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Illegal Aliens Eligible for Social Security Benefits
Fox ^ | 2/19/03 | Matt Hayes

Posted on 02/19/2003 8:55:02 PM PST by hoosierskypilot

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:35:33 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Annie was an ethnic Chinese born in Malaysia who had legally emigrated to the U.S. decades ago. She entered my law office with her mother, who clutched a well-worn copy of a Chinese language book called What You Need to Know About Life in America that is eventually encountered by most immigration lawyers.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: aliens; covet; coveting; enemywithin; governmenttheft; illegalimmigration; illegals; legalplunder; nofreelunch; plunder; redistributingwealth; serfdom; serfs; socialism; socialsecurity; theft; thewelfarestate; welfarestate
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1 posted on 02/19/2003 8:55:02 PM PST by hoosierskypilot
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To: hoosierskypilot
I am furious over this stuff. What are we going to do?
2 posted on 02/19/2003 9:01:13 PM PST by maranatha
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To: hoosierskypilot
The treaty, which is unique in that it provides a foreign government Social Security money even for those of its citizens who have worked illegally in America, may be timed to coincide with the 2004 elections.
W to Republicans- "Yeah it sucks, but what are you going to do about it?  BWAAHAAHAAHAA!!!"
 

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

3 posted on 02/19/2003 9:09:28 PM PST by South Hawthorne
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To: hoosierskypilot
Hoosier,

You need to speak to Rep. Dana Rohrabacher!

He's MY Rep BUT! Went to my first-ever "town hall meeting." and it was quite an eye-opener.

Among other things, he had a story about a relative requesting help regarding a employee foreign worker who went back to their country and couldn't get back in.

Turns out the relative owned a car wash and the worker was in the country on a visa for highly skilled workers ... doctors, scientists . Says he couldn't do it ... why would someone with that type of visa be working in a car wash?

Good question.
4 posted on 02/19/2003 9:13:37 PM PST by LNewman
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To: maranatha
THIS JUST PUTS ME OVER THE TOP, I'M SORRY!! What is going ON with this administration's determination to GIVE AWAY this country on our backs?
5 posted on 02/19/2003 9:20:12 PM PST by ysoitanly
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To: ysoitanly
And we can't seem to find the bucks to fund care in our system for our VETERANS???????????????????????
6 posted on 02/19/2003 10:13:06 PM PST by NMFXSTC
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To: ysoitanly; Owl_Eagle; maranatha; FITZ; janetgreen; madfly; Tancredo Fan
I should have taken a blood pressure pill before reading this. Too late now, my blood is boiling. This is absolutely outrageous. Now they won't even have to sneak into the US to freeload, we'll just mail them the checks in Mexico. The inmates truly are running the assylum.
7 posted on 02/19/2003 10:16:17 PM PST by holyscroller (Why are Liberal female media types always ugly to boot?)
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To: holyscroller
You should have also looked for any sort of credibility in the report via the name of the person passing his information on to the reporter...there isn't one.

The Bush administration is negotiating a deal with Mexico to pay SS benefits to people who worked in the US legally, then moved back to Mexico.

This is already being done with several other nations, but Mexico would by far be the largest recipient of payments. The Mexican government pushed for similar benefits for illegal aliens, but the administration refused.

Note the particular choice of words used by the author when he says that the 1996 act had "saved" American taxpayers a certain amount of money.

This money is taken out of people's paychecks who worked here legally, with the understanding that it would be paid back, his phrasing seems to indicate that this is money that belongs to the government, and not to the very people that it is going back to.
8 posted on 02/19/2003 10:25:57 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: NMFXSTC
will give the Mexican government at least $345 billion in Social Security

That $345 billion would go a long way to helping California and Texas with their very large state budget deficits too. Americans no longer count except when it comes to paying taxes, these are some pretty expensive votes!

9 posted on 02/20/2003 11:53:23 AM PST by FITZ
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To: maranatha
The treaty, which is unique in that it provides a foreign government Social Security money even for those of its citizens who have worked illegally in America, may be timed to coincide with the 2004 elections.

Well, Lots of Freepers who are blindly enamored with Bush will continue to ignore his socializing of the US, (Medicare and SSI), his leaving our borders undefended to the happiness of the nightly massive invasion of foreigners. They will continue to praise him for being so much better than Clinton was UNTIL THE BILLS START COMING IN!

Only then will they realize what fools they have been. The billion dollars in Medicare to border hospitals is the closest thing I have seen to foreign aid for Mexico that didn't have to go throught the Committee. Slick move, just as good as a democrat would have done.

He knows that we have short memories and by doing a couple of good publicity moves just before the election all will be forgiven by most Republicans.

10 posted on 12/02/2003 3:37:53 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: B4Ranch
He knows that we have short memories and by doing a couple of good publicity moves just before the election all will be forgiven by most Republicans.

And the more clownish the Democrat Presidential candidates act, the more Bush can do this stuff and not fear being rejected by us desperate conservatives at election time.

11 posted on 12/02/2003 3:54:50 PM PST by Lizavetta (Savage was right. Extreme liberalness = mental disorder)
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To: maranatha
If there's anything I hate worse than a bleeeding heart liberal, it's a bruised, bitching turnip.
12 posted on 12/02/2003 4:02:58 PM PST by Old Professer
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To: Lizavetta
Leaving the borders open is, to me, the act of a traitor. Mexico's lower class are flooding into America. Illegals take up one third of our prisons. Domestic debt has piled up to the tune of $35 trillion -- the highest ever, at 3.5 times GDP.

I'll vote third party for sure.

13 posted on 12/02/2003 4:07:55 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: hoosierskypilot
The Bush administration has reportedly completed a draft of a treaty between the U.S. and Mexico that will give the Mexican government at least $345 billion in Social Security payments for Mexicans who have worked in the U.S. legally and illegally. The treaty, which is unique in that it provides a foreign government Social Security money even for those of its citizens who have worked illegally in America, may be timed to coincide with the 2004 elections.



This must be stopped!

What the hell is wrong with this guy?
14 posted on 12/02/2003 4:09:31 PM PST by WhiteGuy (I oppose big government. - Paul / Tancredo 2004)
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To: hoosierskypilot
There are no words to define my disgust over the issues relating to illegal aliens. This simply caps a illogical agenda that give those who are criminal trespassers more rights and priveleges than I have a a legal natural born citizen. The liberal socialist leftists are making sure that they know how to exploit every loophole there is and we the good people are left to foot the bill and service the tab! Something absolutely has to be done to recind this evil legislation. I smell a MEXICAN RAT! and most certainly a Chinese one as well! This thread should run off the chart with angry citizens voicing their outrage demanding that this be stopped immediately. We cannot continue to support third world economies to this extent; I demand it STOP NOW! Here is one step farther down the trail; NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION! End FINIS!
15 posted on 12/02/2003 4:24:03 PM PST by winker
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To: hoosierskypilot
Once again I appeal to the citizens to push this thread over the top edge. Flood Washington D.C. with e-mail expressing your outrage over your and my tax money being thrown down a "GREASER HOLE"
16 posted on 12/02/2003 5:26:54 PM PST by winker
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To: hoosierskypilot
I guess someone has to point this out every time one of these articles is posted, but SSI (Supplemental Security Income) is NOT a part of the Social Security program. SSI benefits come from general tax revenues, NOT from Social Security funds. Here's the link:

http://www.ssa.gov/notices/supplemental-security-income/

17 posted on 12/02/2003 6:01:01 PM PST by freedox
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To: hoosierskypilot
I have known about this stinking rotten scam for years. The worst is when well to do Chinese get their parents on this program. Other nationalities too.
18 posted on 12/02/2003 6:24:58 PM PST by dennisw (G_d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: ysoitanly
Look people, just because they are in our country illegally, doesn't mean they don't shop at Wal-Mart and contribute to our economy. If we could only get another 75 million in here, I'm sure the ecomomy would really pickup. It's good for Wal-Mart, it's good for you.

I suggest we all just go back to work and pay our taxes.

Go Bush!

19 posted on 12/02/2003 6:29:36 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: hoosierskypilot
>>The Bush administration has reportedly completed a draft of a treaty between the U.S. and Mexico that will give the Mexican government at least $345 billion in Social Security payments for Mexicans who have worked in the U.S. legally and illegally. <<

Why would the President of a soverign nation sacrifice the wealth of his own people for the benefit of the people of Mexico? Do you think he wants to destroy public funding of social security once and for all?
20 posted on 12/02/2003 10:59:58 PM PST by Risa
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To: NMFXSTC
>>And we can't seem to find the bucks to fund care in our system for our VETERANS???????????????????????<<

That our governing classes refuse to fund care for our veterans makes me sick to my stomach.

They can't do this! The social security fund belongs to the US citizens who contribute to the fund----no one gave George Bush a mandate to raid it for the benfit of a people who already burden US citizens with hefty costs.
21 posted on 12/02/2003 11:05:43 PM PST by Risa
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Look people, just because they are in our country illegally, doesn't mean they don't shop at Wal-Mart and contribute to our economy.

Yeah, with food stamps and welfare checks!

Hell, why don't we just open our borders wide open then.

Really, the problem is that a disproportionate number of Ilegals are getting some sort of local, state, or federal assistance...Not to mention overwhelming our public educational system, hospitals, courts, justice system, etc.

These illegals are suffocating our economy. I have to say I totally disagree with your perception to this well known problem we have with illegal immigration.
22 posted on 12/02/2003 11:10:33 PM PST by Pro-Bush (Homeland Security + Tom Ridge = Open Borders --> Demand Change!)
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To: B4Ranch
>>Well, Lots of Freepers who are blindly enamored with Bush will continue to ignore his socializing of the US, (Medicare and SSI), his leaving our borders undefended to the happiness of the nightly massive invasion of foreigners.<<

Well, it's kind of hard to imagine an alternative--the Democrats are rabid immigration expansionists, too.

23 posted on 12/02/2003 11:16:32 PM PST by Risa
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To: winker
>>The liberal socialist leftists are making sure that they know how to exploit every loophole there is and we the good people are left to foot the bill and service the tab!<<

It's not only Democrats. George Bush is an immigration expansionist. The immigration lawyers praise George Bush as an immigration 'radical,'and have great expectations of him. And numerous other Republicans, such as Jim Kolbe, Orrin Hatch, Jeff Flake, John McCAin, and so on, are open- borders advocates, too. (Cheap labor keeps inflation down--keeping inflation down protects the value of the massive amounts of capital held by the supra-rich.)
24 posted on 12/02/2003 11:25:09 PM PST by Risa
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To: hoosierskypilot
BUMP this outrage to the top.
Thank God for Fox News.

I will be bumping this in the AM for the morning crew.
25 posted on 12/02/2003 11:34:39 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Pro-Bush
I guess I should have added the sarcasm tag.........
26 posted on 12/03/2003 12:01:25 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: Joe Hadenuf
My bad, I initially thought that was not of your character, based on your previous posts.
27 posted on 12/03/2003 12:05:00 AM PST by Pro-Bush (Homeland Security + Tom Ridge = Open Borders --> Demand Change!)
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To: Pro-Bush
I have to say I totally disagree with your perception to this well known problem we have with illegal immigration.

You read the below and thought I was serious? LOL...

Look people, just because they are in our country illegally, doesn't mean they don't shop at Wal-Mart and contribute to our economy. If we could only get another 75 million in here, I'm sure the ecomomy would really pickup. It's good for Wal-Mart, it's good for you.

I suggest we all just go back to work and pay our taxes.

28 posted on 12/03/2003 12:06:11 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: Risa
What is so difficult about considering a third party that won't turn America into a socialist slave of the United Nations? That is where the Dems and Reps are leading us.
29 posted on 12/03/2003 2:41:04 AM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: Joe Hadenuf; Risa; maranatha
Okay Joe, I have had enough of your ignorant speech,"It's good for Wal-Mart, it's good for you."

I have seen you post this exact reply too many times. I finally decided to look up the figures of just what it costs us to support these parasites.

According to El Paso mayor Judge Chuck Mattox, this flow of illegal aliens cost $14 million in local taxes in the past year. San Diego County supervisor Dianne Jacob estimated that the illegal alien costs in her jurisdiction amount to $230 million annually, $50 million alone for health care. (Source: The Dallas Morning News, September 25, 1998)www.fairus.org/html/042txill.htm

(Washington, DC) A new study by the U.S. Census Bureau has revealed that an amnesty of illegal aliens, or any policy of the same effect, will cost U.S. taxpayers a whopping $30 billion! (Washington Times, 9/6/01, A1) www.uwsa.com/pipermail/uwsa/2001q3/028775.html

'One and only' amnesty in 1986 cost taxpayers a bundle • The 1986 amnesty of some 3 million illegal aliens cost taxpayers about $78 billion over the first ten years. (Center for Immigration Studies, May 1997) www.balkanunity.org/immigrat/english/aflcio.htm

Georgia insight April 18, 2003 ________________________________________________________ Illegal Aliens: Economic Burden to Taxpayers The illegal alien situation is a very real national security threat and an economic burden the likes of which we’ve never seen before. Have you heard?

(a) Pregnant illegal aliens have their babies in U.S. hospitals that are required by law to treat them without charge to the parents. Of course, taxpayers pay for it.

(b) Mexicans with serious health problems are deliberately sent to the U.S. when Mexican hospitals learn they can’t pay and don’t have insurance. U.S. hospitals along the Mexican border provide illegal aliens at least $200 million a year in free emergency care. In the four border states 77 hospitals face medical emergencies.

(c) Florida’s Hospital Association provided illegal aliens $40.5 million in medical care in 2002. How would elected officials fix all this? Senator John McCain’s bill would gouge taxpayers for the entire amount.

(d) Food stamps to illegal aliens cost taxpayers big bucks. In 1996 Ohio officials discovered a Jordanian and his uncle had deposited $24 million in purchased food stamps in their food and video store bank accounts.

Terrorists’ Sneak-Point: Canadian and Mexican Borders

· April 7th The Washington Times reported at least 14 al Qaeda terrorists are in Mexico working with Mexican organized crime groups to infiltrate the U.S. from Mexico. U.S. Border Patrol officials said a diary written in Arabic was found last month in a backpack on a southern Arizona trail frequently used by illegal aliens. That diary contained names and telephone numbers of individuals in Canada and Iran.

Georgia Taxpayers Foot the Bill

· Healthcare. The Georgia Department of Community Health reported some of the startling cost to taxpayers that foot the bill for illegal aliens who tap into American generosity. In the year 2000, there were 5,133 recorded births to illegal aliens in Georgia. That cost the state $13 million. In 2001, 9,528 births to illegal aliens cost taxpayers $23 million. Just over halfway through 2002, there were already more births to illegal aliens than in all of 2001, at an exorbitant cost to taxpayers. You do the math.www.georgiaeagle.org/index.php?

where=insight&ID

Mass Illegal Aliens Cost American Taxpayers $69 Billion Net and 2 Million Jobs in 1997 The nearly 26 million legal and illegal immigrants settling in the United States since 1970 cost taxpayers a net $69 billion in 1997 alone, in excess of taxes those immigrants paid. This represents a cost of $260 in additional taxes paid by each U.S. resident or $1,030 in additional taxes paid by each family of four. This cost is a substantial increase over the net immigration costs of $65 billion in 1996, $51 billion in 1994, $44 billion in 1993, and $43 billion in 1992.

www.alpinesurvival.com/immigration.html

The Costs of Illegal Aliens

According to one estimate, the cost of providing federally-mandated health care to illegal immigrants is between $1.5 billion and $2 billion annually. Lawmakers still lack an accurate assessment of the actual cost to border states.

http://www.carryingcapacity.org/huddlenr.html

Cost of Immigration to American Taxpayers in 1997

Mass Immigration Cost American Taxpayers $69 Billion Net and 2 Million Jobs

in 1997

Study by Dr. Donald Huddle Reports Legal Immigration of over 1 Million Per Year Accounts for over 62% of Costs

State Costs to Taxpayers are Also Soaring (1996 Net Costs % up from 1992):

California: $28 billion up 35%

New York: $14 billion up 29%

Texas: $7 billion up 37%

Florida: $6 billion up 77%

The first study of the net cost of immigration to American taxpayers in 1997 conducted by Dr. Donald Huddle, Professor Emeritus of Economics at Rice University, found that:

The nearly 26 million legal and illegal immigrants settling in the United States since 1970 cost taxpayers a net $69 billion in 1997 alone, in excess of taxes those immigrants paid. This represents a cost of $260 in additional taxes paid by each U.S. resident or $1,030 in additional taxes paid by each family of four. This cost is a substantial increase over the net immigration costs of $65 billion ins 1996, $51 billion ins 1994, $44 billion in 1993, and $43 billion in 1992.

Over 62% of the net national cost of immigration in 1996, $40.6 billion, was attributable to legal and legalized (amnesty) immigrants. Illegal immigration generates about 38%, $24 billion of the total net cost. Legal immigration levels are over one million per year, and rising.

During 1996, approximately 2.3 million predominantly low-skill American workers were displaced from their jobs due to the continued heavy influx of immigrant workers since 1970. Taxpayers paid more than $15.2 billion in public assistance for those displaced workers in 1996, including Medicaid, Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), unemployment compensation, and food stamps.

A net deficit of $8.5 billion dollars to the Social Security system in 1996 is attributable to the economic impact of the foreign-born population. Continued mass immigration threatens the solvency of the Social Security system.

Net cumulative costs for the 1998-2007 decade are projected to reach $932 billion, an average of $93.2 billion per year, even with recent changes in welfare and immigration policies and a prosperous economy, if current mass immigration trends are allowed to continue.

Breakdown for 1997 Costs of Legal Immigration

Public Schools (Primary, Secondary, Higher, etc) $22.5 billion

Bilingual Education, ESOL, ESL Education $ 3.3 billion

Medicaid $12.8 billion

AFDC (for legal and illegal immigrant's offspring) $ 2.4 billion

Social Security $24.8 billion

Supplemental Security Income $ 2.9 billion

Housing Assistance $ 2.6 billion

Criminal Justice $ 2.6 billion

Jobs Lost by Americans $10.8 billion

Other Programs $51.4 billion

1997 Total Costs for LEGAL Immigration: $136 billion

Add 1997 total costs for illegal immigration of $41 billion and subtract an estimated $108 billion in taxes paid by all immigrants (legal and illegal) in 1997 to obtain the overall net figure of $69 billion charged to you, and other American taxpayers.

Other key facts regarding immigration are:

1.) If current immigration trends continue, the current U.S. population of

274 million will nearly double to over 500,000,000 by 2050. (The U.S. was 135 million at the end of WWII.)

2.) Harvard Professor George Borjas demonstrated that mass immigration costs American workers $133 billion per year in wage depression and job loss.

3.) The prestigious National Research Council found at the state and local levels (which bear most of the burden for K-12 education) the net fiscal burden of the average immigrant-headed household (i.e., after subtracting state and local taxes the household paid) was:

$1,484 per immigrant-headed household in New Jersey (in the 1989-1990 fiscal year); and $3,463 in California (in 1994-1995)(p. 276-277)

Why should we continue to allow our own working poor, homeless, and unemployed to continue to suffer from the job loss, wage depression, and other burdens imposed by mass immigration?

Tell your friends about this page!

You either have a comfortable position with Wal-Mart, forget about the billions they send to Mexico without stopping at Wal-Mart or you just flat don't realize the costs to American taxpayers and the future costs to our kids!

30 posted on 12/03/2003 3:41:14 AM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The Bush administration is negotiating a deal with Mexico to pay SS benefits to people who worked in the US legally, then moved back to Mexico....The Mexican government pushed for similar benefits for illegal aliens, but the administration refused.

Do you have a source for this? As far as I can tell, the agreement would apply to illegal aliens once they move back to Mexico. From a story in the Washington Times in September:

Jo Anne B. Barnhart, commissioner of Social Security, said current law requires anyone receiving benefits from the United States be a legal resident of the country being lived in at the time the benefits are paid.[Emphasis added]

She also denied reports the administration is trying to change that and allow illegal immigrants in the United States to receive benefits.

"Any totalization agreement that would be signed with Mexico would not have anything to do with immigration," the administrator said.

But witnesses and lawmakers said the law still allows an illegal Mexican immigrant to earn credits in the United States then return to Mexico and receive benefits from the U.S. government, since he would then be living legally in his home nation.

This money is taken out of people's paychecks who worked here legally, with the understanding that it would be paid back, his phrasing seems to indicate that this is money that belongs to the government, and not to the very people that it is going back to.

The money you and I pay into Social Security doesn't belong to us. It funds the retirement of current retirees. We do this in the expectation that future generations will fund our retirement.

Does this "compact between generations" apply to noncitizens who work here for several years then leave? Assuming they were here legally, my belief is that we owe them something, but not necessarily full participation in Social Security. Just my opinion.

31 posted on 12/03/2003 5:23:26 AM PST by AzJohn
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To: freedox
I guess someone has to point this out every time one of these articles is posted, but SSI (Supplemental Security Income) is NOT a part of the Social Security program. SSI benefits come from general tax revenues, NOT from Social Security funds. Here's the link:

There are no Social Security funds.



    " The proceeds of both [employee and employer] taxes are to 
    be paid into the treasury like other internal revenue 
    generally, and are not earmarked in any way."  Helvering v 
    Davis 301 US 619, 635  (1937). 

    "The proceeds of the tax imposed on employers by Title IX of 
    the Social Security Act, supra, go into the Treasury of the 
    United States without earmark, like internal revenue 
    collections generally."  Steward Machine Co. v Davis  301 US 
    548  (1936) 


32 posted on 12/03/2003 5:35:34 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: B4Ranch
I'll vote third party for sure.

And that will help how? Claiming the vote is voicing your opinion doesn't wash. The only time your opinion is heard is if your candidate is elected.

33 posted on 12/03/2003 5:46:44 AM PST by mtbopfuyn
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To: mtbopfuyn
I know this would never happen, but if Howard Dean ever jumped on board the illegal alien opposition as well as pushed a strong anti gun control campaign and tax reform, he would be a real threat. I love W on the foreign policy issues, but this immigration thing is just over the top for me, especially since his grass roots are so opposed to this kind of thing. What the F$%^?
34 posted on 12/03/2003 5:57:34 AM PST by chris1
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To: mtbopfuyn
You would rather re-elect someone who is intending on 'punishing' your children than even consider voting third party?

I've been a Republican all my life and finally I am seeing what they are doing to America.....wrecking it!

35 posted on 12/03/2003 10:13:23 AM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: B4Ranch
Okay Joe, I have had enough of your ignorant speech,"It's good for Wal-Mart, it's good for you."

LOL! Hey Bro, I think you ought to take a closer look at my #28. I couldn't agree with you more! LOL!

I guess I should have added sarcasm! Look at my screen name. It means I've HADENUF of this epic invasion of millions.

I have nothing but contempt for this government, that has allowed this titanic invasion to take place. This invasion of illegals is choking off America, and it will eventually kill this country unless we get a grip on it fast. Wal-Mart and other companies that hire these criminals are the problem. I have nothing but contempt to them too. I completely agree with your post.

The sarcasm I used is what we constantly hear from those that support this two party cartel and this federal government approved, open border time bomb!

Either we stop this endless, epic flood of illegals, or we will lose this country. End of story.

Your friend,

Joe.....

36 posted on 12/03/2003 12:23:01 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: AzJohn
"But witnesses and lawmakers said the law still allows an illegal Mexican immigrant to earn credits in the United States then return to Mexico and receive benefits from the U.S. government, since he would then be living legally in his home nation."

What "witnesses"?

"The money you and I pay into Social Security doesn't belong to us. It funds the retirement of current retirees. We do this in the expectation that future generations will fund our retirement."

I can't believe I just read that.

Taciturn acceptance of socialism as an explanation for government in FR...never thought I'd see the day.

37 posted on 12/03/2003 1:56:37 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Lancey Howard
bttt
38 posted on 12/03/2003 3:10:20 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: B4Ranch
BTTT for the truth.
39 posted on 12/03/2003 3:27:29 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Don't avoid. Read Joe Guzzardi.)
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To: hoosierskypilot
WHAT IN THE HELL!? Why, pray tell, did Republicans develop a spending fetish just as they were maneuvered into perfect position to begin dismantling the delusional Soviet style left agenda? This has gotten ridiculous! If you yearn to have your stomach turn consider this: If you divide the Federal Budget for this year by the number of people living in America it comes to over $7,500 for every man, woman, and child in the country. Not every person in America works or pays taxes, and this number doesn't include state taxes, sales tax etc. When you boil it all down it comes to this: The average American will send Uncle Sam over one million dollars in taxes over his/her lifetime. This is an absolute outrage! We need to unite and set those assrabbits in Washington straight.
40 posted on 12/03/2003 3:48:24 PM PST by Jaysun (Outlaw the word "fair")
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Joe, I'm totally in agreement with you! Strike the I have had enough of your ignorant speech
41 posted on 12/03/2003 4:14:59 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
But witnesses and lawmakers said the law still allows an illegal Mexican immigrant to earn credits in the United States then return to Mexico and receive benefits from the U.S. government, since he would then be living legally in his home nation.

What "witnesses"?

I don't know who made the specific point in that paragraph. In the Washington Times article, Barbara D. Bovbjerg, director of education, workforce and income-security issues for the GAO and John Hostettler, the subcommittee chairman, are both quoted as including illegal immigrants when considering the effect of the agreement.

Taciturn acceptance of socialism as an explanation for government in FR...never thought I'd see the day.

I'm just describing the Social Security system, not advocating it. It is not structured as a private pension plan. When we contemplate changes we have to consider the merit of the claim and also consider how much we want future generations to be taxed.

42 posted on 12/03/2003 6:43:31 PM PST by AzJohn
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To: AzJohn
"In the Washington Times article, Barbara D. Bovbjerg, director of education, workforce and income-security issues for the GAO and John Hostettler, the subcommittee chairman, are both quoted as including illegal immigrants when considering the effect of the agreement."

The Washington Times
www.washingtontimes.com

Mexico benefits accord rapped

By Stephen Dinan
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published September 12, 2003


    The General Accounting Office said yesterday the administration has not done the research to justify signing a "totalization agreement" with Mexico, which would allow Mexican nationals including some one-time illegal immigrants to collect Social Security benefits earned during their time in the United States.
    Totalization allows citizens of one country to earn credit for Social Security benefits for time they worked in another country. At retirement, the credits from both countries would be "totaled" to calculate eligibility for benefits, and each nation would be responsible for paying a part of the benefits.
    The Bush administration last year stepped up negotiations with the Mexican government to try to secure an agreement.
    But Barbara D. Bovbjerg, director of education, workforce and income-security issues for the GAO, told the House Judiciary immigration subcommittee that the Social Security Administration has failed to do basic research on Mexico's ability to cooperate in a totalization program.
    "SSA provided no information showing that it assessed the reliability of Mexican earnings data and the internal controls in place to ensure the integrity of information that SSA will rely on to pay Social Security benefits," she said.
    She also disputed the administration's estimate of totalization's cost, calling the actual cost "highly uncertain."
    The SSA predicted a first-year cost of $78 million based on an estimate of 50,000 beneficiaries currently living in Mexico and predicted the number of beneficiaries would grow sixfold over time.
    Ms. Bovbjerg, though, said those figures don't take into account the estimated 5 million illegal immigrants from Mexico currently living in the United States or the millions who have lived in the United States but have since returned to Mexico.
    The concept of a totalization agreement is not unpopular. All told, the United States has entered into 20 such agreements, ranging from the first, with Italy in 1978, to the most recent, with Australia, in 2002.
    But Rep. John Hostettler, Indiana Republican and chairman of the subcommittee, said an agreement with Mexico will be very different from earlier agreements. "None of those countries have public policies that encourage illegal immigration," he said.
    Jo Anne B. Barnhart, commissioner of Social Security, said current law requires anyone receiving benefits from the United States be a legal resident of the country being lived in at the time the benefits are paid.
    She also denied reports the administration is trying to change that and allow illegal immigrants in the United States to receive benefits.
    "Any totalization agreement that would be signed with Mexico would not have anything to do with immigration," the administrator said.
    But witnesses and lawmakers said the law still allows an illegal Mexican immigrant to earn credits in the United States then return to Mexico and receive benefits from the U.S. government, since he would then be living legally in his home nation.
    Illegal-immigrant workers often pay into Social Security through fraudulent or duplicate identification numbers, but if they can prove through tax forms that they earned the money, they would be eligible for payment.
    The agreement is not a treaty subject to the Constitution's requirement of Senate approval. It can be invalidated if either house of Congress passes a resolution of disapproval. The House and Senate would have 60 days to act. Otherwise, the agreement would go into effect.

There's the article in its entirety, would you mind pointing out exactly where your supposed quotes are?

43 posted on 12/03/2003 7:24:32 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Bovbjerg: She also disputed the administration's estimate of totalization's cost, calling the actual cost "highly uncertain."

The SSA predicted a first-year cost of $78 million based on an estimate of 50,000 beneficiaries currently living in Mexico and predicted the number of beneficiaries would grow sixfold over time.

Ms. Bovbjerg, though, said those figures don't take into account the estimated 5 million illegal immigrants from Mexico currently living in the United States or the millions who have lived in the United States but have since returned to Mexico.

Hostettler's remark: But Rep. John Hostettler, Indiana Republican and chairman of the subcommittee, said an agreement with Mexico will be very different from earlier agreements. "None of those countries have public policies that encourage illegal immigration," he said.

Granted, Hostettler's remark could have been referring to administrative difficulties, and not necessarily payments to illegals.

44 posted on 12/03/2003 8:05:10 PM PST by AzJohn
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To: B4Ranch
Thank you for pulling together all this material, B4Ranch--it's rather sobering. What are we to do?



45 posted on 12/03/2003 8:05:31 PM PST by Risa
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To: B4Ranch
I too appreciate you posting this information. The illegals are literally choking us off.

The big question is, why are we, the American people being forced, by our own government, to pay for these criminals?

46 posted on 12/03/2003 8:10:27 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: AzJohn
"Ms. Bovbjerg, though, said those figures don't take into account ..."

That's not a quote for one, and even if it were, it in no way addresses the point of paying monies to illegal immigrants.

The fact that her figures do not include those 5 million illegals means that there is no intention of paying them money.

As far as the other comment, it gives no indication whatsoever that Hostettler believes that the government is considering paying illegals either.

47 posted on 12/03/2003 8:25:35 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: AzJohn
"Barbara D. Bovbjerg, director of education, workforce and income-security issues for the GAO and John Hostettler, the subcommittee chairman, are both quoted as including illegal immigrants when considering the effect of the agreement."

"Ms. Bovbjerg, though, said those figures don't take into account the estimated 5 million illegal immigrants from Mexico currently living in the United States or the millions who have lived in the United States but have since returned to Mexico."

48 posted on 12/03/2003 8:28:20 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Joe Hadenuf; Risa
My suspicion is that Bush and the Republican party are in line with the Democrats regarding the desire for a One World Government. That is why they both are allowing the EPA, ESA, border policies, illegal rights, court cases, private property policies, NAFTA, etc to be guided by the United Nations.
49 posted on 12/03/2003 8:45:41 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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To: Joe Hadenuf; Risa
check your mail please
50 posted on 12/03/2003 8:47:50 PM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)
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