Germany joins France, Belgium in blocking NATO planning to protect Turkey

AP | 2/10/03

[kattracks]

BERLIN (AP) -- Germany joined France and Belgium on Monday in blocking the start of NATO military planning to protect Turkey against the threat of an Iraqi missile attack.

"We are joining Belgium and France," Foreign Ministry spokesman Walter Lindner said.

The announcement came after France and Belgium blocked the move at the NATO alliance in Brussels, Belgium.

NATO officials said France formally blocked the move an hour before NATO procedures would have automatically started the military planning at 4 a.m. EST.

At a weekend defense conference in Munich, Defense Minister Peter Struck had still hinted that Germany might be willing to lift its objections.

[Arkie2]

NATO: RIP

[petuniasevan]

The Axis of Weasels is complete.


No protection for the Turks? What a bunch of pious hypocrites in the German government. Where would they be if WE hadn't protected BERLIN from the Soviets in 1949?

Euroweenies show their true colors once again.

[t4texas]

Germany=Moe; France=Shemp; so I guess Belgium must be Larry (I couldn't bring myself to insult Curly by including him in this group!)

[Hoosier-Daddy]

It may be time to reconsider NATO, in that it is well past time for the Europeans to fully take on the expense to defend and protect themselves. The economies of the EU states are strong enough in their own right to be able to afford the costs. We can spend the savings on missile defense and rapid force projection, and let the surrender monkeys take care of themselves. The US no longer needs to subsidize a basic responsibility of nation-states.

[jrlc]

Irrelevant -- just like the UN. We ought to scrap both, or just quit paying the bills and wait until they collapse. Who are the Frogs going to cry to when the ragheads destroy the Eiffel Tower?

[Highest Authority]

Boycott ALL French and German products!!!!!!

[anobjectivist]

buh bye NATO, UN, France, Germany.

[petuniasevan]

[Martyboy1]

Et tu, Brute?

[petuniasevan]

[shezza]

"We've been waiting for you, Belgie!"

[AFPhys]

The war on terrorism is showing just how impotent and irrelevant the methods of the 19th Century are going to be during the 21st Century. The UN, NATO, and even the attempt to form a European Union will be smashed on the shoals of the New World we must lead.

[bullpup]

I'll second that..

To bad this wasn't decided before we got sucked into the Balkans quagmire..

That was a bondoggle that didn't even concern NATO....

Looks like we may lose bothe NATO and the U.N.

With the cost savings we maybe can improve our defenses..and save our soverniegty....

[doosee]

blocking the start of NATO military planning

My guess is that plan is already in place. This is just some bureaucrat chatter.

[bullpup]

I'll second that..

To bad this wasn't decided before we got sucked into the Balkans quagmire..

That was a bondoggle that didn't even concern NATO....

Looks like we may lose bothe NATO and the U.N.

With the cost savings we maybe can improve our defenses..and save our soverniegty....

[UncleSamUSA]

I agree wholeheartedly on an immediate BOYCOTT of all French and German and Russian goods. I'd add Belguim to the list, but can anyone figure out anything actually made in Belguim??

Second NATO is Dead. Kaput. It was formed as an alliance to counter the Commie Warsaw Pact after WWII and to protect the weasels from the Red Army. Now that the Soviet Empire and the Warsaw Pact are no more, NATO has no real purpose.

Clearly, NATO is impotent in the current War on Terror since several memebers of the "alliance" are working in full cahoots with the Terror Makers. So let's face reality and scrap NATO and form a second Atlantic-Mediterranean Alliance against Terror. Let in the Brits, Italians, Spanish, the East European countries and anyone in the region who stands With Us and Against Terror. That would mean bye-bye to Germany, France, Belgium, Luxembourg and anyone else who hinders us.

Third, I dont think any future Secretary of State will ever advise a President of the United States to forestall any foreign policy decision until the UN has acted. That policy of UN-consensus is also, alas, quite dead.

[Cicero]

Defense Minister Peter Struck had still hinted that Germany might be willing to lift its objections.

Too late for that, pretty boy.

[Lion's Cub]

No protection for the Turks?

It isn't just the Turks. No AWACS or patriots that were supposed to come from NATO leaves our troops in Turkey open to pre-emptive attack from Iraq. We probably do have some of those there, but refusing these now (heck, we probably supplied them in the first place), puts our servicepeople at greater risk.

[Lion's Cub]

Speaking of the Balkans, I think we will need those troops. I don't care if Germany and France and Belgium get overrun by islamists.

[ez]

I'm sorry, I thought the purpose of NATO was the common defense of its members states. My mistake...

[meenie]

An interesting development. Whereas and wherefore (legal mumbo-jumbo) we are bona-fide members of NATO and the UN and they both vote against providing support and defense to a member of NATO (Turkey)and to sanction any military action against Iraq, where does this leave us?

In a legal and practical sense, I would say that our membership in these two abominations should be terminated if we have to defend Turkey and prosecute the attack on Iraq ourselves. I would assume a class action suit on behalf of all US citizens would bear this out, and prevent any further support to either of these organizations.

[prairiebreeze]

*but can anyone figure out anything actually made in Belguim??*

chocolates

[petuniasevan]

The irony in all this?

NATO is headquartered in Brussels, BELGIUM

[MadIvan]

I'd add Belguim to the list, but can anyone figure out anything actually made in Belguim??

A lot of good beers.

Regards, Ivan

[Cachelot]

It may be time to reconsider NATO

NATO was formed as a bulwark against the Soviet Union. The threat picture is much different now, and Germany is singularly unworthy of any protection - as are the perverts of Belgium.

Build a new alliance of countries willing to stand for Western values, not Islamism or "Old European" fascism.

[petuniasevan]

Made in Belgium?

Designer clothing
Most fine cut diamonds
Chocolate
Cheese
Chemicals (uh oh)
Machinery (ditto)
metals and metal products (hmmm)

[William McKinley]

Turkey has enacted an article under the NATO treaty that allows them to call an emergency meeting. This article has never previously been enacted. Looks like Turkey is not going to let France, Belgium, and Germany play games with their defense.

[William McKinley]

And waffles.

[Catspaw]

A product of Belgium? I can think of only two: chocolate and beer.

[joyful1]

There is gestapo in their blood. It runs ugly, black, and deep.

[Trust but Verify]

I can't take much more of this insolence from the Weasels of Europe. They are NOT going to get their way about Iraq, and if Britain and the US have to do it themselves, they'll see to it Turkey is defended. But what of the British Prime Minister? Sounds like he might take it on the chin.

[Psalm 73]

Hmmm, 18 European nations are with us, and 3 are not.
I notice the Libs, who cannot address this conundrum, choose to ignore it.
Just like the slogan of the New York Times: "All the News That Fits".

[petuniasevan]

I like your Dr. Strangelove tagline! Timely!

[StriperSniper]

Turkey has enacted an article under the NATO treaty

On FoxNews they said that was Article 4.

That was all I heard, gotta run.

[MeekOneGOP]

France, Germany and Belgium block start of NATO plan

02/10/2003

Associated Press

BRUSSELS, Belgium - France, Germany and Belgium blocked NATO efforts to begin planning for possible Iraqi attacks against Turkey, deepening the rift between those countries and the United States over the Iraq crisis.

The alliance would have automatically begun planning for the defense of Turkey, which fears retaliation from neighboring Iraq in case of an invasion, at 4 a.m. EST if no country protested the move.

France - piqued by what it saw as U.S. attempts to railroad them into a decision - beat the deadline by an hour with its veto, and Belgium backed the move. Germany, which has staunchly opposed military action against Iraq, expressed its support as well. They argued that supporting NATO's efforts would force the crisis into a "logic of war."

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Later Monday, Turkey requested emergency consultations under NATO's mutual defense treaty, believed to be the first time in the 53-year history of the alliance any nation has done so.

By requesting the consultations, Turkey is now expected to ask for the planning to begin. Diplomats say they expect France, Germany and Belgium to drop their protests with the request.

"What is important is that we arrive at a consensus and I'm confident we will," said NATO Secretary-General Lord Robertson.

Turkey is the only NATO member to border Iraq and is a likely launch pad for U.S. strikes on its southern neighbor. There are concerns Iraq could launch missiles against if war breaks out.

While the planning is a procedural move that would only take a few days, it revealed the deep fissures within NATO over dealing with Iraq. France believes U.N. inspectors should be given more time to search Iraq for weapons of mass destruction, while the United States says Saddam Hussein has run out of time.

The United States had lobbied hard for more than three weeks for the alliance to start the military planning, which was backed by all 19 NATO allies except for France, Belgium and Germany. All NATO decisions require unanimous support from the allies.

Even if France relents, the 19 NATO members will have to agree again to approve the actual deployment of defense forces, which would include AWACS early warning planes, Patriot anti-missile batteries and units specialized in handling germ warfare or poison gas attacks.

At a stormy weekend meeting in Munich, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld warned continued delays in responding to Turkey's request were "inexcusable" and risked undermining the alliance's credibility.

Rumsfeld intensified his criticism in an interview Sunday with Italy's La Republica newspaper. "Shameful, for me it's truly shameful," Rumsfeld was quoted as saying. "Turkey is an ally. An ally that is risking everything ... How can you refuse it help?"

Meanwhile, Secretary of State Colin Powell warned that if the next U.N. inspectors' report, which is due Friday, shows Iraq is still not cooperating with inspections, the White House will seek a U.N. resolution authorizing a U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

In France, officials said it was too early to start military preparations while diplomatic efforts continued to avoid war. However, they stressed they would help the Turks if they judged it necessary.

"If Turkey was really under threat, France would be one of the first at its side," French Defense Minister Michele Alliot-Marie told reporters in Munich. "Today we don't feel that threat is there."

In Iraq, the chief U.N. weapons inspectors ended two days of talks saying they had noticed a "positive attitude" in Baghdad toward their efforts of ensuring Iraq is free of banned arms.

The Iraqis gave the chief inspectors more documents to try to clarify lingering questions about 1980s chemical and biological weapons, and said they would establish commissions to search for additional documents and any leftover weapons.

On Sunday, Germany said it would join with France in presenting to the Security Council an initiative to disarm Iraq without war, a proposal bluntly dismissed by U.S. officials. The proposal reportedly includes the deployment of U.N. soldiers and would require Iraqi cooperation.

Early Monday, the French and Belgian foreign ministers spoke and said they still opposed the automatic start of military planning. They believe the planning would convey the message that NATO believes no peaceful solution to the Iraq standoff can be found.

"They had their talks and they will continue to block," said Belgian government spokesman Didier Seeuws of the talks between his foreign minister Louis Michel and his French counterpart Dominique de Villepin.

The planning would lay the groundwork to send surveillance planes, anti-missile batteries and units specialized in dealing with germ warfare and poison gas attacks to Turkey.

Diplomats said they expected France and the other holdouts to drop their objections to the military planning with the Turkey request.

"I trust the alliance will stick together and we will help Turkey," Norwegian Defense Minister Kristin Krohn Devold said Sunday. "I have a strong belief in common sense."

As well as trans-Atlantic differences, the deadlock has highlighted deep divisions among European allies. The majority, led by Britain, Spain and Italy, backs the tough U.S. stance against Iraq, while France and Germany have been fierce opponents.

Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin was headed to Paris on Monday to discuss Iraq with President Jacques Chirac, another leading opponent of war against Hussein. They were expected to urge that the crisis be resolved peacefully.

---

Online at: http://www.dallasnews.com/latestnews/stories/021003dnintfrance.3d4c9200.html

[MeekOneGOP]

I hope this goes through...

Later Monday, Turkey requested emergency consultations under NATO's mutual defense treaty, believed to be the first time in the 53-year history of the alliance any nation has done so.

By requesting the consultations, Turkey is now expected to ask for the planning to begin. Diplomats say they expect France, Germany and Belgium to drop their protests with the request.

"What is important is that we arrive at a consensus and I'm confident we will," said NATO Secretary-General Lord Robertson.

[Phlap]

All three(including Germany)were saved from a tyrant by the US. At the time the US took heat for waiting so long to join the fight. Now all three say it is too early to take out another tyrant. That more time is needed to let diplomacy work. But I doubt that the oppressed people of Iraq nor the jewish populations of these three countries agree.

[Edmund Burke]

The Belgians make waffles and Godiva chocolate.

[MeekOneGOP]

Even if France relents, the 19 NATO members will have to agree again to approve the actual deployment of defense forces, which would include AWACS early warning planes, Patriot anti-missile batteries and units specialized in handling germ warfare or poison gas attacks.

If something happens to Turkey via Iraq in the meantime, we should kick France's arse !

[Edmund Burke]

What are the procedures to kick a member out of Nato?

[Larry381]

For more than 40 years America bore the major expense in blood & treasure defending Western Europe. We were willing to risk losing American troops and American cities to defend Germany & France should they be attacked. The treachery of these two nation in particular is staggering.

[Kip Lange]

Surprise, surprise. The usual suspects. ;-)

[SkiHatGuy]

If I remember my French class in HS correctly, "French" fries originated in Belgium. I'm pretty sure that they are called Frites de Belgique in Frogland.

The fine thespian Jean Claude Van Damme is also from Belgium. We should bomb them for that alone.

[Kip Lange]

Agreed. I learned the "history repeats itself" lesson; I listened to Santiago; I'm in the process of learning, "...and then history does a 180 and bites you square in the arse."

[Happy2BMe]

How history will tell the story:

A. The U.N. sent inspectors into Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction - the same WMD Saddamn said he did not have.

B. The United States and Britian agreed that Saddamn had not complied with U.N. resolution 1440, had WMD, then attacked and removed Saddamn from power to prevent him from using (or allow some other terrorist) them.

C. Saddamn, while insisting (and convincing France, Germany, and Belgium) he had no WMD, at the same time threatened the U.S. and Britian to destroy them WITH WMD if they attacked Iraq.

D. After the U.S. and Britian attacked Iraq, vast stores of WMD, chemical, biological, and yes - even some nuclear - were uncovered by the prevailing U.S. and British forces.

E. Saddamn and his two sons were tried before a U.N. tribunal and unaimously found to be enemies of minkind perptetuating mass murders on their own people of magnitudes and ferociouceness not seen since Adolph Hitler's actions created the word "genocide." They were summarily executed by firing squads for their crimes against humanity.

F. The Democrats in the United States had their worst election returns in the 2004 elections in that party's history.

G. George W. Bush was elected president for a second term in 2004 by the largest landslide in U.S. history.

H. Ditto for Tony Blair.

I. Hillary Clinton was defeated for his (grin) bid for reelection in New York State.

[Happy2BMe]

The three weasels...

Rumsfeld to France and Germany:

"They Are The Old Europe

Our German Friends Sharing Our "New" Europe

[Belgo]

"The New World that we must lead"

It's exactly this kind of talk that gives a European like me the creeps. Do the US want to establish a "fourth Reich" ? Do you really believe you are on a mission from God to rid the world from "Evil" ? Please get real. If the US attack Irak without UN authorisation it creates a precedent for every country with a big gun that wants to attack/conquer/disarm its neighbour. That means we throw thousands of years of civilisation overboard and go back to the law of the jungle and living in a cave. Try to understand European criticism does not mean we hate America or have signed up with "the Axis of Evil". We just think that throwing a lot of weapons of mass destruction on Bagdad is not the best way to keep terrorists from using WMD against the US.

Some other things I fail to understand about the American priorities in the "War on Terror":

What about Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida ? I thought they were first on the hitlist ? Haven't heard about them lately.
If you are looking for a tyrant with nuclear WMD, why not first attack North-Korea ?

And finally, most Europeans get really upset when they hear George Bush mixing political speech with the language of a religious sermon. It makes him sound like Mullah Omar. Some of the worst crimes against humanity are performed in the name of God/Allah.

I do not have many illusions about the sympathy of this forum for my points of view, but I hope to have given you some insight in the mind of a "weasel".

Let the Belgo-bashing begin !

[Hurricane Andrew]

Does the phrase "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists" ring a bell with any of these Old-Europe countries?

[Katya]

It will be interesting to see how each of these countries large Turkish populations reacts to the non-defense of their homeland.