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To: Voice in your head
From the "holy" Qur'an:
"[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"


- That describes Islam's continuing objection to Christians and Jews and what your future is if they have control. This passage is the central belief of militant Islamists. There is no getting around it. It makes clear that not only is anyone who does not believe in Islam to be killed or enslaved, but anyone who does not *enforce* Islam on those under and around them is an enemy. -


From the "holy" Qur'an:
"[9.12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist."
"[9.32] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse."


- 9:12 & 9:32 make it clear that simple speech is considered an attack on Islam and to be responded to with force. -


From the "holy" Qur'an:
"[9.33] He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse."


- As the foregoing shows, this is to be done by force. -


From the "holy" Qur'an:
"[9.38] O you who believe! What (excuse) have you that when it is said to you: Go forth in Allah's way, you should incline heavily to earth; are you contented with this world's life instead of the hereafter? But the provision of this world's life compared with the hereafter is but little.
[9.39] If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you, and you will do Him no harm; and Allah has power over all things.
[9.40] If you will not aid him, Allah certainly aided him when those who disbelieved expelled him, he being the second of the two, when they were both in the cave, when he said to his companion: Grieve not, surely Allah is with us. So Allah sent down His tranquillity upon him and strengthened him with hosts which you did not see, and made lowest the word of those who disbelieved; and the word of Allah, that is the highest; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
[9.41] Go forth light and heavy, and strive hard in Allah's way with your property and your persons; this is better for you, if you know."

Shakir Translation (searchable)
http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/
37 posted on 04/24/2004 9:39:24 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Rumble Thee Forth...)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide
One of the biggest problems encountered by non-Arabic speakers, when trying to read the Koran is the confusion that results in translation. The Arabic language is characterized by rhetoric, exaggeration and repetition. Then, on top of that, there are so many variations of words that, if not carefully chosen, meaning is easily changed or distorted. For example, I own a Koran that has a totally different translation of each of the passages that you posted. Here is an example:

What you posted:
“[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.”

What my copy of the Koran says:
(9:29) “Fight against such of those, to whom the Scriptures were given, as believe in neither God nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what God and His apostle have forbidden, and do not embrace the true Faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued.”

Notice how your translation of the passage totally skips over “… to whom the Scriptures were given…” and the other large differences throughout the passage.

The difference in translation is likely the result of different interpretations that result from choosing different words that translate similarly into English. This difference is due to one accounting, or not accounting, for the rhetoric, exaggeration, and repetition that is characteristic of Arabic language and culture. I have been reading “The Arab Mind” which is required reading for all students of Middle Eastern Studies at the JFK Special Warfare School. It is required reading, because it helps special operations soldiers to prepare for dealing with Arab culture. There is an entire chapter on rhetoric, exaggeration, overassertion, and repetition in Arab culture and this is a common theme throughout the book, because of its impact on culture in causing miscommunication between Arabs and, more often, between Arabs and non-Arabs.

Ad naseum posting of Koranic passages that one interprets as hateful or evil or vicious and so on, does nothing more than highlight the shortcomings of our understanding of the religion and the ability of people to interpret the Koran to fit their agenda, because there are other common translations that are totally different.

44 posted on 04/25/2004 8:04:25 AM PDT by Voice in your head ("The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." - Thucydides)
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