Conservatives, liberals fear broader anti-terror powers - sides unite to protest Justice's push

The Dallas Morning News ^ | April 13, 2003 | By MICHELLE MITTELSTADT / The Dallas Morning News

[MeekOneGOP]

Seems a little early for the Chicken Little's to be running around, doesn't it?

[Support Free Republic]

Attention!

Our troops give so much of themselves, and we all benefit from their efforts.

The next time you look at your bank balance, why not find some way to take some money and put it towards supporting the members of our armed services in some way? Maybe find a family who has someone serving, and buy them dinner, or some groceries, or a gift for their children? Maybe find a way to contribute to a fund for the memory of any of those who have fallen? Our armed forces deserve our support in tangible ways.

[sauropod]

That's the problem w/ Grover Norquist. He has left-of-center friends.

[thepitts]

When people in power are saying "The Patriot Act actually strengthened constitutional protections," It doesn't take chicken little to see red flags popping up.

[risk]

Fearful that the Bush administration is poised to ask Congress for greater anti-terrorism powers, including the right to strip Americans of their citizenship, ...

As long as we have an Atorney General who supports 2nd amendment rights, and the infringements in the Patriot act are given expiration dates, I support them. We'll have no rights at all when suitcase nukes start killing us.

And as far as stripping citizenship from people who never deserved it in the first place, why are we still discussing it? Extremists of any stripe who manage to worm their way into our country don't deserve to be here. And furthermore, I'm of the opinion that while human rights are constant, the Bill of Rights applies to citizens only.

[MeekOneGOP]

Thanks! bttt . . .

[LibertarianInExile]

Oh, yeah, Eagle Forum and ACU are well known for going crazy early. They're just nuts. C'mon.

Now that almost all the usual suspects are here...

Everything government does in the name of security and safety and anti-terrorism is 'reasonable' to someone. Obviously, Patriot II is too much for these people. Where would it be that you draw the line, exactly? What would be unreasonable in the search for a secure United States? Let me state it again: where exactly would it be that liberty is more important than security? What would be going too far for you in terms of the 1st, 2nd, and 5th amendments? Feel free to add more of the Constitutional areas you'd think delineate a bright line, but don't neglect these.

Feel free to ping anyone you want to this thread, but please, answer the questions first. If you can't state at least where going too far would be, honestly, you just need to consider de-Freeping yourself for being completely unable to honestly discuss a question that could not be more on topic.

[risk]

For me, making privacy-invading clauses permanent would be going too far. Orrin Hatch makes me nervous, and I wonder why he thinks it's too "inconvenient" to renew the clauses at regular intervals. Our rights have been hard-fought and high prices have been paid; it shouldn't be "too hard" to remember to renew a compromise to them.

I haven't seen a list of Patriot Act clauses that are up for being made permanent, so I don't exactly know what to say there.

As far as TIA goes, it scares me. We should be debating this stuff out in the open before it's deployed without our permission, and then misused. Remember that census data was accessed to track down Japanese Americans during WWII. (But was that bad? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.)

[toothless]

holding people w/o trial is going too far. warrentless searches are going too far.

[RJCogburn]

Seems a little early for the Chicken Little's to be running around, doesn't it?

OMG! You're serious, aren't you?

[Cultural Jihad]

[m1911]

"Although Justice Department officials insist the 86-page bill is a preliminary draft that bears little resemblance to what ultimately will be requested"

AKA, "the trial balloon".

[eno_]

OK, CJ, just post your SSN and let us read the open book of your life. After all, you are pure as the driven snow.

[Cultural Jihad]

Chase Manhattan Bank already holds much more information than the FBI does. The Patriot Act frees up our self-governance institutions to share information. If only Al Qaeda wanted to play tiddlywinks instead of commit mass murder of Americans would the Chicken Little ideologues have a valid point.

[MeekOneGOP]

Thanks ! bttt . . .

[AAABEST]

AMENDMENT IV - The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

AMENDMENT V - No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The law is very clear and easy to read. People who embrace this garbage show nothing but contempt for the law and everything that's made this country great. It's outrageous that they're even thinking about a Patriot II. Patriot I was enough of an anti-liberty, anti-American POS.

Bottom line, the executive and police want to be able to "declare" whoever they like a terrorist, search and seize whatever or whoever they like without such petty encumberances such as a nosey court, lawyer, family member or the constitution getting in the way.

Can someone tell me why it's now legal for bureaucrats to rob houses and hack computers without notification? The constitution is very clear on this. Why is it they can now log all of your credit card purchases and tap your phone without notice? Why is it we're forfeiting our property and vehicles without being convicted of anything? How did we get to the point where we've allowed undereducated, underpaid, dumbass bureacrats to go through our lives, at will without warrant.

People who support such measures don't deserve to be Americans IMO.

Some of us have become ignorant slobs who are fine with all of this as long as they're well fed and given the illusion that freak-boy Ashcroft is keeping them safe. Disgusting.

[eno_]

Real threats to our security can be dealt with up-close and personal - by installing bugs in their houses. This activity is self-limiting.

We don't need a surveillance state to fight terror.

[Roscoe]

Their hysteria, as always, lacks specifics.

[MeekOneGOP]

One of the things I heard about the Patriot act was that now the FBI could actually read the newspaper and follow leads from that now. Seems silly to me they couldn't before.

Better watch what you post here on FR from now on. I know I am. lol ! < /sarcasm >

[AAABEST]

SUSPECT PROFILE

Name: ********* (blacked out for security purposes)

AKA:MeeknMing

Reason for Terrorist Profile: Suspect frequents far right web sights. Unusually strong pro-gun opinions. Sympathetic to Branch Davidians in Waco indcident which may indicate McViegh type personality traits.

Data Gathering Method: Legal download of suspects entire hard drive without notice while suspect went out to shop, as per provisions of USA Patriot Act. Warrant issued by Magistrate appointed by current administration.

Current Status: Held in undisclosed location for indefinite period of time until charges can be filed on unrelated evidence found on suspects hard drive. No phone calls or contact with family permitted until interrogation process is complete. When attorney contact is permitted all communication will be closely monitored