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Catholic Church asks Tom Daschle to stop calling himself a Catholic
Weekly Standard (via Matt Drudge) ^ | April 17, 2003 | SB00

Posted on 04/17/2003 9:36:31 AM PDT by SB00

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To: floriduh voter
I went to see Dwight Yoakum last night in the Great Hall at Washington Pavillion (HS). It's a beautiful hall and museum.
151 posted on 04/17/2003 11:23:47 AM PDT by SoDak
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To: Polycarp
Yes, Christianity is not simplistic nor does it necessarily follow our logic. That's why we believe it is truly from the Lord! It's not my intention to debate this to death since none of us totally understands these mysteries anyway. But there are many passages that speak to sin being forgiven but not totally forgotten. That's what I was referring to. Peace.

Rev. 20:12: "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. "
152 posted on 04/17/2003 11:24:34 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: Torie
Thank you for confirming that the headline is not correct.
Anyone searching for the actual headline will not find the article.
153 posted on 04/17/2003 11:25:05 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: Polycarp
Great idea Brian....sure wish you would add some protestants to that prayer list..
154 posted on 04/17/2003 11:25:44 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Protagoras
Those who organize themselves into different groups to practice it are organised into what are called denominations.

To denominate is to select a name to differentiate yourself from the existing. The Catholic Church has always existed. Other sects have broken away from the Mother Church, having to denominate themselves for distinction.

If there is one river it needs no name. Only when a branch shoots off is there a need to name the offshoot. The original river is still nameless.

SD

155 posted on 04/17/2003 11:25:45 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: AdA$tra
Thanks. I'm on the STOP GRANHOLM CHURCH AND TRUTH PROJECT email list, and our group helped with the Granholm situation behind the scenes too.
156 posted on 04/17/2003 11:26:22 AM PDT by Polycarp
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To: Protagoras
In the Gospel of Matthew we read:

Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He began asking His disciples, saying, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets." He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it." —Matthew 16:13-18
157 posted on 04/17/2003 11:28:51 AM PDT by An Old Man (USMC 1956 1960)
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To: SoDak
It's freedom of association.

Is that still allowed in this country?

158 posted on 04/17/2003 11:29:07 AM PDT by gridlock (CNN (spitting sound), you're dead to me!)
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To: plain talk
The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books

Careful, some have used this to justify their false teachings of salvation by works ;-)

159 posted on 04/17/2003 11:29:09 AM PDT by Polycarp
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To: SB00
If tiny tom were a Republican, we know what the three stooges (peetah, blather and brokerjaw) would use to lead the evening news.
160 posted on 04/17/2003 11:31:00 AM PDT by mombonn
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To: Torie
Another matter is the "punishment" is selective. Thousands of Catholics who are public figures need to be instructed to cease calling themselves Catholic per this standard. That won't happen, because it would backfire.

Bishop Carlson is responsible for Catholics in the eastern half of South Dakota. Daschle is by far the most prominent pro-abort "Catholic" in his jurisdiction. By telling him to stop calling himself a Catholic, Bishop Carlson is doing both the people of his diocese and Sen. Daschle himself a great service. My only complaint is that it should have been done maybe 15 years ago.

What happens in other jurisdictions is the responsibility of bishops in those places.

161 posted on 04/17/2003 11:31:03 AM PDT by Campion
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To: gridlock
largely, no
162 posted on 04/17/2003 11:31:05 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: floriduh voter
WOW, of all days to have this come out regarding Daschle. This evening is one of the most profound of all Mass's.
163 posted on 04/17/2003 11:31:48 AM PDT by mware
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To: Grit
Yeah -- and a new CD:

We hear that other members of this "group" will soon be releasing CDs of some of THEIR favs. In the meantime, enjoy these ditties from their lead sinner SINGER (yeah, "singer," that's the ticket)!


164 posted on 04/17/2003 11:33:06 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: Protagoras
I don't play the proof-text game, friend. Christ Jesus instituted His "Church," not a "religion." Both the Church and her structure are divinely instituted. And like Christ Jesus, the Church is one, not demonitional.
165 posted on 04/17/2003 11:34:27 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: BOBTHENAILER
You were seeking a way to get the french tied to SD. Now what does Daschle mean in French? It must be French. This all makes sense because he's always so les miserable.
166 posted on 04/17/2003 11:34:38 AM PDT by floriduh voter (President Backbone in 2004... You can help!)
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To: An Old Man
Thanks, I know that verse well, but what does it have to do with what I said?
167 posted on 04/17/2003 11:35:43 AM PDT by Protagoras (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children)
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To: Protagoras
Whatever you have to say about the roots of other denominations makes no difference to the truth that Christianity is a religion, and all who follow it are Christians. Those who organize themselves into different groups to practice it are organised into what are called denominations.

"Religion" can be used in the sense of Catholic vs. Baptist (usually referred to as "war" (j/k)) or as Christian vs. Jewish.

Religion: A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship (dictionary.com)

Denomination could be used to describe Catholicism as a Christian church, but it is typically used in the sense of: Catholics vs. various Protestant denominations, and as such has the connotation of Protestantism. I'm not even sure evangelicals, who do not consider themselves Protestants, would refer to their 'denomination', but that may be because many don't have a denomination or are not wide-spread enough to be considered as "A large group of religious congregations". Whatever the reason, the term is typically applied to mainline Protestant churches.

The Catholic Church has been using the same Creed for over a thousand years; it's pretty silly to claim that the Protestant denominations have an equal claim on Church history, since at the time they split off from the standard structure and belief all Christians had been professing the same faith for several hundred years that later became known as Catholic, even if you dismiss the belief in Peter's role as the first Pope.

168 posted on 04/17/2003 11:35:49 AM PDT by JohnnyZ (okay, so that's not the best picture in the world but who am I, Holbein??)
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To: eastsider
"demonitional" should read "denominational." : )
169 posted on 04/17/2003 11:35:56 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: mware
The timing on this was pretty interesting.

I'm impressed. Let's see what kind of courage the other bishops have.
170 posted on 04/17/2003 11:36:48 AM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: eastsider
not demonitional.

Good, Jesus cast out the demons.

171 posted on 04/17/2003 11:36:49 AM PDT by Protagoras (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Paging Tariq Aziz you have a call from the Pope
172 posted on 04/17/2003 11:36:53 AM PDT by JIM O
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To: eastsider
"demonitional" should read "denominational." : )

I knew that, but the target was too big to resist. Temptation is a bad thing. :-)

173 posted on 04/17/2003 11:37:58 AM PDT by Protagoras (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children)
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To: floriduh voter
Now what does Daschle mean in French? It must be French. This all makes sense because he's always so les miserable.

Daschle: a french derivative word meaning to dash, destroy, break asunder, obstruct, run in the face of danger, etc., etc.

174 posted on 04/17/2003 11:38:10 AM PDT by BOBTHENAILER (Just like Black September. One by one, we're gonna get 'em.)
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To: Protagoras
I thought your ribbing was apt.
175 posted on 04/17/2003 11:40:14 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: SB00
This is very encouraging indeed. Now let's see the Catholic church move on to the myriad of other pro-abortion, pro-homosexual politicians.
176 posted on 04/17/2003 11:40:40 AM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: JIM O
I wonder if the pope met with Aziz as a head of state (and as such did not discuss personal moral issues) or as universal pastor fo the Church (discussion of personal moral issues appropriate).

I bet it was the former.
177 posted on 04/17/2003 11:41:14 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: All
I have no love for Tom Daschle. But, the catholic church thinking Tom Daschle on it's roles is what constitutes a scandal...
178 posted on 04/17/2003 11:41:44 AM PDT by Roughneck (Get the U.N. out of the U.S, and get the U.S. out of the U.N.)
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To: JohnnyZ
I didn't dismiss anything. Unlike a great many Catholics who dismiss anyone who didn't toe the then current company line.

So called "protestants" sought a return to the church, not a new deal.

179 posted on 04/17/2003 11:42:01 AM PDT by Protagoras (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children)
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To: Grit
Does Teddy K. get a pass?

All the Kennedys get a pass, including one that entitles them to make their children illegitimate by forced annullment of their marriage.

180 posted on 04/17/2003 11:43:05 AM PDT by js1138
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To: wideawake
"To forgive is to remove." Sort of. I guess my bible studies on this have consistently taught me that sin has not been completely "removed" as you state, but that it's as if the sin has been removed. There's a huge difference in these two interpretations. We constantly sin every day and we pray for forgiveness even though the forgiveness has already been given. If we did not live in a state of sin there would be no need to pray for forgiveness would there? So the sin is still there to a Holy God although he does not see it as He just sees Christ who is our redeemer and savior. No human has lived on this planet without sin except for Christ. Romans 3:10: "As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;..."" I guess I am thinking past salvation and the fact that we will all be held accountable for our actions. This gets to the doctrine of sanctification.
181 posted on 04/17/2003 11:43:08 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: wideawake
Grow up and do some reading.

Is denying the Spanish Inquisition similar to denying the Holocaust??

You are in good company, wideawake!

182 posted on 04/17/2003 11:43:20 AM PDT by Onelifetogive
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To: eastsider
I thought your ribbing was apt.

It's all about ribbing, we all (Christians) have more in common than that which separates us.

183 posted on 04/17/2003 11:43:48 AM PDT by Protagoras (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children)
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To: Polycarp
Here^ (pdf) is another article about the Governor of Kansas and Catholic issues.

I cant find the link to the Strecker letter itself but here is the exact quote and source:
"Rep. Kathleen Sebelius of Topeka lead the death-march of the unborn to the aboution clinics in the house of represenatives. She was attempting to make the 'Death-Marches' to the abortion clinics as legal as the death-marches to the gas chambers of the World War II Holocaust." Archbishop Ignatius Strecker - Archdiocese of Kansas City - from "The Silent & Suffering Church in Kansas", The Leaven. P.3 3-27-92
184 posted on 04/17/2003 11:46:16 AM PDT by AdA$tra (Tagline maintenance in progress......)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Makes one almost proud to be a Presbyterian, not really.
185 posted on 04/17/2003 11:47:26 AM PDT by BooBoo1000
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To: SB00
The Internantional Brotherhood of Tiny People asks Tom Daschle to stop calling himself a leader.

They also accused him of wearing lifts in his shoes.
186 posted on 04/17/2003 11:49:08 AM PDT by finnman69 (!)
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To: SB00; 4ConservativeJustices; .45MAN; ABG(anybody but Gore); acnielsen guy; aeronca; Angelwood; ...
TOM DASCHLE may no longer call himself a Catholic. The Senate minority leader and the highest ranking Democrat in Washington has been sent a letter by his home diocese of Sioux Falls, sources in South Dakota have told The Weekly Standard, directing him to remove from his congressional biography and campaign documents all references to his standing as a member of the Catholic Church.

I sincerely apologize if, on this long thread, I overlooked your name and you got pinged.....but I felt this was quite important. It is highly unusual, IMHO, for a church to ask that a member not identify him/herself with that church....highly unsual.

-------------------------------------------------------------

DASCHOLE PING!

(Please Freepmail me if you want on/off my Daschle ping.)

187 posted on 04/17/2003 11:50:51 AM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: BooBoo1000
Makes one almost proud to be a Presbyterian, not really.

I was born and raised Presbyterian. It was a decent preparation for my coming home to the Catholic Church.
188 posted on 04/17/2003 11:51:30 AM PDT by AdA$tra (Tagline maintenance in progress......)
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To: Polycarp
Yes, faith and works and their complicated relationship. Faith should drive good works or maybe the faith is not there, right? That's what strengthens my faith and convinces me this gospel is not of this world. It is virtually impossible for my small mind to balance all of these doctrines. sin and righteousness, salvation and judgment, works and faith. If one homes on portions of the doctrine while not keeping it in context with the others, one distorts the gospel. I frankly struggle with this.
189 posted on 04/17/2003 11:51:38 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: Onelifetogive; TopQuark
Is denying the Spanish Inquisition similar to denying the Holocaust??

Who denied the Spanish Inquisition?

There were also anti-Jewish pogroms in the Rhineland in the 800s, in England in the 1100s and smaller ones in Southern France at various times during the age of Catholic Europe.

However, localized outbreaks of hostility and violence over a period of more than a thousand years do not sum up a Church or a culture.

The vast majority of the world's Jews lived in Catholic Europe because they knew that such incidents were aberrations from the norm and that they were much safer in a Catholic environment than they were in an Islamic or pagan one.

Your attempt to paint me with an anti-Semitic brush is duly noted, however.

The tactics you use to hide your shortcomings in logic and history are beneath contempt.

190 posted on 04/17/2003 11:51:51 AM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: SB00
!
HAH-hahahhahahahahahahaha!!!
191 posted on 04/17/2003 11:53:27 AM PDT by demosthenes the elder (If *I* can afford $5/month to support FR: SO CAN YOU)
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To: js1138
All the Kennedys get a pass, including one that entitles them to make their children illegitimate by forced annullment of their marriage.

An act of nullity does nothing to make children "illegitimate."

SD

192 posted on 04/17/2003 11:54:17 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: plain talk
By confessing our sins and committing ourselves to the Lord's grace, he wipes away our sins.

In order to do this we have to take up our cross and follow him every day - sometimes we stumble through our weakness and slide back into sin, sometimes his strength keeps us from falling and we remain in his grace.

He is always there and present to guide us. Sanctification is a process.

193 posted on 04/17/2003 11:55:13 AM PDT by wideawake (Support our troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: SoothingDave
Perhaps not in the eyes of the law, but what else is the point of saying a marriage never existed -- particularly when the request is made against the will of one of the partners, and by a POS Kennedy who just wants to get laid by another woman?
194 posted on 04/17/2003 11:57:46 AM PDT by js1138
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To: Protagoras
So called "protestants" sought a return to the church, not a new deal.

"The successors to Peter aren't the successors to Peter, we are the real successors to Paul?"

I don't see how that means people can't call Catholicism a religion and must refer to it as a denomination, which was your "point" in the first place.

195 posted on 04/17/2003 11:58:12 AM PDT by JohnnyZ (okay, so that's not the best picture in the world but who am I, Holbein??)
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To: SB00
Ooh, how sweeeet it isss!
196 posted on 04/17/2003 11:59:26 AM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD is still in control!)
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To: RAT Patrol
This story keeps making me think of our new governor for some reason. (hehehe)

I really like the ring of that Strecker quote:
"Rep. Kathleen Sebelius of Topeka lead the death-march of the unborn to the aboution clinics in the house of represenatives. She was attempting to make the 'Death-Marches' to the abortion clinics as legal as the death-marches to the gas chambers of the World War II Holocaust." Archbishop Ignatius Strecker - Archdiocese of Kansas City

Sorry...just wanted to hear that again.

I posted some other Sebelius stuff on here today 'cause it struck me the same way
197 posted on 04/17/2003 12:00:07 PM PDT by AdA$tra (Tagline maintenance in progress......)
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To: BooBoo1000
Makes one almost proud to be a Presbyterian, not really.

It will be a good thing again someday. As soon as the non-Christians currently at the top are removed. It's one of the nice things about not having a top down church polity, these creeps are an embarassment, but they don't make a big difference at the congregational level.

198 posted on 04/17/2003 12:00:07 PM PDT by Protagoras (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children)
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Forget excommunication for this putz. How about an exorcism?

When is his term up?
199 posted on 04/17/2003 12:01:05 PM PDT by lorrainer (Oh, was I ranting? Sorry.....)
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To: CFIIIMEIATP737
Maybe his little but(t) will be thrown out next election???
200 posted on 04/17/2003 12:01:33 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD is still in control!)
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