Posted on 03/27/2003 8:26:19 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
This can be further broken down as
temporal perfection vs. eternal perfection
or simply
unbelief vs. faith
Liberals and the left are enflamed by faith in God or any deity...this is the "rift" between the Left and Islam and the Left may use Islam for a season to further its agenda but eventually that shaky alliance will end.
After all these muslims believe in a heaven or afterlife which is unacceptable to the godless Left.
a tenuous relationship at best
"What about Voodoo or Santeria?"
Perfectly fine, as long as there are no sacrifices involved. Both are alive and well in South Florida.
Containment of the radical element isnt peace but its something we need to move towards. If it werent for oil we could let them go back to living in the Middle-Ages...without $$$capital$$$ it wouldnt take long for them to regress.
Maybe someday in the far future when interstellar space-travel is realized all non-muslim can relocate and let them have this used-up planet for their very own. :)
Gasshog youre crazy!
There I flamed myself, first.
It does sound kooky but its the only alternative at the moment. Islam isnt going away and you cannot eradicate it. Steps should be taken to show the radicals that if they want to behave like animals they will soon be sleeping and eating with them, if we have to impoverish their countries so be it.
If you're lumping me (and some others I see here) in with that group, then for the sake of accuracy your description should read:
I think I've offered the following in some form before here at FR, and I got everything from vile flames to thanks in return. I'm a tough old bird, so the responses aren't what I seek. Here goes, again. [HINT: if the reader doesn't like 'religious things' or Bible related things, then stop here and move on.]
A very significant event in the Eden Garden needs to be understood, to understand why Islam is both successful and insidious. In Christian tradition, the whole 'fruit from the Tree Of Knowledge of Good and Evil' episode has come to mean women and men are at opposition where family is concerned, and man sinned willingly whereas the woman was duped. The reality is much deeper, and failure to recognize what is so deep is to miss that which is at the heart of the human condition throughout all of history. [What is to follow isn't new, early Church teachers dealt with it, but it is not vogue today.]
If we look at the way the serpent posed his argument, his persuasion, we discover the demonic brilliance of his accomplishment (in causing the first human family to fall from their state of grace), but we will also see the seeds of his ultimate final defeat.
GE 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, `You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
GE 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, `You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
GE 3:4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
While obedient, the first human couple was in a state of grace, not in need of salvation from anything, but that doesn't mean they were at their full potential else they would not have fallen from Grace. The serpent's task was to foment disobedience by some means. He appealed to the intrinsic yet untried nature of human beings, their pride in capability (not a sin in that expression), their pride in self ('Love your neighbor as you love yourself'). He pricked her (and thus, later, Adam's also) pride by calling God a liar, inferring that her Creator had not been truthful with her, had withheld from them some great state of existence that they could achieve through their own actions, not by gift from their Creator. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God ..."
What the serpent invited Eve to do had many layers of possibility in it: she could follow through and disobey, but Adam not disobey, thus driving a fatal wedge between the creatures God created to live in harmony; she could disobey and eat of the fruit, then stand in superior position (in her mind) to the man, thus destroying the inherent harmony God had created between man and woman; she could obey under threat of death, never again trusting God due to tension the unresolved issues foment; she could ... well, you get the picture. What she did was disobey, then enlist the man to follow along also. But what was the great temptation that brought it all to fruition?... 'You shall be as God', without God's gift of such an exalted position, the very position Satan aspires to!
Two scripture passages to be found in different locations of the New Testament lend insight: "Many are called, but few are chosen"; "Faithful is He that calleth you, for He will also do it". If so many are called/invited to become the children of God, why are so few chosen/born into Christ's family?... Because so few will let Him do it! So few will let Him save them as they seek to save themselves, seek to place God in debt to them.
Christianity is all about accepting a gift, to allow God to sanctify us. Islam is all about doing it yourself, making your self righteous enough to please God and receive the 'paradisical rewards.' It was never intend thus, for that would render Christ's blood, Christ's Cross, of no import in the final reality of the universe.
If a religion or sect or cult promotes bootstrap salvation, it is a blasphemy toward Christ and Him crucified for us, for our salvation. In reading the Koran and Mohammed's receiving of the directions for righteousness, we see immediately the same subtle lie and temptation offered to the first human family.
If Jihad means anything to a Moslem, it means obedience results in God owing the Moslem a debt of Paradise. If Paradise can be reached by works of obedience, then the Cross is of no regard. That's blasphemy toward the Lord of Heaven, the Christ of our Salvation. Add the instruction to force all to obey allah and there is no doubt that the one who would force obeisance is not the Author of the gift of Salvation in Christ Jesus.
[One last aside: it is interesting that Islam and Judaism come from the children of Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac; one through a son of rebellion, as one born by natural means, from a woman not included in the original promise to Abram and Sarai, the other through a son who fulfilled God's promise, a son dedicated to God by his father, a son who finally submitted his will, voluntarily, to be God's man through whom He would in the fullness of time bring His Son. That contrast is to be found beginning in the Eden Garden, and the origin of our fall from Grace but the ultimate seed of Satan's defeat. For it is by Grace you are saved, not by works lest any man should boast. If ANY descendant of Adam could boast his own salvation, the Cross would be nullified. Even Jesus said 'Thy will be done' and 'Into Thy hands I commend my spirit.' Never will you find Jesus even implying that God is compelled to save even him. No where is it written that salvation through Christ is to be forced.]
The thought that the true enemy is Western Judaeo-Christian culture is what advances bin Laden's goal.
Our response is incidental. We can engage him now, as he fooolishly wishes, or later, when the likes of bin Laden are stronger.
Never mind that. Consider this...
Moses Q. Moses
Jesus Q. Jesus
Mohammed Q. MohammedWhich one of the three would you least trust with your teenage daughter?
The problem with Islam is that it produces loathsome behavior. I have no problem with what people think or say amonst themselves, as long as they don't bother me about it.
As a violent ideology, Islamism could be handled the same way the Klan was handled: investigate all violent acts, jail everybody even encouraging such acts as "co-conspirators". Currently no corporation would retain somebody as an employee who was found to be a Klansman -- have it be the same deal with Islamists. Withdraw all anti-discrimination protections and outraged American society will do the rest.
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