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Negotiators approve flag compromise (GA State Flag)
Atlanta Journal Constitution ^ | 04/04/03 | Jim Galloway

Posted on 04/04/2003 11:09:24 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa

Negotiators approve flag compromise

By JIM GALLOWAY

Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer

Proposed new Georgia state flag.

Georgia's state flag would be changed immediately, with a public vote to follow, under a plan endorsed by a key House committee today.

The new flag would resemble the first national flag of the Confederacy -- three red and white bars, with a blue field in the top left corner. The state seal would be in the blue corner, and the words "In God We Trust" would be written to the right.

The bill adopted by the House Rules Committee calls for the Legislature to change the flag to the new design immediately. Then, in March 2004, a public referendum would be held to let voters decide whether they want to keep that flag.

Only if the new flag is rejected by voters would a second referendum be held, this time in July 2004, asking voters if they want to return to the Georgia flag dominated by the Confederate battle emblem, or the flag that flew before 1956. The current flag would not be on the ballot.

The Rules Committee proposal now heads to the full House for a vote next week, although the bill may be amended there and still requires Senate approval.

Gov. Sonny Perdue, who had proposed a statewide referendum on changing Georgia's flag, is endorsing the proposal.

"We believe this represents a compromise," said Rep. Glenn Richardson (R-Dallas), the governor's floor leader who sponsored Perdue's flag bill. "This will bring this to a conclusion."

The Legislature, led by former Democratic Gov. Roy Barnes, voted in 2001 to shrink the Confederate battle emblem on the state flag, which was added in 1956 as Georgia schools were being ordered to desegregate.


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KEYWORDS: georgiastateflag
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This is a bad flag also.
1 posted on 04/04/2003 11:09:25 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: WhiskeyPapa
No no no. Looks too much like Confederate flag, it's got God on it, that's a no go in itself. Maybe just a plain ol' white flag.
2 posted on 04/04/2003 11:11:16 AM PST by ladtx ("...the very obsession of your public service must be Duty, Honor, Country." D. MacArthur)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
I'd expect to see litigation from the ACLU over the word God in a state flag.
3 posted on 04/04/2003 11:14:40 AM PST by curmudgeonII
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To: WhiskeyPapa

Georgia introduced this new state flag on January 31, 2001 following
objections to the previous design's emphasis on the Confederate Battle
Flag.

It never ends folks.

PC KILLS Historical accuracy


4 posted on 04/04/2003 11:27:27 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: WhiskeyPapa
This is a compromise, as someone states? ROTFL This is what is commonly called a surrender.
5 posted on 04/04/2003 11:28:44 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: ladtx
Why white? You're racist!
6 posted on 04/04/2003 11:28:46 AM PST by itzmygun
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To: itzmygun
See from your homepage you're from WV. My Mama live SW of Charleston and my brother lives in Parkersburg.
7 posted on 04/04/2003 11:33:58 AM PST by ladtx ("...the very obsession of your public service must be Duty, Honor, Country." D. MacArthur)
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To: DoughtyOne
This is a compromise, as someone states? ROTFL This is what is commonly called a surrender.

Replacing the current flag with a copy of the rebel flag is about as bad as they can get; of course most people are completely ignorant of the "first national."

Walt

8 posted on 04/04/2003 11:38:13 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa (Be copy now to men of grosser blood and teach them how to war!)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Now why would any body think the new flag reminds them of the old Stars and bars? Actually, since most of the people complaining are probably victims of the public education system, they won't know what the Stars and Bars looked like:

Confederate Stars and Bars
The First Official Flag of the Confederacy.

Although less well known than the "Confederate Battle Flags", the Stars and Bars was used as the official flag of the Confederacy from March 1861 to May of 1863.

9 posted on 04/04/2003 11:39:54 AM PST by Michael.SF. ('Lack of concensus is no excuse for lack of leadership' - M. Thatcher)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Sounds like I'm ignorant of it as well. Give us a brief background. Thanks.
10 posted on 04/04/2003 11:40:53 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
Sounds like I'm ignorant of it as well. Give us a brief background. Thanks.

The first flag of the so-called CSA looked just like this proposed flag except where the state seal is now were seven stars in a circle. It was adopted before the last 4 states approved secession documents.

Walt

11 posted on 04/04/2003 11:45:47 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa (Be copy now to men of grosser blood and teach them how to war!)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
It's not a bad flag but I would prefer our old State flag the way it was before this nonsense started with King Roy. However I would accept the majority decision of the people of the state of Georgia if & when we the people get to vote on the issue.
12 posted on 04/04/2003 11:48:51 AM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: HELLRAISER II
Do you mean the old state flag, or the 1956-2001 state flag?
13 posted on 04/04/2003 11:51:46 AM PST by lugsoul
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To: ladtx
One color you won't see a good ol'boy from Georgia flying is a White flag.
14 posted on 04/04/2003 11:52:07 AM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: WhiskeyPapa
So what you're saying is that this flag should be as much or more offensive than the one they are trying to abolish? Interesting. Thank you.
15 posted on 04/04/2003 11:52:53 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: HELLRAISER II
Don't want to step on any toes here. But, from one southern boy to another, if you're gonna change from the flag you have, which is a perfectly good flag, then it might as well be a white flag.
16 posted on 04/04/2003 11:54:27 AM PST by ladtx ("...the very obsession of your public service must be Duty, Honor, Country." D. MacArthur)
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To: curmudgeonII; ladtx
One thing that ya'll are right on is the God issue, it amazes me that a Country made from such Religious convictions have fallen into such God hating people. What in the hell happened?
17 posted on 04/04/2003 11:56:47 AM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: DoughtyOne
So what you're saying is that this flag should be as much or more offensive than the one they are trying to abolish? Interesting. Thank you.

Yes; this flag is just a little bit less "in your face", but it is, or should be, just as offensive.

It will be a disgrace for Georgia if they pass it.

Walt

18 posted on 04/04/2003 12:00:22 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa (Be copy now to men of grosser blood and teach them how to war!)
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To: ladtx
You bring up a valid point and one that I'll try to explain my point of view. First off I never surendered the way I felt about the flag, that was King Roy & his Kangaroo Court that pathetically gave into minority pressures. I will alway's love our prior flag and I want it back, but if we get to vote on it and we as a state vote against it. Well i'll live with it because we made our decision, not a bunch of politicians. But in my opinion, that's not waving a white flag that's America at it's best.
19 posted on 04/04/2003 12:01:29 PM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: WhiskeyPapa
The mention of God is a smart political move. It will flush out the ACLU types in Georgia, exposing the left as it really is.
20 posted on 04/04/2003 12:02:13 PM PST by flying Elvis
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To: lugsoul
The latter.
21 posted on 04/04/2003 12:02:15 PM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Why wouldn't they use the ACTUAL GA STATE flag used before that thing invented in 1956?

Using a deliberately Confederate "national" flag is stupid. It AIN'T the confederate flag, it's a STATE flag.

22 posted on 04/04/2003 12:03:20 PM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (ABBCNNBCBS (continue to) Lie!)
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To: ladtx
As a son of the South, I think maybe this is a good compromise. For the past 50 or so years, we have allowed every hate group from the KKK to the American Nazi party use the Southern Cross, with no complaints. Therefor the the battle flag is now associated more with the KKK than with The Confederate States of America. Besides, most of the people complaining about the "Stars & Bars" don't have a clue as to what the Stars and Bars really are.

Now be nice guys, this is my first post.
23 posted on 04/04/2003 12:04:34 PM PST by Bar-Face
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To: HELLRAISER II
More power to you Hellraiser II, hope you get what you want.
24 posted on 04/04/2003 12:04:40 PM PST by ladtx ("...the very obsession of your public service must be Duty, Honor, Country." D. MacArthur)
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To: Michael.SF.
Like I said earlier this flag is alright, but the Battle Flag is my pick and quite frankly if the people here in Georgia don't like it. Well then they can vote against it or leave, it's really that simple. Thanks Gov. Perdue.
25 posted on 04/04/2003 12:05:31 PM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: Bar-Face
You've got a good point. Too bad it has to come down to this though.
26 posted on 04/04/2003 12:06:25 PM PST by ladtx ("...the very obsession of your public service must be Duty, Honor, Country." D. MacArthur)
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To: HELLRAISER II
I appreciate the strength of your conviction. I have lived in Georgia my entire life and, frankly, couldn't care less what the flag looked like. I anly care about a single flag and that is the Stars and Stripes. I appreciate the fact that people are upset at politicians bowing down to the PC crowd but, in all honesty, the flag will not change the life of a single person (except those who actually make flags). I hope you get what you want because it is important to you but I simply don't care.
27 posted on 04/04/2003 12:11:27 PM PST by Wyatt's Torch
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To: Bar-Face
Well, well a newbie, just kidding. You're entitled to your opinion, even though I don't agree. I do however see how you could view things that way. It is true that some of these hate groups did use the Battle Flag as a racist symbol, but I never have nor has anyone I associate with. To me it's simply a State flag of where I live and i'm proud of being Southern and i'm specially proud of the state from which I live.
28 posted on 04/04/2003 12:12:09 PM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: Wyatt's Torch
It is true I hope we get our old State flag back, but make no mistake about where my loyalties lie. I have no problem Pledging my allegience to the Greatest Country on the Earth. The United States of America.
29 posted on 04/04/2003 12:15:01 PM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: WhiskeyPapa
he he he, that'll tweak the lefties worse than what they started with before this whole farce got started!

LOL
30 posted on 04/04/2003 12:18:01 PM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: Derville; shuckmaster; sola gracia; Dawntreader; greenthumb; JoeGar; Intimidator; ThJ1800; ...
*ping*
31 posted on 04/04/2003 12:18:11 PM PST by sheltonmac
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To: HELLRAISER II
Well, that ain't the old state flag.

The nonsense of changing the flag for political reasons didn't start with King Roy. It started in 1956. And if you don't think that the legislature should, or can, change the state flag because some folks don't like what they think it stands for, then perhaps you can explain why the legislature should, or can, change the state flag expressly because of what they think it stands for - and to thumb their nose at those who disagree.

The '56 flag ain't about heritage. If you want heritage, it would seem that the old flag is far more about heritage than one adopted in a spate of anti-segregation legislation.

32 posted on 04/04/2003 12:18:19 PM PST by lugsoul
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Why wouldn't they use the ACTUAL GA STATE flag used before that thing invented in 1956? Using a deliberately Confederate "national" flag is stupid. It AIN'T the confederate flag, it's a STATE flag.

The Georgia State Flag used prior to 1956 was also based on the Stars and Bars.

The Stars and Bars was the political symbol of the Confederacy. When you think about it dispassionately, replacing a political symbol for a military symbol should have made the post 1956 flag less politically charged.

However, with public education being what it is nowadays, most people wouldn't be able to recognize the Stars and Bars any more than graduating high school seniors can now point out where Vietnam is on a map.


Georgia State Flag (c. 1920-1956)

33 posted on 04/04/2003 12:22:03 PM PST by Polybius
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To: HELLRAISER II
The problem is, as one other poster has mentioned, is that the heritage crowd did not object (or not loud enough) when the KKK rallied under the CBF. Sorry, but you lost your claim to it.

Asthetically speaking, I like the 56-01 flag, but I will not support it in the referendum. Practically, I far prefer the pre-56 flag over all other options. This new proposal is fine, but they need to move 'In God We Trust' to the bottom of the blue field below the seal. It doesnt look right where it is.
34 posted on 04/04/2003 12:25:03 PM PST by Tatze (Give Pizza Chants!)
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To: lugsoul
Well since I wasn't alive prior to 56, the only one i'm interested in is the one I saw as a kid growing up. You're playing semantics with what I said, you obviously don't feel the way I do about the battle flag and that's cool but you will find that there are lot's of us who feel this way. Just for the record I grew up in a family who were not racist, when I got to the 6th & 7th grade I got bussed to a mostly black school where we whites we're abused because we were the minority. I know all about segregation & desegregation & racism and not once have I ever inflicted harm physically or mentally based on my politics or view on the Georgia state flag. To you it's nonsense, to me & 10's of thousands of other Georgians it's just the way it's going to be, just watch.
35 posted on 04/04/2003 12:34:34 PM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: Tatze
I can see your point and maybe they did fall down on the job, but remember that I wasn't born until 1964 and went to school in Florida, hell I didn't even know what a klan member was until I saw Porky's. I did however know what the Confederate flag was and never saw it as a racist symbol, maybe in a sense we are now taking back our heritage from those racists of old as well as the Minority racists of present.
36 posted on 04/04/2003 12:40:14 PM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: HELLRAISER II
Great logic. My daughter is 2. To your way of thinking, the ugly blue flag is "heritage" for her, since it is the only one she's seen flying over the capitol. Seems to me that "heritage", almost by definition, extends back to before you were born.

You may not have taken any action against anyone based on your view of the state flag. Think about how you would feel, however, if you were alive in 1956, and black. And the state changed the flag to the battle flag amidst a torrent of speeches and legislation about resistance to segregation. Do you think your heart would swell with pride over that flag?

Anyway, since you are so confident of the outcome, how about a side bet? If the battle flag were going to be the eventual winner, do ya think Sonny would be running away from it as fast as he can? Anyway - this much is certain - if you want that flag, you must not want Sonny for another term. Because there is no way he will win another with that flag flying over the state house.

37 posted on 04/04/2003 12:42:01 PM PST by lugsoul
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To: DoughtyOne
"This is a compromise, as someone states? ROTFL This is what is commonly called a surrender."



Not really. The people of Georgia will get to decide in a referendum---that's all anyone can ask for. If they don't like the new flag (which, personally, I think is pretty cool---it's got the old Stars and Bars and says In God We Trust), then they get to choose between the 1956-2001 flag (the one that prominently displays the Confederate Battle Flag) and some other old flag. So if Georgians want to bring back the 1956-2001 flag, they can do so by voting in two referenda.
38 posted on 04/04/2003 12:43:51 PM PST by AuH2ORepublican (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: lugsoul
If your daughter grows up looking at the current state flag whether it's the current, old or new state flag for her whole life. Then yes I believe she will grow to be proud of it and the state from which she lives regardless of her race unless she is taught to hate it.

You also state that I might feel different if I was alive in 56, perhaps you are right. I have read some of the things that happened to blacks of that time and it truly was terrible perhaps you were even alive then and it shaped the way you feel.

But I can't understand what it's like to be black, nor can blacks know what it's like to be white. But I can tell you however that I learned all about racism at S.P. Livingston & Butler schools in Jacksonville, Fl and it wasn't Whites doing the abusing it was blacks. How about blacks standing in line waiting to take their turn to beat the $hit out of some kid while another one held them simply because they were white. How about being chased around campus by blacks with straight razors simply because you were white. You see I know all about racism to and it didn't have anything to do with Florida or the State flag.
39 posted on 04/04/2003 12:57:44 PM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: AuH2ORepublican
That's really all we the people of Georgia wanted, to give us the chance to decide not the Legislature. Lugsol seems to thing Sonny won't be back, I disagree I think that Sonny has won over a lot of voters simply for giving them the chance to vote on the issue and like you said whatever we the people decide is something I can live with.
40 posted on 04/04/2003 1:00:40 PM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: Bar-Face
As a son of the South, I think maybe this is a good compromise.

Agreed. As long as the confederate battle flag is not represented, then no problems here.

41 posted on 04/04/2003 1:07:57 PM PST by mac_truck
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Do I also take it that you dislike the old battle flag as well? I'll have to state that don't see things that way. I believe this has been a mountain made of a mole hill.
42 posted on 04/04/2003 1:13:08 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
Walt doesn't like anything Southern, at least that is the way i've alway's taken his posts. Some have some validity, but there mostly just Confederate/Southern bashing in General.
43 posted on 04/04/2003 1:19:38 PM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: AuH2ORepublican
Thanks for the explanation. I didn't read the whole article above. If this is the plan, I'm actually for it. I thought the old Georgia flag was beautiful.

Look the old Georgia flag had been around for 45 years. Because some special interest groups made a bunch of noise, it was done away with. I don't see it as intrinsicly racist. I see it as a throwback to the old south, but realize that there was much about the south that wasn't realted to slavery that folks could reasonably desire to remember.

Obviously I don't approve of slavery. I don't approve of sending a message to remind folks of slavery. I don't see the old flag in those terms, and feel that some do just to make a point and prove that they are relevent, when they probably aren't.

44 posted on 04/04/2003 1:20:26 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: HELLRAISER II
I think there are actually valid viewpoints on both sides of this issue. I still come down on the side of allowing the old battle flag. I explained why one to a few posts before this one.

I just don't agree with those who see the old battle flag as a in your face insult to blacks.

Thanks for the comments.

45 posted on 04/04/2003 1:29:56 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
Opposing view points are what makes the world go around, but I would have to agree that I don't think the Confederate flag is an in your face insult either. I'm not so far right of the subject to not realize that some older blacks may view it this way, but hell the Klan's been a mediocre group at best for years. I know for a fact that the Klan is not and has not been active in the little town I live in S.E. Georgia for several decades.
46 posted on 04/04/2003 1:35:24 PM PST by HELLRAISER II
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To: DoughtyOne
Do I also take it that you dislike the old battle flag as well? I'll have to state that don't see things that way. I believe this has been a mountain made of a mole hill.

I never much cared one way or the other about the flag. It is easy to see the battle emblem as a symbol oof individuality and free spirits. But then you see these hateful heritage purveyors and their message is pretty plain. They hate equality and freedom. They hate the equality mandated by the federal government. So they spread their lies about the history of the war.

Walt

47 posted on 04/04/2003 1:38:09 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa (Be copy now to men of grosser blood and teach them how to war!)
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To: Polybius; HELLRAISER II
I actually like the propsed flag! I share both of your sentiments. My only concern is that even if the state flag is changed, those people with still complain about it. They won't be happy until the colors are black, green, red, and yellow.
48 posted on 04/04/2003 1:38:10 PM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: WhiskeyPapa; HELLRAISER II
Thanks for the additional comments.
49 posted on 04/04/2003 1:44:39 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: stainlessbanner
Unfortunately your statement ring's to true, no matter what happens some people are still going to whine. That's why I think that a state vote on the issue is so great, the Majority of voters win and the rest of them can hit the highway if they don't like it.
50 posted on 04/04/2003 1:45:58 PM PST by HELLRAISER II
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