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Catholic Church asks Tom Daschle to stop calling himself a Catholic
Weekly Standard (via Matt Drudge) ^ | April 17, 2003 | SB00

Posted on 04/17/2003 9:36:31 AM PDT by SB00

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To: All

PIGS are starting to FLY

101 posted on 04/17/2003 10:54:03 AM PDT by goodnesswins (CNN...the MOST TRUSTED in News......by CRIMINALS!)
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To: Revolting cat!
Diane Feinstein's next!

Diane is Jewish ... maybe you are thinking of Nancy Pelosi, she claims to be a catholic

102 posted on 04/17/2003 10:54:10 AM PDT by Mo1 (I'm a monthly Donor .. You can be one too!)
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To: Torie
...suspect the bishop is getting beyond himself here, and that most Americans don't agree with his action, including Catholics.

With all due respect: WRONG!
103 posted on 04/17/2003 10:54:52 AM PDT by AdA$tra (Tagline maintenance in progress......)
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To: SB00
Tommorow, he will say he is really jewish.
104 posted on 04/17/2003 10:55:40 AM PDT by yonif
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To: JohnnyZ
As I said, if the bishop had merely said he does not consider Daschle Catholic, and that his claim that he is, is false, that would be OK with me. What is not OK is demanding that Daschle retract the claim. That is beyond his pay grade.
105 posted on 04/17/2003 10:55:52 AM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie
No. If you're skin is white, you can't call yourself an African American, and when you trade
off of your religious ethnicity to curry favor with the voters, then act 180 degrees from the beliefs associated with said religious belief that's wrong.


If you want to Legislate Secular, Run Secular.
106 posted on 04/17/2003 10:57:19 AM PDT by hobbes1 ( Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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To: SB00
Refreshing to see a Church disavowing a member because of his name instead of a member of a church disavowing the church because of it's name.
107 posted on 04/17/2003 10:57:49 AM PDT by Protagoras (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children)
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To: SoDak
He is in Sioux Falls today and the whole town is buzzing big time about this. Awesome!!!

Please give us more info.

108 posted on 04/17/2003 10:58:01 AM PDT by Digger
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To: plain talk
Taking communion in a state of sin is forbidden.

I guess you meant unrependent sin, didn't you? We are all in a state of sin.

I'm not sure where you are coming from.

Catholics conscious of unconfessed mortal sin are not to take communion. It was this "State of sin" that I refer to.

I would not, in general, say we are all in a state of sin. We are born that way, but we have the sacraments to alter this.

SD

109 posted on 04/17/2003 10:58:28 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Torie
A bishop has no right to tell a public personality to stop telling lies about his affiliation with the bishop's Church?

If someone started a Communist website and called it "Free Republic" would JimRob have no right to call them on their deception?

110 posted on 04/17/2003 10:58:36 AM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: SoDak
Another matter is the "punishment" is selective. Thousands of Catholics who are public figures need to be instructed to cease calling themselves Catholic per this standard. That won't happen, because it would backfire.
111 posted on 04/17/2003 10:58:41 AM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie
Thousands of Catholics who are public figures need to be instructed to cease calling themselves Catholic per this standard.

THAT is correct.

112 posted on 04/17/2003 10:59:32 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: Torie
Well, I guess this Bishop has thrown down the gauntlet...
113 posted on 04/17/2003 11:00:30 AM PDT by goodnesswins (CNN...the MOST TRUSTED in News......by CRIMINALS!)
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To: Torie
Oh, I forgot.

You believe it's a good thing to murder small children.

You already knew that your objections to the bishop's statements are absurd, you're just protesting his statements because he objects to the coldblooded murder of babies.

I read you loud and clear.

114 posted on 04/17/2003 11:00:43 AM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: Torie
It is starting to happen......and Rightfully so.
115 posted on 04/17/2003 11:00:46 AM PDT by hobbes1 ( Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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To: JohnnyZ
go find a religion he agrees with

Roman Catholicism is a denomination of a religion. Christianity is the religion.

116 posted on 04/17/2003 11:00:51 AM PDT by Protagoras (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children)
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To: Torie
I was referring to the principal involved, thank you.

The principal is the same - morally and legally.

And in any event, the bishop knows ha cannot actually stop Daschle from saying whatever he wants. For you to suggest the bishop is even pretending to hold any sway LEGAL sway over Daschle illustrates that you don't quite understand the significance of what the bishop is doing. He is forcing Daschle to come clean. Thats all. He can no onger claim he is in any way Catholic without appearing an utter fool - as well as disrespectful toward the bishop he claims as his own.

The bishop is just making it known that the Church considers his behavior as blatantly wrong - so much so that the Church will single him out by name as one who is not Catholic, in fact.

This is highly unusual and does not even come near any civil law or constitutional law - other than to reiterate that the government cannot tell a Church how to conduct its internal affairs - which means the bishop can demand whatever he wants of Daschle (even if he can't force him to comply).

117 posted on 04/17/2003 11:01:07 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: mtbopfuyn
I'm disappointed that Daschle has failed miserably at practicing his religion.
118 posted on 04/17/2003 11:01:38 AM PDT by alnick
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To: alnick
LOL....actually, Daschle will probably say "I'm disappointed that the Bishop has failed miserably at my practicing of his religion."
119 posted on 04/17/2003 11:02:29 AM PDT by goodnesswins (CNN...the MOST TRUSTED in News......by CRIMINALS!)
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To: Torie
It is another for him to demand that Daschle comport his speech to the bishop's views. That strikes me as well, un-American. I suspect the bishop is getting beyond himself here, and that most Americans don't agree with his action, including Catholics.

It's not the views of the Bishop .. it's the views of the Catholic Church and if Tommy doesn't like the rules he is free to go find another religion

There are many catholics that have never understood why the likes of Dashole, Pelosi, and the Kennedy's haven't been kicked out long ago

120 posted on 04/17/2003 11:03:08 AM PDT by Mo1 (I'm a monthly Donor .. You can be one too!)
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To: Torie
As I said, if the bishop had merely said he does not consider Daschle Catholic, and that his claim that he is, is false, that would be OK with me. What is not OK is demanding that Daschle retract the claim. That is beyond his pay grade.

Perhaps you don't understand. The Senator is not the arbiter of who is and is not a Catholic in good standing in Sioux Falls.

The local bishop is. It is exactly his "pay grade" to make this determination.

And, if the Senator is serious about his faith, then he should listen to his bishop.

In matters of civil gov't, the Senator outranks the bishop. In matters of faith, the bishop outranks the senator.,

SD

121 posted on 04/17/2003 11:03:25 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: CFIIIMEIATP737
"I support the troops, but I will criticize the commander-in-chief during a time of war?"

this hypocrasy is so ludicrous, I mean the Commander IS the top troop!

122 posted on 04/17/2003 11:04:57 AM PDT by votelife (FREE MIGUEL ESTRADA!)
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To: wideawake
Christ forgave us for our sins but did not "remove" all sins. We all live in a state of sin while on this earth. For purposes of salvation, He forgave the sin as if it were removed but for purposes of judgment the sin hasn't been removed and we will all be held to account.
123 posted on 04/17/2003 11:05:01 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: Protagoras
Roman Catholicism is a denomination of a religion. Christianity is the religion.

Not quite. There are two only kinds of Christians: Catholics and ex-Catholics. Catholicism isn't a denomination. It is Christ's church from which all Protetestant relegions were created.
124 posted on 04/17/2003 11:05:51 AM PDT by AdA$tra (Tagline maintenance in progress......)
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To: Torie
As I said, if the bishop had merely said he does not consider Daschle Catholic, and that his claim that he is, is false, that would be OK with me. What is not OK is demanding that Daschle retract the claim. That is beyond his pay grade.

Ah, his pay grade. Who, then, can tell Daschle to stop calling himself Catholic if not his bishop????

Apparently you think that Tom Daschle and the Catholic Church have an equal claim on saying what is Catholic and what isn't!!!

This is really a bizarre argument, worthy of Church-bashers like Gary Wills and NARAL.

125 posted on 04/17/2003 11:06:48 AM PDT by JohnnyZ (okay, so that's not the best picture in the world but who am I, Holbein??)
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To: SoDak; EternalVigilance
WOW! The ultimate cut. They are accusing TD of hypocrisy.
126 posted on 04/17/2003 11:07:39 AM PDT by floriduh voter (President Backbone in 2004... You can help!)
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To: plain talk
He forgave the sin as if it were removed but for purposes of judgment the sin hasn't been removed

Sounds remarkably schizophrenic for someone calling Himself God.

No thanks, I'll stick with the correct, Catholic understanding of True Forgiveness of sins.

127 posted on 04/17/2003 11:07:49 AM PDT by Polycarp
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To: SoothingDave
I would not, in general, say we are all in a state of sin. We are born that way, but we have the sacraments to alter this

Thanks for the clarification. LOL!
128 posted on 04/17/2003 11:08:05 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: Torie
Bishop Carlson isn't the head of their respective diocese. He is, however, head of the diocese that Daschle belongs to, and therefore has the power and authority to do exactly what he did. It's not a constitutional right to belong to the diocese, any more than it's a right to be openly gay and belong to the boy scout organization.
129 posted on 04/17/2003 11:08:36 AM PDT by SoDak
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To: SB00
The directive from Sioux Falls' Bishop Robert Carlson is rather something less than excommunication...

Just curious, did the Democratic Bishops in South Dakota vote as a bloc against excommunication or did they fillibuster to prevent this from coming to a vote?

In a related story, John Kerry announced today that he would only nominate persons excommunicated by a church or synagogue to fill vacancies on the Supreme Court.

130 posted on 04/17/2003 11:09:08 AM PDT by William Wallace (Everyone has a purpose: Michael Moore and Ed Asner could feed a starving village.)
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To: Torie
Er what are the consequences?
"[A] declaration that Tom Daschle's religious identification constitutes, in technical Catholic vocabulary, a grave public scandal."

What is not OK is demanding that Daschle retract the claim. That is beyond his pay grade.
It is exactly his bishop's pay grade to say what is Catholic and what is not. In fact, it would be a deriliction of his episcopal duty if he were not to address the "grave public scandal" caused by Daschle's implying that one can be Catholic and support a pro-abortion agenda.
131 posted on 04/17/2003 11:09:10 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: BOBTHENAILER; Grampa Dave
Check out #3. Viva la france.
132 posted on 04/17/2003 11:09:30 AM PDT by floriduh voter (President Backbone in 2004... You can help!)
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To: JohnnyZ
Yeah, somebody please ping the rest of the Catholic hater crowd.

Bottom line: The Bishop is 100% right and more bishops need to follow suit. Now!
133 posted on 04/17/2003 11:09:31 AM PDT by AdA$tra (Tagline maintenance in progress......)
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To: Digger
I expect some local opinion to be posted to one or more of the local media sources, and I will post it when applicable.
134 posted on 04/17/2003 11:10:08 AM PDT by SoDak
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To: William Wallace
In a related story, John Kerry announced today that he would only nominate persons excommunicated by a church or synagogue to fill vacancies on the Supreme Court.

The Senator noted that his standard was not, however, a litmus test, although he acknowledge some may call it that.

135 posted on 04/17/2003 11:11:51 AM PDT by JohnnyZ (okay, so that's not the best picture in the world but who am I, Holbein??)
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To: wideawake
Every comment of yours is a bull's eye!
136 posted on 04/17/2003 11:12:12 AM PDT by onyx
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To: floriduh voter
If we could document that Da$$hole is basically French in his genealogy, that might defeat him in 2004.
137 posted on 04/17/2003 11:12:21 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Being a Monthly Donor to Free Republic is the Right Thing to do!)
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To: AdA$tra
This story keeps making me think of our new governor for some reason. (hehehe)
138 posted on 04/17/2003 11:14:01 AM PDT by RAT Patrol (Congress can give one American a dollar only by first taking it away from another American. -W.W.)
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To: AdA$tra
Catholicism isn't a denomination.

Nonsense. Whatever you have to say about the roots of other denominations makes no difference to the truth that Christianity is a religion, and all who follow it are Christians. Those who organize themselves into different groups to practice it are organised into what are called denominations. Notwithstanding people of some denominations who think God has a pecking order for belivers.

Jesus wasn't a Christian, he was a Jew. He sure wasn't Catholic or a Presbyterian or a Baptist.

139 posted on 04/17/2003 11:14:11 AM PDT by Protagoras (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children)
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To: SB00; Admin Moderator
1. Please correct the headline. Correct one is "Tom Daschle's Duty to Be Morally Coherent"

2. This is huge news and should be under "breaking". This will severely hurt him and it also shows a trend that is growing (Catholic Church outing its CINO politicians).

140 posted on 04/17/2003 11:14:11 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: Digger
John Thune and FV were both born in Sioux Falls; maybe in the same hospital. lol

I guess this Bishop may be a Thune and Dubya fan. TD's base is starting to crumble and what is at issue here? Family Values.

I recommend www.rapidcityjournal.com (western SD) for SD news in addition to the argusleader which is Eastern SD. The middle of the state is Pierre (I have no info on their newspaper). FV

141 posted on 04/17/2003 11:15:16 AM PDT by floriduh voter (President Backbone in 2004... You can help!)
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To: plain talk
To forgive is to remove.

Sins are offenses against God. When God forgives sins by His grace, they are removed.

"Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow"

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

And so he does.

There is nothing in the Scripture that says that Christ pretended to remove sins, but really kept them there anyway.

As St. Paul says "If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins."

But in point of fact, Christ is risen, our faith is not futile and we are no longer in our sins.

142 posted on 04/17/2003 11:17:45 AM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: Protagoras
Those who organize themselves into different groups to practice it are organised into what are called denominations.
Peter and the Twelve did not self-organize the basic structure of the Church. Christ Jesus did.
143 posted on 04/17/2003 11:19:10 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: Notwithstanding; Admin Moderator
This is huge news and should be under "breaking". This will severely hurt him and it also shows a trend that is growing (Catholic Church outing its CINO politicians).

DITTOS!!!

It is impossible to overestimate the importance of this development in political conservatism. THIS IS MAJOR BREAKING NEWS!

144 posted on 04/17/2003 11:19:11 AM PDT by Polycarp
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To: SoDak
Kewl, re: what you said. I miss Sioux Falls. My mom went to Washington High which I believe is a performing arts hall now. I think Thune can win but he has to run a smarter campaign than vs. Johnson. Being prepared for dirty tricks has to be part of any campaign strategy. Then again, in Florida, we're spoiled by landslides. That's what it takes. Sweep the state!
145 posted on 04/17/2003 11:21:09 AM PDT by floriduh voter (President Backbone in 2004... You can help!)
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To: Jim Robinson; Admin Moderator
please fix title and add to breaking news

this is HUGE NEWS and is breaking hard for many Catholic pols

it will have a huge impact on the next federal elections
146 posted on 04/17/2003 11:21:27 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: Polycarp
Our Archbishop James Keleher^ did something similar to our newly elected Governor. Here is the article^ in which he denies her the use of her Parish Church (Across from the Kansas Statehoue) for an "interfaith" service in realation to her innauguration because of her support of abortion. If I can find it, I will post an open letter from our former Archbisop Ignatius Strecker to democrat Catholics regards to abortions well.
147 posted on 04/17/2003 11:22:16 AM PDT by AdA$tra (Tagline maintenance in progress......)
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To: Notwithstanding
The headline is the subheadline.
148 posted on 04/17/2003 11:23:16 AM PDT by Torie
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To: eastsider
Peter and the Twelve did not self-organize the basic structure of the Church.

Thanks

Christ Jesus did.

Cite the scripture which shows this please.
And then explain what it has to do with my statement.

149 posted on 04/17/2003 11:23:17 AM PDT by Protagoras (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children)
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To: floriduh voter
Check out #3. Viva la france.

AAAHHH, Now we Know.

150 posted on 04/17/2003 11:23:27 AM PDT by BOBTHENAILER (Just like Black September. One by one, we're gonna get 'em.)
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