Israeli Military Amazed, "Jealous" At U.S. War Against Iraq

World Tribune.com ^ | 04/14/2003 | Special to World Tribune

[Dirk McQuickly]

TEL AVIV — Israeli defense officials and military commanders have expressed amazement over the capture of one of the largest and most powerful Arab countries by what they say amounted to fewer than three U.S. Army divisions.

The officials said the U.S. strategy of avoiding enemy troop concentrations as well as exploiting combat air supremacy comprises methods far more advanced than those employed by the Israeli military.

"This has been a very strange and unprecedented war and it will take us awhile to learn what took place," Yuval Steinetz, chairman of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, said. "We will have to learn from this war and draw the conclusions."

"I am jealous of them [U.S. military]," Maj. Gen. Dan Harel, head of the Israel military's C4 directorate, said. "They have advanced in areas that we were leading in only a few years ago. They have the ability to put everything together in command and control. Our navy and air force have systems. but we have to integrate them."

Officials and military commanders agreed that the U.S. war in Iraq overshadowed the 1967 Israeli victory over four Arab countries, including Iraq. They said the United States sustained about 100 casualties in three weeks of fighting that resulted in the capture of Baghdad and most Iraqi cities. In contrast, about 600 Israeli soldiers were killed in the six days of the 1967 war, most of them in the ground battle with Egypt in the Sinai Peninsula.

[IvanT]

The world will keep buying that Russian and Chinese junk. Countries like India would be wise to cozy up with us instead of buying that failed equipment.

I don't like the idea of the US selling any of their equipment to anyone that can't be trusted with it. You could potentially facing your own stuff in the battlefield. Let them buy the crap stuff.

[cynicom]

It also helps a great deal when the enemy is a cruel dictatorship of long standing.

[Blueflag]

What we don't know is how many of those "great anti-tank weapons" detonated against the M1-A1s to no effect. We heard reports of 'swarms' of anti-tank missiles that were at worst noisy and scary.

We do know that the two effective attacks were (a) from the rear at very close range and only disabled the power pack and did not penetrate the crew compartment, and (b) again from close range started a fire that eventually caused the crew to abandon the hull.

All in all, I'd say their kill ratio was lousy. Put me in an M1-A2 anyday. Especially when the tank troops are accompanied by mounted/dismounted infantry in Bradly(s) and CAS is available.

[John H K]

I thought the rackies got a hold of some great anti-tank missles. And I thought they had silkworms. Were they overhyped duds? Anyone? I think a silkworm did actually hit a mall in kuwait. US Navy not exactly scared.
Actually the shocking thing is that there are almost no reports of the Iraqis EVER using anything more sophisticated than RPGs. Other than that possible use of two KORNETs (which still must be considered unproven) I can't think of any other reports. Not even of Saggers (1973 Yom Kippur War era ATGM) which are still better than RPGs vs. tanks. The Iraqis had thousands of ATGMs which were better than RPGs. It's clear there was basically no resistance from anyone but Fedayeen.

[Blueflag]

Exactly. There was no eastern front, and little need to protect our right flankas we moved north, even though the Iraqis had divisions along the Iran border. They were the smart ones.

[Paraclete]

Last week on the Washington Report on CNBC they interviewed a fellow who gave insight into Rumsfeld's and other military leaders mindsets. I didn't get the name of the book he referred to, but the gist is responding so quickly that you get inside the enemies decision cycle, thus paralyzing them. It sounds like Rumsfeld and others really took the lesson to heart.

[proust]

Shock and Awe continues...

[George Smiley]

Key components of the strategy: pick a country that

1)is 20+ years behind you technologically
2)wants you to liberate them
3)has an army that will drop their guns at the first whiff of gunpowder

4)has no air defense capability beyond a few AAAs Meet those conditions, and execute your plan with complete excellence, and success will follow.

But what would we do after France surrendered?

[Blueflag]

re: EMP munitions

For civilian infrastructure, there is no practical countermeasure or defense. Think of it as the neutron bomb for electronics.

they do exist.

[eBelasco]

I heard the Frenchwomen are pretty nice.

[bert]

....we probably sealed lots of deals with Iraqi generals....

Iraq surrendered before the first day. The Generals and probably the colonels have watched us pick off every air defense installation that raised it's hand.

We have had folks in the country learning all about all the military leadership. There is probably a new Iraq defense force organizational chart and TOE in the plan. The material needed will be spared. the excess will be destroyed. The people are survivors and contributors to our effort.

Consider the unfolding of events..... The primary oil export terminal was invaded by seals and found to be wired, but the explosives and the terminal were intact. Mines were unlaid on several boatsthat surrendered. The main container port was intact. Thge oil fields were all wired but only a token number were fired. none were destroyed. The 51 division command surrendered immediately. On arriving in Nasireyah, a general escorted troops to a n intact fenced chemical facility of which we have heard nothing since it happened. On and on and on....... to win a war, assimilate the enemy commanders. Owning Generals is better than killing them.

[JaimeD2]

I'll admit that it's probably on the high end of the estimates, but it seems plausible to me. I suppose it'd be better to rephrase it as "an enormous number of South Koreans would die," because that's certainly a given.

[ApesForEvolution]

I believe the northcomm stew is a completely different kettle of fish heads. Artillery poised on Seoul seems to be one of two main heads that needs to be cut off immediately. The other would be missiles/nukes.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

I wonder if the same tactic of shock and awe would work on N. Korea?

Yes it would. If not there is an Ohio Class Boomer in the East China Sea and another in the Sea of Japan. Together they carry 388 nuclear warheads and that will shock and awe your socks off ..........

[jackbill]

I wonder if the same tactic of shock and awe would work on N. Korea?

Unfortunately, no. The instant that we make an aggressive move against N. Korea, they would unleash tens of thousands of artillery pieces which are in range of Seoul - a city of more than 11 million people.

Our Patriot missiles can knock down a missile, but nothing could stop the artillery. It would be Seoul that would be "shocked and awed".

Certainly, in the long run - nukes or not - we would prevail, but at the sacrifice of hundreds of thousands of South Koreans.

And that is probably the only thing that is holding us back.

[Constitution Day]

Off topic, but -

Good to see you, George. I haven't seen you post in a long time.

Regards,
CD

[laotzu]

"pretty darn good themselves"

My thoughts as well.

The Israeli military ability is always amazing.

[boknows]

he will be watching this on the History Channel when he is our age

Let's just hope Oliver Stone doesn't produce anything about this. Just imagine the spin it would have.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

Key components of the strategy: pick a country that 1)is 20+ years behind you technologically

Well in military terms, that's all of them .........

[SauronOfMordor]

North Korea has been in a perpetual state of military readiness for the past fifty years; its army is ready for immediate deployment, and would likely overrun Seoul and kill millions of South Koreans within days of the first sign of an invasion.

Within a year or two, after we've replenished our stocks of ammo and bombs, we'll have the capability to have stealthy Predator drones get the GPS coordinates of every artillery battery and missile crew in range of the DMZ some dark and moonless night. The war would start with a swarm of ALCMs and precision-guided bombs taking them out in the first hour.

The big question will be whether we will have a year or two before the next big thing