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Salmon killed by illegal drug activities?
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | February 22, 2003 | Sarah Foster

Posted on 02/22/2003 5:27:25 AM PST by Movemout

WATER WARS
Salmon killed by illegal drug activities?
Journalist's findings challenge official explanation of cause of death


Posted: February 22, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Sarah Foster
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

Recently uncovered evidence strongly suggests that the deaths of 33,000 salmon and steelhead trout during last September's fall run within 20 miles of the mouth of the Klamath River in northern California was not due simply to a lack of sufficient water, as claimed by a California state agency and environmentalists, but may have been caused by contamination from illicit drug manufacturing operations near rivers in the area.

A second overlooked factor appears to have been the temperature of the Klamath River, which was too warm for salmon. This, in turn, was caused by an unpublicized diversion of water from the much colder Trinity River that flows north to meet the Klamath at the small town of Weitchpec on state highway 96.

In a report in Monday's Siskiyou Daily News, Barry Clausen, an investigator and author, challenged the official view and urged that toxicity and diversion of water from the Trinity be seriously investigated as likely contributory factors to the mysterious die-off.

According to the Humboldt County Sheriff's Department and Larry Hand of the California Conservation Corps, a CCC crew last summer discovered several large glass flasks used for cooking methamphetamine on Ohpah Creek, a tributary of the Klamath River, just 21 miles from the mouth of the river. The flasks had been left on land owned by the Simpson Timber Company above the Ohpah Creek Ranch and were part of a "meth dump" – a place where unused residue and cooking utensils from meth labs are discarded.

"Could the illegal marijuana and meth producers dumping chemicals, poisons and waste above the fish kill into creeks, watersheds and river be accountable for the dead fish or at least have magnified the impact of the gill rot?" Clausen asks.

His question calls into dispute the official position of the California Department of Fish and Game detailed in a 63-page study released in early January. As WorldNetDaily reported, the department concluded that "too many migrating fish crowded into a depleted river, allowing the spread of two naturally occurring parasites that destroy the gills of fish. The salmon and steelhead subsequently died of asphyxiation."

The DFG report – which is a preliminary analysis – in effect casts the blame for the fish kill on the Bush administration's decision to release "too much water for farmers" during the spring without leaving "enough flow for the fish."

The study also warned that unless the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation increases flows from the Klamath Lake in coming years, "there is a substantial risk for future fish kills on the Klamath River." The bureau is the federal agency responsible for overseeing water diversions from the Klamath.

According to the DFG report, department biologists – after eliminating various factors that could have killed the fish, including drought, a late summer heat wave and a possible spill of toxics into the river – found the only difference in the Klamath River in the fall of 2002 compared to other dry years was that the number of salmon returning from their annual spawning run was high and the amount of water in the river was low.

They determined that "no substances were found at concentrations toxic to fish and therefore were not a factor in the 2002 fish kill."

Clausen quotes the report: "Soon after the fish kill manifested itself, claims were made that toxic substances may have been the cause. The North Coast Regional Water Quality Control Board Staff collected samples from five locations on Sept. 26, 2002, to determine if any toxic substances were present at concentrations toxic to fish. These scans test for a broad spectrum of organic compounds including organochlorine pesticides, PCBs, and Glyphosate."

The date of the testing poses serious problems for defenders of the DFG report.

"The samples were taken seven days after the discovery of the dead fish," Clausen points out. "The question arises – would concentrations of chemicals still be present in the alleged test areas after this length of time?"

This also was an issue that struck David Vogel, a biologist who worked for 14 years with fishery research divisions with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service before starting his own environmental consulting firm, Natural Resources Scientists, in 1990.

"They [Fish and Game] state that the fish kill began Sept. 19, and yet they say that no [water] analysis was done of any potential toxic substances until Sept. 26 – seven days later," exclaimed Vogel when interviewed by WorldNetDaily. "So they conclude that toxic substances could not have caused the fish kill, when in reality there's no way in the world you could make that conclusion when the samples were taken a full week later after the fish kill was underway. I was astounded at that."

According to Clausen, who based his conclusions on interviews with numerous law-enforcement officials, toxic substances could have been introduced either from meth production or marijuana growing, the latter being a prominent "cottage industry" in the area. Marijuana growing in itself does not produce pollutants, but does pose a hazard to fish as growers use "rat poison, insecticides and pesticides to kill unwanted animals that penetrate their operations," and these work their way into the groundwater and, ultimately, the river.

Meth labs suspect

But the major suspect for toxicity would be the production of methamphetamine, which uses a variety of chemicals obtained from various sources (such as car batteries) and varying degrees of toxicity.

A few of these, listed by Clausen, include toluene, ether, drain cleaner (sulphuric acid), car batteries (lithium), Red Devil lye (sodium hydroxide), hydrochloric acid, white gas, laundry soap and diesel fuel.

"The chemicals are then cooked in such items as Pyrex dishes or large glass flasks like the ones found on Ohpah Creek," he explains. "Coffee filters are then used to filter the items cooked."

Clausen reports that law-enforcement officials he spoke with emphasized that "the chemicals end up in creeks and watersheds," and ultimately in rivers such as the Klamath.

Several members of the DFG told him they were familiar with the chemicals listed and their potential for harm: "Of course they could kill fish. The fish have gill rot, but there is the possibility they may have survived. If there was any of these chemicals in the river at any level, it would have stressed the fish and yes, it could have been a factor in the kill."

Two persons Clausen interviewed claimed there are five meth labs between Weitchpec and the mouth of the Klamath, one being known to both law enforcement and local residents as the "Crystal Palace." When asked, one Siskiyou County law-enforcement official told him, "It the truth were known, there are probably 50 labs."

Temperature factor

The other factor Clausen checked was the temperature of the Klamath River, which Vogel has insisted was too warm for salmon migrating upstream.

As Vogel explained to WorldNetDaily, "Notably absent from the [Fish and Game] report is an analysis of the water temperatures that were present in the Upper Klamath River downstream of Irongate Dam during the time of the fish kill."

He added that the information and relevant data was available, which he had studied, and it was clearly apparent that water temperatures in the main stem of the Upper Klamath were within "lethal range" for salmon.

"They were too high," he emphasized. "So Fish and Game attempts to build an argument for increased flow below Irongate Dam during early September. But the problem with that is that even if the flow had been increased, the water temperatures were unsuitably warm for salmon in the upper river. In other words there was no place for the fish to go."

Added Vogel, "It doesn’t take much increase in water temperature to have catastrophic effects on fish. Just a couple of degrees plus or minus can make it or break it for fish."

Warm water temperatures can also foster an increase in the number of death-causing parasites. "A major contributing factor in the fish kill would be the warmer temperature of the water, which Fish and Game did not take into account," said Vogel.

The question, then, is what caused this higher temperature? Basically, there was not enough cold water flowing into the Klamath to cool it off. Cold water would normally flow from the Trinity River, which is 15 degrees cooler than the Klamath. But Clausen discovered that as much as 90 percent of the Trinity's water is being diverted to the Sacramento River.

"This water would usually flow [north] into the Klamath at Weitchpec, but instead is being diverted and utilized in the Central Basin of California," he writes.

The diversion is a major concern to the Hoopa Tribe of Indians, through whose reservation the Trinity flows. Government officials had assured tribal members that the amount of water released from the Trinity Reservoir to the Sacramento would be only 50 percent.

Instead, the amount water being released from the Trinity Reservoir at the time of the fish kill was 73 percent, according to Tom Patton, a hydraulic engineer for the Bureau of Reclamation.

Many of the local Hoopa blame the die-off on this overlooked diversion of the Trinity to the Sacramento River, rather than on the diversion of the Klamath to farms of Klamath basin upstream.

Duane Sherman, who has served on the tribal council, monitors Native American fishing rights, the Trinity River diversion, water levels, water temperature and the fish kill.

"The Trinity is 15 degrees colder than the Klamath, and if the Trinity had been flowing as we were promised, the fish would not have died," Sherman told Clausen.

Asked if he blamed the upstream farmers and ranchers, he said, "No, but something different needs to be done – and soon."


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: enviralists; klamath; klamathbasincrisis; klamathlist; landgrab; salmonkill; wodlist
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To: farmfriend
"Actually, I see these articles as a great jumping off point for discussing rural and agricultural crime."

My parents farmed Southern Indiana bottom land until 1972. I remember until 1968-70 the only thing we ever had to worry about were citzens picking corn and drunks running off the road through the fields.

Then the last few years we had all kinds of crime. Fuel theft, silage theft, arson, etc.

Now, I hear agricrime is beyond belief. Especially for corn farmers who use anhyrdous ammonia.

51 posted on 02/22/2003 5:13:53 PM PST by bigfootbob
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To: SierraWasp
Finally, when I see the anti WoD people on FR come flocking to a thread like this, acting like "don't bring any heat down on this suspected activity," I get more than a little suspicious that they are a little too generous with the advancing drug culture and I don't like it, either.

Just don't confuse "being a little too generous with the advancing drug culture" with being skeptical about the wisdom of being quick to blame them.

If we are convinced that these meth labs pose a serious risk to welfare of the nation as a whole, then we should be willing to accept exceptional measures to stop them. If the federal govenrment cannot stop people from setting up labs in remote rural areas, they may decide the only solution is to de-populate those areas, and make them limited access, moving the people closer to metropolitan and suburban areas. Now, who do you think has that exact scenario as a long term, strategic goal?

52 posted on 02/22/2003 5:47:15 PM PST by tacticalogic (Controlled application of force is the sincerest form of communication.)
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To: tacticalogic
"Now, who do you think has that exact scenario as a long term, strategic goal?"

GANG-GREEN, of course!

Law enforcement has just as much responsibility to protect us rural people as they do cityslickers. Our tax money spends just as easily as theirs does! Why must we not be as quick to blame as CA F&G are quick to shift blame?

53 posted on 02/22/2003 7:14:09 PM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
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To: tacticalogic
Actually, I think all 3, growers, cookers and the "Born Again Pagans" share that long-term strategy. This is a shared objective to enslave everyone to their evil aims of controlling the countryside due to their fallacious view of a "population bomb."

They want all of us productive descendents of the white european males with our American traditions subjugated to their Franco-Germanic tyrannical socialistic will. Yes, they may excuse their heavy handed pressuring to cleanse the rural landscape, but is that supposed to cause us to cower before them in fear of seeking and speaking out the truth of their ruthless ways?

I think NOT!!! Furthermore... I'm not confused, nor am I lacking in wisdom in blaming in view of considerable evidence, per this article. Yes, I'm judgemental and if you don't think you are, them you better get back inside the "Garden of Eden" where people didn't have to discern right from wrong.

54 posted on 02/22/2003 8:06:17 PM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
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To: SierraWasp
Why must we not be as quick to blame as CA F&G are quick to shift blame?

Because they're pursuing an agenda that is furthured by lies, and we are pursuing an agenda that is furthured by the truth. Every thing I read about conservative philosophy says that jumping to conclusion is anathema to that philosophy.

55 posted on 02/22/2003 10:10:23 PM PST by tacticalogic (Controlled application of force is the sincerest form of communication.)
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To: SierraWasp
One of the reasons the Left keeps kicking the crap out of the Right is because its members are better at making effective alliances, even if they have to hold their nose to do so. The anti-War on Drugs crowd are allies of the Klamath farmers, at least when they understand the facts, not part of some of inchoate conspiracy to steal their land. Certainly both groups could (I hope) agree that the War on Drugs has long exceeded Constitutional limits on Federal authority, just as the Endangered Species Act has.

If all the groups getting screwed by such disregard of Federal Constitutional power could get together to limit that power, and fight out policy battles like the War on Drugs at the State and local level, the Leftists might finally start losing ground. But instead, people seem to work full time attacking potential allies. There seems to be the same sort of pointless conflict at times between Christians and non-Christians at FR, yet, again, they ought to be allies against a common and ever increasing Federal threat.

56 posted on 02/23/2003 7:42:50 AM PST by Iconoclast2
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To: Iconoclast2; Grampa Dave; bigfootbob; farmfriend; marsh2
"But instead, people seem to work full time attacking potential allies."

Your point is well taken. If you'll notice, the venom in my stinging rebukes was/is aimed at the subject that has caused the most boring and over the top "flame wars" here on FR. (in recent times)

As BigFootBob will tell you, it is also based on transference from an embittering situation here in my own rural community. (he and I have been talking in the FR post office about how I can't even find a place to park in front of mine due to people abusing Prop 215)

It is NOT my intent, nor will it ever be, to damage ANY effective alliances the traditional ag industry has in the K. Falls region or anywhere else, for that matter. It WAS my intent to preempt, or at least counter the usual swarm of attacks on the WoD, using this thread as so many others have been for two reasons.
1. This article is "too legit to quit!"
2. I'm sick of the gag and vomit eternal flaming of the Wod on every thread possible at the slightest excuse to interject such browbeating by proponents of legalization!!!

They have every right to their point of view, but for too long now, they've been "Freepin" FreeRepublic and there are many of us who will not be moved and are sick of being shoved with their eternal irrational exuberance!!!

Now it appears, we can't even sit around on this thread and explore the possibilities and expressing opinions without some inordinate fear that we'll be stepping on someone's alliance building.

All this when we KNOW that the leading proponent (kerr) of the effort to shut off the "A" canal is so far the most successful and hurtful proponent of creating more lame brane dead heads like himself while driving legitimate farmers out.

Ok, you're probably right, I suppose by now the farmers and ranchers are so desperate they'll be forced to deal even with devils like this guy and his ilk. Therefore, it is suddenly no one's business on the outside as it's a question of survival... I understand that.

But still, we should be free, here on FR (subject to the owner's will) to express our opinions and ideas on at least this thread, without still another hideous domination of conversation by overzealous legalization proponents!!!

57 posted on 02/23/2003 8:39:41 AM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
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To: tacticalogic; Iconoclast2; bigfootbob
Well that's really an interesting observation about "Conservative Philosophy." Especially since this site is world famous for the three "S's"... suspicion, speculation and suposition!!!

Yet it's the world's foremost forum for Conservatism, right?

58 posted on 02/23/2003 9:04:07 AM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
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To: SierraWasp
Especially since this site is world famous for the three "S's"... suspicion, speculation and suposition!!!

The missing "S" - skepticism - is the one that counts.

59 posted on 02/23/2003 10:23:17 AM PST by tacticalogic (Controlled application of force is the sincerest form of communication.)
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To: SierraWasp
Law enforcement has just as much responsibility to protect us rural people as they do cityslickers. Our tax money spends just as easily as theirs does!

Maybe so, but I live in a rural area, and I'm not in any particular hurry to have the federal government do for me they've done for the people in the inner cities.

60 posted on 02/23/2003 10:27:24 AM PST by tacticalogic (Controlled application of force is the sincerest form of communication.)
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To: Iconoclast2
"The anti-War on Drugs crowd are allies of the Klamath farmers..."

I've been reviewing your reply some more while mowing the yard. I thought about G.W's. warning about "beware of entangling alliances." I thought about the left's favorite tactics, using consensus and collaberation. I thought of how desperately conservatives, business leaders and even farm leaders despise controversy and how the left capitalizes on that, constantly. I thought about how the same leaders pine for accuracy in media and inclusion as equals in the circles of power. (until they are caught up in "the web of inclusion")

Then I thought about how conservative communities want to believe they can be self-reliant and don't take kindly to "outsiders" even though they may have recently been through the same tactical battles. Having both won spectacularly and lost when started believing opponents might act predictably in the spirit of bettering everyone in the community, I thought about the tack the K. Falls farmers are trying.

I was almost ready to offer some unsolicited advice when I remembered the old platitude... "Wise men don't need it and fools don't heed it!" So the Waspdude, remembering the platitude and wanting to retain a good attitude, just decided to shut up!!!

P.S. The "G.W." above is George Washington, not the current incumbent of the W.H.!!!

61 posted on 02/23/2003 12:53:59 PM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
"Guess I missed something...
what chemicals are associated with growing pot ?"

What you missed is that the big money for these EnviroNAZI drug freaks is not pot, but Methamphetamines.

The waste products are quite toxic, and long lasting.

62 posted on 02/23/2003 8:04:14 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Best policy RE: Environmentalists, - ZERO TOLERANCE !!)
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To: farmfriend; 1Old Pro; 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; a_federalist; abner; aculeus; alaskanfan; ...
" I don't think it is wise to try and blame this on drug labs..."

Perhaps you're just not up with the times. - The northwest corner of California is an economically depressed area, due to the destruction of it's chief industry: logging and lumber. - This is also true of Tuolumne, Mariposa, and Calaveras Counties, and in all of the above areas Methamphetamine production is pandemic. The problem is bankrupting these counties due to law enforcement costs.

And the icing on the cake is that almost all enviros are druggies too.

63 posted on 02/23/2003 8:12:11 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Best policy RE: Environmentalists, - ZERO TOLERANCE !!)
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To: toothless; Grampa Dave
"The Mods have asked that people refrain from personal attacks."

Are you saying that you Resemble that remark? :o)

64 posted on 02/23/2003 8:19:36 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Best policy RE: Environmentalists, - ZERO TOLERANCE !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
"And the icing on the cake is that almost all enviros are druggies too."

Seems to be so. I just had a shop owner in Humboldt county tell me "We couldn't make it if we couldn't sell drugs."

65 posted on 02/23/2003 8:41:56 PM PST by nightdriver
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To: editor-surveyor
Chrystal meth sounds scary. Pot does not.
66 posted on 02/23/2003 8:43:44 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: editor-surveyor
bTTT!!!!!!!
67 posted on 02/24/2003 3:04:39 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: editor-surveyor
I find it difficult to believe that rural private property owners are having such a dificult time protecting themselves. It must be a California thing...in rural Idaho and Nevada would-be theives tend to tread very lightly on private property...they are well aware of how well armed and willing to defend private property most property owners are.
68 posted on 02/24/2003 4:34:37 AM PST by Cuttnhorse
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To: coloradan
Assuming the article is correct, this is simply more collateral damage in the War On (some) Drugs. Cosmetics, pharmaceuticals, cleaners and other chemicals are legal and produced by companies that don't have to hide their activity to stay in business.

Stop making sense.

69 posted on 02/24/2003 6:28:55 AM PST by MrLeRoy ("That government is best which governs least.")
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To: SierraWasp
"Its a good thing drugs are illegal, otherwise this might have happened."

an incoherent statement

I understood it perfectly.

70 posted on 02/24/2003 6:34:45 AM PST by MrLeRoy ("That government is best which governs least.")
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To: SierraWasp
"To: *Wod_list"

I JUST KNEW IT!!!

You just had to "Ping" all the tiresome warriors in the wearisome war on the War On Drugs (Wod)!!!

Ok, everyone interested in justice for the Klamath Farmers, here comes the blinding blizzard of B.S. from all the sympathizers with the Hemp Hippies and bitter Liberaltarians who want legalization...

Why the tizzy? Anyone, pro-WOD or anti-WOD, can read the Wod_list at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/involved?group=124.

71 posted on 02/24/2003 7:14:49 AM PST by MrLeRoy ("That government is best which governs least.")
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To: Cuttnhorse
" It must be a California thing..."

And Ore-gone, and Washed-upington. - Illegal to defend yourself. People get prosecuted for "brandishing a firearm" in their own home. - A man in Hayward, California got sent up for 15 years for shooting a pair of thieves that had turned on him with tire irons when he caught them stealing the wheels off of his truck.

Crime pays in the west.

72 posted on 02/24/2003 8:03:41 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Best policy RE: Environmentalists, - ZERO TOLERANCE !!)
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To: tacticalogic
...I live in a rural area, and I'm not in any particular hurry to have the federal government do for me they've done for the people in the inner cities.

I'm with you Tact...when I return to Idaho, I do so knowing that if anyone is stoopid enough to try to break into my place all I have to do is call the sheriff and tell him to come out and pick up the pieces and fill out the obligatory paper work. We're still civilized in rural Idaho.

73 posted on 02/24/2003 9:14:35 AM PST by Cuttnhorse
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To: SierraWasp
Well, waspman, if I had my "druthers", I'd rather see the authorities locking up violent criminals, deporting and keeping out illegals than spending our resources to prosecute "the evil weed", then we wouldn't have to worry about the cartels being in our mountains raising this crap.
74 posted on 02/24/2003 1:41:07 PM PST by AuntB (Support our troops!)
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To: Iconoclast2
Iconoclast said, "One of the reasons the Left keeps kicking the crap out of the Right is because its members are better at making effective alliances, even if they have to hold their nose to do so. The anti-War on Drugs crowd are allies of the Klamath farmers, at least when they understand the facts, not part of some of inchoate conspiracy to steal their land. Certainly both groups could (I hope) agree that the War on Drugs has long exceeded Constitutional limits on Federal authority, just as the Endangered Species Act has. If all the groups getting screwed by such disregard of Federal Constitutional power could get together to limit that power, and fight out policy battles like the War on Drugs at the State and local level, the Leftists might finally start losing ground. But instead, people seem to work full time attacking potential allies. There seems to be the same sort of pointless conflict at times between Christians and non-Christians at FR, yet, again, they ought to be allies against a common and ever increasing Federal threat."56 posted on 02/23/2003 7:42 AM PST

IT'S WORTH REPEATING...AGAIN AND AGAIN....:<)

75 posted on 02/24/2003 1:49:22 PM PST by AuntB (Support our troops!)
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To: editor-surveyor
The waste products are quite toxic, and long lasting.

That what make this whole thing sound fishy (NPI). We're talking about high-toxicity, long duration chemicals and heavy metals, in concentrations high enough to kill 130,000 big fish, and a week later there's no trace of them to be found in the water.

76 posted on 02/24/2003 4:01:11 PM PST by tacticalogic (Controlled application of force is the sincerest form of communication.)
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To: tacticalogic
" and a week later there's no trace of them to be found in the water."

There's nothing fishy about that. A river is basically a 'plug flow' system. If you wish to test the water that killed the fish, you have to go waaay down stream now. (velocity: 6'/second x 3600 sec./hour x 24 hours/day x number of days, etc.) You see, the problem up there is that there is sufficient water flowing in the rivers to make them better places to dump the stuff than dry land. In other parts of the state there is so little water that they must bury the stuff to delay it's discovery.

77 posted on 02/24/2003 4:35:05 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Best policy RE: Environmentalists, - ZERO TOLERANCE !!)
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To: AuntB; SierraWasp
" There seems to be the same sort of pointless conflict at times between Christians and non-Christians at FR..."

Is it pointless? "What fellowship hath darkness with light?"
The christians have at their disposal all of the bountiful information that the Holy Spirit constantly shares with them, while the lost have only their own ignorant, blind speculation, and their rejection of the Lord who created all the things upon which they endlessly, and fecklessly speculate.

In this case, the problem is not the 'evil weed' but a very deadly poison that they manufacture in those mountains for distribution to our children and grand children. It's not a victimless crime, the stuff is deadly.

78 posted on 02/24/2003 4:46:05 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Best policy RE: Environmentalists, - ZERO TOLERANCE !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
We've got equipment that can detect this stuff in ppb. I can believe most of it would have gone downstream, but I have a hard time believing they couldn't find any of it, even in the fish.
79 posted on 02/24/2003 4:49:20 PM PST by tacticalogic (Controlled application of force is the sincerest form of communication.)
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To: tacticalogic
"but I have a hard time believing they couldn't find any of it, even in the fish."

Says who? Of course they found it; they always find it, but it becomes a question of how it is 'reported.'

80 posted on 02/24/2003 4:55:13 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Best policy RE: Environmentalists, - ZERO TOLERANCE !!)
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To: tacticalogic
"They [Fish and Game] state that the fish kill began Sept. 19, and yet they say that no [water] analysis was done of any potential toxic substances until Sept. 26 – seven days later," exclaimed Vogel when interviewed by WorldNetDaily. "So they conclude that toxic substances could not have caused the fish kill, when in reality there's no way in the world you could make that conclusion when the samples were taken a full week later after the fish kill was underway. I was astounded at that."
81 posted on 02/24/2003 5:01:24 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Best policy RE: Environmentalists, - ZERO TOLERANCE !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
but it becomes a question of how it is 'reported.'

Sauce for the goose.

82 posted on 02/24/2003 5:17:05 PM PST by tacticalogic (Controlled application of force is the sincerest form of communication.)
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