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Three mystery ships are tracked over suspected 'weapons' cargo
independent.co.uk ^ | 2/19/03

Posted on 02/18/2003 4:47:00 PM PST by knak

Three giant cargo ships are being tracked by US and British intelligence on suspicion that they might be carrying Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.

Each with a deadweight of 35,000 to 40,000 tonnes, the ships have been sailing around the world's oceans for the past three months while maintaining radio silence in clear violation of international maritime law, say authoritative shipping industry sources.

The vessels left port in late November, just a few days after UN weapons inspectors led by Hans Blix began their search for the alleged Iraqi arsenal on their return to the country.

Uncovering such a deadly cargo on board would give George Bush and Tony Blair the much sought-after "smoking gun" needed to justify an attack on Saddam Hussein's regime, in the face of massive public opposition to war.

The ships were chartered by a shipping agent based in Egypt and are flying under the flags of three different countries. The continued radio silence since they left port, in addition to the captains' failure to provide information on their cargoes or their destinations, is a clear breach of international maritime laws.

The vessels are thought to have spent much of their time in the deep waters of the Indian Ocean, berthing at sea when they need to collect supplies of fuel and food. They have berthed in a handful of Arab countries, including Yemen.

American and British military forces are believed to be reluctant to stop and search the vessels for fear that any intervention might result in them being scuttled. If they were carrying chemical and biological weapons, or fissile nuclear material, and they were to be sunk at sea, the environmental damage could be catastrophic.

Washington and London might also want to orchestrate any raids so that they can present the ships as "evidence" that President Saddam is engaged in "material breach" of UN resolutions. This could provide the trigger for military strikes. While security sources in London last night were unable to provide information on any surveillance operation, the movement of the three ships is the source of growing concern among maritime and intelligence experts.

A shipping industry source told The Independent: "If Iraq does have weapons of mass destruction, then a very large part of its capability could be afloat on the high seas right now. These ships have maintained radio silence for long periods and, for a considerable time, they have been steaming around in ever-decreasing circles."

The ships are thought to have set sail from a country other than Iraq to avoid running the gauntlet of Western naval vessels patrolling the Gulf. Defence experts believe that, if they are carrying weapons of mass destruction, these could have been smuggled out through Syria or Jordan.

Despite hundreds of searches by UN inspectors, no evidence has yet been found of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programmes. A succession of "dossiers" presented by Downing Street has been criticised for providing inaccurate information, with the most recent one subject to ridicule because a student's 11-year-old doctoral thesis was being passed off as current intelligence. There was a further setback for Washington and London when the accuracy of satellite photographs shown to the United Nations by Colin Powell, the Secretary of State, purporting to show Iraqi officials moving incriminating evidence from a suspected site, was questioned by Hans Blix.

Mr Blix said: "The reported movement of munitions at the site could just as easily have been a routine activity as a movement of proscribed munitions in anticipation of an imminent inspection."

Attempts to link the Iraqi regime to al-Qa'ida and other Islamist groups have also been met with scepticism. The UN says, though, that Iraq has failed to account for 1,000 tonnes of chemical agents from the war against Iran; to reveal the whereabouts of 6,500 missing chemical rockets; to produce evidence it has destroyed 8,500 litres of anthrax; and to account for 380 rocket engines smuggled into Iraq with chemicals used for missile propellants and control systems.

Intelligence reports, and some Iraqi defectors, have maintained that incriminating material and documents relating to weapons of mass destruction have been buried in remote parts of the country and have also been hidden in a variety of locations including homes of officials and scientists, as well as mosques. There have also been claims that chemical and biological products have been smuggled into Syria.


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: 200211; 200302; 20030219; 20031018; alnashiri; alqaeda; armssmuggling; blix; bokastar; cristi; egypt; hansblix; indianocean; interdiction; iraq; iraqiwmd; jordan; maritimesecurity; mysteryships; navy; nova; portsaid; portsecurity; radiosilence; sara; seaportsecurity; ships; syria; tonga; twillinger; warlist; wmd; wmdships; yemen
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1 posted on 02/18/2003 4:47:00 PM PST by knak
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To: knak
Sink 'em. Ask questions later.
2 posted on 02/18/2003 4:48:08 PM PST by July 4th
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To: knak
Sounds like a job for the Seals - via fast attack or SF subs.
3 posted on 02/18/2003 4:50:16 PM PST by guitfiddlist
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To: knak
This could prove interesting.

Have to see how it plays out.

4 posted on 02/18/2003 4:50:54 PM PST by evad (It IS a Crusade)
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To: knak
The Independent seems to be doing its very best to commit treason.

This is the second egregious leak in two days. And the leak yesterday wasn't disinformation, because it was released by German prosecutors during a trial, not by some tip from the CIA.

Loose lips sink ships.
5 posted on 02/18/2003 4:51:05 PM PST by Cicero
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To: knak
flying under the flags of three different countries

France, Germany and Russia?

6 posted on 02/18/2003 4:51:12 PM PST by mountaineer
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To: knak
I think we have submarines that could provide the necessary surprise to board these ships.
7 posted on 02/18/2003 4:51:28 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: knak
Potentially deadly WMD-laden cargo ships at sea?

No problem. Cap'n Blix will nab 'em.
8 posted on 02/18/2003 4:52:20 PM PST by Oldeconomybuyer (Let's Roll)
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To: knak
What will they do now that this is on the internet, in the Independent, and all over the place? It is no longer a secret. Their movements NOW in light of this exposure will be interesting.

Maybe they are also carrying a 'package' at North Korea's request, too. NK said they would attack Americans everywhere with weapons of mass destruction.

9 posted on 02/18/2003 4:52:26 PM PST by AmericanInTokyo (Heading to the store to turn in my unused Perrier for a refund; gonna' buy British scones instead)
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To: Dog Gone
why hasn't anyone checked them?
10 posted on 02/18/2003 4:52:31 PM PST by knak
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To: Travis McGee; Lion's Cub; Squantos; Howlin; Miss Marple; Alamo-Girl
fyi
11 posted on 02/18/2003 4:53:08 PM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: knak
Sounds like a James Bond 007 movie plot. Maybe Tony Blair can Play Bond and Dubya can be his American buddy, Felix Leitner.
12 posted on 02/18/2003 4:54:01 PM PST by friendly
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: knak
...The vessels left port in late November....

???? what port??? this report smells bad to me.

14 posted on 02/18/2003 4:55:18 PM PST by bert
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To: knak
There isn't any point in revealing a smoking gun until we're fully in position to do something about it. In fact, it could be rather detrimental.
15 posted on 02/18/2003 4:55:36 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: mountaineer
France, Germany, and China/North Korea...
16 posted on 02/18/2003 4:55:38 PM PST by Darksheare (<----- I am the THIRD man on the grassy knoll!)
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To: knak
Maybe they can go dock in France.

Actually this is very serious. And if they know of three ships, there may be others. I hope we are keeping all suspect ships thousands of miles from our shores.
They could have anything, that they could release close to shore, not to mention some missiles filled with chemical or biological weapons -- which we can't intercept, because the Democrats and Clinton kept National Missile Defense on the drawing board, instead of developing and deploying it.
17 posted on 02/18/2003 4:56:18 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: piasa
i'm begining to think a moderate application of fissile material to this situation would be not only appropriate, but entertaining. pictures at 11.
18 posted on 02/18/2003 4:56:42 PM PST by glock rocks (honest. i took the meds. really.)
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To: knak
American and British military forces are believed to be reluctant to stop and search the vessels for fear that any intervention might result in them being scuttled. If they were carrying chemical and biological weapons, or fissile nuclear material, and they were to be sunk at sea, the environmental damage could be catastrophic.

Ok then we watch them until after the regime change. Then we make them port in Iraq, where they will be searched.

19 posted on 02/18/2003 4:56:55 PM PST by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: knak
Sink 'em.
20 posted on 02/18/2003 4:57:06 PM PST by Redcloak (Jn th lton t Prvnt the bs of nnssrl Lngth, Vrbs nd Nnsnsl Tg Lns)
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To: knak
FUll spead into a coast would be as damaging as airplanes into buildings
21 posted on 02/18/2003 4:57:18 PM PST by hoosiermama
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To: Cicero
"Loose lips sink ships." pun intended?
22 posted on 02/18/2003 4:58:19 PM PST by Mark Felton
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To: Cicero
Loose lips sink ships.
-----

Well, actually these ships would be the right ones to sink. ;)
23 posted on 02/18/2003 4:58:22 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: knak
Wow. Nothing else I can say - if this is indeed the case. Like a movie, this whole thing.
24 posted on 02/18/2003 4:58:59 PM PST by Publius Maximus
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To: knak
I'm sure that this is all just a coincidence. Surely if there were any chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons, Hans Blix would have sniffed them out by now.

Perhaps the Germans and the French would care to sieze the ships for us? We'd have them either way. If they take the ships intact, we'll have our smoking guns. If all three ships sink, we'd have caught them in a cover up.

The plot thickens...

25 posted on 02/18/2003 4:59:19 PM PST by Steel Wolf
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To: knak
These ships have maintained radio silence for long periods and, for a considerable time, they have been steaming around in ever-decreasing circles.

Hmm, so they'll crash together soon?

26 posted on 02/18/2003 4:59:24 PM PST by Shermy
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To: knak
They could release their deadly cargo, if threatened.

And as the article said, if we sank them, they may contaminate the oceans, killing all life, and spreading disease, which may spread to humans.

There is a good reason for the name WMD.
27 posted on 02/18/2003 4:59:52 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: bert
(maybe they are full of garbage...doomed to roam the seas...)Seriously, if this has been going on for three months, it seems a bit suspect.
28 posted on 02/18/2003 5:01:25 PM PST by jerseygirl
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To: Shermy
Mi<"they have been steaming around in ever-decreasing circles." Hey...someone pull the plug, quick.
29 posted on 02/18/2003 5:02:48 PM PST by goodnesswins (Thank the Military for your freedom and security....and thank a Rich person for jobs.)
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To: FairOpinion
oh gosh, duh, I wasn't thinking obviously!
30 posted on 02/18/2003 5:07:21 PM PST by knak
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To: hoosiermama
"FUll spead into a coast would be as damaging as airplanes into buildings"

Not really sure about this, but if they are outside normal shipping lanes, would not a few nukes kill off any WMD that might get loosed into the atmosphere or water supply?

31 posted on 02/18/2003 5:07:24 PM PST by JustAnAmerican
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To: knak
A three hour tour....
The weather started getting rough,
The Iraqi ship was tossed,
If not for the savageness of the moslem crew,
Scott Ritter would be lost.

Has anyone seen Ritter anyway?   I have a hunch he's the Gilligan on this boat.
32 posted on 02/18/2003 5:08:43 PM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: knak
Good find! Interesting ploy.
33 posted on 02/18/2003 5:09:14 PM PST by DoctorMichael (Tag THIS!)
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To: knak
One more chapter out of Jeff Head's book
34 posted on 02/18/2003 5:09:57 PM PST by NorseWood
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To: Cicero
I don't know. We've got three ships sailing around, violating of international maritime law. They had to figure they would be noticed.

How much enviro damage can they do?
I think smallpox and the chemicals would be toast. I know anthrax spores to be a tad hearty, but months in salt water, so diluted, I don't see how blowing them to smithereens would be a big deal.

35 posted on 02/18/2003 5:10:21 PM PST by lizma
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To: knak
Demand to board them. If they refuse or try to scuttle, vaporize them.
36 posted on 02/18/2003 5:10:36 PM PST by LibWhacker
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To: GirlShortstop
"Ride Captain, ride, upon your mystery ship......."
37 posted on 02/18/2003 5:13:11 PM PST by tet68 (Jeremiah 51:24 ..."..Before your eyes I will repay Babylon for all the wrong they have done in Zion")
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To: lizma
Make them go to port, in France.
38 posted on 02/18/2003 5:13:57 PM PST by tet68 (Jeremiah 51:24 ..."..Before your eyes I will repay Babylon for all the wrong they have done in Zion")
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To: AmericanInTokyo
Maybe they are also carrying a 'package' at North Korea's request, too.

I heard today (Fox,Rush,CSPAN?) that the ship that delivered the scuds to Yemen, then went to Germany. There it loaded a dual use(pesticide/Sarin acc.to rep.) cyanide compound bound for the DPRK. That one is also being kept under surveillance.

39 posted on 02/18/2003 5:14:32 PM PST by StriperSniper (Frogs are for gigging)
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To: LibWhacker
agree!
40 posted on 02/18/2003 5:15:22 PM PST by jerseygirl
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To: FairOpinion
. And if they know of three ships, there may be others.

I read earlier today - on FR, but I don't remember the post, unfortunately - that there are way more than three. Perhaps these three are the biggest and possibly most dangerous and most connected to Iraq, but there are several others, which have been scattered across the seas for several months now. I think some of them are believed to belong directly to Al Qaeda.

41 posted on 02/18/2003 5:15:37 PM PST by livius
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To: knak
Darn!
Aren't there areas of the oceans where ships are known to disappear without a trace?

Wait.
Are we even sure these ships exist?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

42 posted on 02/18/2003 5:16:11 PM PST by Publius6961 (p>)
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: knak
...spent much of their time in the deep waters of the Indian Ocean, berthing at sea when they need to collect supplies of fuel and food. They have berthed in a handful of Arab countries, including Yemen.

What exactly, is "berthing at sea?" Either you tie up or you don't. Are they coming close to a harbor and requesting supplies? Are these Arab countrues (Yemen) ferrying stuff out to them?

If this story is true as reported, the good news is that we know their precise lat and long every minute of every day. And we can take care of them as needed. This is a perfect target for a tacticical nuke. We have to kill the biologicals and obliterate the chemicals, don't we?

44 posted on 02/18/2003 5:17:50 PM PST by Semper911 (I used to have another tagline. This is my new one.)
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To: knak
Bloop! What's that sound? Oh, the sound of WMD's being tossed over board because of gross negligence by the "authoritative shipping industry sources" and the Independent. They just tipped the scum off. Thanks a lot guy's!!!!!!!!!!!!!
45 posted on 02/18/2003 5:18:27 PM PST by Nexus (I hope we started boarding an hour ago...)
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To: Cicero
Intentional leak...
count on it.

We are telegraphing once again to SEVERAL WORLD powers that we KNOW where they are at all times and exactly what they are doing...

KIM JONG, RUSSIA AND CHINA... espcially.
This is the equivalent of a shot across the bow... and count on the fact that there will be more of such... and soon.

They laugh and say, "The Americans only know of three?" When we all know that Al Quada related businesses had at one point upwards of three hundred such vessels (purchased from russia and china's cosco?).

The game is afoot. Sit back and have a beer.
btw... nice screen name.
46 posted on 02/18/2003 5:19:43 PM PST by Robert_Paulson2 (clintonsgotusbytheballs?)
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To: KEYSTONE
73 Iraqis sailed out to history.....
47 posted on 02/18/2003 5:19:47 PM PST by tet68 (Jeremiah 51:24 ..."..Before your eyes I will repay Babylon for all the wrong they have done in Zion")
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To: mountaineer
that was funny.
48 posted on 02/18/2003 5:20:05 PM PST by Robert_Paulson2 (clintonsgotusbytheballs?)
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To: livius
"I think some of them are believed to belong directly to Al Qaeda."

Yup. I believe I read there were 15 Al-Qa'ida ships.

Couldn't chemical/bio laden scuds launched from freighters into Washington, etc, cause a lot of havoc.

49 posted on 02/18/2003 5:20:30 PM PST by blam
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To: FairOpinion
You give us humans too much capability. The Indian or any other ocean is more than up to to the job of handling anything on those ships. A few pounds or a few hundred pounds of fissionable material would be nothing to an Ocean. How many nuclear subs have gone down? If the thing was filled to the brim with anthax, or VX or anything, it would amount to next to nothing in a ocean, maybe 1 part per quadillion. I laughed when I read it. What's up - who know?
50 posted on 02/18/2003 5:21:34 PM PST by TheHound
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