Scottish minister: God is sovereign over everything -- even war

BP NEWS ^ | Apr 8, 2003 | Jeff Robinson

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Well, he wasn't Jesus,..and no I do not recognize his name. I know he is an acclaimed Calvinist. Am I missing something??

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Wow.. coming from you that was a huge compliment. You have always represented Christians in a positive light. I for one really appreciate that.

Thanks!!

[Jorge]

If you want to defend your theology, be prepared to use scripture dude. You might want to be ready Jorge, cause you're gonna get a barrage.

I have posted scripture that clearly says God has no desire to see ANY man condemned...and that the Lord offers salvation freely to ALL men.

I am still waiting for any of you to offer an alternative interpretation of those scriptures to defend your claims that man has no free will.

The fact is you can't defend your flimsy non-Biblical arguments.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

A poster by the name of "Just mythoughts" said it so succinctly "As it is written "many are called, few are chosen", don't these words the "many" describe the ones with "freewill" and the "chosen" as the ones predestine? Set aside ones, the just, the elect, etc."

You truly seem like a nice person, but I don't think you are realizing the inherint dangers of thinking we are either chosen or not.

I just do not ascribe to the predestination view. I know I'm a sinner .. and that I must gaurd against evil every day. Be it irritation at another person, or some form of hatred. I am tempted to feel those feelings. I'm not perfect. Only God is, only Christ and the Holy Spirit are.

No offense.. but you keep egging on Jorge. I've known Jorge in this forum for a long long time. He or she, represents a loving Christian view. Non judgemental, and very loving.

I'm not saying you aren't a loving Christian. I'm just saying there comes a time to break away from a debate. To not be so judgemental.

As to the exact verse that mentions free will. I already posted it. If you really want me to, I'll go back through all my posts and find it. But I honestly do not have it in me to spend all night on the computer again.

Let me know if you cannot find it,..and I'll look for it tomorrow. K?

I'm afraid we must agree to disagree on this subject. Which btw,.. was actually about a Scottish Minister supporting the idea that Christains can support a just war.

Which is why I posted Dr. STanleys article too.

My eyes are crossing from all this reading.. so I have to go. Take care.

FRegards, Vets

[Jorge]

"The verses that say it is NOT GOD'S WILL that ANY should PERISH... But that ALL should come to repentance!"

Then why worry about all that Christ stuff. Let's just let everyone enter the Kingdom. The fact is, salvation is God's gift. He can give it to whomever he pleases. Again, using your rule, balance this of the blocks of scripture I have posted.

It's easy to balance these scriptures.

God gives salvation to whomever He pleases. And the NT is full of scriptures that tell us it pleases God to give salvation to all those who believe and accept Christ.

I don't see these two concepts as hard to reconcile.

Since we know the NT clearly proclaims the Gospel message is to offer salvation to ALL mankind.

If Christ offers salvation to ALL men..and yet knows it is impossible for some of them to accept it because God has determined they are going to hell no matter what...that would make the offer from Christ...a lie.

Personally I don't think the Lord can lie. Sorry.

[Jorge]

"This does not mean that God creates evil. Every person has equal opportunity to be saved and fulfill his destiny in the Divine Design of God. However, God knows that some people will reject Salvation and the Divine Design of God. He knows the end from the beginning. And He allows some people to reject authority and express their negative volition to the maximum to become vessels of dishonor."

Did I say God creates evil?

Yes.
You said;

"Doesn't sound like Pharaoh had a free will to me, God made him for this purpose."

According to your interpretation of these scriptures, God made Pharaoh a robot with no free will...programed by God to do evil...through no choice of his own.
And then God would punish Pharaoh for something which he had no control over..which according to your logic is really God's responsibility.

This is a blasphemous smear on the character of God.

Your comments reflect a common misinterpretation about what it means for a sovereign God to give mankind the gift of free will.

[Gamecock]

Jorge, bottom line: What did the Bible say about Pharoah? You can twist scripture all you want. Tell me what the Bible said, period.

[Gamecock]

Of course he wasn't Jesus. He was one of the great revival preachers in 19th century England. A man who Baptists hold dear as a great Gospel preacher. And a man who most Bapist don't realize was took a strong stand on predestination.

BTW, I am not a Calvinist. I agree with much that he wrot, but I am of course a Christian with a Reformed Theology view.

"Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-92) was England's best-known preacher for most of the second half of the nineteenth century. In 1854, just four years after his conversion, Spurgeon, then only 20, became pastor of London's famed New Park Street Church (formerly pastored by the famous Baptist theologian John Gill). The congregation quickly outgrew their building, moved to Exeter Hall, then to Surrey Music Hall. In these venues Spurgeon frequently preached to audiences numbering more than 10,000—all in the days before electronic amplification. In 1861 the congregation moved permanently to the newly constructed Metropolitan Tabernacle."

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

Jorge, this was my original post:

One of the immutable attributes of God is His omnipotence. If God's will in anything is subservient to man or the will of man, God's will is, by extensition, not sovereign in that area. Accordingly, God is made, so to speak, less than omnipotent. Therefore, God would no longer be immutable. Real Bad theology Jorge.

You must reconcile God's holiness as well as His sovereignty and omnipotence. Howya gonna do it?

You responded:

This is easy.
God willingly allows man a degree of free will. This in no way compromises his omnipotence. How silly.

You also replied

I have posted scripture that clearly says God has no desire to see ANY man condemned...and that the Lord offers salvation freely to ALL men.

If you examine my original question and your responses, you have not answered my ORIGINAL question. Do not accuse me of not being able to defend my arguments until you answer my original query.

The fact is that your are at best an individual that believes in a theology known as Arminianism. Your theology position is contrary to mine. They are irreconcilable postions. If you want, we could take this discussion to the Religion forum.

[DeathfromBelow]

It clarifies that you are still wrong to worship the enlightenment of as you put it. "one of the most celebrated and arguably profound deist philosophers"

It is very Christian of me. Christianity means speaking out against those who seek to "Change" the word of God to meet their own small minded self importance.

Get yourself off the throne and look to God for your guidance not some self-appointed guru.

[US admirer]

On the assumption that you are not as obtuse as your posts would imply, I will try to explain very simply the issue one last time, however for the record let may say this first. You have no idea what or who I worship. Citing an acclaimed individual, whom no credible person would attempt to characterize as an atheist, does not imply worship. Got it? Now if you can follow that point, perhaps you will understand that it is irrelevant whether or not he attempts to change to word of God or not, whether he is misguided or not etc- the issue is only whether he believes in God or not. Got that? If he believes in God, and yet does not believe in God's infallibility, then Vets original assetion is ipso facto (that means: by the fact itself) incorrect.That was the point of my post. Now lest you desire to publicly embarrass yourself again, you would be well advised to stop, shut your pie-hole, and contemplate the lesson that someone is trying to teach you. If you are unable to follow these simple points of logic, get some education, or at least blather your non sequiturs (points that do not follow) in someone else's direction, because you will not see a response from me again. Have a nice day.

[Gamecock]

Philemon 1:14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, but of your own free will.

Are you refering to this verse. If you are you are reading it out of context. This referes to hospitality, not salvation. This is indeed the only verse in which free will is mentioned, but not in the context we are discussing.

[Godsrebel]

HA! God screwed up? Looks like we screwed up this
time, buddy! Did you really mean what you said or
are you just being a smart aleck?
We are Americans, proud and spoiled. We forsook our
God and fell into the traps of greed and materialism. We let evil men take over our government and have become responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent unborn children. God
gave us plenty of fair warning that we were going the wrong way. We didn't listen. So God let bin Laden give us a spanking. Although I'm grieved at the consequences and furious at that little culprit, consider 9-11 as a wake-up call for America. It worked, didn't it? We've been doing a lot more praying since then.
You got a problem? Talk to God--- that is, if you have the guts!

[RJCogburn]

are you just being a smart aleck?

Nope.

Your rantings are similar to those of the idiot Falwell and beyond discussion at this point.

You got a problem? Talk to God--- that is, if you have the guts!

I have. I did. I do.

[Godsrebel]

I don't care care who you say I sound like. I don't even want to name who you sound like. What I will say is that God does not "screw up." He has a purpose for everything. He's still in control.
So you talk to God, do you? Well I want to know this: whose side are you on? Either you're with God or against Him. You can't be somewhere in the middle.
I'm praying for you.

[Gamecock]

Predestination does not puff someone up. It is humbling! It brings us to our knees to think that we, filthy wretched sinners, have practically spat in God's face and yet He softens our hard hearts and draws us to Himself with cords of love. Would that make you feel good about yourself? NO! It makes you realize how utterly depraved you are, and how merciful God is.

Personally, I think it's mighty high-minded to think that we of our own free will strolled down the aisle and claimed our salvation. It's arrogant to think that we made the ultimate decision, we can pat ourselves on the back because we decided to follow Christ. How can you take credit for salvation that was given and not taken?

Well said! <><

[Wrigley]

bump

[Gamecock]

it is pretty obvious how.

Maybe to you, but I don't see how.