Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Libertarians Aim To `Breathe Free Air'
The Tampa Tribune ^ | February 23, 2003 | MAREGO ATHANS

Posted on 03/05/2003 5:26:10 AM PST by Katya

Edited on 03/05/2003 11:14:36 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

Plans are under way for an invasion of New Hampshire. Or Wyoming. Or maybe Delaware, Montana or Alaska. Sparsely populated and independent in spirit, they're all attractive targets for a bloodless coup in the making. Within the next several years, according to plan, 20,000 Libertarians would move to a single state and begin infiltrating. They'd find jobs, join civic groups, get elected and take a hatchet to taxes and laws.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: freestateproject; fsp; ideology; libertarians; liberty; porcupines; theconstitution
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-61 next last
Searched and didn't see this posted....Good article summarizing the objectives of the Free State Project.
1 posted on 03/05/2003 5:26:10 AM PST by Katya
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Katya
Libertarians are worse than the French.
2 posted on 03/05/2003 5:27:09 AM PST by Drango (Two wrongs don't make a right...but three lefts do!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Katya
Fat chance. The feds will hunt them down like dogs and butcher them politically. You can't have people with that much freedom. They need Welfare to be happy.
3 posted on 03/05/2003 5:28:54 AM PST by AppyPappy (Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Drango
Two words: Unfunded mandates. End of discussion. Nice try, give them the home version of the game.
4 posted on 03/05/2003 5:30:31 AM PST by AppyPappy (Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Katya
Interesting idea that won't work, IMO, at least here in NH.

Do you remember the "Minvera" project of the 70's....an unclaimed atoll in the Pacific that would be a libertarian society?
6 posted on 03/05/2003 5:32:37 AM PST by RJCogburn (Yes, it is bold talk.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Katya; dighton; aculeus; general_re; L,TOWM; Poohbah; hellinahandcart
Sounds good to me. 20,000 Libertarians means that there would be approximately 35,000 different sub-parties, quorums, grass-root organizations, and committees within the Party. The various political permutations between and among that many Libertarians could be considered an almost infinite number, leading to generalized chaos and anarchy .. the most endearing traits of the Libertarian Party.

20,000 Libertarians all in one place sounds like an invasion of head-lice.

This side-show brought to you by the One-Percent Party, the Libertarians.

7 posted on 03/05/2003 5:32:52 AM PST by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsenspåånkængruppen ØberKømmååndø (EMØØK))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BlueLancer
20,000 Libertarians all in one place sounds like an invasion of head-lice.

Yeah, but just think of how many bongs you could sell to 'em....

8 posted on 03/05/2003 5:34:24 AM PST by Drango (Two wrongs don't make a right...but three lefts do!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Katya
Why not Maine? if ever a state needs an awakening, its' Maine.
9 posted on 03/05/2003 5:36:15 AM PST by camle (no camle jokes, please...OK, maybe one little one)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AllSmiles
I think New Hampshire is a perennial favorite at this point....I have signed on, and have experienced quite a catharsis in my initial preferences. After having listened to quite a few westerners from Wyoming, Idaho and Montana describing their states, and ordering their state travel guides...I could definitely envision moving west.

But New Hampshire is still to me, the most viable option.
Freedom in our Lifetime: Freestateproject.org

10 posted on 03/05/2003 5:47:53 AM PST by Katya
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: BlueLancer
This side-show brought to you by the One-Percent Party, the Libertarians.

LOSER-TARIANS

11 posted on 03/05/2003 5:49:42 AM PST by apackof2 (You shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you Free.. John 8:32)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: AppyPappy
This fantasy assumes the liberals and socialists won't mobilize along with them, or haven't beaten them to it.
12 posted on 03/05/2003 5:50:55 AM PST by biblewonk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: BlueLancer
The difference I see(at least in discussions) is that most of these Libertarians are quite willing to make some pragmatic choices to win...like fielding libertarian leaning republicans. Hello....they're willing to do more than shout at each other....they're willing to move!!! Sucess would entail working at the micro level in townships etc. within a state that already leans in our direction.
13 posted on 03/05/2003 5:52:14 AM PST by Katya
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: RJCogburn
I dunno. An island, a space colony....they have some intriguing possibilities (of course, if Mary Margaret couldn't convince a thousand Libertarians to move to Fort Collins, how in heck could 20,000 Libertarians agree on moving to one place?):

Libertarians tried to stage a migration once before. In the late 1980s, Mary Margaret Glennie tried to bring 1,000 Libertarians to Fort Collins, Colo., where she lived. When that failed, she proposed a Libertarian space colony.

14 posted on 03/05/2003 5:52:23 AM PST by Catspaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: BlueLancer
Hey dude, hand me the pipe and say that again about the take over. OOOOHHH WWWOW dude I can't make it then I've got a mensa meeting and I'm doing a prostitute then man.
15 posted on 03/05/2003 5:53:43 AM PST by biblewonk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Katya
After having listened to quite a few westerners from Wyoming, Idaho and Montana describing their states, and ordering their state travel guides...I could definitely envision moving west.

Yeah, Montana! Libertarians there are real normal...



Big Blue
Montana Senate Candidate
Has Light Hue
The Associated Press

Oct. 3 — When it comes to Senate candidates, Stan Jones is a stand-out — he's blue. The 63-year-old Montana Libertarian has turned blue from drinking a silver solution that he made himself by electrically charging a couple of silver wires in a glass of water.

Jones says he thought it would protect him from disease.

Jones says he started taking colloidal silver in 1999 because he feared Y2K disruptions might lead to a shortage of antibiotics. The business consultant and part-time college instructor says his skin began turning blue-gray about a year ago.

"People ask me if it's permanent and if I'm dead," he said. "I tell them I'm practicing for Halloween."

He does not take the supplement any longer, but the skin condition, called argyria, is permanent. The condition is generally not serious.

Colloidal silver dietary supplements are marketed widely as an anti-bacterial agent or immune-system booster, but some consider it quackery.

Jones is one of three candidates seeking to unseat Democratic Sen. Max Baucus in November. The others are Republican state Sen. Mike Taylor and Green Party candidate Bob Kelleher.

16 posted on 03/05/2003 5:53:49 AM PST by Drango (Two wrongs don't make a right...but three lefts do!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Drango
At least Libertarians believe in more freedom and less government than the oppressive Republicans.
17 posted on 03/05/2003 5:54:14 AM PST by xrp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Drango
The Smurf Candidate!
18 posted on 03/05/2003 5:55:28 AM PST by Catspaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk
LOL!
19 posted on 03/05/2003 5:59:12 AM PST by apackof2 (You shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you Free.. John 8:32)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Drango
Libertarians aren't all bad, but they have the wrong idea. The ideal strategy would be to go to the most LIBERAL states or cities where they could worm their way into hallowed leftist institutions. Can you imagine 20,000 Lib-ts invading Ithaca for example.

Just imagine the scenario. One local hippy (mayor, professor, clergyman) is sucking on a bong next to a stranger who he thinks is a leftist fellow-traveler. The stranger takes a hit and then starts going on about privatizing medicine and other government entities. The hippy starts to argue, but then the stranger calls the hippy that word that is the most damning word in the Libertarian language: (drum roll) a STATIST!!!! The hippy recoils in shock and puzzlement that a fellow druggie does not believe in complete governmental control of every aspect of American life. Why those hippies would never recover from those encounters and probably discombobulate them to such an extent as to render them unable to roll their own joints or listen to NPR ever again. They might even run down to the used commie book store to see if there's an old copy of Atlas Shrugged lying somewhere in a dusty corner behind the mountain of Zinn and Chomsky books. I know...I'm dreaming, but we can all dream can't we?

20 posted on 03/05/2003 6:05:41 AM PST by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Katya; dighton; L,TOWM; hellinahandcart; Poohbah; general_re
"...these Libertarians are quite willing to make some pragmatic choices to win...like fielding libertarian leaning republicans."

If that's the case, then I don't think that you will be able to find 20,000. Most of the members of the Libertarian Party (and, thus, I do differentiate them from lower-case "l" libertarians), as reflected by most Libertarian advocates on FreeRepublic, are all-or-nothing kind of people. If you don't agree with them on every little aspect of their agenda .. and that means down to the dotting of the "i's" and the crossing of the "t's" .. then you're a statist, a jack-booted thug, or a Republicrat/Demopublican.

There is no give to be gotten; half-measures are like no measures at all. To a Libertarian of this ilk, a Bush administration is the same as a Gore administration. Two steps forward and one step back is viewed as a retreat.

Theoretically, it sounds good. But, then, theoretically, so does communism. It's just that it is unworkable in the world of imperfect humans.

21 posted on 03/05/2003 6:11:06 AM PST by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsenspåånkængruppen ØberKømmååndø (EMØØK))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Katya
Variations on this idea have been floated for decades. I don't think it could work.

First off, getting the majority of a state's population to agree on anything, including the name of the state, is a lot harder than you'd think. Second, there's this little matter of the federal government. Third, the governments of surrounding states would feel quite threatened by such a development as well, and would surely do what they could to frustrate it.

Take differences in taxation between two neighboring states as an example. When the differences are large, they cause the more heavily taxed state to lose business and population to the less heavily taxed one, over time. That's one of the original features of federalism -- but in this day and age, it gives rise to vicious fights over cross-border commerce and employment in which everyone loses. Take New York and New Jersey as an example. Washington would surely use its influence if the contest became ugly enough -- and Washington would probably side, de facto if not de jure, with the more heavily-taxed state.

Ultimately, the persons involved in such a project would have to be willing to close themselves off from the surrounding Union. Washington hasn't looked favorably on that idea, either.

The most reliable route toward improvements in freedom is the steady pursuit of citizen education -- the penetration of the idea that freedom works best into the minds of the electorate. We seek the solid longevity of the oak tree, not the evanescence of the mushroom.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason:
http://palaceofreason.com

22 posted on 03/05/2003 6:20:26 AM PST by fporretto (Curmudgeon Emeritus, Palace of Reason)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BlueLancer
I happen to be a pragmatic voting Libertarian...you may "hear" more from the all or nothing crowd, but they don't reflect the populace at large. They tend to be the "official" arm of the Libertarian party, and most who think and act the way I do politically, are voting members of the mainstream parties.
I'm not an idiot...I'll vote for Bush over Gore any day...but I also see a need for local and state issues to retain more of our constitutional rights.
What I see happening is not initially a Libertarian revolution, but a revolution within the governing party(probably republican) within a state, forcing it to work along Libertarian lines. Will I move to the state that is eventually chosen...of course. Regardless of how you read our success....it can only improve the tilt within the state.
23 posted on 03/05/2003 6:20:57 AM PST by Katya
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Katya
To paraphrase Rollye James, New Hampshire's motto of "Live Free or Die" should be made a requirement.
24 posted on 03/05/2003 6:23:26 AM PST by Physicist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Physicist
Agreed, it's a profoundly meaningful motto which spoke to me long ago.
25 posted on 03/05/2003 6:38:20 AM PST by Katya
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: AllSmiles
Too much snow. Idaho would be better.
26 posted on 03/05/2003 6:54:15 AM PST by cruiserman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Katya
Katya: Thanks for the post. I've watched this movement for a while... and though I've not signed up, I probably will. I'm not a Libertarian, just a person interested in freedom.
27 posted on 03/05/2003 6:57:24 AM PST by Red Boots
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Katya
Thanks for the post.

The idea that people who believe in libertarian principles are actually going to start trying to make a change, instead of just being an irrelevant political party, scares the crap out of the anti-freedom party line types. This is shown by the typical responses everytime an article about a "Free State Project" is posted.

28 posted on 03/05/2003 7:04:06 AM PST by FreeTally
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Katya
New Hampshire, Vermont or Delaware would be do-able.

I couldn't see myself in Wyoming or Alaska
29 posted on 03/05/2003 7:07:06 AM PST by WhiteGuy (Cynical)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Katya

That is because you are searching in the wrong place. These sorts of smelly ideologue fringe nutcase discussions are found in the Smoking Lemmings' Backroom where they belong, not in News/Activism.

30 posted on 03/05/2003 7:08:55 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Katya; Admin Moderator
Duplicate:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/849912/posts

Edited (Other) on 02/23/2003 7:57 AM PST by Admin Moderator
Reason: Baltimore Sun properties must be excerpted.

31 posted on 03/05/2003 7:11:26 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Katya


32 posted on 03/05/2003 7:15:40 AM PST by kidd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BlueLancer
This side-show brought to you by the One-Percent Party, the Libertarians.

If they move from the other 49 states to one state, they become the 50 Percent Party - and win.

33 posted on 03/05/2003 7:26:31 AM PST by coloradan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: coloradan
If they move from the other 49 states to one state, they become the 50 Percent Party - and win.
When that failed, she proposed a Libertarian space colony.
34 posted on 03/05/2003 7:38:24 AM PST by Drango (Two wrongs don't make a right...but three lefts do!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Cultural Jihad
Argggh and apologies....geez, I was sent this and somehow missed the Baltimore Sun origination when I first went to the article. Though I do disagree that this is not news or politics...and it's certainly activism.
Where is that Admin moderator?
35 posted on 03/05/2003 7:54:17 AM PST by Katya
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: FreeTally
It's all pretty amusing...You've got to have thick skin. Hey, I vote for republicans generally, and they certainly have members in their party I'd rather not be seen with.
36 posted on 03/05/2003 7:57:28 AM PST by Katya
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Drango
And Statists are worse than Libertarians.
37 posted on 03/05/2003 8:06:26 AM PST by CyberSpartacus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk
Dear honorable biblewonk,

You wrote the following about libertarians:

"Hey dude, hand me the pipe and say that again about the take over. OOOOHHH WWWOW dude I can't make it then I've got a mensa meeting and I'm doing a prostitute then man."

Now since "bible" is in your moniker how would like people to jump all over you as being a fanatically, fascistic Taliban type of person every time you post? How about remembering the "do unto others..." admonition and that little bit about not bearing false witness which a smear of an entire group of people is.

Nothing personal mind you but your name indicates that you should know better where some of the other detracting posters here, the usual suspects on libertarian threads, are hopeless.

cordially,

38 posted on 03/05/2003 8:14:18 AM PST by u-89
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Katya
Hey, I vote for republicans generally

OK, I voted Libertarian in the last congressional election. Still it's funny how many Libertarians come to FR seeking validation; instead they just get the "smurf" kicked out of 'em.

39 posted on 03/05/2003 8:15:12 AM PST by Drango (Two wrongs don't make a right...but three lefts do!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: CyberSpartacus
And Statists are worse than Libertarians.

It enrages them that someone may get out from under their authoritarian control.

40 posted on 03/05/2003 8:16:46 AM PST by FreeTally
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Drango
Wow.

LOL
41 posted on 03/05/2003 8:26:44 AM PST by FourtySeven
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Katya
I think this is a great idea. Can't move there until 2011, though. I'll support any party that wants more freedom. (Can you imagine homeschooling in such a state?!)
42 posted on 03/05/2003 8:44:32 AM PST by Marie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: u-89
Now since "bible" is in your moniker how would like people to jump all over you as being a fanatically, fascistic Taliban type of person every time you post? How about remembering the "do unto others..." admonition and that little bit about not bearing false witness which a smear of an entire group of people is.

Nothing personal mind you but your name indicates that you should know better where some of the other detracting posters here, the usual suspects on libertarian threads, are hopeless.

cordially,

Dear honorable u-89:

Having bible in my SN causes just that in this real world of differing opinion and if I weren't able to deal with it I'd certainly have to leave. You mention a couple of bible verses which I always find interesting coming from people I assume not to be Christian. I only make that assumption because Christians are in the minority so it's merely a probablity assumption weighed by your defense of libertarians whose opinions I also find to be particularly non-Christian.

Therefore it is a hard for me to enter into a serious bible conversation. I must compliment you for not using both of the standard "heathen verses" which are: do unto others... and let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Every heathen on earth, including Metalica, seems to know these verses and is very guick to pull them on Christians when we dare express any opinion that they don't happen to like. I've studied to bible too long to react as if I've really been admonished.

My comment comes from a study of libertarian doctrine which shows me that they are very often pro legalization of drugs and prostitution and gambling and other "liberties" that they feel the government has no moral right to control. It is the bible that causes me to disagree with this libertarian point of view.

equally cordially, BW

43 posted on 03/05/2003 9:30:00 AM PST by biblewonk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Drango
Still it's funny how many Libertarians come to FR seeking validation; instead they just get the "smurf" kicked out of 'em.

No, a group of well known statist trolls ambush threads, start flamewars and attempt to get the threads move off the main page.

And then there were the ideological purges here, that led to most of the best leaving.

Might wanna check on the alleged goal of the site, btw... you'd find the trolls don't agree with the goal in their deeds and words (easily verifiable... pick a troll and do search, and find out if their positions agree with the Founder's intent of the Constitution or Ted Kennedys) , while we do.

44 posted on 03/05/2003 10:05:49 AM PST by DAnconia55
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk
It is the bible that causes me to disagree with this libertarian point of view.

Ah good. Then please point out where in the Bible it says that it is the governments job to prevent these things.(drugs and prostitution and gambling )

Might want to check to see that you aren't reading the Koran.

Got to love your type. You think you can legislate people into Heaven.

45 posted on 03/05/2003 10:08:18 AM PST by DAnconia55
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: DAnconia55
Didn't Jesus hang out with a hooker? Or would refering to Mary Magdalene as a "sex worker" be more appropriate?
46 posted on 03/05/2003 10:17:55 AM PST by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: DAnconia55
Ah good. Then please point out where in the Bible it says that it is the governments job to prevent these things.(drugs and prostitution and gambling )

Might want to check to see that you aren't reading the Koran.

Got to love your type. You think you can legislate people into Heaven.

I've spent quite a bit of time trying to show non-believers what the bible says. I also definitely don't think anyone can legislate or buy or coerce anyone into heaven.

47 posted on 03/05/2003 10:21:13 AM PST by biblewonk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk
Good reply, my friend, and I also think it was a wise decision to hold onto the pearls. ;-)
48 posted on 03/05/2003 10:30:01 AM PST by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Cultural Jihad
These sorts of smelly ideologue fringe nutcase discussions....

You're always so complimentary, and cogent.

Do you keep a towel near your computer to wipe the spittle from the keyboard? Do your neighbors mind the screaming?

49 posted on 03/05/2003 11:02:35 AM PST by jimt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Katya
``The Libertarian movement has existed for decades and produced leading intellectuals and Nobel Prize winners, but despite all that, it hasn't had much influence on a national level,'' Free State Project founder Jason Sorens says.

About all they have produced is a lot of hot air.

Its kind of funny, really - they'll break into umpteen factions, each of them looking at the others with paranoia and jealousy, all screaming "STATIST!" at each other.

50 posted on 03/05/2003 11:04:59 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (those who unilaterally beat their swords into plowshares wind up plowing for those who don't)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-61 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson