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Scottish minister: God is sovereign over everything -- even war
BP NEWS ^ | Apr 8, 2003 | Jeff Robinson

Posted on 04/08/2003 3:45:52 PM PDT by Dubya

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (BP)--The sovereignty of God as presented in the Book of Revelation should remind Christians that God is in control of all the events of history, including warfare, Scottish minister Eric Alexander noted in a two-sermon series at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Alexander, a Presbyterian minister, said Revelation 4-5 paint three pictures that should give believers assurance during uncertain times. The chapters unpack God's kingship, His guidance over the history of creation and the central act of history -- God's redemption of sinners in Jesus Christ, Alexander said.

"We are conscious that these are critical hours in which we live," he said at the Louisville, Ky., campus in mid-March. "We are aware of the question, 'Where is the hand controlling the events we are passing through?'

"The relevance of the Bible at such a time as this and the relevance of Revelation is that it takes us to this throne of God. It [Revelation] is not there to satisfy our curiosity, but to give us a perspective on the world in which we live and the whole of history, so that we are able to see it [history] from a different vantage point from the rest of the world."

The apostle John presents the throne as the central feature of his vision in Revelation 4, Alexander said. This is highly significant because the eternal kingship of God is evident by John's pointing out that the throne is constantly occupied.

John penned Revelation while suffering in exile on the island of Patmos, which Alexander described as "a kind of Alcatraz in the ancient world." Paul's audience -- the seven churches in Asia -- also were undergoing intense persecution. John shared his vision to encourage the churches and to remind them that God was still on the throne despite their suffering, he said.

Alexander recalled where he was when terrorists attacked America on Sept. 11, 2001 -- in the clubhouse at St. Andrews golf course in Scotland.

Alexander remembered how a fellow golfer reacted to the news after learning Alexander was a minister. The man's words echo the very thought that sometimes enters a believer's mind during seasons of suffering, he said.

"He said to me, 'I guess your God has gone for a holiday,'" Alexander said. "And that is the deep fear that lies even in the hearts of some trembling, faithful souls: 'Is God really on the throne?' And John clearly gives us the answer in the outset of his vision."

In Revelation 5, John's vision includes an angel holding a scroll. This scroll is the record of human destiny and divine purpose for the world, Alexander said. The scroll is both complete -- it contains no blank spaces -- and is sealed.

This points to the fact that, while every event in history is in God's hands, it is sealed from the sphere of human speculation or knowledge, Alexander said. It also shows that there is God-ordained purpose for every event in life and that all God's purposes in the world are a closed book to human beings.

"John weeps. It has made him deeply sad and the mystery of life is beginning to engulf him," he said.

Believers should note that John points to the climax of history in Revelation 5:6. The "Lamb standing, as if slain," is Christ, who is the key to history," Alexander said.

During times of war and suffering, Christians must look to the Lamb and take comfort in the fact that His purposes - even though mysterious from a human perspective - will not be thwarted, he said. This should lead Christians to worship God in awe and wonder, he added.

"That Lamb is the crucified, risen, exalted and now reigning Lord Jesus Christ," Alexander said. "He is the key to history, the key to life. Christ is the key to every mystery that life brings to us because He was slain and with His blood purchased a people for God.

"That is the central thing about the whole of history. It is the building of the church, which is the central element in history. When that work is done and when the church of Jesus Christ is complete, that is when God will bring down the curtain on the affairs of this sad world. May God help us that we may have that special view of the world which comes from dwelling near the throne."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: faith; godisholy; iraqifreedom; sovereigntyofgod; thegospel
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To: rwfromkansas
Well Said!
21 posted on 04/08/2003 6:02:44 PM PDT by Gamecock (As seen on Taglinus FreeRepublicus - 5th Edition)
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To: rwfromkansas
I'll have to let Prof. Lewis do my talking:

"Ye can know nothing of the end of all things, or nothing expressible in those terms. It may be, as the Lord said to the Lady Julian, that all will be well, and all will be well, and all manner of things will be well. But it's ill talking of such questions."

"Because they are too terrible, Sir?"

"No. Because all answers deceive. If ye put the question from within Time and are asking about possibilities, the answer is certain. The choice of ways is before you. Neither is closed. Any man may choose eternal death. Those who choose it will have it. But if ye are trying to leap on into eternity, if ye are trying to see the final state of all things as it will be (for so ye must speak) when there are no more possibilities left but only the Real, then ye ask what cannot be answered to mortal ears. Time is the very lens through which ye see -- small and clear, as men see through the wrong end of a telescope -- something that would otherwise be too big for ye to see at all. That thing is Freedom: the gift whereby ye most resemble your Maker and are yourselves parts of eternal reality. . . .

"Ye cannot know eternal reality by a definition. Time itself, and all acts and events that fill Time, are the definition, and it must be lived. The Lord said we were gods. How long could ye bear to look (without Time's lens) on the greatness of your own soul and the eternal reality of her choice?"

And suddenly all was changed. . . . .

C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce.
22 posted on 04/08/2003 6:23:08 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: Gamecock
Uh, Genesis chapter 3, for starters . . . and I think St. Paul has a good deal to say about it as well.
23 posted on 04/08/2003 6:24:46 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Please see: Omnipotence and Other Theological Mistakes, by Charles Hartshorne
http://www.uua.org/uuhs/duub/articles/charleshartshorne.html


One of the most celebrated and arguably profound deist philosophers in the history of this country thinks otherwise. (see above) You would have a tough time convincing this man that he did not believe in God.

24 posted on 04/08/2003 6:47:22 PM PDT by US admirer
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To: AnAmericanMother
I don't see that any where in Genesis 3. While Adam and Eve had will to eat or not eat from the tree, once they did we became slaves to sin. They had the choice, once they ate, our relationship with God changed. Only by the power of the Holy Spirit working on out hearts do we want to change our lives. Keep reading to hear about our will.

"I think St. Paul has a good deal to say about it as well."

Paul actually says the exact opposite:

Romans 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."

Doesn't sound like Pharaoh had a free will to me, God made him for this purpose. The next set of verses from the same chapter talk about the fairness of what God chooses to do with us:

Romans 9: 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?

Want more?

Ephesians 1;3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.

You see, it is His will, not ours!


25 posted on 04/08/2003 6:51:47 PM PDT by Gamecock (As seen on Taglinus FreeRepublicus - 5th Edition)
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To: Gamecock
It is inherently contradictory: "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God that worketh in you." Hence the Lewis quote - there's no point in trying to separate out the contradiction between man's temporal life and God's eternal purposes.

As a priest once said to me, "It's not our problem - it's God's problem. And He's got it under control."

26 posted on 04/08/2003 6:58:10 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: RJCogburn
If so, God really screwed up on 9/11.

And some were present at the same time reporting to Him about the Galileans, whose blood Pilate mixed with their sacrifices. And answering, Jesus said to them, Do you think that these Galileans were sinners beyond all the Galileans, because they suffered such things? No, I say to you; but if you do not repent, you will all perish in the same way. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell, and killed them, do you think that these were sinners beyond all men who lived in Jerusalem? No, I say to you; but if you do not repent, you will all perish in the same way.--Luke 13:1-5

27 posted on 04/08/2003 7:07:55 PM PDT by CrosscutSaw (God is sovereign -- Jesus is Lord.)
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To: Gamecock
You are kidding, right?

Tell me you are not saying God did not give us free will or that it was not mentioned in the Bible. Because if you are.. then everything you say in this thread is mute and irrelevant. No offense meant,.. just fact.

FRegards, Vets
28 posted on 04/08/2003 7:10:32 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: AnAmericanMother
Philippians 2 12: Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

There is nothing contradictory here. All through the Bible, people trembled when called. The nakedness of our sin is exposed. Verse 13 makes it clear that it is God in control, not I! God, gives me the will. That shows it is not my will.

If we deny God's soverenty, we wrongly perceive we are in control, not God.
29 posted on 04/08/2003 7:15:13 PM PDT by Gamecock (As seen on Taglinus FreeRepublicus - 5th Edition)
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To: Gamecock
I just read some more of your replies. By your theory God would be responsible for all things evil. Like men sodomising little boys, or raping little girls, or murdering them. Or for anything people do that is evil.

Is this what you mean to say? Because that goes totally against "free will" and whatever it is that "you" propose that God does (Which I vehemently disagree with).
30 posted on 04/08/2003 7:15:44 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Tell me you aren't going to argue with scripture! Because if you do, you are the one who is irrelevant. Please consider what I posted in 23.

31 posted on 04/08/2003 7:19:34 PM PDT by Gamecock (As seen on Taglinus FreeRepublicus - 5th Edition)
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To: Gamecock
Want more?

Ephesians 1;3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.

You see, it is His will, not ours!

How can you ignore the scriptures that tell us mankind has free will and yet pick and choose the scriptures you want to make your point?

The truth is when we balance ALL scripture, we find that the Bible teaches BOTH God's sovereignty and man's free will when it comes to world events and salvation.

While men might have problems reconciling these two concepts, the Bible teaches both are facts.

32 posted on 04/08/2003 7:21:39 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: DannyTN
All your armies belong to me.
33 posted on 04/08/2003 7:23:51 PM PDT by miele man
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To: DannyTN
To be totally politcally incorrect and to parrot this... "God is in control of all the events of history, including warfare"

Does anyone doubt on which side GOD has sat? I'm an agnostic as in, I'm a fence sitter about GOD of the Bible..but SHEESH EVER battle entered by the United States has entered has been against SADISTIC regimes. Hitler Kim Jong et. al. Pol Pot(Vietnam types) Stalin and his ilk Noriega and his drug dealers The list continues. It seems that the United States is the voice of a fair and Just god. The rest of the world uses either NO GOD(commies) or a Wahhabist god(Islam) to slaughter people. If there is a force for good, the United States of America is the hand of God. It's military victories support that supposition to the chagrin of the followers of Mohammad the pedophile of the year 700. If there is an Anti-Christ, he is actively using Islam to thwart the forces of Good. Time is telling. Does anyone question it at this point? -Mal
34 posted on 04/08/2003 7:24:38 PM PDT by Malsua
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
I just read some more of your replies. By your theory God would be responsible for all things evil. Like men sodomising little boys, or raping little girls, or murdering them. Or for anything people do that is evil.

Good point. His replies on regarding predestination were just as far off the mark...implying God picks who He wants to save and sends others to Hell just for His pleasure.
This is a warped interpretation of scripture that smears the Holy character of God.

35 posted on 04/08/2003 7:24:51 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: tinacart
Pinging myself...
36 posted on 04/08/2003 7:25:23 PM PDT by tinacart
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To: Gamecock
While God indeed has an eternal purpose and sees all in His eternal present, we nevertheless have free will and choices to make temporally.

Otherwise, you fall into the predestination trap. As it says in the 39 Articles,

As the godly consideration of Predestination, and our Election in Christ, is full of sweet, pleasant, and unspeakable comfort to godly persons, and such as feel in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ, mortifying the works of the flesh, and their earthly members, and drawing up their mind to high and heavenly things, as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their faith of eternal Salvation to be enjoyed through Christ, as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God: So, for curious and carnal persons, lacking the Spirit of Christ, to have continually before their eyes the sentence of God's Predestination, is a most dangerous downfall, whereby the Devil doth thrust them either into desperation, or into wretchlessness of most unclean living, no less perilous than desperation.

37 posted on 04/08/2003 7:26:33 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: Dubya
bump......thanks for the post.
38 posted on 04/08/2003 7:30:53 PM PDT by Lady Eileen
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To: tinacart
ROMANS 13!
39 posted on 04/08/2003 7:30:55 PM PDT by tinacart
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To: Gamecock
Doesn't sound like Pharaoh had a free will to me, God made him for this purpose. The next set of verses from the same chapter talk about the fairness of what God chooses to do with us: Romans 9: 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?

Want more?

Heres's some more for you;

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:3-4:
"This is good, and pleases God our savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth".

Contrary to your claims...these verses tell us that NOBODY goes to Hell simply because God wants them to.

40 posted on 04/08/2003 7:36:47 PM PDT by Jorge
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