Question About Firearm Selection for Home Defense (VANITY)

vanity | April 13, 2003 | Jim Noble

[Jim Noble]

I have been trying to select a home defense firearm. I have handled and fired .38 special, .357 Magnum, and .45 ACP handguns, and 12-gauge and 20-gauge shotguns, but I'm not (yet) an experienced shooter.

I also have small kids at home.

I like the shotgun option, but have 2 concerns. 1) Do I like it because blowing away bad guys with a shotgun looks cool in the movies? (i.e., is this as viable an option as a handgun). 2) Can a bad guy with a handgun kill me before he is in lethal range of my shotgun?

Thanks in advance to all the experienced shooters here.

[happydogdesign]

In a home defense situation, it would be difficult not to cause a lethal wound with a shotgun. I would recommend taking a certified NRA course in shooting safety and knowledge before buying anything, as you will learn a great deal about your legal responsibilities and ramifications of using lethal force. Gun geeks are like computer geeks and car geeks- they will cheerfully argue their favorite issues and points for hours, and like anything else, those that know the least often talk the most. Get some qualified instruction before you listen to the hype.
Here's a link to the U.S. Department of Justice Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness


http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm


Their conclusions

"Physiologically, no caliber or bullet is certain to incapacitate any individual unless the brain is hit. Psychologically, some individuals can be incapacitated by minor or small caliber wounds. Those individuals who are stimulated by fear, adrenaline, drugs, alcohol, and/or sheer will and survival determination may not be incapacitated even if mortally wounded.

The will to survive and to fight despite horrific damage to the body is commonplace on the battlefield, and on the street. Barring a hit to the brain, the only way to force incapacitation is to cause sufficient blood loss that the subject can no longer function, and that takes time. Even if the heart is instantly destroyed, there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support full and complete voluntary action for 10-15 seconds.

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet."

[algol]

One advantage of a shotgun is that just the sound of racking a round into the chamber is distinctive enough to scare off most people. There may also be advantages depending on the laws where you live regarding gun ownership and use of deadly force in defense of self/property. You can also vary the load (anything from birdshot to slugs) to give a bit more control over penetration, etc.

Disadvantages are that it's unwieldy indoors, especially if you have narrow corridors and the like. How easily can you turn around in a hallway with your weapon at the ready?

With kids in the house, aside from the obvious of keeping the weapon out of their reach, you might also want to think about penetration. Drywall doesn't slow down a heavy slug (pistol or large shotgun pellet) much, you don't want a stray round to go through a couple of walls and injure or kill a family member.

Lethal range isn't an issue. Unless you have an unusually large house, if you and the perp can see each other, you're within range of each other's weapons (the variable is how good a shooter you/he is.)

Outside, for example guarding your property against looters after a disaster of some kind, a shotgun (or other long gun) is a lot more visible from a distance and likely to keep the bad guys from even trying.

[Bobber58]

As I coaxed the halibut near the boat, Darrell raised the harpoon and drove it home with savage force. The halibut immediately sounded, now battling a mortal wound, the rope attached to the harpoon and my line. In a few seconds the big fish succumbed to the inevitable and again came into sight. This time Darrell stood ready with the Coup De Gras. A muffled blast from the stainless steel 410 shotgun ended a valiant battle. Together Darrell and Norm struggled to haul in more than 130 pounds of halibut.

That's what my Dad always carried in the motorhome...about 30" total length, next to the bed. not lethal except at very close range...single shot.

[snooker]

short barreled shotgun, like the Remington 870. Choose appropiate ammo. Light loads, birdshot for inside. You don't want to blow a hole in walls and hit someone in the next room. A good gun store should be able to steer you in the right direction with ammo. Walmart has good buys on 12 gauage shotguns. 12 gauge would be my choice.

Next would be a simple revolver with 4 inch barrel, 38 special. S&W chiefs special good choice.

Either gun can benefit from Tritium sights. Nightime is most likely time of trouble.

As you get experience then choose your own.

Practice until you can load, shoot and clear jams in the dark. knowing how to shoot is extremely important. Just watch those Iraqis shoot the moon and you will see why. A gun isn't any good if you can't use it correctly.

A good course on CCW will give you all the legal stuff you need for your state. Highly recommend CCW if your state offers it, even if you don't carry. Knowledge gained will be very valuable.

[TJFLSTRAT]

A careful investigation of the special situations that can be encountered in a home defense situation, makes any long gun, such as a shotgun a poor choice. Since the homeowner may have to navigate narrow passageways, as well as around furniture, the homeowner that uses any long gun risks having the intruder take control of the weapon due to the lenth of the barrel, allowing the intruder better chance to take control of the weapon. In low light situations an intruder can lay in wait, then wrestle the gun from the homeowner, especially if the homeowner is a woman. The best choice would be a snub nosed .357 magnum hand gun, since most intruder combat situations occuer in close quarters and within 7 feet, the intruder will be much less likely to releive the homeowner of his .357 snub nose, as opposed to any long barreled weapon.

[gortklattu]

Even a 20 guage will do the trick, but use bird shot. If you have 00 Buckshot a good attorney can make a case of it.

[x1stcav]

Safety with children about?

I know this isn't the ideal way to approach home defense, but I know I'm more comfortable with a weapon with a charged magazine rather than with the chamber charged. I'm not certain that the time required to chamber a round is always significant.

And I do it with a semi-auto pistol every night. Trusty AMT 1911A1 clone, a 'Hardballer' .45, with 10 round magazine inserted and ready to go.

[Mean Daddy]

Consider a Springfield XD40. Another Freeper recommended it to me because of all the safety features it has (modeled after the Colt 1911) and including an indicator to show you that a round is in the chamber. They run about $350-$475 and can be found at www.gunbroker.com.

[x1stcav]

Certainly a more elegant way of putting it.

[Shooter 2.5]

Interesting way to look at it. The velocity is about the same with the same caliber. The only thing missing is whether the round soft lead shot would open up as the same as a .357 mag bullet. I don't know what the weight of the shot is but I think he's correct or at least enough to sell anyone on the idea of the Shotgun/handgun aspect. My son and I started to destroy some junkyard stuff with a Bennelli and a Mossberg using buckshot and slugs and it really is a thing to watch. Awesome.

[Mulder]

I like the shotgun option, but have 2 concerns. 1) Do I like it because blowing away bad guys with a shotgun looks cool in the movies? (i.e., is this as viable an option as a handgun). 2) Can a bad guy with a handgun kill me before he is in lethal range of my shotgun?

Personally, I prefer a handgun for home defense, but that is simply because I've had more experience with handguns compared to shotgun.

The advantages of a handgun are size (easier to move around corners), operability with only one hand, and the ability to fire a lot of rounds quickly and reload quickly (assuming it's a semiauto).

If you go with a handgun, get some tritium night sites to go on the weapon (I recommend Trijicons-- $100) so you can see your sites in the dark. Also, get a tactial light like a Surefire E2E ($70) so you can identify your target in the dark. If you want, you can also get a weapon-mounted light ($150-$350).

For handgun caliber, I would choose either a 9mm, .40, .45, or 357 Sig. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. You should pick whichever one you shoot the best and are most comfortable with. Go with a reputable manufacturer such as SIG, Glock, H&K, or Springfield.

If you get a shotgun, I'd recommend a 12 guage tactical shotgun with an 18" or 20" barrel. It's also a good idea to get a light mounted on the gun, which can cost as much as the shotgun does. For loads, a lot of people prefer either 00 buckshot or #4 buckshot for home defense. A shotgun will give you some spread, but at close ranges you'll still need to aim the weapon.

Either route you go, expect to spend about $1000 to get setup.

[algol]

Unless you've got a very large house or very soundproof doors, odds are a burglar is going to hear either of those sounds (assuming a middle-of-the-night robbery). The shotgun is probably louder (can't say as I've done a comparison).

Storing a weapon with a round in the chamber isn't too bright.

Granted, I certainly wouldn't wait until I'm sure the burglar can hear me before chambering a round, I'll do that as soon as I pick up the weapon.

[joesnuffy]

12 Gauge with slugs and buckshot can be appropriate to home defense depending upon whether you own your own home live in an apartment/condo urban suburban or rural..
Self defense loads that travel throught walls injury bystanders your main worry...after nuetralizing the threat

Get a good light for your rig... Surefire imo

I recommend the Rem 870 for a pump I wouldnt overlook the Benelli autoloader which is also good choice...imo

For handgun...a Ruger GP100 or a S&W in 357 if you are going CCW the smith 38 special in the ultra light 442 with the short barrel and a HI Viz front sight

Nothing wrong with a number of autoloading handguns as long as you get all the training and practice you need to handle one safely and effectively...the same goes for revolvers...however imo revolvers learning curve is a little less steep...

Make sure you have a good light handy and above all whatever you get practice..one hit with 38 +P is worth 100 misses with a 45 or 9mm

Looking cool in the movies has nothing to do with anything...Robert Redford is a movie star..
So is Sean Penn in real life the idiot Penn just gave away two of his loaded pistols to the criminals who stole them from his car..

Yes a bad guy can kill you inside the range of your shotgun and you could him as well...

The shotgun with double OO is basically sending many 38 cal pellets downrage everytime the trigger is pulled...its the ultimate machine gun within its limits

You need lots of training and practice..safety needs to be a real issue for you as well as envisoning your intruder scenarios..

Also get a good dog if you can...the best early warning system...needs no batteries or power to work..

Keep a cell phone near your safe area..(the place you will retreat to...dont search the house for the bad guys make them come to you ..in the open with you protected and concealed if possible..

Home defense is an area with lots of opinions both good and bad...many better than mine..so dont be afraid to seek out quality advice..from many qualified sources..

The NRA is a good place to start

[Welsh Rabbit]

I'm no gun expert, but my uncle who is, advised me that a shotgun is the best option for someone who isn't adequately trained with handguns.

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

I would buy a 12 gauge semi-automatic shotgun with the shortest barrel possible for home defense. Semi-automatic shotguns have the advantage of less recoil over pump action. Be sure to get the shortest shotgun possible with a pistol grip included. The shorter the shotgun the better. I don't know the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearm laws on how short a shotgun can be.

[69ConvertibleFirebird]

opposed to any long barreled weapon.

This is why he recommended a sawed-off 12 guage shotgun.

[c-five]

Winchester Defender 20 gauge with #2 buck 3 inch shells is my choice. It's ideal for my street, with houses close together, and the wife can handle a 20 gauge. The barrel is minimum legal length, which is good for close quarters and has enough power to stop anybody at indoor range.

If there is a lefty in the house, consider an Ithaca model 37.

[CFC__VRWC]

I am partial to a Remington 870, 12 gauge, loaded with 00 Buckshot.

My problem with using 00 buck indoors is that any shot that miss will go right through drywall and still have plenty of energy left over to kill or seriously injure someone on the other side. You don't want to have to think about missing your target, but anything can happen when your life's on the line and the adrenaline is flowing.

I have a Mossberg 500A 12-gauge, with an 18-inch barrel and a ghost ring sight, and I keep it loaded with #4 shot. At indoor ranges, that's plenty enough punch so that anything I hit with it is, at best, going to seriously question the wisdom of continuing to threaten myself or my property.

[Mulder]

Storing a weapon with a round in the chamber isn't too bright.

If you don't keep a round chambered, it will cost you a couple of seconds and the use of your weak hand which may or may not present problems.