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BILL, HILLARY, SAUL, AND MORAL RELATIVISM Saul Alinsky and the Lessons He Taught Bill and Hillary
FR ^ | 03/23/00 | The Wanderer

Posted on 04/06/2003 9:34:52 AM PDT by Liz

Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky Courtesy of The Wanderer. From a FR post dated 03/23/00.

Saul Alinsky wrote two books outlining his organizational principles and strategies: Reveille for Radicals (1946) and Rules for Radicals (1971).

Rules for Radicals opens with a quote about Lucifer, written by Saul Alinsky: “Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins -- or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom -- Lucifer.”

In Rules for Radicals, Alinsky says: “Here I propose to present an arrangement of certain facts and general concepts of change, a step toward a science of revolution.” He builds on the tactical principles of Machiavelli: “The Prince was written by Machiavelli for the Haves on how to hold power. Rules for Radicals is written for the Have-nots on how to take it away.”

Rules for Radicals is concerned with the acquisition of power: “my aim here is to suggest how to organize for power: how to get it and how to use it.” This is not to be done with assistance to the poor, nor even by organizing the poor to demand assistance: “...[E]ven if all the low-income parts of our population were organized ... it would not be powerful enough to get significant, basic, needed changes.”

Alinsky advises the organizer to target the middle class, rather than the poor: “Organization for action will now and in the decade ahead center upon America’s white middle class. That is where the power is.”

Alinsky is interested in the middle class solely for its usefulness: “Our rebels have contemptuously rejected the values and the way of life of the middle class. They have stigmatized it as materialistic, decadent, bourgeois, degenerate, imperialistic, war-mongering, brutalized and corrupt. They are right; but we must begin from where we are if we are to build power for change, and the power and the people are in the middle class majority.”

To accomplish this, Alinsky writes that the organizer must “begin to dissect and examine that way of life [the middle class lifestyle] ... He will know that ‘square’ is no longer to be dismissed as such -- instead his own approach must be ‘square’ enough to get the action started.”

Rules for Radicals defends belief that the end justifies the means: “to say that corrupt the ends,” writes Alinsky, “is to believe in the immaculate conception of ends and principles ... the practical revolutionary will understand ... [that] in action, one does not always enjoy the luxury of a decision that is consistent both with one’s individual conscience and the good of mankind.”

Altogether, Alinsky provides eleven rules of the ethics of means and ends. They are morally relativistic:

“The practical revolutionary will understand Goethe’s ‘conscience is the virtue of observers and not of agents of action’; in action, one does not always enjoy the luxury of a decision that is consistent both with one’s individual conscience and the good of mankind.”

“The second rule of the ethics of the means and ends is that the judgment of the ethics of means is dependent on the political position of those sitting in judgment.” Alinsky elaborates his meaning on this point, saying that if you were a member of the underground Resistance, “... then you adopted the means of assassination, terror, property destruction, the bombing of tunnels and trains, kidnapping, and the willingness to sacrifice innocent hostages to the end of defeating the Nazi’s. Those who opposed the Nazi’s conquerors regarded the Resistance as a secret army of selfless, patriotic idealists ....” Rules for Radicals is therefore concerned with how to win. “...[I]n such a conflict, neither protagonist is concerned with any value except victory.”

“The third rule of the ethics of means and ends is that in war the ends justifies almost any means.”

“There can be no such thing as a successful traitor, for if one succeeds, he becomes a founding father.”

Rules for Radicals teaches the organizer that he must give a moral appearance (as opposed to behaving morally): “All effective action requires the passport of morality.”

The tenth rule of the ethics of means and ends states “that you do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral arguments ... Moral rationalization is indispensable at all times of action whether to justify the selection or the use of ends or means.”

Rules for Radicals provides the organizer with a tactical style for community organization that assumes an adversarial relationship between groups of people in which one either dominates or is dominated.

“The first rule of power tactics is: power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.”

“Wherever possible go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.”

“Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this. They can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also, it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.”

“The threat is generally more terrifying than the thing itself.”

“In a fight almost anything goes. It almost reaches the point where you stop to apologize if a chance blow lands above the belt.”

“Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

One of the criteria for picking the target is the target’s vulnerability ... the other important point in the choosing of a target is that it must be a personification, not something general and abstract.”

“The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength.”

Saul Alinsky urged the active and deliberate “conscious-raising” (Ed note: a tactic used by feminists) of people through the technique of “popular education.” Popular education is a method by which an organizer leads people to a class-based interpretation of their grievances, and to accept the organizer’s systemic solutions to address those grievances. “Through the People’s Organization these groups [of citizens] discover that what they considered primarily their individual problem is also the problem of others, and furthermore the only hope for solving an issue of titanic proportions is by pooling all their efforts and strengths. That appreciation and conclusion is an educational process.”

Rules for Radicals stresses organizational power-collecting: “The ego of the organizer is stronger and more monumental than the ego of the leader. The organizer is in a true sense reaching for the highest level for which a man can reach -- to create, to be a ‘great creator’, to play God.” Alinsky considered Hillary a terrific “organizer” and wanted her to become his protege. She declined. She had bigger fish to fry. She learned her lessons well. She and Bill have employed Alinsky’s tactics probably better than anyone else.


TOPICS: Free Republic; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: alinsky; bookreview; findhillarysthesis; moralrelativism; rulesforradicals; saulalinsky; saveamerica; stophillary
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In Rules for Radicals, Alinsky says: “Here I propose to present an arrangement of certain facts and general concepts of change, a step toward a science of revolution.”

Slyfox posted 03/23/00: It would be quite safe to say that both Billy-boy and the Rodham have sucked from the teats of Lucifer......

Doctor Raoul posted 03/23/00: Rules for Radicals opens with a quote about Lucifer, written by Saul Alinsky: “Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins -- or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom -- Lucifer.”

1 posted on 04/06/2003 9:34:52 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Fintan
Alinski BUMP
2 posted on 04/06/2003 10:03:37 AM PDT by alisasny
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To: Liz
“Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this. They can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

This is one of the statements that really resonates with me regarding the democrats and of the Clintons in particular. And they conveniently shift their own rules to suit their agenda at the moment. In the end, we will prevail over their web of lies.

3 posted on 04/06/2003 10:08:46 AM PDT by Thebaddog (Fetch this)
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To: Liz
Bush's oft maligned "new tone" is a pretty good response to this goading and ridicule, a form of rope-a-dope, requiring a solid foundation in faith. Hitlery has met her match, more than her match, far more. Thank God.
4 posted on 04/06/2003 10:12:20 AM PDT by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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To: Liz
The tactics of the left are transparently consistent with this. This is particularly manifest in recent protests.

I sometimes wonder how many people, even in the activist right, understand how truly dangerous the Left is? As dangerous or more so than the Islamo-fascists.

But of course, there is growing nexus between the world left and world Islamo-fascists, whose cause is essentially the same--destruction of the West. Primary target: The US.

Fukiyama's notion that history is over is quite obviously incorrect.

5 posted on 04/06/2003 10:26:09 AM PDT by Interious
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To: Liz
Commies by any other name are still commies and that includes bent weinie willie and his les wife hitlery.
6 posted on 04/06/2003 10:46:51 AM PDT by hgro
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To: hgro
In spades.
7 posted on 04/06/2003 11:25:54 AM PDT by Liz
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To: PGalt; Grampa Dave; Libloather; Mudboy Slim; skinkinthegrass
ALINSKY: "One of the criteria for picking the target is the target’s vulnerability ... the other important point in the choosing of a target is that it must be a personification, not something general and abstract.” “The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength.”

Hitlery's VRWC crack woulda made Saul proud.

8 posted on 04/06/2003 11:30:02 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Slyfox; Doctor Raoul; Liz
Alinsky considered Hillary a terrific “organizer” and wanted her to become his protege. She declined.

Can you elaborate on this personal connection? (I know that Hillary was an Alinsky fan, but I didn't know that Alinsky was a Hillary fan.)

9 posted on 04/06/2003 12:53:34 PM PDT by the_doc
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To: the_doc
Hitlery did her senior thesis on Alinsky - a document which has been kept under wraps since she surfaced as a public figure.
10 posted on 04/06/2003 12:59:05 PM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
I knew about that thesis. I didn't know that Alinsky knew her.
11 posted on 04/06/2003 1:18:17 PM PDT by the_doc
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To: Liz
Thanks for this post. I have been trying to document Saul Alinsky's connection to Hillary. I thought that someone, (Rush?) did manage to get a copy of Hillary's thesis. Surely, we can find it. She is THE most dangerous Terrorist in this country.
12 posted on 04/06/2003 1:27:52 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: the_doc
I can't remember where I read it. I have read all of the bio's on Hillary and a couple of them detail Alinsky's opinion of her. Her senior thesis was about Saul Alinsky. She was his favorite and most capable protege. He didn't like lawyers, but she wanted to become a lawyer and was not planning to work for him. She wanted 'more maneuverabilty'.

Most people, when they get to a certain age, start looking for someone to carry on their legacy. Even though Hillary did not become the head of his organization, she fulfilled his deepest desires as to how the radical element should attempt to takeover the government. Her first chance began when she was chosen to work as a lawyer on the Nixon impeachment committee, where she tried to illegally devise a way that Nixon would be barred from being represented by counsel. Later, she became the 'power behind the throne', making decisions only the president should have been making.

I must say here, even though she has been taking her fingernails to the Constitution from the moment she got her law degree and, by the way, she continues to this day as senator, it just proves how strong what our Founding Fathers produced that even a she-devil at the gate of Hell could not destroy it.

13 posted on 04/06/2003 2:06:36 PM PDT by Slyfox
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To: Liz
"Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules."

Great tactic. Since the RATS abandoned rules a long time ago, nothing can stick. The down side for the RATS - they have no way to document success. I, for one, hope they keep it up!

The folks with rules usually put the folks without rules behind bars...

14 posted on 04/06/2003 3:11:19 PM PDT by Libloather
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To: Liz
Rules for Radicals teaches the organizer that he must give a moral appearance (as opposed to behaving morally): “All effective action requires the passport of morality.”

Back in chicago in my early twenties, 2349871234817264 years ago (alas), one of my first jobs was running Chi office for an importer of Brit sports cars (Lotus). This was a political job, in part, as I had to tweak local officials to get the cars through customs and also make sure they were handled gently.

My contact at Port of Chicago was a fellow not much older than I, a DemonRat underling on the way up in party and city politics. He took a shine to me and was always telling me about his affairs in great detail (though he was married). The object of his game was of course to bed me...but he never asked directly, as that would have appeared immoral. Instead, he described his prowess with others interminably hoping I'd take the bait. Naturally I did not, but enjoyed watching his machinations. I could not tell him to go to hades, as I needed him to get those cars through.

He also extolled the virtures of Saul Alinsky all the time...no doubt he'd learned his slimy immoral techniques from the master. I've been wary of Alinsky proselitizers ever since. They cannot be trusted with anything. Being in the same wroom with an Alinsky afficionado is like being in a room with a poisonous snake. You have to keep one eye on them every minute.

15 posted on 04/06/2003 3:50:18 PM PDT by PoisedWoman (Fed up with the liberal media)
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To: PoisedWoman
Being in the same room with an Alinsky afficionado is like being in a room with a poisonous snake. You have to keep one eye on them every minute. Paula Jones, Juanita and Kathleen Willey learned that the hard way. And thanks for the realtime story about the scumbag Dumbocrat.
16 posted on 04/06/2003 4:00:01 PM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
Liz, my earstwhile friend was definitely a Bill Clinton precourser. They're all alike, Alinsky's minions.
17 posted on 04/06/2003 4:02:49 PM PDT by PoisedWoman (Fed up with the liberal media)
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To: alisasny

Alinski BUMP

Many thanks!! I'm touched that you remember my Alinsky-Hillary associations from those wacky MSNBC chat days...

We should have a reunion.


18 posted on 04/06/2003 6:11:05 PM PDT by Fintan (Barnum was wrong...it's more like every fifteen seconds.)
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To: Liz
Rules for Radicals opens with a quote about Lucifer

Which is why every leftist is nothing but a mirror image of Satan in human form. They are the Lie made flesh. They are the spirit of the Antichrist, a cancer trying to eat away at creation. God created order out of chaos by imposing His will, and the Left (at the instigation of Satan) is simply trying to impose chaos upon that order. The entire philosophy of the Left runs counter to the very fabric of the universe. They are like a river which fights to flow upstream, rebelling against natural law. They will not succeed, but they will not stop trying to subvert truth and reality until they are finally destroyed by the God they hate so much.

19 posted on 04/06/2003 6:41:06 PM PDT by laz17 (Socialism is the religion of the atheist.)
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To: Liz
Rules for CRIMINALS are as doomed as the CRIMINALS that try to implement them. The arrogance of the CRIMINAL is no match for the individual that understands FREEDOM.
20 posted on 04/06/2003 8:55:31 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: Liz
Maybe the public should hear more about Hitlery and Bill and Saul. Maybe the public should read Hitlery's thesis.
21 posted on 04/07/2003 9:34:43 AM PDT by freekitty
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To: Liz
None of this is news. Barbara Olson's book, "Hell To Pay" which dissects Miss Hillary, used Alinsky's comments as chapter lead-ins.

We miss ya, BKO - E
22 posted on 04/07/2003 3:38:47 PM PDT by Endeavor
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To: Endeavor
We know it's not news but we need to remind people of Hitlery's treachery again and again.
23 posted on 04/07/2003 4:36:00 PM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
I meant that rhetorically, not critically, of your post.
24 posted on 04/07/2003 4:46:21 PM PDT by Endeavor
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To: Freedom'sWorthIt
I read Hillary's thesis on a FreeRepublic post during the Monica/Impeachment times. Anything in Whitewater archives?
25 posted on 04/08/2003 12:21:23 PM PDT by ntnychik
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To: ntnychik; backhoe
Hmmm - I will call on the master Chronicler of Hillary's crimes and see if we can dig it up. Backhoe - that would be you.
26 posted on 04/08/2003 1:27:22 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: Endeavor
Yes, thanks for the reminder - and yes, we do miss her. (not Hillary - Barbara).

I think Saddam/Stalin/Mao/Alinsky is/was/would be proud of how Hillary dealt with her nemesis, don't you?

27 posted on 04/08/2003 1:31:17 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: Liz
I still like my namesake's aphorism from 200 years ago...

"Fear, greed and vanity. These are the three great levers by which men are moved."

And the left has paid close attention, haven't they?

    * Fear -- Because of George Bush, this poor black man got dragged to his death in Texas.

    * Greed -- We must put a stop to George Bush's war on terrorism, so that money can be used for better purposes, such as "free" education, "free" income, "free" medical care and anything else you want for "free."

    * Vanity -- you're just as deserving of high grades, school admission, professional licensure and six-figure income as anybody else, just because you exist.


28 posted on 04/08/2003 1:59:43 PM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: Bonaparte
Yes, but here are some rules for God's radicals they may not understand:

1. God's strength is made perfect in our weakness as we rely on HIM, not on ourselves.

2. Humble ourselves before God and HE will lift us up.

3. Behold, God is at work creating a new heaven and a NEW EARTH in which there will be NO TRACE of Alinsky or any of his disciples who will all be in hell with their leader, the prince of darkness.

29 posted on 04/08/2003 2:33:06 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: Bonaparte
Oh - and also - it pleased God to take the weak things, the foolish things of this world to confound the "wisdom of the wise" (in their own eyes) bring His Salvation to His Beloveds through the "foolishness" of the Cross upon which the Prince of GLORY died!

"If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me". Another "radical" gave that "rule" and it is one that neither Hitlery, nor Alinsky, nor Stalin, nor Saddam, nor all the gates of hell shall prevail against!

30 posted on 04/08/2003 2:36:41 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: Liz
Bump for later.
31 posted on 04/08/2003 2:36:43 PM PDT by Springman
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To: ntnychik
I read Hillary's thesis on a FreeRepublic post..

GOOD NEWS, BAD NEWS, UNBELIEVABLE NEWS

compiled by James W. Harris

Hillary Clinton's Mystery Thesis

Recently syndicated columnist Jack Anderson was doing a story on Hillary Clinton, and in the process his staff requested a copy of her 1969 senior thesis from Wellesley College. It was a seemingly simple request, since normally college theses are public record, available to anyone.

Not, however, in this case. Anderson was told that the current Wellesley president had created a new rule in 1992. The new rule, Anderson says, is that "...the college would seal the senior theses of any Wellesley grads who were either the first lady or the president of the United States." (Perhaps not coincidentally, the president of Wellesley is a long-time friend of Mrs. Clinton's.)

Okay, Anderson asked, can you just tell us the *subject* of the paper? No. Well, was the new policy enacted at Clinton's request? Again, no answer.

Perplexed and intrigued, Anderson contacted Hillary's White House press corps. He was assured it was no big deal, and that he'd be sent a copy of the paper, along with an explanation of why it had been sealed. Several weeks passed, however, and no thesis appeared. Finally he was told that no copy would be coming -- and no explanation would be given.

Eventually Anderson and his staff discovered some answers on their own. Hillary's thesis, it turns out, was a critique of Lyndon Johnson's "War on Poverty" programs. Her conclusion: community-based government anti-poverty programs don't work.

Which may explain all the secrecy, since President Clinton recently called for federal funding for a number of... community-based government anti-poverty programs.

(Source: column by Jack Anderson and Jan Moller)

Source

32 posted on 04/08/2003 3:15:56 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: Bonaparte
Hell has three gates: lust, anger and greed," the Bhagavad Gita
33 posted on 04/08/2003 3:27:54 PM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
I have often looked for her Senior Thesis and have only read Class of 1969, on the occasion of Wellesley's 91st Commencement, May 31, 1969.

Where she followed Senator Brooke 'in attack mode'.

34 posted on 04/08/2003 3:37:29 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: the_doc
She's not the only disciple:

Daley, Jackson, and Sharpton appear to be following the revolutionary tactics advocated by yet another Chicago militant: the late Saul Alinsky.

Alinsky, a life-long Marxist, was a Chicago organizer who was dedicated to winning at all cost. He once wrote, "The most unethical of all means, is the non-use of any means." In simple terms, "Do whatever it takes to win." If that means lying, cheating, and stealing--so be it. Win at any cost.

Alinsky dedicated his book, Rules for Radicals, to Lucifer, who, notes Alinsky, "is the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom."

Saul Alinsky's strategies are clearly at work in Florida. One of his teachings is that "Truth is relative and changing." We are seeing this in the behavior of Gore operatives who change election rules after the fact and redefine "dimpled chads" as votes for Al Gore. Another Alinsky dictim teaches that "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." The vicious attack against Katherine Harris is a prime example of this tactic. One of Alinsky's more memorable comments is this: "To hell with charity. The only thing you get is what you're strong enough to get--so you had better organize."

The spirit of Saul Alinsky is alive and well in Florida's election battle. His spirit is also alive and well in the heart of Senator-elect Hillary Clinton. Alinsky was a friend and mentor to Hillary. In fact, she adored this Marxist so much that she wrote her senior college thesis on Alinsky's organizing tactics and strategies.
http://www.worthynews.com/commentary/chicago-politics.html
35 posted on 04/08/2003 3:48:55 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: fight_truth_decay
Apparently Hitlery got the school to keep her thesis under
wraps so that voters would not find out her true identity.
36 posted on 04/08/2003 4:02:00 PM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz; the_doc
Hardly had she raised her foot to step over the threshold of radicalism than she turned back. She declined to go with the SNCC, turned down an offer to work with Saul Alinsky as a community organizer in Chicago.

Anderson quotes her political science prof at Wellesley, Alan Schecter, as saying that by the late l960s his pupil had decided that the best radical strategy was to "'use the legal system' as an agent of change." She wasn't alone in that calculation. The long march of the left through the courtrooms was under way: the world would become a better place, courtesy of courtroom briefs, complaints and class action suits.

She declines the road that led to West 11th St and goes instead to Yale Law School. She works for John Doar, helping draft articles of impeachment against Nixon.

Overlawyered.com

37 posted on 04/08/2003 4:05:26 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: Liz
I just want to read it ,(thesis)because I can't ! ;)

That's why I jumped onto your story!

Good Post..!

F_T_D

38 posted on 04/08/2003 4:08:30 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: Liz; PhiKapMom; section9; JohnHuang2
Bill's triangulation (learned from Dick Morris, learned from Saul Alinsky) was simply dialectic, thesis, antithesis, synthesis.

Communists got quite good at three steps forward, two steps back.

Hitlery is such a bitch, she'll never be as successful as Bill.

Bill proved an effective Lucifer, assuming a pleasing shape to enough to get elected to power.

That of course is Alinsky's advice, assume that camouflage, don't eat that ham sandwich in front of the Jewish rally.

Hitlery, being strident, dogmatic, unbending, fails this test at all times.

Hitlery is an it, ultimately defined as an aggressive lesbian per the anecdote of Gennifer Flowers straight from the traitorrapist's mouth (Passion & Betrayal, Emery Dalton, 1995, page 41, and elsewhere).

Thus she's blown through Alinsky's stern counsel to assume enough of the "square to get in the game".

And Hitlery further marginalized itself in the health care fiasco, demanding 99%, rather than compromising with the 30% advised by Alinsky.

The so-called ethical relativism of Alinsky and Hitlery distils to any lie for power.

Bill was a world-class parser, able to keep himself on the technically true side of lying.

Hitlery is continually forced to refuse comment with disdain, feign horror a la Lazio's gambit, or simply limp along with a cane, be it "you know" or "I wasn't involved" or "I'm sadly disappointed" by her obese excrescent brother, e.g.

Oddly enough Sharpton would be her natural ally at this time.

Sharpton is the demagogue most adept at the game, for he announces the emperor is naked, the so-called leaders of the left, from Hitlery to the killer of Kopechne are given a pass from the probing questions he fields.

Hitlery has failed serially to muddy-up and degrade George W. Bush, yet continues with the same attempts to personalize the target.

Hitlery failed to instill the "homeland security is a myth" poison, and is so befuddled for the next attack Simon & Schuster despairs of its book.

Rush Limbuagh has said Hitlery is waiting for a point in the Iraq war to back-date its check.

Hitlery's success relies upon the ability of Democrats to block an effective tax cut plus the ability of Democrats and the Democrat press to degrade the accomplishments of the Iraq campaign.

Democrats plus the UN, France, Germany, Russia, China and the leftist media were not enough to prevent the Iraq campaign, and are not likely to be able to suppress the U.S. economy to their communal advantage.

The barnyard animals who would not help bake the bread will now demand to eat it, and when denied will misrepresent its qualities.

From Hitlery we shall have the "myth of Bush's victory in Iraq"--we expect no less kooky a canard from the adultery denier hallucinating a "vast right-wing conspiracy".

39 posted on 04/08/2003 4:53:50 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: Liz
Clintoons were moral degenerates and power hungry to the nth degree. Hope Hitlery never occupies the White House.
40 posted on 04/08/2003 5:01:31 PM PDT by lilylangtree
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To: Freedom'sWorthIt
re posts 29/30 - couldn't have said it better myself. Jesus is the trump card they can never beat.
41 posted on 04/08/2003 7:10:55 PM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: Liz
Looks like greed gets a lot of play across the faiths.

BTW, thanks for revisiting Dr Raoul's Alinsky quote in post 1. It's revealing to say the least. Alinsky admitted to fundamental confusion between what constitutes history and what constitutes mythology. And yet his belief in "historical necessity" was well-known. Too bad he's not alive to explain how he can believe in "historical necessity" when, by his own admission, he doesn't even know how to reliably distinguish history from myth.

Then he goes on to confuse the pain of defeat and imprisonment in hell with the winning of a kingdom.

42 posted on 04/08/2003 7:26:58 PM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: Liz
Threw my brother off of his computer to Freep. ( I can quit anytime I want...)

Have you ever noticed that the left refers to the "science" of revolution or communism? Or the "inevibility" of socialism? This doesnt just smack of the Clintons, but the left in general. How did this country ever survive them? God, I really hate them!

43 posted on 04/08/2003 7:32:57 PM PDT by cardinal4 (The Senate Armed Services Comm; the Chinese pipeline into US secrets)
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To: fight_truth_decay
Saul Alinsky's strategies are clearly at work in Florida.

No Sh*T! There is a chapter in Rules for Radicals that details how to steal an election.

It was an exact blueprint of what happened in Florida.

1 Question the validity of the vote - done by pre-arranged phone banks in St Louis calling democratic voters to ask if they had mistakenly voted for Buchanan

2 demand a recount.

3 try and forment a rabble on the streets - Remember Jesse Jackson's (failed) attempts at that?

4 Litigate

5 Obfuscate, keep counting..

If you read the book you will be amazed at how closely the plan was followed..

44 posted on 04/09/2003 12:27:55 AM PDT by Wil H
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To: Freedom'sWorthIt; ntnychik
I read Hillary's thesis on a FreeRepublic post during the Monica/Impeachment times. Anything in Whitewater archives?

I missed your query earlier... been a little distracted, my Mom passed away a couple of weeks ago and there's been a lot of real-world running around to do.

I actually don't have a direct link to that article, altho I have read it here recently... I am certain I linked in the Dark Underbelly series, but you would have to start at the end and scroll back to locate it.

DUBOB 11-- even *more* tales from the Dark Underbelly of the Beast.....

45 posted on 04/09/2003 2:45:32 AM PDT by backhoe (A nuke for every Kook ( NK, Iraq, Iran, Pak, India... )- what a Clinton "legacy...")
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To: cardinal4
.......(I can quit anytime I want...)........

Sure you can.........

Hate the Clintons, you say? Welcome to the club. Glad to have you aboard.
America survived the Clintons, but just barely, due to the wit and wisdom of
legions of on-the-ball Clinton haters.

The others - those who voted for these two connivers - are the dumbest,
the most moronic, the cheeziest...................Mere words do not suffice.
They ought to be charged with fraud.

46 posted on 04/09/2003 5:41:53 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Bonaparte
Nice take on Alinsky. He's thankfully gone but like all vacuous left-theorists, he's left us with the mess to clean up,
and with the conniving Clintons.
47 posted on 04/09/2003 5:45:23 AM PDT by Liz
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To: PhilDragoo
Wish I had the time to micro-manage your post. Let's just say that corruption reeks out of every pore of the conniving Clintons. Their corruption is so endemic it is tantamount to sedition.

These two calculated lowlifes never had an unscripted moment in their entire lives. Every manipulative move they make is solely to enhance their greed for power and money. Unfortunately for our nation, the Clintons cunning instincts have served them well.

48 posted on 04/09/2003 5:59:49 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
Liz, I have been told my hatred for the Arkansas swindlers is unhealthy. My distrust of the reptilian slime began when Clinton got his haircut at LAX. When the pres is at the airport, nothing moves. Thats why they try to hustle them away ASAP. Not Clinton. Do you know how many planes diverted that day, while the chief bottom feeder got a 250 dollar haircut, AT MY EXPENSE??
To see him go around and blame America at 100,000 a pop, to sign the US up for the ICC, and Kyoto, to allow his pigwife to handle classified material, when she didnt even have a job, Travelgate........I could on and on, but it will just give me heartburn. How can someone who hates America so much, get elected?
49 posted on 04/09/2003 8:35:10 AM PDT by cardinal4 (The Senate Armed Services Comm; the Chinese pipeline into US secrets)
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To: backhoe
Sorry to hear that. Keep your chin up!!!
50 posted on 04/09/2003 9:00:59 AM PDT by Ga Rob (Enviro wackos are Communists in Birkenstocks!!!)
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