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Iraqi Drones May Target U.S. Cities
FoxNews ^ | Feb. 24, 2003 | FoxNews

Posted on 02/24/2003 1:18:27 PM PST by FairOpinion

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:35:35 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

WASHINGTON Iraq could be planning a chemical or biological attack on American cities through the use of remote-controlled "drone" planes equipped with GPS tracking maps, according to U.S. intelligence.

The information about Iraq's unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) program has caused a "real concern" among defense personnel, senior U.S. officials tell Fox News. They're worried that these vehicles have already been, or could be, transported inside the United States to be used in an attack, although there is no proof that this has happened.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: biological; chemical; cities; defense; drones; dronesus; homeland; iraq; nuclear; terrorism; uav; weapons; wmd
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Is this what the liberals are waiting for?!
1 posted on 02/24/2003 1:18:27 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
They won't change their minds until confronted, personally, with a very painful death... Then again, maybe not even then.
2 posted on 02/24/2003 1:21:39 PM PST by RoughDobermann
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To: FairOpinion
Nope, h*ll has not frozen over yet.
3 posted on 02/24/2003 1:23:40 PM PST by abnegation (They're not just anti-Bush, they are just plain anti-American.)
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To: FairOpinion; SLB; Squantos; Travis McGee; harpseal
Also, UAVs are fairly difficult to knock out unless you have a very dedicated effort. I'm not certain, but I believe the best weapon system against a UAV is an attack helicopter.
4 posted on 02/24/2003 1:23:59 PM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: FairOpinion
Is this what the liberals are waiting for?!

Nothing will convince them. If terrorists attack they will argue that we deserved it.

5 posted on 02/24/2003 1:24:25 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (This space left intentionally blank.)
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To: FairOpinion
Well, the bright side of this is that the liberal bastions supporting the obstructionist tactics on Iraq are the targets.

They may be dead useless idiots.

6 posted on 02/24/2003 1:24:28 PM PST by pfflier
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To: FairOpinion
Boo alert.
7 posted on 02/24/2003 1:24:34 PM PST by Russell Scott
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To: RoughDobermann
The liberals will not change their minds...(severe cognitive dissonance)
They would simply blame Bush and his cabal claiming they bombed America to gain Iraqi oil fields never mind 90 qadrillion tons of evidence to the contrary...
I suggest we nuetron bomb them asap and short out their electronics
8 posted on 02/24/2003 1:24:43 PM PST by joesnuffy
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To: FairOpinion
This will not convince the liberals...

If such a thing were to occur and thousands of people were to suffer they would blame Mr Bush for not securing the borders. Simultaneously, they would complain because of Racial Profiling and demand multicultural treatment for Islamists.

So I hope you arent holding your breath waiting for liberals to 'come around'. It will not happen.

Vigilia pretium libertatis
9 posted on 02/24/2003 1:26:11 PM PST by Samurai_Jack
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To: FairOpinion
Already posted herehttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/850747/posts
10 posted on 02/24/2003 1:26:16 PM PST by Newbomb Turk ("when I was in junior high school, everyone wanted to be a Knight", KNIGHTS RULE!...)
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To: FairOpinion
This is a very real threat and shouldn't be taken lightly.

Saddam Hussein would love to take credit for any type of homeland attack against the USA.

11 posted on 02/24/2003 1:27:04 PM PST by Reagan Man
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To: RoughDobermann
They won't change their minds until confronted, personally, with a very painful death... Then again, maybe not even then.

When faced with that prospect they'll just blame Bush.

12 posted on 02/24/2003 1:27:33 PM PST by Carry_Okie (Because there are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: FairOpinion
Already in a thread here
13 posted on 02/24/2003 1:30:19 PM PST by Eala
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To: Carry_Okie
Bush needs to announce, publicly, and clearly, what the immediate, unilateral American response to any such attack would be.
14 posted on 02/24/2003 1:30:37 PM PST by TheConservator (Homines libenter quod volunt credunt.)
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To: FairOpinion
"These technologies are not terribly well proven," F. Whitten Peters, a former Air Force Secretary, told Fox News, referring to vehicles that can be used to disperse harmful agents.

Remote control and aerosol spraying are not well proven? Good grief. These things could be assembled and launched from a tiny stretch of quiet road almost anywhere, then controlled by a person in a trailing car. Scary.

MM

15 posted on 02/24/2003 1:30:43 PM PST by MississippiMan
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To: FairOpinion
Is this what the liberals are waiting for?!

They will just say we pushed them to it.

16 posted on 02/24/2003 1:31:27 PM PST by cardinal4 (Get the UN out of the US and get the US out of the UN!!)
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To: FairOpinion
Is this what the liberals are waiting for?!

Not quite. They want to see one of these "baby milk sprayers" in action over a town like Cincinatti so they can blame it on Bush.

17 posted on 02/24/2003 1:32:45 PM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: Newbomb Turk
That was apparently just the initial "breaking news", this is the entire article.
18 posted on 02/24/2003 1:33:12 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: pfflier
Yep, Hussein is killing the voters who want him to stay in power.
19 posted on 02/24/2003 1:35:01 PM PST by GraniteStateConservative
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To: FairOpinion
"These technologies are not terribly well proven," F. Whitten Peters, a former Air Force Secretary, told Fox News, referring to vehicles that can be used to disperse harmful agents.

Make 100 teams of 3 agents (Iraqi or AQ), give them 100,000 or even 500,000 dollars and 5 litres of anthrax. Each team builds 5 devices (for about 10K each) and keeps them in a safe house (300,000 dollars for property and food).

We invade Iraq and 100 teams launch 5 of these puppies with a litre of anthrax in each from a rural area.

Even with 10% success rate SH's teams have just hit 50 cities with a litre of anthrax EACH for 50 million dollars in weapons deployment costs.

Don't say it can't be done.

20 posted on 02/24/2003 1:35:35 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Take charge of your destiny, or someone else will)
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To: FairOpinion
Distribute 12 ga shells, 000 buckshot, full-bore choke.

Might recommend a mask in case you hit the little bugger, but better than spraying your entire city with Saddammabugs, eh.

21 posted on 02/24/2003 1:36:36 PM PST by sam_paine
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To: FairOpinion
So what would one of these things look like?
22 posted on 02/24/2003 1:37:00 PM PST by knak (kelly in alaska)
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To: Centurion2000
Even with 10% success rate SH's teams have just hit 50 cities with a litre of anthrax EACH for 50 million dollars in weapons deployment costs.

All victims in the region take doxycilin and fully recover, attack fails.

Of all the things we need to worry about, this is pretty low on the list.

23 posted on 02/24/2003 1:38:35 PM PST by stimpyone
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To: MississippiMan
MM:"These things could be assembled and launched from a tiny stretch of quiet road almost anywhere, then controlled by a person in a trailing car. Scary. "

-----

Precisely. I think it's much easier to do and much harder to detect, than they are presenting it. The scenario that was described in an article about a plane spraying anthrax over LA is also not as far fetched as one woul like to believe.
24 posted on 02/24/2003 1:39:05 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: knak

One possible RPV that could do the job.

25 posted on 02/24/2003 1:39:46 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Take charge of your destiny, or someone else will)
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To: stimpyone
All victims in the region take doxycilin and fully recover, attack fails.

Of all the things we need to worry about, this is pretty low on the list.

Replace Anthrax with weaponized smallpox and they might as well have dropped nukes.

26 posted on 02/24/2003 1:40:29 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Take charge of your destiny, or someone else will)
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To: FairOpinion
Nope. Over on Sheryl Crow's forum, folks are agreeing with the Washington Post article about the emerging world view that Bush is a greater threat than Saddam.
27 posted on 02/24/2003 1:41:52 PM PST by rintense (Go Get 'Em Dubya!)
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To: Centurion2000
Oh, great! Now we'll all be shooting kites out of the air!
28 posted on 02/24/2003 1:42:11 PM PST by alley cat
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To: FairOpinion
New York is full of liberals that have already forgotten and dismissed 9/11 as an abberation wholly attributable to GWB.
29 posted on 02/24/2003 1:42:18 PM PST by witnesstothefall
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To: Fred Mertz; da_toolman
This seems to me to be good reason to carry a 12 gauge 24x7
30 posted on 02/24/2003 1:42:38 PM PST by phasma proeliator (it's better to die with honor than to live without it)
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To: stimpyone
"All victims in the region take doxycilin and fully recover, attack fails."

-----

IF It's anthrax. But what if it's nerve gas, mustard gas, not to mention smallpox, which wouldn't even be detected for several days, until people are starting to show up in hospitals. By that time they also infected thousands of others.

And smallpox vaccines are still not available to the general population...

31 posted on 02/24/2003 1:42:54 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: MississippiMan
These things could be assembled and launched from a tiny stretch of quiet road almost anywhere

Or the deck of a ship...

32 posted on 02/24/2003 1:43:09 PM PST by Nexus
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To: FairOpinion; Incorrigible; wonders; Smogger; Destro; getoffmylawn; Ranger; a_Turk
There is absolutely zero chance of this type of attack against an American city. If US intelligence is seriously concerned about this Islamic entente airborne assault scenario then the West is in some real trouble now.

In a 1995 issue of Albania Briefings Mr D publishing one of the first pictures of a US Predator drone as it based from Gjader, Albania to conduct reconnaissance against Bosnian Serb mobile forces during the Bosnian war. Iraqi drones much less sophisticated now than even those early US models. Launching such an attack would be impossible for a team of Islamic entente sappers in the US.

Much more likely is a Kamikaze style wave of hundreds of drones being launched against US troop buildups in Kuwait. Armed with chemical weapons, only a handful of these getting through would put the US into a real jam. Current air-defence systems in place are not calibrated for such slow moving targets -- what is needed of course are scores of the old Quad fifties to negate this threat in theatre...

Iraqi drones attacking the US mainland? Someone needs to double check and make sure this isn't an early April 1st hoax...

The forces of freedom on the move. Europe trembles.

33 posted on 02/24/2003 1:43:45 PM PST by Fusion
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To: sam_paine
'Distribute 12 ga shells, 000 buckshot, full-bore choke.

Might recommend a mask in case you hit the little bugger, but better than spraying your entire city with Saddammabugs, eh."

I've already got my own - BUMP
but I could use a 10 gauge...

34 posted on 02/24/2003 1:44:51 PM PST by phasma proeliator (it's better to die with honor than to live without it)
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To: Fred Mertz
During my "spook" days, I did the first comprehensive anti-UAV analysis for the European Tactics and Analysis Team (ETAT), a joint-service working group that analyzes threat systems and employment tactics in that geographic region. My analysis focused on Serbian tactics against Allied UAVs over Kosovo in 1999. The report remains classified, but here are a few, generalized highights:

First, UAVs can be knocked down fairly easily with a concerted effort--and the right weapons. As I recall, NATO lost 16 UAVs in Kosovo, including U.S. Predators and a high-speed Franco-German model (CL-228?). Most of the losses occured in an area where UAVs operated frequently. The weapons of choice were anti-aircraft guns (23/60 mm, along with heavy machineguns), or man-portable SAMs. One area in southern Kosovo was nicknamed "the triangle of death" because so many losses occured in that area.

Secondly, the Serbs understood the importance of UAVs before the war began, and made a concerted effort to engage them. They even staged an air defense exercise to refine their anti-UAV tactics. However, despite these losses, the UAVs still "got through" and accomplished their mission.

I'm not sure how much credence I put in these Iraqi UAV reports, but clearly some bigwigs are worried. My biggest concern is that our air traffic control/air defense system is simply not geared for slow-moving, low-flying targets. A UAV with a Predator signature won't even register on radar at low altitude, because of its low RCS, its slow speed, and ground clutter. Additionally, we have virtually nothing to engage them with, aside from a few Stingers and Avengers now deployed in the D.C. area.

35 posted on 02/24/2003 1:45:29 PM PST by Spook86
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To: Fusion
These are NOT fairy tales. It's real:

"But Powell said U.S. intelligence sources found that one of Iraq's newest UAVs went 310 miles nonstop on autopilot in a test run. That distance is over the 155 miles that the United Nations permits, and the test was left out of Iraq's arms declaration.

Officials tell Fox that there is solid intelligence that Iraq has tested many different types of sprayers on these drones to disperse chemical and biological weapons. "

36 posted on 02/24/2003 1:47:57 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
But some experts say that even if the UAVs do get assembled for use in the United States, the chances that they could cause widespread damage are low.

Not if there's a swarm of them!!

37 posted on 02/24/2003 1:48:45 PM PST by marvlus
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To: Spook86; Squantos
Thanks.
38 posted on 02/24/2003 1:48:58 PM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: FairOpinion

Peters said in order to go undetected in the air, the UAVs would have to be small -- and therefore would not be able to carry too much of a harmful substance, and they would have to fly over densely populated areas if they want to achieve maximum casualties.

But because many large metropolitan areas such as Washington have air traffic watchers keeping an eye out for any nearby planes that have not filed a flight plan, the UAVs likely would not succeed in a large-city attack.

Actually, I disagree about the difficulty of detection.

Air traffic control radars typically operate in a "interrogate-response" mode. The ground based radar set sends out a interrogation pulse. Transponders aboard military, civil, and most general aviation airplanes receive this signal, and broadcast a coded response containing the aircraft's tail number and (usually) altitude.

ATC radar can operate in a "skin-paint" mode, which is the classic "radar" where the unit detects radio waves reflected from Things In The Sky. In addition to aircraft, the skin-paint mode also detects flocks of birds, rain, and sometimes anomalous propagation or more succintly, thin air. In addition, the lack of altitude and ID information places a severe workload on controllers. Therefore, primary radar wasn't used that often. Perhaps it is nowadays, but I have no knowledge of that.

Now, this discussion does not touch on military or police air-defense search radar, of which I have zero knowledge.

39 posted on 02/24/2003 1:49:47 PM PST by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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To: Centurion2000
Great, I've seen something like that in my son's closet.
40 posted on 02/24/2003 1:50:02 PM PST by knak (kelly in alaska)
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To: FairOpinion
(6/18/02) FBI searches L.A. coast for al Qaeda crew, cache
http://www.FreeRepublic.com/focus/news/701711/posts

(2/16/03 )FBI Seeking possible terrorists driving 'Real Transport' 18-wheeler Quebec Canada License RS7-116
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/844430/posts

(2/21/03) US Navy boards ships in hunt for Iraqi arms
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/847998/posts
41 posted on 02/24/2003 1:50:37 PM PST by Nexus
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To: Fusion
There is absolutely zero chance of this type of attack against an American city

I live in SE Michigan, Canada is across the river and would be an ideal launching pad for an attack on 4 million people.

42 posted on 02/24/2003 1:52:04 PM PST by Tripleplay
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To: FairOpinion
Limited payload + wind currents + dilution in air + inactivation by sunlight, etc. + factors necessary for initiation and progression of infection/poisoning = not as big a deal as commonly believed......
43 posted on 02/24/2003 1:54:40 PM PST by tracer (/b>)
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To: FairOpinion
You know what? Drudge sucks. Consider the difference between this ...

U.S OFFICIALS: IRAQI DRONES USING GPS TO TARGET U.S. CITIES

... and this ...

"Iraqi Drones May Target..." "Iraq could be planning..." "there is no proof ..."

The first is Drudge's headline. The second is the content of the actual story. A little less titillating, eh?

Drudge sucks.

44 posted on 02/24/2003 1:56:21 PM PST by wizzler
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To: RoughDobermann
No, if we're attacked they'll immediately start the outcry that the Bush administration failed to protect us, and the loony left will say he sanctioned the attacks to keep his numbers up. But on the other hand, when he tries to protect us against attack, he gets the following:
-Bush administration seeks to protect us via offense (making war on terrorists and their supporters) = blood for oil, warmongering fascist, etc.
-Bush administration seeks to protect us via defense = police state, end of civil liberties, etc.

They think this is some kind of game.

45 posted on 02/24/2003 1:58:23 PM PST by ellery
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To: FairOpinion
Is this what the liberals are waiting for?!

I heard the nit wits that went over to Iraq are upset because Saddam is stationing them at military installations and not at schools.

46 posted on 02/24/2003 1:58:54 PM PST by Mo1 (DC Chapter .. Patriots Rally for America IV .. on Saturday, March 1st)
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To: pfflier
Well, the bright side of this is that the liberal bastions supporting the obstructionist tactics on Iraq are the targets.

Not necessarily, arcording to this article anyway...

...the UAVs likely would not succeed in a large-city attack. It's the smaller cities and towns that would be more vulnerable.

Those smaller cities and towns might be populated by conservatives. (And of course, even cities like NYC and San Francisco have a few decent people in them, e.g. the staff of National Review, and Michael Savage, respectively. I realize you're being jocular --you are, right?)

47 posted on 02/24/2003 2:01:17 PM PST by shhrubbery!
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To: Fred Mertz
True, I'd say. Problem all around, is the back ground. There would be a whole lotta lead hitting the ground beyond the target. I do not think a rocket would have enough to lock onto, so a gatling(sp?) gun would be the way.

SR

48 posted on 02/24/2003 2:02:00 PM PST by sit-rep
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To: FairOpinion; swarthyguy; backhoe; HAL9000; yonif; JohnathanRGalt; kattracks
LINKS OF INTEREST>

***FOX NEWS.com: "IRAQI DRONES MAY TARGET U.S. CITIES" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "WASHINGTON -- Iraq could be planning a chemical or biological attack on American cities through the use of remote-controlled "drone" planes equipped with GPS tracking maps, according to U.S. intelligence. The information about Iraq's unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) program has caused a "real concern" among defense personnel, senior U.S. officials tell Fox News. They're worried that these vehicles have already been, or could be, transported inside the United States to be used in an attack, although there is no proof that this has happened. Secretary of State Colin Powell showed a picture of a small drone plane during his presentation to the U.N. Security Council earlier this month.") (February 24, 2003)

NEW IND PRESS.com - A South India News Site (PTI): "ISI TO REPLICATE 9-11 IN KASHMIR" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "NEW DELHI: In order to have a 'mini replica' of September 11 attacks in Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan's ISI has directed militants, especially of the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), to use toy planes to target Army posts and VVIPs. Quoting an interrogation report of a LeT militant arrested in the state, informed sources said that the ISI had handed over a "fleet" of four dozen such planes, capable of carrying 10-15 kg of RDX, to LeT for carrying out an attack on Army posts or helicopter gunships of the Indian Air Force.The sources said that two such planes were recovered recently from Rajouri district of Jammu region. The toy planes, which can be operated by remote control, take a set trajectory and hit a target within a range of 300 metres.The arrested militant said that the plane was displayed at a Lashkar congregation in Pakistan. The militant was unable to give any further information about the toy plane but told his interrogators that the plane had flown out of his sight during its trial, the sources said.The militant had said that the ISI wanted to repeat the September 11 bombing of the World Trade Centre towers in the US by carrying out similar attacks, though using these toy planes, the sources said. The arrested militant revealed that the ISI was also planning to destroy some of the forward Indian positions at the Line of Control and international border using these toy planes. The sources said that this way, the ISI could use the plane from across the border and try to hit a forward Indian post, though such a strike might lack precision, the sources said. The toy plane could be folded inside a small briefcase and smuggled into the Valley, the sources said and added that the two seized planes in Rajouri were meant for transporting to Jammu for carrying out attacks at important installations and VVIPs. The planes were being assembled in the Lashkar-dominated area of Muridkee in Pakistan, the sources said.") (February 3, 2003)

DEBKA.com - DEBKA FILE: "ARAFAT'S NEW TERROR WEAPON: EXPLODING TOY PLANES" (January 14, 2003)

NY POST.com: "IRAQ'S ROBO-THREAT" by Vincent Morris (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "WASHINGTON - Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein is experimenting with unmanned aerial drones to attack the United States or its allies with deadly chemical or biological weapons, Secretary of State Colin Powell charged yesterday. Powell said Saddam "has been working hard" at using drones to drop deadly toxins on people from far off.") (090902)*NOTE: The url for this news article has expired.

ANANOVA.com: "COLUMBIAN ARMY SEIZES TOY AIRPLANE 'BOMBERS'" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Colombian troops have seized nine toy airplanes that rebels were planning to use to launch remote control attacks, the army says. The model airplanes were found during an early morning raid on two camps used by the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC.") (082702)

stepping back in time...An Interesting Discussion on FREEREPUBLIC.com regarding a HINDUSTAN TIMES Article: "PAKISTAN ISI MILITANTS PLAN TO USE EXPLOSIVE LADEN 'TOY PLANE' TO HIT VIPS" (November 4, 2001)

49 posted on 02/24/2003 2:06:35 PM PST by Cindy
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To: wizzler
Well, that little difference by having that little word "may" in there. Drudge sensationalized the title. I actually saw the article at FoxNews.

At the same time, this "concern" is based on real intelligence info, as the article details it.

"But some experts say the threat is very real and should be taken seriously."

50 posted on 02/24/2003 2:07:17 PM PST by FairOpinion
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