American Woman is a Hero: "She Was Fighting to Death"

NewsPundit.net ^ | 4/3/2003 | Douglas Oliver

[Eagle Eye]

A group of people are busy trashing Jessica on another thread

What an immflammatory and FALSE statment, and I DARE you to back it up.

What you have on another thread is people debating what is 'heroic' vs what is expected or admirable as well as some debating whether or not women now belong in combat units.

In the entire thread, I do not recall anyone saying anything less than respectful towards PFC Lynch.

One of the biggest problems on FR is the inability of some people to disagree without trashing others and making false statements. Disgreeing about 'hero' status isn't the same as "trashing".

[Eagle Eye]

I see that we've independently agreed on two different threads.

Hell must have frozen last night.

[DoughtyOne]

Kevin, I don't know the names. We may never know. I doubt any of them desire to have their names known. That's just the way it goes. Participation and the successful rescue was more than enough for them. Very cool.

[GBTexan]

Dear God In Heaven--!

Sometimes folks should really sit back and listen to how foolish they sound. Is PFC Jessica Lynch a hero? Yes, she damn sure is. Are the Army Rangers & Navy SEALS who went in to get her heroes? Yes, they damn sure are. They're all heroes. Every damn man and woman over there fighting to make us safe.

Should she be there? Should she not be there? It's irrelevant at this point. What is relevant is that she was there, serving her country, prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice while a lot of us who haven't even served in the armed forces are sitting here typing, sitting in comfy chairs. She and everyone else is over there bleeding for us, yet Freepers are going to start fighting about whether or not she should even be there. Well the fact is she held her own pretty damn well when the crap hit the fan. This isn't about being a man or a woman. It's about being a soldier, which is what she did.

So really--lay the Hell off of her already. And whoever says she's not a hero, like I saw in the other thread, needs to walk up to her family and her friends and tell them that. Look her father and mother square in the eyes and tell them that she's not a hero for serving her country. Tell that to her older brother, who's serving in the National Guard right now. See what he has to say about his sister being a hero.

She's a U.S. soldier. They're all heroes. Now get over yourselves.

[patriciaruth]

I do not recall anyone saying anything less than respectful towards PFC Lynch.

Ah, you don't recall the one calling her a "little girl" who was "whimpering and crying?"

[Eagle Eye]

Ah, you don't recall the one calling her a "little girl" who was "whimpering and crying?"

No, I don't. So what? Neither are "trashing". I don't doubt that most POW's whimper and cry at various points in their captivity.

And this is your proof that there are many people trashing her?

Get a grip. There are those of use who have a higher standard of heroism than you do. Many Purple Heart recipients don't really like being called heros for getting hurt. They view they wounds as a failure to properly protect themselves or follow procedures.

One person said that everyone in uniform in that area was a hero. Does that include the person back at base camp? Then what about the people who aren't in uniform that are serving in those same areas? Where do we draw the line?

[Eagle Eye]

You seem determined to make heroism a commodity if everyone who serves in uniform is a hero.

And a black beret automatically confers elitenss and professionalism, too, right?

[GBTexan]

One person said that everyone in uniform in that area was a hero. Does that include the person back at base camp?

Yes, it most assuredly does.

Then what about the people who aren't in uniform that are serving in those same areas? Where do we draw the line?

Why in the Hell do we even have to draw a line when it comes to the folks over there doing their jobs to fight America's foe? Do we draw a line with firemen and cops and paramedics? If we do, I'm not aware of one. To me (note that term as I'm not trying to speak for everyone here) these people are doing more for our country then I've ever damn well done, and to me they're heroes, one and all.

[GBTexan]

You seem determined to make heroism a commodity if everyone who serves in uniform is a hero.

Your word, not mine. But yeah, I do tend to see folks in uniforms as heroes, even if they're "just doing a job." Is a fireman any less of a hero for trying to save lives because he's "just doing his job?"

And a black beret automatically confers elitenss and professionalism, too, right?

Again, your words--not mine.

[Eagle Eye]

If the guy in uniform in basecamp is a hero, what about the civilian working in base camp to free up slots for the soldiers?

[PLMerite]

"Instead she gets to be one of the ballsiest women in military history. Not a bad choice on her part."

I wonder if she knew what was going to happen would she still have enlisted?

Don't (not you specificially) confuse my opinion that women don't belong anywhere near combat with disrespect.

I'm glad she's coming home. I hope she can have the quiet normal life she deserves.

[patriciaruth]

So you don't remember the posts that PFC Lynch was a liar or at least not worthy of being believed in her recount of her experiences?

[GBTexan]

If the guy in uniform in basecamp is a hero, what about the civilian working in base camp to free up slots for the soldiers?

In my mind, to me, yeah, they'd count too. Because it's more than I myself am doing for my country right now, and Hell, Iraq's firing missiles at the camp in Kuwait.

[Eagle Eye]

In my mind, to me, yeah, they'd count too. Because it's more than I myself am doing for my country right now, and Hell, Iraq's firing missiles at the camp in Kuwait.

Using the 'more than I'm doing' criteria also becomes pretty subjective. At some point that would make nearly everyone a hero! Hmmm...sign up, deploy, enjoy instant hero status....

I'm in a base camp overseas (Zulu +3). There is nothing heroic about it, nor is there anything heroic about being a target. There was nothing heroic about having terrorist car bombs in my housing area in Germany in the 80's. One need not receive a Bronze or Silver Star or a Medal of Honor to be a hero, but, IMO, your standards for heroics is way too low.

[Eagle Eye]

I looked at about 600 posts and I don't remember your TWO examples. If they are there and they are only half of the negative comments, then there would be 4 out of 600. Hardly a significant number.

[Non-Sequitur]

Bet she will get a big hug and a kiss from President Bush, too.

Will the president be kissing and hugging the guys, too? :)

The actions of this soldier just goes to prove what I've been saying all along, based on over 20 years commissioned service in the Navy and the Navy Reserve. The overwhelming majority of the women officers and enlisted that I had the pleasure of serving with were motivated, dedicated, driven, highly competent individuals who were capable of holding their own when their job performance was measured against their male counterparts. I truly believe that this woman behaved in a manner which reflects nothing but credit to the Army, and that most of her female peers would have acted no differently under similar circumstances.

[judicial meanz]

Quote:

You seem determined to make heroism a commodity if everyone who serves in uniform is a hero

Response:

You are a soldier, and I have been for many years, not all reserve component. Looking at that statement objectively, I can tell you they are. Maybe you just see it enough you are used to it.

How many people sat on their butts and talked this war to death without even bothering to serve in the military, or even thinking about it?

How many jerks protested or even worse, asked these soldiers to die or kill their officers?

How many smug jerks think it is beneath human dignity to be a soldier, or even worse "abhor it"? ( and not all are Democrats either)

How many people remember soldiers, sailors, airmen, or marines who are forever 19 years old and died serving their country, instead of remembering a series of college drunk sessions?

A hero can come in many different sizes and shapes. Not all are recognized. Just because this woman was not on the "tip of the spear" as I once was, doesnt make her a soldier in the same legacy of millions of others, and she fouoght well. I know guys who have broke and pissed their pants.


Quote:

And a black beret automatically confers elitenss and professionalism, too, right?


Answer:

Unless the soldier wearing the black beret is someone who souldnt be in the Military, damn straight.

Compared to some armies of the world, damn straight. We are the best, and there is no reason not to say it loudly!


PSS: you described a terrorist attack you encountered once. My experience with them was quite different. One was in Beirut and one was in Oklahoma City. A lot of years seperated them, but two things were consistent about both.

Cowards attacked people who werent ready for them to take their lives.

The US military is ready for them, and they are killing more every day. I hope they send them all to hell. I never want to have to see that crap again.

[Mr. Thorne]

I'm STILL against it. Because of the situations it brings up (a la, rape), and because of the lessening of requirements to pacify the feminists. But whether I'm for or agin' it, the policy is there.

And it's not like she's in the Rangers or something that would require physical 'grade inflation.'

All that being said, consider: here's a maintenance gal. She's not a frontline combat person, but she did the deed. Picked up her rifle and went down fighting.

Good for her. Well done! She deserves at least two medals that I can think of, and all the accolades we can shower upon her. She DIDN'T GIVE UP. She went down fighting.

And I hope there's some penalty for being shot by a woman in 'the religion of peace.' Maybe the virgins are male, or something.

[Eagle Eye]

You are a soldier, and I have been for many years, not all reserve component.

Not anymore, haven't been for a long time. I'm a civilian and can leave here anytime I want to. I don't have to be here, it was my choice.

Trust me, if anyone here claimed to be a hero for simply being here, he'd be a laughing stock.

But if we take your point of view, many of us have been heros all or most of our adult lives without knowing it.

I don't buy it.

What, then, do we do with those that actually go above and beyond the call of duty, WILLINGLY imperil themselves to save or attempt to save others? Are they Superheroes? Mega Heros?

Heroism involves doing something that you don't have to do and that nobody will think less of you if you don't attempt it.

Diving on a grenade. Making one more entry into the fire to find the kid. Being the last one out when you could be the first. Rallying victory from almost certain defeat.

Mere serivice, however honorable and admirable, isn't heroic. It's one's duty.