Protesters Have Right to Speak

County Press ^ | 4-16-03 | William W. Lawrence

[Temple Owl]

Second Thoughts

By: William W. Lawrence

04/15/2003

We hear so much about young Americans -- teenagers and early 20s -- who give Americans a bad name. Then we watch our young GIs and our chest swells with pride.

They were freeing an oppressed people while naked women, transvestites, dogs, dancers and singers joined Harry Belafonte in an antiwar protest to "praise the patriotism of the demonstrators" and condemn the military action in Iraq.

"We denounce governments that act with tyranny," Mr. Belafonte told the crowd. He was talking about our government, not Saddam Hussein's. Listen, there were always war protesters.

I was a youngster just before World War II while Jews were being pushed into Nazi gas chambers. Even back then, American hero Charles Lindbergh,a leading member of the America First Committee, was able to fill Madison Square Garden with war protesters.

I do not like Harry Belafonte, Susan Sarandon, Barbra Streisand, Ed Asner, Michael Moore and the rest of the Hollywood anti-American crowd. But they have a right to open their foul mouths and spew anti-American venom. Our young GIs are serving to insure that right.

Ohio Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich, a Democratic presidential candidate and an outspoken critic of President Bush's Iraq policy, has revived his proposal to create a U.S. Department of Peace. I am sure Kucinich would appoint Belafonte, Asner, Moore, Ms. Streisand and Ms. Sarandon to high posts within his creation.

***

[Temple Owl]

Let's put Harry Belafonte in a banana boat with naked women, transvestites, dogs and dancers.

[Temple Owl]

ping

[netmilsmom]

I can't get to the article....

[Oldeconomybuyer]

Wed Apr 16, 6:33 PM ET

Peace activist and 1976 Nobel Peace Laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire (C) protests the Iraq (news - web sites) war across the street from the White House in Washington, DC.(AFP/Gina Dogget)

[Jeff Head]

They do have a right to protest ... and they also have the right to suffer the consequences .

The public shunning and free market consequences if they keep it legal ... the legal consequences if they cross the line into illegality and sedition.

Here is the definition of sedition:

The U.S. Sedition Act

Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully promote the success of its enemies, or shall willfully incite insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the military or naval forces of the United States or advocate, teach, defend, or suggest the doing of any of the acts or things in this section enumerated and whoever shall by word or act support or favor the cause of any country with which the United States is at war or by word or act oppose the cause of the United States therein, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both.

U.S. Code : Title 18 : Section 2381

WINNING IRAQI FREEDOM.COM

[Blue Screen of Death]

While protesters do have a right to speak, they also have an obligation to think. I see many exercising the former and few the latter.

[Cicero]

Can you add on the rest of the article? Here's what I see when I click on the link. Either I'm not registered, or the hits are too much for the server:

"The requested page cannot be displayed.

"The page you are trying to view either was not found or the URL is incorrect."

[Bahbah]

Very well put.

[GulfWar1Vet]

Oh yea. They have a right to protest, but I have a right not to hear them. LoL

[SpinyNorman]

Hey!! Where has fat Ed Assner been lately? Sudden case of guilt or conscience? Naaahhhh, probably a drinking binge.

[Oldsailor]

I understand and agree that those wanting to express an opinion about their beliefs should have that right. Where my understanding gets fuzzy is why don't these folks give me and others the right to protest what they do, in any way I choose?

I choose to call them all idiots and uneducated, spoiled, overpaid,.......and on and on.

I also choose to never spend money that will find it's way to them..

Hey....that too is my right.

[trebb]

It's amazing how free speech is only free speech when being used by commie-pinko left-wingers. They can shout you down and try to squelch your voice and that's Ok, but disagree with them and you are not using free speech, you are violating their rights. Kinda makes you want to do some real violating, doesn't it???

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

That was the entire article. The rest is just other editorials.

[vollmond]

I do not like Harry Belafonte, Susan Sarandon, Barbra Streisand, Ed Asner, Michael Moore and the rest of the Hollywood anti-American crowd. But they have a right to open their foul mouths and spew anti-American venom. Our young GIs are serving to insure that right.

The sad thing is, there's not a one of these people who would serve for a young GI's right to do the same. That's why the backlash against them has begun. There's not a man or woman among them who would risk their lives to defend our rights, while we are willing and eager to do it for them.

Rest of message deleted to avoid profanity :).

[ohioman]

Yeah whatever. And we have the right to call these people naive, idiototic, traitorous, scum. It's best to use these terms for it illicits the best response and clearly shows these people are only for speech that agrees with their leftwing agenda.

[shhrubbery!]

Sure, they have the right to speak.

And we have the right to speak back to them.

[Gefreiter]

Just because we ALL, as Americans, have the right of free speech, it is not always the wisest choice to exercise it.

Shouldn't we think before we speak?

[Valin]

And I have the right(and duty) to call them what they are moral midgets. Someone who's moral develoment stopped at about age 6.

[Hila]

"And we have the right to speak back". What the protestors of war and anything decent and intelligent believe, is that those who are not with them should shut up. They believe in their infinite self-centeredness, that we have no voice, and that we don't have a mind of our own. The peacefools claim we are persuaded by the White House and conservative radio; in other words they think that we are sooo stupid that we have to be told what to think. I love the surprise that is being unwrapped for them. Just when the celebs thought all we were good for was to give them our money at the movie theater, they are rudely awakened. The fact is that we can all find entertainment in better places and let the unwise protestors know we are a different kind of human beings. We are the "We the people" that will stand for this land and our beliefs.

[Smedley]

While protesters do have a right to speak, they also have an obligation to think. I see many exercising the former and few the latter.

Good luck enforcing that thinking thing.

THese mealy-mouthed Holltwood types want to express their opinion, especially to criticize Bush, but they don't want people criticizing THEM. To recap:

Their criticism of Bush = free speech

Our criticism of them = oppression of free speech.

Sarandon, Gerafalo et al are a mindless pathetic bunch.

[Tribune7]

Here's the link

[Tribune7]

Here's the link

It's a good article.

[Zavien Doombringer]

The U.S. Sedition Act Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully promote the success of its enemies, or shall willfully incite insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the military or naval forces of the United States or advocate, teach, defend, or suggest the doing of any of the acts or things in this section enumerated and whoever shall by word or act support or favor the cause of any country with which the United States is at war or by word or act oppose the cause of the United States therein, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both. - not maybe but SHALL BE U.S. Code : Title 18 : Section 2381

But they have a right to open their foul mouths and spew anti-American venom. Our young GIs are serving to insure that right.

Obviously, they don't have that right! Prosecute the traitors!!!

[Wolverine]

They have the right to dissent, I have the right to hold them accountable...thru my nonpurchase of their products/services or entertainment access to my personal media receptors.

[Zavien Doombringer]

The Sedition Act
(May 16, 1918), law passed by Congress during World War I providing for punishment of persons who interfered with the war effort, spoke disloyally of the U.S. Constitution or federal government, or hindered the production of war materials. Eugene V. Debs, leader of the U.S. Socialist party, was imprisoned under this act. Congress repealed the law in 1921.

[Jeff Head]

Obviously the info I got was way out of date. Apparently Section 2381 was repealed and replaced with Treason and it reads pretty good as relates to some of this activity. All of Chapter 115 of Title 18 deals with this stuff.

But section 2388 deals with much of the sedition, and it reads as follows:

Sec. 2388. - Activities affecting armed forces during war

(a) Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully makes or conveys false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies; or

Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or willfully obstructs the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, to the injury of the service or the United States, or attempts to do so -

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

(b) If two or more persons conspire to violate subsection (a) of this section and one or more such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy shall be punished as provided in said subsection (a).

(c) Whoever harbors or conceals any person who he knows, or has reasonable grounds to believe or suspect, has committed, or is about to commit, an offense under this section, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

(d) This section shall apply within the admiralty and maritime jurisdiction of the United States, and on the high seas, as well as within the United States

So, words like De Genova used at Columbia, calling for ourt service people to carry out further acts like the Muslim Sgt. who fragged his onw in the 101st, would seem to be actionable under this current law.

Here is a link to the current law:

U.S. Code, Section 18, Chapter 115 - TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES

Thanks for getting me off my duff and further researching this.

[netmilsmom]

Thanks!

[Jeff Head]

Title 18, Section 2387 works too.

[Poohbah]

Title 18 Section 2381 is actually the statute regarding Treason, which I quote in full:

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

Your citation looks like the source threw two sections of Section 2388, "Activities affecting armed forces during war" into the blender with the ram (punitive section) from Section 2381.

[wjcsux]

When the left speaks out against us, it is "conscience", when we speak out against them, it is "hate speech".

[Zavien Doombringer]

You are welcome :)

Under this section, wouldn't "harm" have to be proven? On the other hand, Jane Fonda did cross that line in Viet Nam I was too young to remember any of that - but my dad served and he refuses to this day, watch any movies made by her. I was 14 when HBO finally came to our house. Barbarella came on, hokey movie to begin with, but my dad saw what we were watching, I don't have to tell you what happened next, but we got a new TV the next day...

[Jeff Head]

Zavien Doombringer already pinged and pointed this out to me, thanks. My source was an old 2381 ... way old and my bad for not following up before posting.

I corrected it in my last posts, with citation of Ttile 18, Chapter 115, and particularly sections 2388 and 2387 in my post number 26 and in post number 28.

Final point is this ... what De Genova and other protestors have been doing in this regard, calling for rebellion in the ranks and fragging, is disgusting, sickening and patently illegal. I wish some DA or someone would take them to task legally on it.

[Poohbah]

I wish some DA or someone would take them to task legally on it.

Notice where they do this--in the most liberal enclaves, where they will NEVER get prosecuted.

[Jeff Head]

willfully causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty

Under section 2388, by calling for our own personnel to "frag" their own officers, I believe that De Genova's and other's publically advocated words fall into this category.

[Lady Eileen]

Good point.

[Zavien Doombringer]

I believe that De Genova's and other's publically advocated words fall into this category.

Areed, but what to do about it. The liberal media would play it up like censorship!

[Jeff Head]

Yep, Columbia, San Fran, etc.

Still illegal. Perhaps Federal charges could be brought. I know that if someone advocated killing like this in any way that the liberals would term "hate speech" ... it would not matter where they lived or who supported them. All claims to 1st amendment free speech rights would vanish in the wind in such an instance.

It is unacceptable, disgusting, sickening, despicable and maddening that these maggots can utter the same against our service personnel and not be brought to task for it.

Would that we had public officials who would forget politics for a moment and show allegiance to those putting their lives on the line for real freedom of speech and go after these traitors.

Oh well, one can dream I suppose.

[Jeff Head]

Yep ... see my post 37. Would that we had a leader who would push right through that clamoring like Bush did in Iraq. I wish he (Bush) would take this bull by the horns and instruct Ashcroft to press it home like he did the Iraqi situation with the UN, the French, etc.

[Moonman62]

I was a youngster just before World War II while Jews were being pushed into Nazi gas chambers. Even back then, American hero Charles Lindbergh,a leading member of the America First Committee, was able to fill Madison Square Garden with war protesters.

There's a big difference with today's protesters who belong to the Blame America First Committee.

[Poohbah]

The next fun part will be getting a jury together.

Maybe the charges can be filed in upstate New York, and the Fresno/Modesto area. (I was in Lemoore, CA for a job last year, right before the primary--calling a candidate a "liberal" there was fightin' words!)

[weegee]

I was a youngster just before World War II while Jews were being pushed into Nazi gas chambers. Even back then, American hero Charles Lindbergh,a leading member of the America First Committee, was able to fill Madison Square Garden with war protesters.

I do not like Harry Belafonte, Susan Sarandon, Barbra Streisand, Ed Asner, Michael Moore and the rest of the Hollywood anti-American crowd. But they have a right to open their foul mouths and spew anti-American venom. Our young GIs are serving to insure that right.

I am unaware that Charles Lindbergh called the President of the United States a Nazi or totalitarian. I am unaware of Mr. Lindbergh holding up a banner saying that he supported our troops when they shot their own officers. I am unaware that Mr. Lindbergh shut down any streets for commerce, travel, or emergy vehicles. I am unaware that Mr. Lindbergh vandalized any banks or INS centers (or even coffee shops).

Yet, despite the civil nature of his protest of the war, he came down on the wrong side of the issue and his legacy still suffers for this today.

Now just why is it we are supposed to tolerate riots in our streets under the banner of "free speech"? And just why can't we boycott those who participated in the proSaddam rallies?

[weegee]

Also, did Charles Lindbergh continue to protest the war once we entered the battle or did he silence his opposition?

[weegee]

I would think that posing on an enemy anti-aircraft cannon would fit under "aid and comfort". Treason requires witnesses to the act. That photo would cover that, no?

[Zavien Doombringer]

I wasn't aware of Fonda's doings until my late teens and my Government Teacher told the class about her. I understood then what my dad felt. I too haven't watched any Fonda movies, Henry or Jane, not even Bridgett. Henry messed up by not giving her daughter a severe spanking, now the fonda generations have the spirit of disobedience. I mean look, Ted and her couldn't keep it going...I am 37 years old, married 18 years and with 4 kids...I am making the best out of it. She became a traitor in her own relationships.

[buffyt]

I never protested during the VN War either. I don't protest when we have troops in harm's way. And as it turns out, Bush was RIGHT and we had a BRILLIAN MILITARY STRATEGY!

GO W GO!

[Temple Owl]

Apparently the paper's computer crashed. I spoke to an editor there and he said to be patient and try again in a little while. Sorry.

[Temple Owl]

A person ata the paper apologized. He said theifr computer crashed and will be back up shortly. I'll try to keep an eye on it and report.

[Temple Owl]

Very well put.

[Mark17]

Protesters Have Right to Speak

And we have the right to ask them if they know where the sun don't shine.

[Temple Owl]

And just why can't we boycott those who participated in the proSaddam rallies?

We can and should. I will not go see any of their movies, listen to their songs or buy any products with they are associated. That goes for countries too. I want nothing to do with them. But let's not allow them to take away any of our freedoms. They have done too much of that already.