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NATO Crisis Deepens As Meeting Is Abandoned (20 Minutes)
Ananova ^ | 2-12-2003

Posted on 02/11/2003 3:39:53 PM PST by blam

Nato crisis deepens as meeting is abandoned

Nato remains in crisis after a meeting of ambassadors aimed at sorting out differences over Iraq was abandoned after 20 minutes.

A second day of consultations at alliance HQ in Brussels failed to end one of the worst crises in Nato's 53 year history.

France, Germany and Belgium refused to lift their veto of US backed plans to bolster Turkish defences against a possible Iraqi missile attack.

After two postponements during the day, ambassadors from the 19 Nato countries met for only 20 minutes before ending the session.

Talks were to resume Wednesday, said a diplomat.

"Right now we do not have a conclusion," said Nato spokesman Yves Brodeur. The division in the alliance could undermine the America's attempts to muster support in the UN Security Council for military action against Iraq.

France, Russia and Germany sought more time for increased UN inspections in a proposal opposed by Washington.

Nato's infighting also casts doubt on the future of an alliance, which has spent the past years seeking to reinvent itself as a force to confront terrorism and rogue states.

Story filed: 17:59 Tuesday 11th February 2003


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abandoned; crisis; meeting; nato
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1 posted on 02/11/2003 3:39:53 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Some people may have been selling WMD to Iraq. This is a violation of UN, Nato and other agreements. An Ally to which side?
2 posted on 02/11/2003 3:45:38 PM PST by paguch
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To: blam
Let's expel France, Gremany, and Belgium from NATO, get out of the UN, and pull our troops from decaying Old Europe.
3 posted on 02/11/2003 3:47:00 PM PST by MonroeDNA (dware ROCKS!!!! 101 mussels in one sitting, rasied over $2000 to keep the lights on at FR!)
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To: MonroeDNA
"Let's expel France, Gremany, and Belgium from NATO, get out of the UN, and pull our troops from decaying Old Europe."

You got my vote.

4 posted on 02/11/2003 3:52:01 PM PST by blam
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: MonroeDNA
IT'S TIME TO MOVE ALL OF OUR TROOPS,EQUIPMENT SUPPORT PERSONAL OUT OF FRANCE,GERMANY AND BELGIUM NOW!!!!
6 posted on 02/11/2003 3:54:51 PM PST by jocko12
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To: paguch
Some people may have been selling WMD to Iraq.

My thought too. Why else would France and Germany be willing to damage NATO and the UN to try to keep us out of Iraq. This feels like it involves more than money.

7 posted on 02/11/2003 3:56:53 PM PST by colorado tanker (Binny can't come to the phone right now; no he won't be able to talk to you tomorrow or the next day)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: MonroeDNA
Let's expel France, Gremany, and Belgium from NATO, get out of the UN, and pull our troops from decaying Old Europe. Exactly. Time for NUNATO.
9 posted on 02/11/2003 3:58:09 PM PST by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: IloveLisa
I propose a new alliance with Poland, and the other former Eastern bloc countries, the US, and Britain. I know, we can call it the "Warsaw Pact."
10 posted on 02/11/2003 3:58:55 PM PST by dfwgator (What do you mean that name was already taken?)
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To: blam
"Let's expel France, Gremany, and Belgium from NATO, get out of the UN, and pull our troops from decaying Old Europe."

You got mine, as well.

Leave NATO to the EuroWeenies...

11 posted on 02/11/2003 4:00:15 PM PST by dcwusmc ("The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself.")
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: blam
We should hold a victory pizza party to celebrate the NATO victory over the Soviet Union, and pass out little awards and prizes to everyone.

And then announce the establishment of a new All-for-one-one-for-all Treaty organization, to consist of everyone who has signed on for the upcoming festivities in Baghdad.

Headquarters in Warsaw. Or Istanbul. Or Baghdad.

From day one its a lot larger than NATO ever was during the Cold War.
13 posted on 02/11/2003 4:01:42 PM PST by marron
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To: blam
Signed a treaty. Broke the treaty. They're OUT! End of NATO. Form an updated alliance & let F, B, & G stew in their own juices, the weasels.
14 posted on 02/11/2003 4:02:37 PM PST by Libertina
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To: MonroeDNA
Let's expel France, Gremany, and Belgium from NATO, get out of the UN, and pull our troops from decaying Old Europe.

As far as NATO's concerned, from what I understand, that's exactly what the French are after so they can build a separate European military force. Very interesting times indeed. And I thought I'd seen it all... (just kidding...)

15 posted on 02/11/2003 4:02:53 PM PST by Elenya ( And So It Begins...)
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To: Elenya
Verrry interrresting.
16 posted on 02/11/2003 4:06:10 PM PST by SwinneySwitch (LIBERATE IRAQ, SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!)
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To: blam
Mine, too. And if the Europeans are smart, they'll junk the EU and revert to a free trade agreement.
17 posted on 02/11/2003 4:06:25 PM PST by Wolfstar
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To: Elenya
" that's exactly what the French are after so they can build a separate European military force."

Would you want to be in a military alliance that France heads?

18 posted on 02/11/2003 4:07:37 PM PST by blam
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To: SwinneySwitch
USA joins Warsaw pack....I love it....the dems wuld be appoleptic (sp)
19 posted on 02/11/2003 4:07:48 PM PST by spokeshave
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To: colorado tanker
Historically, "sanction busting" has been VERY lucrative. On the order of 1,000% profits are typical when outlaw regimes with lots of cash are eager enough to buy forbidden arms... or WMD machinery and chemicals.
20 posted on 02/11/2003 4:08:35 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: blam
It looks like so far the only ones interested are Belgium and Germany...
22 posted on 02/11/2003 4:10:36 PM PST by Elenya ( And So It Begins...)
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To: Libertina
NATO - UN - OPEC
Bush scores the trifecta!!
23 posted on 02/11/2003 4:10:51 PM PST by calljack
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To: jocko12
IT'S TIME TO MOVE ALL OF OUR TROOPS,EQUIPMENT SUPPORT PERSONAL OUT OF FRANCE,GERMANY AND BELGIUM NOW!!!!

The Belgium element might be difficult. It would be very expensive to try to recreate the nuke bunker that currently exists at the SHAPE facility. The above ground office buildings wouldn't be much of a problem. The NATO civilians would be fit to be tied. Those guys draw a fat, tax free income and spend most of their evenings on silly social events.

It was hard enough to get things done in NATO when it was only 12 nations. Lots of bickering. I worked as a contractor in the SHAPE facility over a cumulative period of 20 weeks. I can't ever recall seeing any French military The staff in the nuke bunker was mostly American, English, German, Italian and a couple of Scots. The civilians were Dutch, Turkish and Belgian.

24 posted on 02/11/2003 4:13:21 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: Badabing Badaboom
EXCRETE THEM...
25 posted on 02/11/2003 4:13:21 PM PST by mr. mojo risin
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: IloveLisa
Maybe NATO is an antiquated institution anyway?

It's hard to imagine a military use for NATO today. It was built for something which doesn't exist anymore, and I can't think of a mission that it might have.

Nor can we use Serbia as an example. That might have been a mission for an EU force, if that, but we had no strategic interest there at all.

27 posted on 02/11/2003 4:17:18 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: jocko12
All nato troops have been out of France for a long time.
28 posted on 02/11/2003 4:18:14 PM PST by Former Proud Canadian
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To: Travis McGee
Historically, "sanction busting" has been VERY lucrative. On the order of 1,000% profits are typical when outlaw regimes with lots of cash are eager enough to buy forbidden arms... or WMD machinery and chemicals.

It would buy a lotta foie gras and weiner schnitzel.

29 posted on 02/11/2003 4:19:43 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Elenya
It looks like so far the only ones interested are Belgium and Germany...

Now that's a scary alliance, isn't it? NOT!
I don't think they'll be able to hold out long. Both Germany and France have active Al Qaeda cells, and either one could be vulnerable to attacks.

30 posted on 02/11/2003 4:21:16 PM PST by speekinout
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To: MonroeDNA
If Bush did that, he would be seen as the Greatest President in History. Most people are afraid of greatness, we'll see about Bush.
31 posted on 02/11/2003 4:24:52 PM PST by Republic of Texas (amydave.com....what?)
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To: IloveLisa
On one of my NATO software deliveries, I had the opportunity to go to Izmir, Turkey. The company put me up in the Hilton. Before embarking on the trip, I learned as much Turkish as I could cram in 3 weeks. It was 40 minutes before the hotel staff stretched beyond my vocabulary and I had to admit that English was a better choice. Fun while it lasted.

The week I arrived, the local paper carried a story about 5 members of Parliament who had verbally offended the rest of the members of Parliament. At the end of the week, the local paper showed that the "offensive" language had been legislated into a "capital" offense. The 5 members had assumed room temperature before I set foot on the aircraft to leave. Turkish law is VERY different from what we enjoy in the U.S.

Aside from the harsh example of the legal system, I was suprised to be awakened at 5:30 AM. The hillside was covered with minarets. Each one had a PA system attached. The local imams would start calling people to prayer early in the morning. Turkey has an odd secular government. They tolerate the coexistence of Muslims, Jews and Christians. It was a real bit of culture shock, but an enjoyable trip.

The U.S. Navy aviator that was my escort to the base was required to keep his uniform in a backpack and travel in civvies. A NATO bus picked us up from the hotel. The bus had two armed guards with 9mm submachine guns.

32 posted on 02/11/2003 4:25:17 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: IloveLisa
BINGO! thats what this is really about, they want to piss of Turkey to the point where it doesnt want to join the EU, because despite all of their PC garbage, they dont want that "darker" country in their club. The EU is the embodiment of elite liberalism.
33 posted on 02/11/2003 4:30:03 PM PST by Husker24
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To: IloveLisa
When allies refuse to come to each other's aid, an alliance is dead regardless of what the paperwork says.
34 posted on 02/11/2003 4:32:04 PM PST by johnb838 (patience hell, let's go out and kill somethin')
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To: colorado tanker
France, Germany and Belgium are allies. Of Saddam Hussein. They are not allies of the United States. I do not want to remain in a phony alliance with them. They are with the enemy.
35 posted on 02/11/2003 4:38:17 PM PST by tomahawk
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To: blam
The EU bureaucrats have spent years trying to pull together thousands of policies and regulations - It's all a waste!

If France & Germany's agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on, to h### with them.

The rule of law does not countenance those who renege on their agreements.
36 posted on 02/11/2003 4:38:59 PM PST by P.O.E. (Liberate Iraq!)
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To: tomahawk
NATO ran a whole lot better back in the De Gaulle era when France was out of NATO. Schroeder is a weak fool reacting to domestic politics. His government is deeply unpopular; Germany should revert to its traditional policies in a new government.
37 posted on 02/11/2003 4:40:49 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker
That is my hope. But the Grunen and SPD will cling to power at all costs, so we're stuck with a Germany in Saddam's corner for now.
38 posted on 02/11/2003 4:51:29 PM PST by tomahawk
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To: Elenya
As far as NATO's concerned, from what I understand, that's exactly what the French are after so they can build a separate European military force. Very interesting times indeed. And I thought I'd seen it all... (just kidding...)

They gonna get their people to give up all the socialistic goodies to pay for it
39 posted on 02/11/2003 4:53:15 PM PST by uncbob
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To: Elenya
As far as NATO's concerned, from what I understand, that's exactly what the French are after so they can build a separate European military force. I think you are on to something. However, they are going to find that armies cost money.
40 posted on 02/11/2003 4:55:31 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: tomahawk
But the Grunen and SPD will cling to power at all costs, so we're stuck with a Germany in Saddam's corner for now.

Yep. If Schroeder were to back America over Iraq the Greens would pull out of government and trigger new elections that would knock the SPD out of power. So, for now a small group of marxists masquerading as environmentalists are holding the German government hostage. Lesson: don't coalition with the Greens.

41 posted on 02/11/2003 4:56:07 PM PST by colorado tanker (Moderators are our friends)
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To: IloveLisa
... it looks like the US, Russia, and Turkey will ally

And moving farther east, you can add Japan, India, Taiwan, and Australia.

42 posted on 02/11/2003 4:58:11 PM PST by Ken H
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: blam
Here's a thought, Let's make each US state it's own country, give each US state one vote in the UN, so we will have more parity with the EU (pronounced: "eeeewwwwww". . .as in . ."eeeewwwww, I have a boil")
45 posted on 02/11/2003 5:07:36 PM PST by ChadGore (Going to war without the French is like going hunting without an accordian)
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To: colorado tanker
Re:Lesson: don't coalition with the Greens.

Agreed. A coalition with the greens is a coalition with Putin.

46 posted on 02/11/2003 5:09:17 PM PST by ChadGore (Going to war without the French is like going hunting without an accordian)
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To: calljack
Bush scores the trifecta!!
ROTFLOL I think he's trying here at home too, INS IRS NEA :)
47 posted on 02/11/2003 5:11:28 PM PST by Libertina
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To: ChadGore
Agreed. A coalition with the greens is a coalition with Putin.

Or Kruschev.

48 posted on 02/11/2003 5:12:57 PM PST by colorado tanker (Moderators are our friends)
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To: MonroeDNA
defacto in progress...

we are planning to redeploy in new european states like poland. The alliance is over with. Time for new partners in peace.

Germany screwed with the french whore and has caught the incurable form of AIDS from her...

Look for a dozen or more PUBLICIZED bilateral ties to be formed from this rift... and for france, germany, russia an belgium to form a smaller, former soviet block.

idiots.

If you are german or french and conservative... get the hell oughta dodge... cold war/hot war part dieux is underway...


49 posted on 02/11/2003 6:27:04 PM PST by Robert_Paulson2 (clintonsgotusbytheballs?)
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To: blam
"Right now we do not have a conclusion,"
actually bub... I think "conclusion" may be an understatement. NATO as we have known it is toast.
50 posted on 02/11/2003 6:28:07 PM PST by Robert_Paulson2 (clintonsgotusbytheballs?)
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