .357 Sig etc. For full bore defensive sidearms the .45acp and the 9mm Parabellum round seem to have the most relatively low cost ammunition available.

What do I carry usually? The answer for me usually is a ten shot magazine .45 acp. I have also at times carried a 9mm, a ,38spl, a .357 magnum, and some other sidearms.

27 posted on 01/30/2003 5:56:13 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: from occupied ga
"ammunition is not to be thrown in fires"

LOL- That would make a good 'Surgeon General's Warning" for ammo boxes!

Your UZI sounds like a potent package -- lighter than a shotgun, with more range. But you can't hunt birds with it! (Can you?)

28 posted on 01/30/2003 5:56:58 AM PST by Crowcreek
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To: RogueIsland
I took my little Keltec 9MM to a range and fired three boxes of shells through it, and experienced a consistent "nosedive" jam when the clip was down to four rounds.
I bought a couple of new magazines and haven't had a jam since. Its size makes it a great little carry piece.
For under the seat in a vehicle, the new Keltec SU-16 would make a great little defense rifle, if it is reliable. It uses standard M16/AR15 mags (.223 cal), and folds in half for storage. The forestock folds out to become a bipod, and there's a slot for an exra mag in the shoulder stock.
29 posted on 01/30/2003 5:58:58 AM PST by Marauder
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To: condi2008
Don't obtain a concealed-carry permit

Do get your permit if your state allows it. If not move to where you can carry a sidearm.

I don't leave home without mine.

30 posted on 01/30/2003 5:59:13 AM PST by WhirlwindAttack (run hitlery run, vote from the rooftops in 2004...honey i'm buying a .50 cal with the tax refund.)
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To: Crowcreek
But you can't hunt birds with it! (Can you?)

I never tried. Legally in GA you're not supposed to use any full auto weapon for hunting, but with the coyotes getting more numerous ... :-)

31 posted on 01/30/2003 6:00:20 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: ProudGOP
I'll turn in my S&W .40 right after I gain the label "conservative activist". Until then, it remains snuggled in my shoulder holster at body temp.
32 posted on 01/30/2003 6:01:47 AM PST by JoeSixPack1 (BRASS - Breath, Release, Aim, Sight, Squeeze)
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To: RogueIsland
See my 27 I have never ever derided the .380 as a mouse gun. I personally prefer to carry a .45acp but to each thier own.
33 posted on 01/30/2003 6:02:32 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Riley
Thanks. It is also great to use with people who are totally against the idea of armingpilots. They say "they're too busy flying the plane." And, I say well then WHT are there fire extinquishers in the cockpit? Surely id a fire breaks out..the pilots will be too busy flying to do anything about it. Then, ya hear the crickets during their silence. LOL
34 posted on 01/30/2003 6:03:36 AM PST by Puppage
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To: RogueIsland
Gee, I don't know about that. The neatest murder I ever saw was done with a .25 auto with one shot, 15 foot range by a very angry wife. Husband was reported to have said, "I'm hurt real bad", then sat down on couch and died.

I wanted to hire her to teach marksmanship but we had to charge her with murder.
35 posted on 01/30/2003 6:03:44 AM PST by Old Mountain man
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To: *bang_list
BANG!
36 posted on 01/30/2003 6:05:41 AM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: Puppage
.......however these very same people have fire extinquishers in their home....hmmm, shouldn't they just call the Fire Dept. to come to their aid then?

Well Said!
A great point!

As far as all 'round home defense, I like the 'ol tried and true 12 ga. shotgun

37 posted on 01/30/2003 6:06:28 AM PST by Fiddlstix (Tag Line Service Center: Get your Tag Lines Here! Wholesale! (Cheaper by the Dozen!) Inquire Within)
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To: from occupied ga
Uzi is cool and I respect your opinion. Here's the problem...the government knows you have it because of the Class III BATF. A shotgun they don't know about. I'd love to have some of the Class III weapons but my distrust of Hillary and her ilk someday getting a list of gun owners prevents me from doing so.

for me its a 12 gauge full size and I have a .410 with a short barrel and a pistol grip. It's handy and it fits in a bug-out bag along with the MREs and first aid kit.

38 posted on 01/30/2003 6:09:07 AM PST by Cicero5
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To: Fiddlstix
Mister 12ga. is a good friend, too.
39 posted on 01/30/2003 6:11:12 AM PST by Puppage
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To: from occupied ga
Coyotes!!? Can you hit a coyote with an UZI?

How accurate is it in slow fire -- ballpark figure, and try to be fairly honest here . . .

40 posted on 01/30/2003 6:13:16 AM PST by Crowcreek
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To: Cicero5
Here's the problem...the government knows you have it because of the Class III BATF

You are absolutely correct, but this isn't the first class III I have and I figure I'm already on all of their lists anyway. The ma deuce probably put me somewhere near the top of the hit list a long time ago :-(

41 posted on 01/30/2003 6:16:58 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: Crowcreek
Coyotes!!? Can you hit a coyote with an UZI?

This would imply that I would do something as blatantly illegal as shooting out the window at a coyote on my lawn at night. I would certaintly never consider admittting to doing something like that :-)

Kidding aside, the Uzi on single fire is reasonably accurate to 50 yards which is the max distance I've fired it at silhouette targets. I can usually keep it in the 6 or higher, and almost always in the black at 50 yards. Of course at indoor distances accuracy isn't a problem

42 posted on 01/30/2003 6:30:25 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: condi2008
One of the problems I have with this article is the statement:

Actually just racking a pump-action shotgun might be enough to scare him away.

Getting ready to confront a home invader is not the time to chamber a round. I notice they never seem to mention doing this with any other gun. It must be something they saw in a movie.

The next thing I noticed was this:

Don't obtain a concealed-carry permit.

The goal of every person who fought for a Concealed Weapons license is a "Vermont Law". By increasing our numbers, that goal becomes closer. If this writer is so frightened about being on a list, they probably don't support any gun group.

43 posted on 01/30/2003 6:34:21 AM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: Shooter 2.5
We don't agree on much, so I though that when we did agree wholeheartedly on something I'd let you know

Getting ready to confront a home invader is not the time to chamber a round. I notice they never seem to mention doing this with any other gun. It must be something they saw in a movie

I agree and

The goal of every person who fought for a Concealed Weapons license is a "Vermont Law". By increasing our numbers, that goal becomes closer. If this writer is so frightened about being on a list, they probably don't support any gun group.

If you're going to carry you ought to do it legally. It avoids all sorts of legal problems.

44 posted on 01/30/2003 6:38:32 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: Cicero5
Some people will bury their guns at the first sign of trouble and others will have the Gonzales "Come and Take It" Flag hanging on their front porch.
45 posted on 01/30/2003 6:40:14 AM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: Old Mountain man
It's quite true that folks HAVE been killed by .25 auto as well as .22 short and other less than impressive calibers. But overall the statistics aren't good . . .

My husband is the first aid officer for his plant (somebody found out that he was a BSA troop leader and took the first aid course). One morning one of the guys from the back of the plant came strolling in with a .25 bullet lodged under the skin of his skull right between the eyes. He said that his common-law wife had had a quarrel with him and shot him the night before. Hubby referred him on to the industrial clinic; he came back in about an hour with a bandaid over the spot where they cut it out.

He went home after work and threw her out.

There is a postscript . . . about six months later we heard through the grapevine that this rather short-tempered lady had taken up with another man and . . . somewhat predictably . . . had a quarrel with him too. Only this time she used a kitchen knife, and the object of her affections was Tango Uniform before the police got there.

The employee's only comment: "She was a d@mn mean woman, but she sure could cook."

46 posted on 01/30/2003 6:40:28 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . all you can do is try to improve your statistics . . .)
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To: ProudGOP
Blount(UK) owned S&W when they caved into the Clintoons........
Today S&W is 100% U.S. owned and supports the NRA...........
A Trooper II with 3" barrel in .357 is an "awesum" argument stopper...........


47 posted on 01/30/2003 6:44:28 AM PST by Bodacious
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To: Fiddlstix
Handguns are very useful in home defense. They should be used to fight your way to your shotgun. Winchester 1300 stainless marine is my personal favorite.
48 posted on 01/30/2003 6:46:18 AM PST by alaskanfan
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To: from occupied ga
" I can usually keep it in the 6 or higher"

Wow. That sounds a little better than the average 'lawn aerator' . . .

You'd probably be able to hit a running coyote before the average bolt-rifle shooter . . .

49 posted on 01/30/2003 6:48:11 AM PST by Crowcreek
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To: Conservative Kay
Re your # 6

Would 22 long rifle hollow points.... in a Ruger semi...Each tip filled with mercury, do a nice job if four or five of these hit the target in extremely rapid succession?....Kind of a poor man's dum-dum?

I like the 12 gauge pump best but think the latter is a nice (probably illegal)more friendly alternative for a lady.


50 posted on 01/30/2003 6:49:54 AM PST by rmvh
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