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Sidewalk Snow Removal Laws - Nanny Governments Cause Heart Attacks (my title)
Quad Cities Times (Iowa) ^ | unknown | none

Posted on 02/18/2003 8:12:49 AM PST by pttttt

Snow removal

Policies on sidewalk snow removal vary throughout the Quad-Cities.

Davenport and Bettendorf take an aggressive stance, to the point of clearing your walks and billing you for it if you don’t do it yourself.

Rock Island is just the opposite; although the city would like you to clear your walks, its legal department says sidewalks are on public property and homeowners can’t be forced to clear them.

Here is the rundown:

Davenport

Sidewalks must be cleared of ice and snow within 10 hours after the end of a snow greater than two inches. If not, the city can hire a contractor to clear your walks and assess the cost to you. City employees respond to complaints and personally monitor walks within a three-block radius of schools. For questions, call 326-7704.

Bettendorf

Sidewalks must be cleared within 48 hours after snow ceases. If not, property owners are sent a courtesy letter warning them that if the walks are not cleared within 24 hours of the time the letter was written, a contractor will clear the walk and the cost will be assessed to them. Priority is given to complaints, walks around schools and walks used by joggers, such as those along Tanglefoot Lane or Devils Glen Road. The minimum cost is $50 per hour. For questions, call 344-4055.

Moline

Sidewalks must be cleared of ice and snow within a reasonable time after a storm ends. Reasonable means within 12 hours, or if the storm stops during the night, within 12 hours after daylight. For questions, call 797-0475.

Rock Island

The city doesn’t have a policy on removal or enforcement. “Our legal department is of the opinion that we cannot force people to clean our property,” Bob Hawes, public works director, says. Since sidewalks are on public right-of-way, it is public property. For questions, call 793-3465.

East Moline

Sidewalks must be cleared of ice and snow within 24 hours after the snow stops falling. For questions, call 752-1573.

         

 


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: fascism; liberal; seniors; snow
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Not just picking on the Quad Cities - these sidewalk snow removal laws seem to be a liberal fad nationwide. Some of them don't just charge for removal; they have daily accumulating fines.

So hey, liberals, what about the 80-year-old homeowner on a fixed income who might not have $50 in ready cash for shoveling the sidewalk? Or the disabled homeowner? This is one of the nastier liberal extortion ideas yet.

1 posted on 02/18/2003 8:12:49 AM PST by pttttt
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To: pttttt
Yup. Why do people elect morons who write these laws?
2 posted on 02/18/2003 8:15:16 AM PST by AppyPappy (Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.)
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To: pttttt
So hey, liberals, what about the 80-year-old homeowner on a fixed income who might not have $50 in ready cash for shoveling the sidewalk?

There are none left, they have all moved to Florida.

3 posted on 02/18/2003 8:17:09 AM PST by TightSqueeze (From the Department of Homeland Security, sponsors of Liberty-Lite, Less Freedom! / Red Tape!)
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To: pttttt
Boston fines you for three days and then if it is not cleared the city will do it but they don't send you a bill, they file a lein against your property.
4 posted on 02/18/2003 8:21:50 AM PST by HEY4QDEMS
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To: pttttt
You must not have a lot of snow where you live.

We've had 100" since Christmas, and it is a necessity for people to clear their sidewalks to keep small kids out of the road.

5 posted on 02/18/2003 8:31:09 AM PST by Jim Noble
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To: pttttt
The city takes care of the streets. The home-owner can take care of the sidewalk. He/she takes care of his/her driveway, right? The sidewalk isn't that much more. Heck; the real killer is the end of the driveway anyway (not the sidewalk), where the salted snow from the road piles up.

And no, I am NOT a liberal! Some personal responsibility is reqired!


MARK A SITY
http://www.logic101.net/
6 posted on 02/18/2003 8:31:31 AM PST by logic101.net
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To: pttttt
The homeowner must clear the sidewalk within hours of the snowfall? Sheesh! My father-in-law is 83 and lives in Golden, Co., and we just spent a week at his house the week of Feb. 5. We had a blizzard on about the 7th. I didn't even want to go outside. It was too cold for me to go out in the garage. My husband went out and cleared the driveway. I can see how it could cause a heart attack with a man 83 years old!
7 posted on 02/18/2003 8:31:40 AM PST by buffyt (Nach Frankreich: Sprechen Sie Deutsches? Nein? Bitte Schön.)
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To: pttttt
This issue comes down to one question: Are sidewalks public or private property? Does the city or the homeowner own the sidewalk?

Well, let's check:

Can the homeowner exercise private property rights on the sidewalk, such as:

Owning a deed to the sidewalk? No.

Forcing trespassers to leave the sidewalk? No.

Right to sell the sidewalk? No.

Establishing rules for the use of the sidewalk? No.

Right to build on the sidewalk? No.

So, we have established that the homeowner has absolutely no private property rights over the sidewalk. Yet, the homeowner is said to have legally binding responsibilities for something he doesn't own. (Responsibilities without rights) In effect, the city is compelling forced labor from the homeowner, in exchange for absolutely no compensation.

What difference does the proximity of a property to the homeowner's land make? None! These laws make the homeowner into the city's SLAVE. It doesn't matter how little or how much work is demanded from the homeowner, the fact that forced labor is coerced from him, no matter to what extent, is sufficient to establish this fact. You're either a slave or not, just like you're pregnant or not. There is no middle, no "slightly pregnant".

Essentially the city is saying it doesn't want the responsibility that comes with ownership of the property. Well then it needs to sell the sidewalk to the homeowner, and stop claiming the rights that come with the responsibility it shirked, by gunpoint no less.

8 posted on 02/18/2003 8:33:32 AM PST by freeeee
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To: logic101.net
It is dangerous for my father-in-law to even walk outside when it is so slippery, he uses a cane, he is 83 and frail. One winter he fell and slid all the way down his driveway [it is steep] and didn't stop sliding until he was in the middle of the street below. I can't imagine forcing him to clear a sidewalk!
9 posted on 02/18/2003 8:34:05 AM PST by buffyt (Nach Frankreich: Sprechen Sie Deutsches? Nein? Bitte Schön.)
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To: freeeee
They just passed a law in this town that stated that the CITY owns the sidewalks and property owners DO NOT. We are no longer able to put our trash bags, tree trimmings, on the sidewalk or touching it, and our cars cannot be parked where they obstruct a sidewalk. The city made it plain that we do not own the sidewalk or about ten feet of our yard on each side, it is utility easement.
10 posted on 02/18/2003 8:36:00 AM PST by buffyt (Nach Frankreich: Sprechen Sie Deutsches? Nein? Bitte Schön.)
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To: pttttt
Think this through for a moment.

Sidewalks are usually on public property. The City could shovel them. My City has about as many people as the quad-cities put together and it has 4,000 lane miles of roads. Sidewalks are probably 2/3 of that. Can you imagine how many people and how much equipment that would take to clean them. Naturally, it would be paid for by taxes. Do YOU want to pay those extra taxes?

Or, they can pass a law making the adjacent property owner responsible. True, it is an imposition.

Or, the City can do nothing and pay a multi-million dollar settlement when someone slips on the ice and sues. That has happened here.

Those are your choices. Which one do you support?
11 posted on 02/18/2003 8:37:52 AM PST by jim_trent
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To: logic101.net
The city takes care of the streets.

The city owns the streets.

The home-owner can take care of the sidewalk.

The homeowner doesn't own the sidewalk.

He/she takes care of his/her driveway, right?

The homeowner owns the driveway, not the sidewalk.

The sidewalk isn't that much more.

The homeowner doesn't own it. How much more additional work it entails is utterly irrevalent.

And no, I am NOT a liberal!

Maybe not, but your economic theory in this case is indistinguishable from socialism.

12 posted on 02/18/2003 8:38:56 AM PST by freeeee
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To: buffyt
Had an 85 year old kick it while clearing snow locally this weekend. Don't know if he was subject to any laws, though.
13 posted on 02/18/2003 8:45:28 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: buffyt
It's just another method by which money-grubbing liberals force the elderly out onto the streets, literally. Either they collect the fine, or play "Dr. Kevorkian" on people who can't keep up. Win-win.
14 posted on 02/18/2003 8:47:10 AM PST by Thinkin' Gal
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To: pttttt
these sidewalk snow removal laws seem to be a liberal fad nationwide. Some of them don't just charge for removal; they have daily accumulating fines.

Real nice for the person who happens to be away.

15 posted on 02/18/2003 8:52:59 AM PST by Eala (just makes me glad to live where: (1)snow is rare, and (2)we have no sidewalks)
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To: jim_trent
Sidewalks are usually on public property. The City could shovel them.

Rights come with responsibility. The city owns the sidewalk, it has rights over it, so it and it alone has the responsibility to maintain it.

Naturally, it would be paid for by taxes. Do YOU want to pay those extra taxes?

Government takes half of what we make in taxes, and amazingly doesn't have enough money to pay for the basic services it was created for. So now the choice isn't between funding something it should be doing or something it shouldn't. Now the choice is more taxes.

Governments do this every time they want a tax increase: zero fund the essentials, things that it was created to do, and they cry poor. Don't be fooled.

Or, they can pass a law making the adjacent property owner responsible. True, it is an imposition.

It's more than an imposition, its forced labor, and outright slavery.

Or, the City can do nothing and pay a multi-million dollar settlement when someone slips on the ice and sues. That has happened here.

"Use At Your Own Risk" (similar to the beach) signs and Tort reform will solve that.

Those are your choices. Which one do you support?

There are more possibilities: 1. Sell or give the sidewalk to the homeowner. 2. Cut the budget in one of the countless areas the city should never be funding to begin with, and use the money to fund the basic, essential services the city was created for.

16 posted on 02/18/2003 8:54:17 AM PST by freeeee
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To: pttttt
What whiners in this thread. Just put on a pair of boots when you go outside and slog through it. What's the big deal? It will all melt soon enough anyhow. Keep nanny government off our backs.
17 posted on 02/18/2003 8:58:53 AM PST by SamAdams76
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To: freeeee
or... Why not use the jailed labor force to clear sidewalks. Afterall they complain if we don't pay tax dollars to let them exercise. Then let's give them some exercise.
18 posted on 02/18/2003 9:07:38 AM PST by DeathfromBelow
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To: DeathfromBelow
Maryville, Missouri has an ordinance that your walk must be cleared by 9am after the snow quits. So if it quits snowing at 8:55a. and you don't have it done. Too bad.

I own all my sidewalks, They are on my property not the cities and they aren't part of the street easement. I shovel them when I want, and if i don't want company to trudge to my door to sell me something, I don't shovel 'em. Now that's freedom.
19 posted on 02/18/2003 9:10:28 AM PST by DeathfromBelow
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To: freeeee
Government takes half of what we make in taxes, and amazingly doesn't have enough money to pay for the basic services it was created for. So now the choice isn't between funding something it should be doing or something it shouldn't. Now the choice is more taxes

What's even sadder is that the typical city doesn't have enough police to deal with murders, rapes, robberies, burglaries, etc. But they always have enough to enforce fines. Hmmm, I wonder why that is?

20 posted on 02/18/2003 9:17:44 AM PST by alpowolf
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To: DeathfromBelow
Why not use the jailed labor force to clear sidewalks.

Sure, they had due process, and were duly convicted of a crime.

21 posted on 02/18/2003 9:22:15 AM PST by freeeee
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To: freeeee
Unfortunately, you are attacking a problem without suggesting a workable solution.

The reason the sidewalks are on public property (right-of-way) is because that is where most of the utilities run. Its not there for the sidewalks. If you give that property to the property owner, you will have to pay EVERY property owner whenever ANY utility wants to run something along the street. That is sewers, electricity, gas, water, even the cable or phone line you use to post here. As it is right now, most road projects pay MORE for right-of-way or easements than they do for concrete (remember that the next time you parrot the claim that a person who goes through condemnation is having their property stolen -- but that is a whole nother subject). That is just for the streets, not all the other utilities. And guess who would end up paying for them all. You. Your solution would only make things worse.

You did not answer what your choice was. Pay more taxes to hire people to shovel peoples sidewalks or pay more taxes on lawsuits. And, anyone who thinks that "Use at your own risk" acts on a lawyer like holy water to a vampire is a fool. Lawyers are not driven away that easily.

I remember sledding down the hill next to my parents house most of the winter when I was a kid. Not any more. Is that because of global warming? NO. It is because the City did not plow residential streets 40 years ago. The expectations of people like you have risen since then. They not only want ALL streets plowed. They want them plowed down to bare concrete and they want it RIGHT NOW. And they elect people who promise that. That costs extra money. A lot more money. Remember that when you bitch the next time. You want more than you got 40 years ago, but you want to pay less. It does not work that way. You need a reality check.
22 posted on 02/18/2003 9:30:07 AM PST by jim_trent
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To: jim_trent
Your solution would only make things worse.

Ok, so giving or selling the sidewalk to the homeowner isn't feasible.

You did not answer what your choice was.

I gave another solution: Cut the budget in one of the countless areas the city should never be funding to begin with, and use the money to fund the basic, essential services the city was created for.

And in post #18, DeathfromBelow gave another, prison labor.

Use at your own risk" acts on a lawyer like holy water to a vampire is a fool. Lawyers are not driven away that easily.

That has to be done with tort reform, it won't stand alone.

The expectations of people like you have risen since then. You want more than you got 40 years ago, but you want to pay less.

I think you make the mistake of lumping me in with others. I don't want more government than 40 years ago. I want less. A lot less.

23 posted on 02/18/2003 9:41:03 AM PST by freeeee
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To: freeeee; jim_trent
I think you make the mistake of lumping me in with others. I don't want more government than 40 years ago. I want less. A lot less.

As do I. I think this story is a good example of why. When I was a kid, people shoveled their sidewalks without govt coercion, because it's easier to come and go when your walk is shoveled, and nobody expected the govt to do it either. Now people have gotten accustomed to the idea that govt must do everything that needs doing. It's a bad idea fostered by politicians of all stripes (conservative politicians like for govt to do such things too--just not the same things).

Time to start bringing these boys to heel! Of course there will be terrible consequences--people will have to grow up a little. O the pain the pain.

24 posted on 02/18/2003 10:04:44 AM PST by alpowolf
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To: alpowolf
When I was a kid, people shoveled their sidewalks without govt coercion, because it's easier to come and go when your walk is shoveled, and nobody expected the govt to do it either. Now people have gotten accustomed to the idea that govt must do everything that needs doing.

Thank you for that insight. I believe you have touched on an important part of this issue.

I personally would shovel the sidewalk in front of my house of my own free will. But pass a law that says I have to, and I'm very tempted to stop.

25 posted on 02/18/2003 10:16:49 AM PST by freeeee
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To: pttttt
I live near Chicago and thankfully we don't have oppressive sidewalk clearing laws. In fact, I refuse to clear mine due to the lawsuits that can be slappin on you if you clear your side and someone falls. Not clearing it becomes an "act of God".

When I walk my dog I have to sometimes walk on uncleared sidewalks but shrug it off. It's unfortunate but I'm not about to be sued.

26 posted on 02/18/2003 12:23:42 PM PST by The Toad
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To: freeeee
> I think you make the mistake of lumping me in with others.
> I don't want more government than 40 years ago. I want
> less. A lot less.

Well I am glad to hear that. I agree with that also. However, no politician will ever get elected with that platform. Unfortunately, when I hear a supposedly conservative politician say, "I will improve services and won't raise taxes. I will cut waste instead.", I know he is lying.

If he said, "I will cut services and cut taxes.", I would vote for him, but very few other people would.

As a Civil Engineer who has worked on street and sewer projects, I know how expectations have risen in the last 20-30 years. The City I live in has fairly few employees. They farm out about 90-95% of the engineering to consultants (whats where I come in) along with 90-95% of the inspection, 100% of the construction to contractors, 100% of the garbage collection, about 50% of the snow plowing, and are negotiating to sell the wastewater treatment plant to a private firm. About the only thing the City does anymore is fill a few chuckholes, repair traffic signals, and plow small snowstorms. But, taxes have not gone down.

Those increased expectations cost money.
27 posted on 02/18/2003 3:49:41 PM PST by jim_trent
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To: alpowolf
> When I was a kid, people shoveled their sidewalks
> without govt coercion, because it's easier to come
> and go when your walk is shoveled, and nobody expected
> the govt to do it either. Now people have gotten
> accustomed to the idea that govt must do everything
> that needs doing. It's a bad idea fostered by politicians
> of all stripes (conservative politicians like for govt
> to do such things too--just not the same things).

I agree with this entirely. Especially the part about conservative politicians being just as bad as liberal ones at expanding government. I have worked with several of them on engineering projects and have found that there is absolutely NO difference between them. Both want to expand the project (make it cost more) because one of their "constituents" wanted special treatment. There is absolutely NO difference when it comes to money -- as long as it is spent in their district, it does not matter what it costs.
28 posted on 02/18/2003 3:56:49 PM PST by jim_trent
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To: pttttt
Folks, just do what I did when we bought our house 3 years ago...

I bought a snowblower - I thought "corner lot, long sidewalks, good driveway...no way I'll shovel all that"....

What happened? NO SNOW since.

I've used it three times in three years - where prior, at the older house, I had to shovel three times a month or more.

Snow blowers = no-snow insurance!

29 posted on 02/18/2003 4:00:37 PM PST by NorCoGOP (No more Saddam, know more peace!)
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To: SamAdams76
What whiners in this thread. Just put on a pair of boots when you go outside and slog through it. What's the big deal?

Got that right.
Just a bunch of pisant extremists who don't want to conform to any normal obligations associated with living in close proximity to neighbors in a small community. Sidewalks are the simplest form of public conveyence in small towns, and facilitate convenient & safe walking for their residents. While the town itself may have originally installed the sidewalks, residents are often required to provide mainentance and upkeep for the portion that crosses their property.

No big deal, it's better than paying increased taxes to support a full time sidewalk maintenance department for the town. If a resident is physically unable to keep his/her sidewalk clear, there's usually a neighborhood teenager available who'll do it for a few bucks. (And if you're not a crotchedy old coot, odds are that the teenager's parents will insist that he do it for nothing, just to be neighborly.)

30 posted on 02/18/2003 4:22:11 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: pttttt
My solution to clearing my sidewalk of snow was to live in Texas. No, such laws down here.
31 posted on 02/18/2003 4:27:26 PM PST by Station 51
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To: freeeee
Y'all sound like a bunch of lazy, liberal, whining boobs who want the government to take responsibility for everything in your life. Sheesh! Get off your lazy butt for 20 minutes and shovel your own walks for crying out loud. The reason intrusive laws like these are passed is because people won't take responsibility to do their duty and make their own neighborhoods a safer place to live.

If you think you're too old and fear you're going to have a heart attack, I have two suggestions. 1) Pay some 12 year old neighborhood kid $10 bucks to do it, and 2) Stop being such couch potato and get a little exercise once in while.
32 posted on 02/18/2003 4:46:31 PM PST by rogers21774
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To: Station 51
Another thing you can do is not live in a place that has sidewalks.
33 posted on 02/18/2003 4:55:34 PM PST by B Knotts
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To: Willie Green
I'm a retired mailman. About 25 years ago right after a huge snowstorm I had a guy yelling at me for his mail. I told him I wasn't walking through waiste high snow to get to his house. He yelled back at me that God put it there and God can take it away. I told him God could deliver his mail too. The next day it was all shoveled.
The past 20 or so years we found that young people don't clear their sidewalks. Most older folks do.
34 posted on 02/18/2003 5:06:58 PM PST by PeteyBoy (The best part of waking up--is waking up.)
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To: Willie Green
Our town of about 300 (plus 800 college students) has a street department consisting of one part-time worker, who also runs the sewage treatment facility. He was too busy plowing streets during this weekend's 18-inch snow storm to worry about sidewalks, needless to say. We all shovel our own sidewalks, and those who are able take care of the elderly or infirm neighbors. I think that's the way it should be.

Of course, I wrenched my back after doing our front walk and couldn't move for the rest of the day yesterday.

35 posted on 02/18/2003 5:15:32 PM PST by mountaineer
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To: pttttt
As a crazy man who runs outdoors in the winter as much as possible, I thoroughly cuss out anyone who doesn't shovel their walk within a few days. However, I wouldn't wish a government fine on them in a million years. Even the Peoples Republic of Ann Arbor(PRAA) wouldn't dream of a fine like this. After all, they have a problem getting the plows out on time....
36 posted on 02/18/2003 5:15:34 PM PST by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: The Toad
> I live near Chicago and thankfully we don't have oppressive sidewalk clearing laws.
> In fact, I refuse to clear mine due to the lawsuits that can be slappin on you if you clear
> your side and someone falls. Not clearing it becomes an "act of God".

You obviously have not had any experience with lawyers. If someone falls on the sidewalk in front of your house, YOU will be sued, along with the City of Chicago. If you are lucky, your insurance company will make a deal to settle for the amount of coverage. Then the lawyers will use that money to sue the City. If you aren't lucky, they will take the coverage to let the insurance company off the hook and still sue you in addition to Chicago.

Whoever told you that "act of God" thing has never been in court.
37 posted on 02/18/2003 5:16:03 PM PST by jim_trent
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To: PeteyBoy
Good story.

This is the first house I've ever lived in that had a sidewalk. I clear it, but then I've only got about 20' of sidewalk, being on the outside of a bend. The guy across the street on the corner has quite a bit more. Such is life.

I have a snowblower, so I'll usually go up the sidewalk a couple houses in either direction from mine, if they haven't already gotten to it. I used to help my neighbours on either side do there driveways, too, but as they don't seem inclined lately to do any snow clearing at all, I figure they can just live with the smushed-down snow/ice in their driveways. It's not like they're very old or crippled. Just lazy. Personally (as long as it's within reason and not too often), I enjoy getting out in the clean air and getting a little exercise.
38 posted on 02/18/2003 5:24:19 PM PST by -YYZ-
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To: mountaineer
We all shovel our own sidewalks, and those who are able take care of the elderly or infirm neighbors. I think that's the way it should be.

We didn't have sidewalks in the suburban neighborhood where I grew up, but there were plenty of driveways that needed shoveling whenever it snowed. (not many people had snowblowers or little tractors back then.) Anyway, there were about 5~6 teenage guys my age in the neighborhood, and after we shoveled our own family's driveways, we usually banded together and helped the rest of the neighborhood quickly finish theirs, whether the neighbor actually needed help or not. Heck, we were out there anyway having a good time, and we figured a courteous gesture towards some of the neighbors worked in our favor considering some of the other times we got a little mischievous.

39 posted on 02/18/2003 5:34:31 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: logic101.net
! Some personal responsibility is reqired!

I've got to agree with that!!! Whomever owns the item needing maintained should absolutely take responsibility for it or get rid of it. Where I live the county owns the property but refuses to take responsibility for it. Rather, they tell me to take care of their property or they will fine me! Ahhh... dictatorship at it's best!

If the parents are afraid for their children they should take personal responsibility for them. This personal responsibility thing is great!

40 posted on 02/18/2003 7:04:02 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird
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To: jim_trent
Or, the City can do nothing and pay a multi-million dollar settlement when someone slips on the ice and sues.

Yeah... it would be MUCH better if I were sued for not doing a perfect job cleaning off the city's sidewalk that I don't own and am required by law to clean.

The problem here is liberalism. Liberals constantly take what people do out of the good of their hearts (clean sidewalks, feed the poor, etc.) and make it a govt. function and/or law. So the nice person who does it as charity now does it at gun point. Fun!

41 posted on 02/18/2003 7:10:26 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird
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To: jim_trent
The reason the sidewalks are on public property (right-of-way) is because that is where most of the utilities run.

Completely false in the suburbs of Montgomery County, MD. The utilities are under the street or under the 10 foot wide grass strip between the sidewalk and the street.

42 posted on 02/18/2003 7:15:41 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird
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To: SamAdams76
And then they have the nerve to tell us which side of the road to drive on, and even when to stop the vehicle and when to start moving it again, and to top it off, what currency to use to buy something like chewing gum! Enough of this fascist totalitarian liberal nanny government, I say! And don't get me started on the tags attached to the mattresses you buy in this nanny government country! My dad, if he were alive and 92 years olds, wouldn't be able to read them without his glasses! I'll stop before I go out and start a violent revolution and government overthrow!
43 posted on 02/18/2003 7:18:45 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Someone left the cake out in the rain I dont think that I can take it coz it took so long to bake it)
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To: pttttt
I've been turned in once already. They really get tough on you if you don't get your walks cleared.

What really ticks me off is that I live on a corner and I have done the whole sidewalk only to have the city plow zoom by and bury my sidewalk so bad with heavy snow from the street that I can't clear it off without a snowblower. I noticed with this latest snow which wasn't too bad that the plows did the same on the side streets as well. My son usually gets over in time to help out now.

44 posted on 02/18/2003 7:26:13 PM PST by Aliska
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To: logic101.net
The city takes care of the streets. The home-owner can take care of the sidewalk. He/she takes care of his/her driveway, right? The sidewalk isn't that much more. Heck; the real killer is the end of the driveway anyway (not the sidewalk), where the salted snow from the road piles up.

What's a sidewalk? :^)

Come to think of it, what's snow? I seem to have forgotten since I moved from Ohio.

45 posted on 02/18/2003 7:46:43 PM PST by meyer
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To: jim_trent
Whoever told you that "act of God" thing has never been in court.

That may not apply everywhere. When my parents lived in Ohio they learned that one someone starts to shovel, they have taken responsibility for the safety of that sidewalk.

Most of the time my husband doesn't shovel the walk or the driveway. I'd rather walk on 6 inches of snow than slide on the 1/4 inch of ice left over if he can't get to the concrete.

46 posted on 02/18/2003 7:53:21 PM PST by Dianna
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To: Revolting cat!
What I really hate is the open container law. So what if I have an open beer in my own car? I'm not drunk! And if I'm a passenger, so what if I am? People can drink coffee and soft drinks in their cars. Why not beer?
47 posted on 02/18/2003 7:55:53 PM PST by SamAdams76
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To: jim_trent
You did not answer what your choice was. Pay more taxes to hire people to shovel peoples sidewalks or pay more taxes on lawsuits. And, anyone who thinks that "Use at your own risk" acts on a lawyer like holy water to a vampire is a fool. Lawyers are not driven away that easily.

Frankly, I think the number of choices that you offer is quite limited. There is the alternative of leaving the sidewalk unshoveled and letting natural melting run its course. People know the risks of snow-covered sidewalks. Or, another alternative is to not have sidewalks at all (as is the case in the development in which I reside).

48 posted on 02/18/2003 7:57:50 PM PST by meyer
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To: The Toad
I live near Chicago and thankfully we don't have oppressive sidewalk clearing laws. In fact, I refuse to clear mine due to the lawsuits that can be slappin on you if you clear your side and someone falls. Not clearing it becomes an "act of God".

That was true in Ohio as well; make an effort to clear the walk and you'd better do it right. Otherwise, you've created a more serious hazard since you've presumably drawn the poor pedestrian into a false sense of security on your shoveled, but icy sidewalk. Leave the snow and they can see straight up what the hazards are.

49 posted on 02/18/2003 8:01:07 PM PST by meyer
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
Completely false in the suburbs of Montgomery County, MD. The utilities are under the street or under the 10 foot wide grass strip between the sidewalk and the street.

Or, they are on poles along the rear lot line as was the case in many neighborhoods in Cleveland, Ohio (and its older suburbs). And the easement in any case is simply to allow the utilities in question to maintian their equipment. None - phone, electric, gas, water - require the homeowner to maintain their equipment. They only require that you let them do so.

50 posted on 02/18/2003 8:09:21 PM PST by meyer
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