Anglosphere: Why do they hate us? (Interesting analysis)

UPI ^ | 4/12/03 | James C. Bennett

[jalisco555]

WASHINGTON, April 12 (UPI) -- Why do they hate us? This question has been asked incessantly since Sept. 11, 2001. Sometimes it is asked about Muslims in general; sometimes about the Arab world in particular.

However, it is worth considering the possibility that the root source of anti-Americanism in the world lies in the deep-rooted anti-modern tradition of Continental Europe.

Just as the Baathist movement lately of Iraq and still in power in Syria is a localized variant of European fascism, the broader anti-Americanism currently fashionable on all continents comes ultimately from what some have called the Industrial Counter-Revolution. This is a comprehensive category for the various reactions in Europe against the program of the Industrial and Democratic Revolutions, or liberalism in the classical sense -- individualism, free markets, and technological and social progress.

Scholars such as Alan Macfarlane have found that individualistic social patterns (such as a preference for nuclear over extended families) have been very deep-seated in England, going back at least to the 14th century, while the reverse has been true in Continental Europe up to the Industrial Revolution.

This might suggest that both fascism and communism emerged on the European continent as a search for the lost security (at the expense of individual independence) of the extended family under the patriarchal rule of the paterfamilias in the traditional Continental society shattered by the Industrial Revolution.

Another explanation, not mutually exclusive with the above, may lie in seeing the Holocaust not as an isolated instance of social madness, but the latter half of a great historical cycle beginning with the emancipation of Europe's Jews during the Napoleonic Wars.

Although the Anglosphere began the Industrial Revolution in the 17th century, the period roughly from 1830 through 1930 saw a very rapid expansion of that revolution in Western Europe, and most particularly in German-speaking Europe. This expansion resulted in the emergence of a brilliant and dynamic civilization.

Given the prominence of Jewish Europeans in that civilization, it must be asked whether one of its principal stimuli was not the excitement of mutual discovery, in which newly emancipated Jews brought their analytical skills honed by their tradition of scholarship and debate, while accessing the much wider world of Western science, literature, and scholarship from which they had previously been closed off?

How can we calculate how much more dynamism was added by the everyday interaction of people who had previously been kept in parallel and uncommunicative spheres? The Germanosphere, including not just the Second Reich, but Austria-Hungary, German Switzerland, and the German-speaking communities of Eastern Europe and the Americas, really might better be dubbed the Judaeo-Germanosphere during that period.

Continental European Jews, because they owed their very presence in the larger civilization to the values of liberalism and modernism, were one of the first and most obvious targets of the Industrial Counter-Revolution.

The collapse of globalization and consequent rise of totalitarianism set the stage for the end of the great Judaeo-German hybrid civilization of Europe and its French counterpart. Those European Jews who were left alive at the end of the war overwhelmingly desired to leave, and they left to two destinations: Israel, and the Anglosphere.

With this emigration, on top of the previous great Jewish emigration to London and New York in the late 19th century, much of the energy, creativity and contributions of European Jews were given to the Anglosphere rather than the Continent. The cost to the Continent, and the benefits to the Anglosphere has never, to my knowledge, been calculated. The cost might never be calculable, but it is real.

Continental Europeans, helped by the Marshall Plan and American investment, rebuilt their countries with vigor after 1945. Led by the last generations to mature in the environment of the hybrid Jewish-European civilization, Europe seemed to pick up where it left off in 1933.

Gradually, however, Europe seemed to run out of creativity, in everything from arts, to academia, to demographic vigor, to the will to political reform. Endless rehashing of elsewhere-discredited Marxism replaced creative political thought. Overt fascism and national chauvinism were banned, but a new Euro-chauvinism took its place, loudly proclaiming the superiority of European ways over crude American ones -- a new chauvinism on a wider scale, based like the old national chauvinism primarily on resentment.

It may be coincidence, but these new generations are the ones who grew up without the experience of studying, working and socializing with substantial numbers of Jews. Can this have no effect on politics?

Consider that the current war has seen the rapid re-emergence of the classical anti-Semitic themes in Europe, and coming from the same classes and types that supported the previous anti-globalization revolt of the 1920s and 1930s. The whitewashing of anti-Semitism as "anti-Zionism" grows more and more transparent by the day. French television has begun to adopt the terminology of the Vichy propagandists in reporting on the "Anglo-American attack" on Iraq. "Neo-con" serves the same code-word duty that "rootless cosmopolite" did in Stalin's anti-Jewish purges.

The widespread anti-Americanism in the world, of which Continental Europe is the ultimate source, has almost nothing to do with the character of President George W. Bush or the current administration, or other such cosmetic issues.

The modern world was first carried forward by two great civilizations. The Anglosphere was one. The dynamic industrializing culture of 19th century Continental Europe, to which the spark of the Judaeo-Christian encounter was so important, was the other. That culture committed suicide in the '30s. Perhaps its successor is not the revival of that culture, but rather its zombie.

In considering the Holocaust, most attention has been given to its direct victims, as is appropriate. However, we must also consider that it was a form of self-administered lobotomy for Continental European culture.

It would not be surprising if the twin anti-modernist themes of anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism, now rapidly coalescing into a single nasty mess visible in many of the pro-Saddam demonstrations of the past year, become once again the predominant political-cultural theme in Western Continental Europe, overwhelming the decent and positive forces there that had previously prevailed.

And we should not be surprised if such people hate us.

[jalisco555]

An interesting analysis of the terrible behavior of continental Western Europe.

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[Anamensis]

Great article! I surmised this myself about a year ago but he puts it more elegantly than I ever could. I've just been saying that American protestantism and Orthodox Jews are the biggest obstacles to the spread of Islam and Marxism, and that is why they hate us.

Here's hoping that a relative handful of capitalists can defeat a world full of collectivist barbarian hoardes.

[linton59]

Thanks for posting this very interesting and well written analysis. Although I cannot yet formulate my thoughts into words, I have always smelled anti-Semitism at the root of all this. After anti-Semitism follows Anti-Christianity. I think the Jews do not acknowledge this, and it has not even occurred to Christians. Christianity swept through Europe and left, leaving only a remnant, its great cathedrals used for tour groups and state funerals. While Judaism and Christianity reigned together,( BOTH ignoring the FACT that Jesus was a Jew), science, art, music, inventions, literacy and literature exploded. (We create because we are created in the image of the Creator.) Lastly, why anti-Semitism worldwide? Because God chose the Jews. Only because He felt like it, not because of them. If he had chosen the Apaches and history had proceeded the same way, we would be in the same fix with the world loathing aimed at the Apaches.

[TopQuark]

A brilliant insight!

[linton59]

Thanks for posting this very interesting and well written analysis. Although I cannot yet formulate my thoughts into words, I have always smelled anti-Semitism at the root of all this. After anti-Semitism follows Anti-Christianity. I think the Jews do not acknowledge this, and it has not even occurred to Christians. Christianity swept through Europe and left, leaving only a remnant, its great cathedrals used for tour groups and state funerals. While Judaism and Christianity reigned together,( BOTH ignoring the FACT that Jesus was a Jew), science, art, music, inventions, literacy and literature exploded. (We create because we are created in the image of the Creator.) Lastly, why anti-Semitism worldwide? Because God chose the Jews. Only because He felt like it, not because of them. If he had chosen the Apaches and history had proceeded the same way, we would be in the same fix with the world loathing aimed at the Apaches.

[TopQuark]

American Protestantism and Orthodox Jews are the biggest obstacles to the spread of Islam and Marxism, and that is why they hate us.

Exactly right and worth repeating (many times a day).

[linton59]

Anamensis consolidates this better than I. Sorry for the double post - operator error.

[Anamensis]

Believe me, I repeat it to as many people as I can, every day! I'm being forced to take a commie-indoc education class right now for certification, and the last two weeks were spent on "Whiteness" studies. Of course, they redraw the categories so that if you are an individualist, middle class member of society, regardless of what color you are, you are "white." And if you are poor, collectivist, and perpetually angry, you are "not white."

In other words, attacks on "whiteness" are really attacks on capitalism. All of the writers agree that the only way to eradicate "systemic racism" is to eradicate capitalism. The communist plot, as it were, has not gone away and its proponents have not stopped trying. They are simply changing their wording. Now it's all about "white, male privilege." But it's just a code word for pushing Marxist planks onto the platform.

[BeAllYouCanBe]

" That culture committed suicide in the '30s. Perhaps its successor is not the revival of that culture, but rather its zombie. "

Interesting -- very interesting. When I hear that the largest religion in France and Great Britian is Islam it is clear that "ZOMBIE" is the best description of European culture today. I've heard that Denmark in 20 years will have an Islamic majority based on white birth rates compared to mid eastern immigrants birth rates.

The "Old Europe" is rotting from within without a way to defend itself from its self inflicted decay.

[vaudine]

Yes, great article. Your surmise that a handful of capitalists might overcome these misguided hoardes may depend on the nature of the multinational companies.

It seems to me that many of them financially support these anti-western, modern liberal protests(the article contrasted true liberalism and today's liberalism,which is so pernicious.) These multinationals see themselves as so powerful that they can be in control of the world. They fail, IMHO, to understand that with the demise or weakening of the US and other democratic countries, even they are at the mercies of tyrants who will want access and control of their wealth.

vaudine

[BeAllYouCanBe]

"But it's just a code word for pushing Marxist planks onto the platform."

Ronald Reagan quote, "Communists are people who read Marx and Engles, anti-Communists are those who understand Marx and Engles."

Marxism is alive because it operates on a basis of fairness and at a juvenile level all of us want thing to be fair and just. So those who understand the fallacy of Communism look stupid and selfish to the enlightened Marxist.

Sadly, most liberal Americans don't realize they are Marxists and act solely on the emotions. I've heard that Communism = Mommyism and there are millions of people pushing the "nanny culture" it is difficult to stand against it. You have my sympathy!

[Publius6961]

Anglosphere: Why do they hate us? (Interesting analysis)

Who cares?
Let Old Europe stew in its own putrefaction and fade away.

If any of them try to swim to civization, we can hire some Iraqis to shoot them in the water; they're really good at that.

[Forceful1]

you said; When I hear that the largest religion in France and Great Britian is Islam it is clear that "ZOMBIE" is the best description of European culture today.

I don't know about France, but can I enquire as to the source of the information re the UK that you are relying on?

[BeAllYouCanBe]

"And if you are poor, collectivist, and perpetually angry, you are "not white."

When I was young in the 50's schools taught success stories and the message was, "anyone can make it in America."

Today kids hear that nobody has a chance and the deck is stacked against you if you are not "white" and envy of those who have achieved gets planted.

[headsonpikes]

Another explanation might be that they are either Frenchmen or those who follow French intellectual fashions.

The French have certainly been our most persistant enemy; having viewed us with a hateful eye for close to 1000 years. I think the French are fully capable of hating both Jews and English. Ask one.

I'm only half joking.

[BeAllYouCanBe]

I beleive I heard that more people in the UK attend a Mosque than any one demomination.

What information do you have on this? You sound offended?

[geedee]

A brilliant insight!

Agreed!

[risk]

After anti-Semitism follows Anti-Christianity.

I'm an atheist who somehow agrees with you on this score. While I don't personally believe in God, I find much to appreciate in Christianity, and its core has been an effective means for transmitting values from generation to generation in our civilization. In fact, it has often been speculated that Christianity enabled mercantilism and then capitalism.

Of course I don't believe that Jews are "chosen," but I think their values and social structures have helped them to excell as human beings.

The 9/11 experience has caused me to shift my sensibilities. I am firmly committed to separation of church and state, but the Christian right's agenda is much more comfortable to me these days.

I see Christians as my brothers and sisters in (most) values now. Extremists of any sort offend me, but Christian zealots are usually the kindest people you'd ever want to meet.

Christianity has gone through an enlightenment. Islam may never, and I'm not going to wait around for it.

And yes, anti-Semitism and anti-Christianity are two nearly identical evils, although one addresses race and the other belief. (But after 9/11, I feel all of us Americans are Jews.)

Martin Niemoeller, a Holocaust surviver put it this way:

First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist - so I said nothing.
Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat - so I did nothing.
Then they came for the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist.
And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew - so I did little.
Then when they came for me, there was no one left who could stand up for me."

[jalisco555]

Who cares?

I think we should care. These countries are not merely misguided. They are actively working to harm our national interests. In other words they are behaving like enemies. If we are to thwart them it is important to understand why they are doing what they do. "Know your enemy" is the first rule of war.

[RWG]

It may be coincidence, but these new generations are the ones who grew up without the experience of studying, working and socializing with substantial numbers of Jews...so diversity is essential to the flourishing of society.

[Nick Danger]

I've just been saying that American protestantism and Orthodox Jews are the biggest obstacles to the spread of Islam and Marxism, and that is why they hate us.

You raise an interesting point, and it is one that the author totally ignores. About halfway through that article, alarm bells started going off in my head as it became apparent that this author was insinuating that Jews are the source of all creativity, and that without its Jews, Europe was an essentially non-creative, fascism-prone basket case. Well, there's anti-Semitism, and then there's that, which to me sounds like the flip side of the same coin.

In fact, at the same time Europe was losing its Jews, it was losing its Christians. The dominant religion in Old Europe today is a kind of arrogant agnosticism, devolving into paganism or self-denied Nature worship -- self-denied because they disguise it as "scientific" environmentalism, even though the "science" is bogus... indistinguishable from magical thinking propagated by witch doctors, except that theirs wear white lab coats.

We have the same forces operating here, but for some reason they have not been nearly as successful. They occupy our academies and our media, but their proselytizing still falls on mostly deaf ears.

I think it comes down to hope and fear. Those who hold a deep belief in God tend to view the future with hope. The prospect of facing the world "alone" (individualism) does not scare them because they do not see themselves as being alone.

Those who have no God can only be terrified of what the future might bring, and so they seek multi-lateral, socialistic, "community" solutions to their constant fear of being trounced by the fates.

I suspect it has more to do with that, than it does with the presence of Jews. Jews just happen to be an instance of people who see more hope than fear. But they are not alone in that.

[RWG]

This might suggest that both fascism and communism emerged on the European continent as a search for the lost security (at the expense of individual independence) of the extended family under the patriarchal rule of the paterfamilias in the traditional Continental society shattered by the Industrial Revolution...this is the same dynamic that social observers use to explain the formation and strength of gangs. The loss of even the nuclear family shattered by the welfare state led to the emergence of gangs.

[NewRomeTacitus]

It is no coincidence that anti-Semitism has risen in direct proportion to Europe’s slow takeover by Islam. Canada has succumbed to its influence, hence their direct opposition to the war in Iraq.
The “religion of peace” can never slake its thirst for infidel blood.

[BeAllYouCanBe]

"The dominant religion in Old Europe today is a kind of arrogant agnosticism, devolving into paganism or self-denied Nature worship -- self-denied because they disguise it as "scientific" environmentalism, even though the "science" is bogus"[snip]

Before 9-11 the biggest issue the Euro-weenies had with the US was the Kyoto Accord and Globalism. After 9-11 the true nature of the rift became evident. This was a culture war that the Europeans opted out and are now aligning with the Islamists.

[mo]

Americans are "rejects/refugees" from all other countries. It should be of little surprise the rest of the world is intolerant of us, as that is why we are all here in the USA

[EvilOverlord]

Communists are people who read Marx and Engles, anti-Communists are those who understand Marx and Engles

From each, according to his ability, to each according to his needs

People everywhere seem to be indoctrinated with the slogan "Communism is a great system, but it doesn't work because of human nature." I knew this to be true when I was in elementary school in Ohio. I have been told the same thing by a native Californian, and a native Chinese. It does seem to be a universally held belief. The problem is that it isn't true.

If communism and capitalism are thought about in a mathematical way, it is easy to see why communism fails and capitialism succeeds.

How to maximixe the return to an individual in a communist system? Simply show the most need and the least ability. Do this and you accrue the benefits of the system. From each, according to his ability, to each according to his needs. An economic system that rewards those that do not produce and punishes those who do by diverting the fruits of that production to the non-producers is doomed to a downward spiral of less and less production. We see this in every communist country that has existed.

The way to maximize the return of an individual in a capitalist system is simply to produce more goods and services that are desired by society at large. Capitalism rewards productivity and punishes non-producers. This leads to an upward spiral of increasing productivity in a society.

Pit a system that punishes productivity against a system that rewards productivity, and the system that rewards productivity wins every time. And, since capitalism rewards production of goods that are deemed desirable by society, it naturally works best in a free and democratic society.

[polemikos]

Recipe for Arab Advancement
-------------------------------
Mix together liberal amounts of tribalism, Pan-Arabism, Islamism, Socialism, and fascism.
Stir well and serve seething hot ... MMmmmmmmmm ... good.

[jalisco555]

It is an interesting article but at it's heart it is racist.

While it may be true that the author somewhat overstates his case I think you are being a bit harsh. What is true is that every nation that has welcomed Jews has done so to it's benefit and every nation that has persecuted Jews has done so to it's detriment.

[BeAllYouCanBe]

" If communism and capitalism are thought about in a mathematical way, it is easy to see why communism fails and capitialism succeeds. "

Sadly, thinking skills are in decline in the US. The current education establishment that seeks to devalue grades and competition in the classroom does not arm kids to become adults in a capitalist society. Here in California they are trying to "outlaw" dodge-ball as too dangerous and competitive.

I don't believe that they teach the failure of Marxism anymore just the plight of the homeless.

[BeAllYouCanBe]

"Stir well and serve"

Good, very goood, but you need a little oil money to really make it a witches brew.

[Anamensis]

I don't know if the author means to suggest that Christians are not a source of creativity... but yes, chances are, to him, Europe is still Christian. Many of these countries are nominally Catholic, and he might not be delving much into whether or not they are "really" Christian. It's hard for many people to see past all those cathedrals, and the stance of the Pope on this war reinforces the notion that Catholicism and Socialism are quite as able to be cozy as Islam and Socialism. Now the Catholics will be coming to get me, so I'm going to go hide.

[jocon307]

"The communist plot, as it were, has not gone away and its proponents have not stopped trying."

Here is another thing worth repeating several times a day and to any and all within earshot. This is a fascinating article, although I haven't yet finished it. (Must do laundry or the clowns will eat me!) I don't know if this fits in or not, but I have always thought the many Jews who were early (and present day) Communists are just practicing typical Jewish Self-hatred.

It is proper and entirely precise to call it Godless Communism, but in this description we find the key to our eventual victory over this life-crushing ideology. We will prevail in the end, because the Rights ennumertaed in our Constitution, and expressed so eloquently in the Declaration of Independance do come from God, not from the state, not from one's fellows, not from words, no matter how eloquent, written on paper or stone. They come from our Creator, our job is to protect them, as is our job with the rest of His Creation.

[Anamensis]

I'm an atheist who somehow agrees with you on this score. While I don't personally believe in God, I find much to appreciate in Christianity... The 9/11 experience has caused me to shift my sensibilities. I am firmly committed to separation of church and state, but the Christian right's agenda is much more comfortable to me these days. ...Extremists of any sort offend me, but Christian zealots are usually the kindest people you'd ever want to meet.

I agree 100%. I'm an atheist too, and 9/11 also made me realize something with blinding clarity: Muslims want to kill me. Christians just want me to marry the person I'm living with.

My only variance with you is in MY version of the Neimoeller saying:

First they came for the Communists, and I said nothing, because I hate those SOBs.
Then they came for the Socialists and I said nothing, cause I hate those SOBs too.
They never came for me, we're on the same side. The End. ;^)

[wardaddy]

In agree...it's a bit disingeuous considering the preponderance of secular self hating Jews that have historically been at the forefront of discredited messianic political movements continuing to this day.

It's seems like the writer has just discovered the many good things Jews have contributed to western civilization and is sort of overwhelmed by his "discovery".

Fortunately, I think the rise in Jewish Conservatism has momentum and more than adequate motivation.

I fear though that the rise of apostate "Be Nice" Christians are going to supplant the old role of the Trotskys and Chomskys of the world and given their numbers will continue to be a scourge. That movement is gaining ground here and has infected most protestant denominations even here in Nashville...a relatively conservative area.

Btw...Judaism is a religion not a race. Being Jewish whether Ashkhenazim, Sephardic, Oriental, or other is more an identity based on religious practice or simply having been born of the "mother".

[Anamensis]

Well, I'm a godless capitalist but I agree with your assessment of Jewish Self Hatred. I'm even happy that Christians believe the rights come from a God because that means they'll fight for them. The usefulness of a God really (to me) stems from the fact that what this means in practice is: "You can't reason or wheedle me out of my belief that I have these rights. Sooner or later we get to the bedrock below which I will not go, and that's where the shooting starts if you don't back off."

[risk]

Muslims want to kill me. Christians just want me to marry the person I'm living with.

Yes! We have a small family squable about values and how they're enforced. But patriot Christians and patriot unbelievers in American mean each other and the Republic well. We can't say the same for the communist infiltrators and the jihadis.

First they came for the Communists, and I said nothing, because I hate those SOBs.

The thing with the Nazis was that they didn't believe in changing peoples' minds. They would just blow them out.

An American communist among us who simply thinks something with which I disagree, I'll tolerate (and even defend). There is no place for thought police in this great land. Besides, I think we have a good chance of changing his mind over time. Only if he takes any physical steps toward destroying our nation, or if he incites others to do so, would my sense of tolerance vanish.

[Anamensis]

Only if he takes any physical steps toward destroying our nation, or if he incites others to do so, would my sense of tolerance vanish.

That's where I am right now, because I've never known anyone with Marxist tendencies who didn't constantly work to subtly influence others to work to destroy our nation, either by voting for a constant reduction of our rights, or by encouraging racial divisions and ethnic Balkanization. I want these bustards gone. I'd settle for deporting them and never letting them back in.

[risk]

...that is why we are all here in the USA

Yes, I agree. We have earned our liberty by the bloody quart, too. Those in other lands who wait around for leaders to round them up and ship them off to the gulags for so much as thinking contrary thoughts resent and fear the freemen from America.

I'm thinking about all the equivocation I'm hearing from India these days. Shouldn't they be shoulder to shoulder with us, standing up for freedom-loving human beings, their fellow democratic citizens from another land? But NO. I wonder if they didn't have to fight as hard to free themselves from the Brits as we did, and that explains why they take it all for granted. I'm not saying they didn't have to suffer. I'm saying they didn't overthrow British rule at the zenith of Britannia's dominance of her colonies like we did.

Our origins have put a lot of the fight in our eyes.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

So, without Jews we are all animals lost in the modern world and unable to create civilization or technology?

I read it slightly different. When the enlightenment and industrial revolution came, it was necessitated by a tolerance that allowed Jews to become active in society. Because Jews had developed separately with a high level of they were in a good position to rise to prominence at that point.

The rejection of the Jews brings disaster, not because it rejects the Jews, but because it is an indicator of a way of thinking that is inimical to a thriving society. Treatment of Jews is a signal, not because of anything inherent to the Jews, but because it signals a shift in mindset.

Look at the nation of Israel. It is one of the most socialist countries on the planet. It's only technological innovations come in the area of defense.

And agriculture. Especially with regard to irrigation and dealing with harsh environments.

Imminent destruction does seem to sharpen the mind.

I'd say imminent destruction sharpens the mind along those lines that have to do with survival.

John Adams wrote: "I study war and politics in order to give my children an opportunity to study economics and commerce and that will enable their children to study music and art." Israel has never had the opportunity to get beyond that first sentence.

[risk]

I'd settle for deporting [communists] and never letting them back in.

I believe this is unconstitutional. For example, it isn't a crime to vote for something patriots believe is unamerican. In fact, our government can be changed totally through constitutional amendments -- as well it should be able to do.

It's not that we haven't deported communists that has led us to the point where they dominate our universities and corrupt us through the arts.

It's that we gave them tenure, bought their musical recordings, went to their movies, and elected them to office. I believe we must face the responsibility for our own mistakes. I see it turning around, and it's happening without any thought police. (I think the thought police are the soccer moms and PC types.)

This gives me the chance to point out that it's people on the right these days who are the strongest defenders of liberty. They stand up for the second amendment. They stand up for freedom of speech. They offer their children as soldiers. They lead us to fight our enemies.

We can have freedom in this country and honor the Constitution at the same time.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

I'm thinking about all the equivocation I'm hearing from India these days. Shouldn't they be shoulder to shoulder with us, standing up for freedom-loving human beings, their fellow democratic citizens from another land? But NO

The party ruling India is equivocating. I believe the main opposition party is more behind the U.S.

India has a big problem in that it has a significant Muslim population, some of which are in rebellion and much of which is on the verge of the same. They're also walking a knife edge with Pakistan, where they could fall into a nuclear abyss.

Their rulers are trying to hold everything together. I'm not sure they're ruling party is correct, but they believe that too strongly backing the U.S. could precipitate a worse civil war than there presently is. I'm not sure whether this is, at present, the right course for them. However, I strongly suspect that India will have stop equivocating before too long.

Interestingly, I've started to see the anti-Semites writing anti-Hindu hate that links Hinduism with Judaism and India with Israel. Likewise, I've been seeing the start of overtures between Hindu and Jewish groups. If more of the world starts seeing India as Hinjews that equivocation will have to stop all the sooner.

In any case, I'm willing to cut India a little slack right now. They could be the breakout country of the 21st century -- demographic predictions I've seen have India passing China in population shortly before 2050 -- and a major addition to the Anglosphere. But right now, it is a powder-keg over there.

[risk]

In any case, I'm willing to cut India a little slack right now.

Heh, I know I should be, too! But I feel like goading them into seeing what they're doing to us. We could use the moral support now. I don't think we need them strategically, but it wouldn't hurt.

I hope we don't get them after a bloody and/or irradiated war with Pakistan, or their own internal civil war. Whatever the case, I want them to see that their geopolitical interests would be served by joining with us. We're not colonists anymore, meaning the British anglos.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

We...bought their musical recordings

Problem is, outside of country music, there are damned few non-leftists recording music. Maybe there are some non-left-wingers among the Electric Celt/Acid Croft/Celtic Stone/AfroCelt sort of music I like, but they're keeping quiet about it.

[CharacterCounts]

Marxism is alive because it operates on a basis of fairness and at a juvenile level all of us want thing to be fair and just.

That may be the initial attraction. But, no one invloved in the movement beleives this to be true.

[wardaddy]

Treatment of Jews is a signal, not because of anything inherent to the Jews, but because it signals a shift in mindset.

That's very insightful but do you think that applies to strictly "Christian" nations or others.... Others meaning Islamic since I'm not aware of Jews gaining any footholds in any other nations outside of predominately Christian or Islamic are you? (Israel notwhithstanding) I think the best countries to study the rise and fall and rise and fall and so forth of Jewish minorites are Hungary, Russia, and Poland. It has been a rough ride in those nations and many Jews made the mistake of hitching their wagon to the wrong horse. Do you think it's coincidence that Jews have fared better in Anglo nations including of course here? I don't. I did not mention the modern Jewish experience in Muslim nations which has been disastrous recently with the exceptions of Turkey and Morroco...which are both shining examples of tolerance only in comparison to their tribal neighbors. Germany...that is a case study all by itself. Regards.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

Marxism is alive because it operates on a basis of fairness and at a juvenile level all of us want thing to be fair and just.

That may be the initial attraction. But, no one invloved in the movement beleives this to be true.

That was BeAllYouCanBe's comment.

[jocon307]

"Well, I'm a godless capitalist..."

Ok, Anamensis, here is my phrase that I like to use to resolve this particular dilemma - our Rights derive from God or Nature, which ever you prefer.

BTW, that sudden 9/11 realization that there are a bunch of people in the world who would really, really, really like to kill us were really something, weren't they? Complete strangers who don't even know you, or would cheerfully kill you even if they'd been your next door neighbor for 10 years. Unbelievable, yet true.

This is what the mainstream liberal commentators are missing, or ignoring, or hiding, the current bellicosity (who's next? Syria, N. Korea, Yemen - my current nominee) doesn't stem from Bush, or Rumsfeld, or any of them. It comes right from the heart of the American Public. We KNOW we haven't gotten all the terrorists yet, and we will not rest until we do.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

That's very insightful but do you think that applies to strictly "Christian" nations or others.... Others meaning Islamic since I'm not aware of Jews gaining any footholds in any other nations outside of predominately Christian or Islamic are you?

The ages when tolerant Muslims ruled Spain were generally considered a golden age for both Jews and Muslims. When more fanatical Muslims came to power in the mid-12th century and started persecuting non-Muslims (both Christians and Jews), Islam started losing its grip on Spain.

More recently, I believe there were thriving Jewish communities in Iran, until the fall of the Shah, and Iraq, until the rise of the Ba'athists. I'd have to check things in more detail for the rest of the Muslim world, but that much I'm at least vaguely familiar with.

There was a thriving Jewish community in China for several centuries, but they disappeared, mainly through assimilation, about a generation before Marco Polo showed up. There are still small Jewish communities in India that date back more than a thousand years.

And no... I don't think it's any coincidence that Jews have done well in the Anglo nations, as the Anglo nations have thrived. Again, though, I'm not sure how much that is anything divine, as much as the nature of the Anglo nations. They have thrived on trade and open markets. It's hard to have an open market, when certain groups of people are excluded from it.