Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt (AT THE MALL)
reuters ^ | 3/4/2003 | reuters

Posted on 03/04/2003 5:22:02 PM PST by TLBSHOW

Lawyer Arrested for Wearing a 'Peace' T-Shirt

— NEW YORK (Reuters) - A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged with trespassing at a public mall in the state of New York after refusing to take off a T-shirt advocating peace that he had just purchased at the mall.

According to the criminal complaint filed on Monday, Stephen Downs was wearing a T-shirt bearing the words "Give Peace A Chance" that he had just purchased from a vendor inside the Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, near Albany.

"I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs.

When Downs refused the security officers' orders, police from the town of Guilderland were called and he was arrested and taken away in handcuffs, charged with trespassing "in that he knowingly enter(ed) or remain(ed) unlawfully upon premises," the complaint read.

Downs said police tried to convince him he was wrong in his actions by refusing to remove the T-shirt because the mall "was like a private house and that I was acting poorly.

"I told them the analogy was not good and I was then hauled off to night court where I was arraigned after pleading not guilty and released on my own recognizance," Downs told Reuters in a telephone interview.

Downs is the director of the Albany Office of the state Commission on Judicial Conduct, which investigates complaints of misconduct against judges and can admonish, censure or remove judges found to have engaged in misconduct.

Calls to the Guilderland police and district attorney, Anthony Cardona and to officials at the mall were not returned for comment.

Downs is due back in court for a hearing on March 17.

He could face up to a year in prison if convicted.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: albanycounty; bootlegs; copyright; freespeech; givepeaceachance; intellectualproperty; johnlennon; lawyer; lawyers; mallcops; peacenikfashions; peaceniks; peaceshirt; piracy; shoppingmall; tshirts
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 401-411 next last

1 posted on 03/04/2003 5:22:03 PM PST by TLBSHOW
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
The mall acted stupidly, but within their property rights. Any business owner should have the right to decide who is on his property.
2 posted on 03/04/2003 5:24:53 PM PST by Restorer (TANSTAAFL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
Sounds like left-wing dis-information or BUNK to me.
3 posted on 03/04/2003 5:26:55 PM PST by ALASKA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
Now this is scary...if it really happened as it is written here. I'm wondering whose face was on that T-shirt!
4 posted on 03/04/2003 5:27:15 PM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
Don't care for his pacifist attitude, but wearing the shirt is his right.

I'd be more worried about the rotten kids with four-letter words on their clothing, and I see plenty of that.

Beyond that, security guards invariably are cop wannabees...I'd tell them to take a hike, too.
5 posted on 03/04/2003 5:27:27 PM PST by jra
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
The mall acted stupidly, but within their property rights

Yes.....but what about the store that sold it to him? Shouldn't they roust the store owner for displaying the shirt?

6 posted on 03/04/2003 5:28:16 PM PST by EggsAckley (nuke the vegan tree-hugging gay whale ACTORS for jesus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ALASKA
I thought it was from the onion but I new I hit Abc news.
7 posted on 03/04/2003 5:28:55 PM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
This is bizarre. I go to Crossgates Mall often. Believe me, there is no dress code of any kind and I've seen all sorts of "message" shirts. There's more to this that we haven't heard.
8 posted on 03/04/2003 5:29:01 PM PST by Gordian Blade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Domestic Church
I'm with you. This story doesn't pass the smell test.
9 posted on 03/04/2003 5:29:36 PM PST by EggsAckley (nuke the vegan tree-hugging gay whale ACTORS for jesus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
Even though this guy is a lawyer and a peacenik idiot.... this is CRAZY!
10 posted on 03/04/2003 5:30:00 PM PST by StolarStorm
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
Private property rights....sorry dude! A mall is all private property....and if it is the Mall's policy to support our troops, then I say good for them! If I lived there, I would shop for everything in that mall!
11 posted on 03/04/2003 5:30:18 PM PST by tuckrdout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
This feels like a story with some facts missing. I'll wait before forming any opinions.
12 posted on 03/04/2003 5:30:45 PM PST by colorado tanker (beware the Ides of March)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
Any business owner should have the right to decide who is on his property.

No, you're wrong. Certain places of "public accomodation" may not refuse entry by people on spurious grounds.

By your standards, you can refuse service to a black man based on his skin color.

They were wrong to do this no matter how much we might disagree with the "peace T-shirt" (or with lawyers, for that matter).

How many times have we read complaints here on FR, about bookstore clerks refusing to display or sell books by prominent conservatives such as Ann Coulter? Let's not be hypocrites.

13 posted on 03/04/2003 5:31:26 PM PST by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ALASKA
Could be.
14 posted on 03/04/2003 5:31:44 PM PST by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
This case may not be as simple as it might seem at first glance.

If the law finds the mall to be private property, then the owner was probably within its rights to ask him to leave (through the private security guards). His refusal to do so may have constituted a trespass and grounds for criminal charges.

However, if the mall is found to be public property, then this could be tanatmount to a violation of the lawyer's free speech rights.

15 posted on 03/04/2003 5:32:00 PM PST by PackerBoy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
We're missing a piece of critical information here. I'm betting the guy was also wearing no pants.
16 posted on 03/04/2003 5:32:02 PM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EggsAckley
Tomorrow I am going to try and call the guy and see if there was anything else on the shirt besides the words Give Peace a chance. I shop at that Mall a lot too! I don't know what to think about this one.
17 posted on 03/04/2003 5:32:42 PM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: StolarStorm
I'd be more inclined to bar him from that mall based on his being an ATTORNEY than his wearing the T-shirt.
18 posted on 03/04/2003 5:33:09 PM PST by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Gordian Blade
I'm replying to myself. Of course you have to be dressed at Crossgates, but nobody in charge there cares what your T-shirt says. I'm willing to bet that he got into some kind of heated argument with another patron and they were both asked to leave.
19 posted on 03/04/2003 5:33:46 PM PST by Gordian Blade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: tuckrdout
Gotta love those people in upstate New York! They are patriots right down the line.

Hope the jerk/peacenik gets a nice fat fine for not complying with the request of the mll security.

Ever notice those signs at Malls--"No soliciting. Private property"?

Guess the lawyer/jerk never noticed them either.
20 posted on 03/04/2003 5:35:05 PM PST by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: tuckrdout
So you SUPPORT any bookstore that would refuse to sell Ann Coulter's book, right?
21 posted on 03/04/2003 5:35:36 PM PST by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
This doesn't pass the smell test.

"...charged with trespassing "in that he knowingly enter(ed) or remain(ed) unlawfully upon premises,".

This charge is far stronger than just wearing a t-shirt.

Something is going on here.

22 posted on 03/04/2003 5:35:51 PM PST by HighWheeler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Restorer
The mall acted stupidly, but within their property rights. Any business owner should have the right to decide who is on his property.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. "...the right to decide who is on his property...." "Well, ma'am. I don't like to serve colored people in my restaurant. I should have the right to decide who is on my property, so get out."

A mall is a place of public accomodation. If all the guy was doing was wearing an article of clothing that he purchased in the mall, they won't, and should not, get away with trying to make him leave because he was wearing that shirt.
23 posted on 03/04/2003 5:36:24 PM PST by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
"I'm betting the guy was also wearing no pants. "

ROFLOL! That would warrant tossing his butt out to freeze but they might let him have the option of buying some snow pants.
24 posted on 03/04/2003 5:36:45 PM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Palladin
He bought the T-shirt at a mall store. Care to modify your diatribe?
25 posted on 03/04/2003 5:36:55 PM PST by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
There has got to be more to this story. I don't believe this article.
26 posted on 03/04/2003 5:37:04 PM PST by Calpernia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Calpernia
Downs is the director of the Albany Office of the state Commission on Judicial Conduct, which investigates complaints of misconduct against judges and can admonish, censure or remove judges found to have engaged in misconduct.

From the story.......
27 posted on 03/04/2003 5:38:39 PM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
Yes, DO CALL them. What do you wanna bet it had something like "F*** Bush" on it as well.


Please let us know what you find out.
28 posted on 03/04/2003 5:39:36 PM PST by EggsAckley (nuke the vegan tree-hugging gay whale ACTORS for jesus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Illbay
"I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs.

When Downs refused the security officers' orders, police from the town of Guilderland were called and he was arrested and taken away in handcuffs, charged with trespassing "in that he knowingly enter(ed) or remain(ed) unlawfully upon premises," the complaint read.

From the story........
29 posted on 03/04/2003 5:39:46 PM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
Sounds like an out-of-work lawyer looking for a score.

If his story is accurate, it's an outrage, but I don't believe it for a minute.

30 posted on 03/04/2003 5:41:47 PM PST by dead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Illbay
You may want to read an interesting court decision on "free speech" done at a mall:

http://www.westbuslaw.com/cases/protesting_fur.html
31 posted on 03/04/2003 5:43:54 PM PST by HighWheeler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Calpernia
There has got to be more to this story. I don't believe this article.

Me either. There's something we don't know. Some reason other than the tee-shirt as to why this guy was asked to leave. Bet a dozen Krispy Kreme donuts on that. The hot ones, just cooked, with the sugar glaze still soft.

MM

32 posted on 03/04/2003 5:44:02 PM PST by MississippiMan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: StolarStorm
Even though this guy is a lawyer and a peacenik idiot.... this is CRAZY

So then the next time someone is trespassing on YOUR property after telling them to leave, i assume the police should do nothing?

I once kicked a kid out of my apartment for wearing a Che Guevara T shirt, i suppose he was just practicing his free speech rights and he should be allowed to stay on my property without my permission then huh?

33 posted on 03/04/2003 5:44:12 PM PST by chudogg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: aruanan
A mall is a place of public accomodation. If all the guy was doing was wearing an article of clothing that he purchased in the mall, they won't, and should not, get away with trying to make him leave because he was wearing that shirt.

No kidding. Too many people on this thread are confusing what they think the law should be, i.e., the mall has a property right to exclude who it likes, with what the law is. And the law is that that guy can wear that shirt in that mall.

What the mall did is the last thing patriotic people should do. One stupid incident like this and liberals all over the country will start believing their adolescent fantasies about being persecuted for their "beliefs" are coming true.

34 posted on 03/04/2003 5:45:41 PM PST by Timm
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
Keeping in mind that his WAS an attorney, and that he IS apparently a lefty, I'll reserve judgement on this story.

I agree with those here who insist there must be more to it than meets the eye.

35 posted on 03/04/2003 5:45:43 PM PST by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
I missed that part. So I smell a rat. He is setting someone up, you think?
36 posted on 03/04/2003 5:45:54 PM PST by Calpernia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Illbay
How could I support it, if I don't buy anything in the store? I support their right to do what they want. But, they wouldn't get my business. This lawyer can just go to another mall if he doesn't like their policy.

I support a mall who wishes to support our troops!
37 posted on 03/04/2003 5:45:56 PM PST by tuckrdout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: PackerBoy
The right of free speech, and it's derivatives (free wearing of t-shirts, etc) in places of public accomodation (malls, theaters, etc) is well settled law in most states. Simply put, a business that allows members of the public in can't discriminate against the public on the grounds of political orientation.

Here in California, in fact, a private business that allows the public in can be REQUIRED to allow political activists to hand out flyers, make political arguments, etc on thier property. This isn't as bad as it sounds: the people can be kept outside in the parking lot, placed so that they don't interfere with business, required to operate in an unobtrusive manner, etc. A private business is NOT required to to allow activists, or anyone else, to interfere with thier business in any way, but only to allow people to make thier views heard.

38 posted on 03/04/2003 5:46:18 PM PST by Jubal Harshaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
I call BS. Something doesn't sound right about this. Especially since it was a lawyer
39 posted on 03/04/2003 5:46:43 PM PST by AppyPappy (Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MississippiMan
A little more info here:
http://www.boston.com/dailynews/063/region/Man_charged_with_trespassing_a:.shtml
40 posted on 03/04/2003 5:46:47 PM PST by smalltown
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: HighWheeler
Protesting is one thing. The simple act of wearing a T-shirt is another. I think in this case the court might rule that since the store was allowed to sell the shirt, it is patently ridiculous to tell teh man he cannot then wear it.

I would love to know the real story here, though.

41 posted on 03/04/2003 5:48:11 PM PST by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
We're missing a piece of critical information here. I'm betting the guy was also wearing no pants.

Or had dope on him....

42 posted on 03/04/2003 5:48:27 PM PST by cardinal4 (The Senate Armed Services Comm; the Chinese pipeline into US secrets)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Illbay
By your standards, you can refuse service to a black man based on his skin color.

I believe business owners should have this right. I also believe they would be very stupid to exercise it, and I would refuse to patronize such an establishment.

I also realize the laws have been passed and interpreted such that we no longer have this right. But, I believe those laws are not in compliance with the original intent of the Constitution.

43 posted on 03/04/2003 5:48:40 PM PST by Restorer (TANSTAAFL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: dead
Sounds like an out-of-work lawyer looking for a score.

See the fourth from last sentence/paragraf:

Downs is the director of the Albany Office of the state Commission of Judicial Misconduct, which investigates complaints of misconduct against judges and can admonish, censure or remove judges found to have engaged in misconduct.

44 posted on 03/04/2003 5:48:48 PM PST by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Illbay
No. Making a sale or purchase and soliciting a confrontation with security are two different things.

Also, he picked the wrong place to attack the President's war on terrorism (e.g. Iraq). This part of NY State is heavily inhabited by hundreds of NYC policemen and firemen, many of whom lost relatives and co-workers on 9/11.

Wearing such a tee-shirt was an open act of provocation which could have resulted in a riot if this stupid lawyer and his stupid liberal tactics drew the ire of 9/11 survivors.
45 posted on 03/04/2003 5:49:31 PM PST by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
"I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs.

Maybe or perhaps he had an altercation with someone who took offense to the message on the shirt and was previously told to leave the mall (for being a jerk) and then was arrested for being disorderly??

I have seen the scenario before where the liberals act like jerks but don't count their behavior prior to the arrest behavior??

I don't know in this case.

46 posted on 03/04/2003 5:49:36 PM PST by BeAllYouCanBe (Be All the government allows you to be!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ALASKA
Sounds like left-wing dis-information or BUNK to me.

Me too. In fact, it SCREAMS dis-information.

47 posted on 03/04/2003 5:50:12 PM PST by Auntie Mame (Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.--Mark Twain)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Illbay
By your standards, you can refuse service to a black man based on his skin color...
So you SUPPORT any bookstore that would refuse to sell Ann Coulter's book, right?

Actually, I support the rights of any business to refuse to accomodate anybody for any reason.

I wouldn't eat at a restaurant that refused to serve black people, or shop at a bookstore that refused to sell Ann Coulter's book, but I believe that business behavior should be modified by the market, not the government.

This is America. We have the right to associate with anybody we please. If you want to be an asshole, and cater only to other assholes, it's your right.

I realize that my views are in the minority, and are not currently legal, but that happens a lot to me.

48 posted on 03/04/2003 5:50:36 PM PST by dead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Illbay
So you SUPPORT any bookstore that would refuse to sell Ann Coulter's book, right?

100%.

49 posted on 03/04/2003 5:52:24 PM PST by Senator Pardek
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
Did you miss part of the story on your cut and past?

If this is the whole story then what is the point of even posting it? Obviously it is not complete with details.

I was thrown out of the mall for wearing tennis shoes.

Oh, the outrage!

50 posted on 03/04/2003 5:53:17 PM PST by PFKEY
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 401-411 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson