Skip to comments.They're coming out of the woodwork: Russert, Buchanan and Moran
Posted on 03/13/2003 5:01:11 AM PST by SJackson
Every few days I become re-amazed, saddened and fearful at the solid and valuable institutions that are being damaged and perhaps destroyed by the march to war that started on September 11, 2001. As a supporter of the president, and a grim but determined endorser of war against Saddam Hussein's Iraq, I recognize that mine is one of the many hands holding up the chisel against those institutions. But I wonder whether we will be able to build new structures half as serviceable and enduring as those we may be in the process of destroying.
Of course, I have in mind the United Nations, NATO and our amicable relations with much of Europe, particularly France and Germany. Flawed as those organizations and traditions may be, if they have served their time and must be discarded, we will have to replace them with something, or risk returning to a lonely, every-country-for-itself law of the jungle. The United Nations may be a farce, but it nonetheless embodies the hope of the ages of a brotherhood of nations sharing a common, peaceful vision.
Once, European Christendom offered that vision. Then the League of Nations, and after its failure the U.N. assumed the role. If the U.N has come to the end of its utility, so be it. But there must be another iteration of the grand old dream.
People rightly cling to a hope of something better than dog eat dog. And if the so-called realists can see only the U.N.'s material flaws and not the dreams that built the edifice, they are no realists at all, but mere fools. The stubborn resistance of most Europeans, and less but still numerous Americans, to support war without a U.N. endorsement is testament to the strength of that vision -- even when its focus is on the derelict tenement of the United Nations.
And there is one other tradition being overturned: the inadmissibility in polite company of questioning the patriotism of Jews. This last tradition, born as the world saw the unspeakable business of the gas chambers and ovens of Auschwitz and Dachau, has for a half a century kept at bay the ancient, always-lurking wolf of anti-Semitism. The taboo, the absolute ban, against questioning Jewish loyalty doubtlessly sheltered a few individuals who fit the definition. After all, most people hold some special feelings for their mother country.
(My family, which emigrated from England, when applying for American citizenship in the 1950s hesitated before affirming that we were prepared to bear arms against England if America and England were at war with each other.)
And for a few of each ethnicity those special feelings may cross over to dual loyalty. I'm sure it is true for a few Anglo-Americans, Irish-Americans, Polish-Americans, Jewish-Americans and fill-in-the-blank Americans.
However, because of the terrible history and ubiquity of anti-Semitism, the Western world spontaneously established the taboo against talking about such things after the Nazi-inflicted holocaust shocked humanity to its core. But now, as the specter of a war of civilizations hovers over the impending war against Iraq (even as we pray ... and have reason to expect -- that the Iraqi war will not precipitate such a cataclysm), the taboo is being violated: first, on the edges of polite society; then whispered in more respectable domains; and finally, on Feb. 23, on "Meet the Press," stated out loud by its host and NBC Vice President and Washington Bureau Chief Tim Russert. He asked Richard Perle, a leading advocate of the president's policy: "Can you assure American viewers ... that we're in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?"
If such a respectable citadel of the establishment as Russert's "Meet the Press" can air such a question, we could expect worse, and soon. And we got it this week.
First congressman Jim Moran suggested a successful Jewish plot to manipulate public opinion for the war, and then, my old friend Pat Buchanan published a withering, 5,000-word analysis of the evolution of thought of Richard Perle and other supporters of the president's Iraq policy, the peroration of which was the tasteless question and answer: "Who would benefit from a war of civilizations between the West and Islam? Answer: one nation, one leader, one party. Israel, Sharon, Likud."
As a student of history Pat couldn't help but be applying to Israel the old Nazi slogan: Ein Volke, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer (one people, one government, one leader.) Nothing good can come of this. Does mankind need yet another lesson of where this path leads? The idea that President Bush, Colin Powell, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld are risking so many American lives if they didn't honestly believe it was for American security interests (or because they have all been mentally manipulated by a few Jewish staffers) is not only beneath contempt, but is ludicrous on its face.
I wish my old friend Pat, even now, would refocus his powerful mental energies at the argument and not at the religion or patriotism of some of the arguers. While I disagree with his argument about the consequences of the war, events may yet prove him right. But no event can make right the manner by which he makes his argument. Tim Russert should never have asked that question.
I will, reluctantly, help hold up the chisel against a dysfunctional United Nations. But when it comes to questioning the motives of Jewish-Americans (or other Americans), count me out.
(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...
Moran was deliberately playing to conspiracy theorists while Russert was speaking from the vantage of cynical Realpolitik.
Rather than searching for anti-Semitism under every rock, people should focus on clearly anti-Semitic incidents like Moran's little Nuremberg speech and the "Divest From Israel" campaign on campus.
My father and a number of uncles spent four years of their lives during WW II fighting the Germans and Japanese. One lost his life. My family's "debt" is paid in full. And my family didn't own slaves so we won't be paying any reparations to blacks either.
[And/or: "go pat go," far -- and soon!]
How about the Federation of Planets? 8-)
Where does it stop?
MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe the president of the United States would risk the lives of American men and women for oil?
REP. KUCINICH: I think that to answer that question would be to put a focus on a person, and I think the policy is what we have to talk about, that this policy to go against Iraq was promulgated even before 9/11, and the day after 9/11, the secretary of Defense in a meeting of the National Security Council said we could use this moment to go after Iraq, even though there was no connection. I think that when a president commits the young men and women of this country to battle, that it should only be when there is an imminent threat to this country, and thatI believe most sincerely that one of the motivating factors involved in this effort to strike against Iraq is the desire on the part of some to be able to control the oil interests in Iraq. I believe that.
MR. RUSSERT: Mr. Perle, theres been discussion about the role of Israel and the formulation of American foreign policy regarding Iraq. Let me show you an article from The Washington Times, written by Arnold DeBorograf: The strategic objective is the antithesis of Middle Eastern stability. The destabilization of despotic regimes comes next. In the Arab bowling alley, one ball aimed at Saddam is designed to achieve a 10-strike that would discombobulate authoritarian and/or despotic regimes in Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Emirates and sheikhdoms. The ultimate phase would see Israel surrounded by democratic regimes that would provide 5 million Israelissoon to be surrounded by 300 million Arabswith peace and security for at least a generation. ...The roots of the overall strategy can be traced to a paper published in 1996 by the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, an Israeli think tank. the document was titled A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Security the Realm. ...Israel, according to the 1996 paper, would shape its strategic environment, beginning with the removal of Saddam Hussein... ...Prominent American opinion-makers who are now senior members of the Bush administration participated in the discussions and the drafting that led to this 1996 blueprint.
Can you assure American viewers across our country that were in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?
MR. PERLE: Well, first of all, the answer is absolutely yes. Those of us who believe that we should take this action if Saddam doesnt disarmand I doubt that hes going tobelieve its in the best interests of the United States. I dont see what would be wrong with surrounding Israel with democracies; indeed, if the whole world were democratic, wed live in a much safer international security system because democracies do not wage aggressive wars.
But please allow me to say: I find the accusation that this administration has embarked upon this policy for oil to be an outrageous, scurrilous charge for which, when you asked for the evidence, you will note there was none. There was simply the suggestion that, because there is oil in the ground and some administration officials have had connections with the oil industry in the past, therefore, it is the policy of the United States to take control of Iraqi oil. It is a lie, Congressman. It is an out and out lie. And Im sorry to see you give credence to it.
The only debt, if there is one is for those who knew what was going on and delayed freeing those camps. I don't believe America was delaying for any reason other than logistical. This business of blaming someone for the rise of Islam is the real concern. Islam is on the rise because it does from time to time. They hate us because we stand for something different than them. They are not tollerant, period. It has nothing to do with them hating Israel, which they do, because Israel is only drawing their fire because it is closer. We are next. Stop questioning the loyalty of our friends, watch the UN vote to see who our friends are, and get on with it. It will be a different world, but fanatical Islam will quiet down once they are crushed.
I'd guess support for his views on immigration and isolation makes it easy for some to avert their eyes from the rest of the package.
It appears that many of Pat's anti immigration for anyone hawks are willing actors for his words. Whenever, GW tries to expand his base and to appeal to others, we hear the words, "He is abandoning his core!" I think many of us have cracked the code about what "core" really means.
That scares me a lot more than Sunday morning smarm.
why he thinks the Oslo accord sucks
How about only one side whats to live in peace?
You're getting dangerously close to the moral equivalency argument, and you really don't want to go there!
America blood will shed for this nonsense there...period.
And just what nonsense would that be?
You may owe them a debt, if you were a European of that generation. I am not and I don't.
I categorically reject the idea that "we" owe any debt to groups for what our ancestors may or may not have done to them.
Amerinds, blacks, Jews, Albigensians, Celts.
I have never done anything to them or had any obligation to stop anyone else from doing anything to them.
This wussie liberal implicit guilt just makes it harder to focus on the real issues.
At the moment the US and Israel have a common interest and a common enemy.
That enemy is radical Islam.
By that logic, all of us, Jews and gentiles, Americans, Brits, Israelis, Arabs, Chinese, et al, are repsonisble for genocide in Rawanda. How many of us intervened?
In fact, back in the 1980s, the Left argued that if you allow people to die of starvation in a famine, then you murdered them.
By this article's logic (refusing to stop another's act equals doing the act) everyone on the planet is guilty of murder. Including the article's author.
you sound like a true disciple of your Fuhrer.
So do a lot of people responding on this thread.
Not one of them is conservative.
And Buchanan isn't really rightist. He has a lot more in common with leftist anti-capitalists than conservatives.
I cant see where you got that from the article.
taxed2death: Jews fail to realize that sometimes what's good for America may not be good for Israel. So be it.
Pat and Rep. Moran would agree with you. Can you offer anything to support that statement?
Sorry, but I've been paying dues to the Libertarian Party for 15 years, and I've long advocated libertarian principles on FR, foreign non-intervension, open immigration, legalized drugs, and all.
Yes, that includes the LP's non-discriminatory immigration policy. So unlike a lot of FReepers, I have no problem with "little dark people."
Now, instead of tossing slurs like a leftist, do you care the address what you find illogical about my post? If one is responsible for murder by not intervening in a genocide or famine, then is not the entire world guilty of murder? Did not the entire world stay out of Rawanda? Does not the entire world "owe a debt" to Rwanda?
Foreign non-intervension does not equal committing the act.
I cant see where you got that from the article.
You're right. I was addressing Peach's statement, and erroneously attributed Peach's statement to the article.
I'm sure that Russert would ask the same question to GWB or Cheney, as to whether the war is for oil and self enrichment. If not, then you might be right. ;>)
A more legitimate use of that line of questioning would be to ask Rep. Moran if his self admitted despicable remarks were in part motivated by contributions from Muslim charities that have funneled money to terrorist groups.
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