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10 years later, memories of Waco tragedy linger - fatal Branch Davidian standoff
Associated Press ^ | April 17, 2003 | Associated Press Staff

Posted on 04/17/2003 10:28:27 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP

10 years later, memories of Waco tragedy linger

City hopes to put fatal Branch Davidian standoff behind it

04/17/2003

Associated Press

WACO, Texas – During business trips across the country, Mayor Linda Ethridge likes to talk about Waco's small-town comforts and big-city amenities, the new programs at Baylor University and the local plant that makes Snickers candy bars.

She can name famous native Wacoans – comedian Steve Martin, author Robert Fulghum and former Texas Gov. Ann Richards among them. Ethridge will talk about the Dr Pepper Museum, honoring the soft drink created here in 1885 and the expansion project at the award-winning zoo.

She and other city leaders don't mention the 1993 standoff at a religious sect's compound that burned to the ground and left nearly 80 people dead – unless someone asks about it.

And that happens sometimes, even now.

"For some people, that association is still there," Ethridge said. "You'll have random interchanges with people, but it's a little less often."

The Branch Davidian site was some 10 miles east of the city, down a two-lane winding road through farmland and then off a dusty road. The group had been there quietly for decades but had been growing since the mid-1980s arrival of leader David Koresh.

Few in Waco even paid attention to them until Feb. 28, 1993, when federal agents tried to arrest Koresh for stockpiling illegal weapons. Four lawmen and six sect members died in the shootout following the raid, which led to a 51-day standoff.

Day after day, for nearly two months, people across the world heard about a town called Waco and saw television images of the rudimentary compound buildings rising out of the wind-swept prairie.

They saw authorities clad in cowboy hats and boots, guns slung in hip holsters. They heard late-night television comedians call the town "Wacko."

Waco Attractions
The 10 most popular tourist attractions in Waco, based on number of visitors in 2002:
1. Cameron Park Zoo: Natural-habitat zoo on 52 acres with 700 animals and 245 species.
2. Art Center Waco: Hosts art exhibitions and classes and has sculpture garden on 2.5 acres of McLennan Community College.
3. Texas Ranger Hall of Fame and Museum: Features Bonnie and Clyde's shotguns.
4. Dr Pepper Museum: Housed in the first bottling plant of the soft drink created in Waco in 1885.
5. Gov. Bill and Vara Daniel Historic Village: Includes 20 carefully preserved wood-frame buildings providing snapshots of Texas life in the 1890s.
6. Armstrong Browning Library: The world's largest collection of memorabilia of English Victorian poets Robert Browning and his wife, Elizabeth Barrett Browning.
7. Historic Waco Foundation: Four homes built in the mid-1800s and restored.
8. Texas Sports Hall of Fame: Pays tribute to some of Texas history's sports greats.
9. Earle-Harrison House: Greek Revival-style mansion is the only restored antebellum home open to the public in Waco.
10. Strecker Museum: Founded in 1856, the state's oldest continually operating museum.
Source: Waco Convention and Visitors Bureau.

Then on April 19, 1993, viewers saw the inferno.

"People were watching the Branch Davidian events unfold, and it sort of engraved that association to Waco in the minds of many people," said Ethridge, who was elected to the City Council in 1993 and mayor in 2000. "And a lot of that played to existing stereotypes: It was Texas, there were guns and it involved religion."

Many of Waco's 113,000 residents say it's an unfair association because the incident was outside city limits and involved federal agencies.

"Do they associate airplane crashes with the city where it happened?" said Joe T. Hayward, 81, a retired professor. "What bothers me are people who don't look at the facts and associate anything they can with a tragedy."

Some locals have little sympathy for surviving Davidians who claim the blaze was started after military vehicles rammed the buildings and sprayed tear gas inside.

A 2000 report on the final government investigation said the Davidians started the fire and shot each other – even some of the two dozen youngsters – in a mass suicide, ending the standoff.

"It was a tragedy but a tragedy that didn't have to happen, and it could have happened anywhere," Hayward said.

In the months after the compound burned, city leaders didn't notice a drop in tourism. But folks stopping by the Greater Waco Chamber of Commerce wanted to know all about the Branch Davidians and how to get to the site.

After lengthy discussions on how to handle the issue, officials decided to have maps printed.

"It's a historical event, and you can't deny it happened. If we did, we'd look like we were trying to hide something," said Jack Stewart, president and CEO of the chamber. "We really had nothing to do with it, other than geography."

As time has passed, the maps have run out, and fewer people inquire about the out-of-the-way site with no signs or markers.

Those living nearby say several hundred people stop each year at the site, which now has a one-room visitors center, some memorial plaques and a chapel built on the compound remnants. A grove of 82 trees was planted several years ago, one representing each victim, including some unborn children.

Meanwhile, city officials have been busy touting Waco as a neighbor to President Bush, who several times a year visits his 1,600-acre ranch about 20 miles away in Crawford.

Because Crawford has no motels and few restaurants, the media and those traveling with Bush must stay in Waco – where city officials have seized what they call a golden opportunity to showcase hometown hospitality.

Each time Bush goes to his "Western White House" or appears in Waco, the Chamber of Commerce distributes media kits containing a calendar of events, list of restaurants and information on laundry and other services. The chamber even sets up a hot line for the visiting media to call with questions day or night.

Now, reporters seem interested in finding out about Waco's history and attractions, and they rarely bring up the Branch Davidian standoff, Stewart said.

"We've been fortunate," he said. "We felt strongly that the president's residence would have a positive impact on Waco's image, and that's happened." –––


Online at: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/tsw/stories/041703dntexwaco.10ec0.html


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Florida; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: andhisslickness; atf; billclinton; branchdividian; dictators; elitemedia; elitemediacoverup; hillaryclinton; janetreno; janetrhino; liberalhell; liberalliars; murder; presidentclinton; sinatorclinton; thefbi; tyranny; waco; wacoplusten
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1 posted on 04/17/2003 10:28:27 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: yall


2 posted on 04/17/2003 10:28:49 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Saddam! / Check out my Freeper site !: http://home.attbi.com/~freeper/wsb/index.html)
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To: yall

3 posted on 04/17/2003 10:31:41 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Saddam! / Check out my Freeper site !: http://home.attbi.com/~freeper/wsb/index.html)
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To: MeeknMing
never forget this either bump...
4 posted on 04/17/2003 10:33:51 AM PDT by firewalk
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To: MeeknMing


5 posted on 04/17/2003 10:43:41 AM PDT by HaveGunWillTravel
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To: BeforeISleep
Yep. bttt . . .
6 posted on 04/17/2003 11:30:26 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Saddam! / Check out my Freeper site !: http://home.attbi.com/~freeper/wsb/index.html)
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To: MeeknMing
I think the plant actually makes Skittles. I worked across the street and you could smell the Skittles.
7 posted on 04/17/2003 12:06:35 PM PDT by sharktrager
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To: MeeknMing
While I never did specifically research Waco, there is some related info here:

Reno for Guv? Recall *this*

8 posted on 04/17/2003 12:08:58 PM PDT by backhoe (The 1990's will be forever remembered as "The Decade of Fraud(s)..."( Oslo, dot-bombs, clintons...))
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To: backhoe
Thanks. That's a pre-9/4/01 thread and locked so I couldn't bump it too . . .
9 posted on 04/17/2003 2:09:52 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Saddam! / Check out my Freeper site !: http://home.attbi.com/~freeper/wsb/index.html)
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To: MeeknMing; hellinahandcart; KLT; Ol' Dan Tucker; Noumenon; harpseal; attagirl; Carry_Okie; ...
Y'know this article pisses me off. That 2000 report exonerating the gubbermint only happened because John Danforth thought he was going to get the VP nod.

It was more than 82 people murdered there. Don't forget about the guy shot in cold blood and hung up like a slab of meat on a meat hook during the standoff.

And old farts like that "retired professor" are simply lying.

It was murder. Plain and simple. In my mind, I will always associate the disaster at Waco with the ATF, the FBI, Janet Rhino, and His Slickness.

May they burn in HELL!!!

10 posted on 04/17/2003 2:41:25 PM PDT by sauropod (If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy...)
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To: HaveGunWillTravel
Outstanding!
11 posted on 04/17/2003 2:44:28 PM PDT by sauropod (If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy...)
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To: sauropod
Here are some of my links I keep avaiable on my Give me Liberty Site regarding the killing of the Davidians:
An American Massacre at Waco
The Final Incineration of the Davidians
A couple of faces from the Waco Holocaust
No matter how the media continues to try and spin it ... no matter how the elitists and statists try to bury it, no matter how many people just try and forget it ... the killing of those innocent people by their own government stains our colletcive consciousness and will continue to do so until the truth comes out and until the guilty are clearly identified and brought to justice IMHO
12 posted on 04/17/2003 4:18:22 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: MeeknMing
A shameful despicable and eternally remembered event in our nation's history. Those responsible have still not paid for their abominable crimes: Janet Reno, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton
13 posted on 04/17/2003 5:46:05 PM PDT by eleni121
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To: MeeknMing
Waco will always bring the images of JBT's.
14 posted on 04/17/2003 8:09:16 PM PDT by Feiny
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bttt
15 posted on 04/17/2003 8:31:46 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: sauropod
It was murder. Plain and simple. In my mind, I will always associate the disaster at Waco with the ATF, the FBI, Janet Rhino, and His Slickness.

May they burn in HELL!!!


Sauro, Thanks! Peace and love, George.

16 posted on 04/18/2003 5:00:40 AM PDT by George Frm Br00klyn Park (FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!)
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To: MeeknMing; All
Thanks
17 posted on 04/18/2003 5:04:00 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: sauropod
May they burn in HELL!!!

I hate them for causing me to find comfort in that video clip where they're carrying the dead BATFag, with what's left of his head flapping around like a sack of s***.

A dead bully with a gun is a beautiful thing.

18 posted on 04/18/2003 5:12:01 AM PDT by AAABEST
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To: MeeknMing
The conspirators got away with it all in spite of repeated trials, and multi-million dollar investigations- that is what really gets to me!
19 posted on 04/18/2003 5:19:21 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: MeeknMing
I'll just say I haven't forgotten a durn thing, and leave it at that.
20 posted on 04/18/2003 5:22:51 AM PDT by LibKill (MOAB, the greatest advance in Foreign Relations since the cat-o'-nine-tails!)
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To: AAABEST; Poohbah
I hate them for causing me to find comfort in that video clip where they're carrying the dead BATFag, with what's left of his head flapping around like a sack of s***.

A dead bully with a gun is a beautiful thing.

Words can't describe how I feel about this post. You wonder why the politicians of both major parties, the media and the general public despise self described hard right conservatives? Its idiots like you, making sick and twisted comments like this.

This was so over the top that I was tempted to flag a mod in order to see your sorry soul banned, but instead, I think I'll leave it up for all posterity, so all who look can see what people like you are about.

Seek mental help, please.

21 posted on 04/18/2003 5:42:23 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (going into an election campaign without the paleocons is like going to war without the French)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
To clarify because the HTML wasn't holding up, the "dead bully" comment directly beneath AAAbest's italicized quote was his as well, and I found that equally reprehensible.
22 posted on 04/18/2003 5:44:00 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (going into an election campaign without the paleocons is like going to war without the French)
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To: sauropod
May they burn in HELL!!!

will settle for that, but would like to see something tangible in this corporeal sphere first ...

23 posted on 04/18/2003 5:47:19 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Ooooh, did I touch I nerve?! You're sounding like you may have to change your panties after that one. BTW, my soul is in great shape, oh newbie sower of much discord.

Let's agree to disagree. You like your bullies with guns alive, I like mine dead. History teaches us that the world is a much better place without them.

24 posted on 04/18/2003 6:17:51 AM PDT by AAABEST
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Hey, it's not as if anything this retard is important enough for his opinions to actually matter. Fringe freak is as fringe freak does.
25 posted on 04/18/2003 6:19:22 AM PDT by wimpycat ('Nemo me impune lacessit')
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
BTW, why are you a poop-bah always tag team pinging each other. You two give the impression you that you met through a personal ad in the Village Voice.
26 posted on 04/18/2003 6:20:39 AM PDT by AAABEST
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To: wimpycat
No, a "fringe freak" is someone like yourself and your Star Wars buddy who is pro-Reno and Pro-Klintoon on Waco.
27 posted on 04/18/2003 6:23:17 AM PDT by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST
The big question in my mind is how much you plan to do to deal with those LEOs you see as "bullies".

Your statements are pregnant with threat.

28 posted on 04/18/2003 6:26:31 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (going into an election campaign without the paleocons is like going to war without the French)
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To: no one in particular
this one might get funner as the day gets longer ...
29 posted on 04/18/2003 6:32:07 AM PDT by tomkat (going into an election with rinos is like going to war with the french as 'allies' ...)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
No ingrate. I don't ever threaten anyone with weapons, ever. Although I have a lousy temper, I've never EVER picked up a gun in anger, or even thought about doing so.

Unlike these vile pigs that attacked Americans for having the very weapons that they used during their psuedo military raid, my guns are strictly for recreation and defending myself and those I love against the abberant amongst us.

30 posted on 04/18/2003 6:33:26 AM PDT by AAABEST
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To: MeeknMing
10 years, and still no accountability.

The people who did this will face punishment, eventually, if not in their lifetimes, then afterwards. They just can't escape it.

31 posted on 04/18/2003 6:36:11 AM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
"A dead bully with a gun is a beautiful thing."

Repeat for posterity, it is a beautiful thing. The federal agents that got killed at Waco brought it on themselves and had it comming. The real tradegy is that the ones who survived are not all rotting in prison.

It is puzzling to me how someone who professes to believe in the rule of law or God could not believe otherwise.

32 posted on 04/18/2003 6:38:17 AM PDT by SSN558 (Be on the lookout for Black/White Supremacists)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine; Poohbah
Didn't you and Poohbah meet at GooseStepping class?
33 posted on 04/18/2003 6:39:41 AM PDT by wimpycat ('Nemo me impune lacessit')
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To: wimpycat; Poohbah
Heheh - I was a sharp young Senator from Naboo back then.....
34 posted on 04/18/2003 6:51:30 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (they'll take my M1A1 Abrams when they can pry my charred corpse from its blackened turret)
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To: basil; CounterCounterCulture; austinTparty; DoughtyOne; Vanman; doug from upland; Henchster; ...
FYI 10 year PING
35 posted on 04/18/2003 7:17:57 AM PDT by B Knotts
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To: AAABEST
I hate them for causing me to find comfort in that video clip where they're carrying the dead BATFag, with what's left of his head flapping around like a sack of s***.

A dead bully with a gun is a beautiful thing.

You're a disgusting government hating conspiracy freak. You're as bad as Palestinians who dance in the streets after Israelis have been blown to bits.

May whatever you find "comfort" in happen to you or someone you love. Maybe then you'll learn.

36 posted on 04/18/2003 7:56:11 AM PDT by The Lake City Gar
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To: SSN558
Repeat for posterity, it is a beautiful thing. The federal agents that got killed at Waco brought it on themselves and had it comming. The real tradegy is that the ones who survived are not all rotting in prison.

You and all the Montana Militia Men like you sound EXACTLY like the FREAKS on DUhhh who run around calling President Bush "Hitler" and our Troops "Baby Killing Storm Troopers".

All of you are fringe freaks and nothing more.

37 posted on 04/18/2003 8:02:19 AM PDT by The Lake City Gar
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To: B Knotts
AMEN ! bttt . . .
38 posted on 04/18/2003 9:09:09 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Saddam! / Check out my Freeper site !: http://home.attbi.com/~freeper/wsb/index.html)
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To: MeeknMing
The more I think about this, the more I am ashamed that Texans were not out protesting at that time against government intrusion into religious community.
39 posted on 04/18/2003 9:36:44 AM PDT by DrewsDad
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To: The Lake City Gar
You're a disgusting government hating conspiracy freak. You're as bad as Palestinians who dance in the streets after Israelis have been blown to bits. May whatever you find "comfort" in happen to you or someone you love. Maybe then you'll learn

Ah! Someone with a lecture on humanity who wishes other's family members dead. Pretty rich. If you want me harmed you should try to do it yourself sometime.

I never thought it was a conspiracy, as most conspiracies are secret. The BATFags (simpleton morons that they are) brought the press along so that their evil and banality could be fully documented. The only "conspiracy freaks" are the minority who are pro-Reno and pro-Klintoon on Waco.

Here's just one example of your hero's handiwork:

As I said, the only good thug with a gun is a dead thug with a gun.

40 posted on 04/18/2003 12:56:52 PM PDT by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST
Yeah...It's too bad that little Shari there had government hating FREAKS for parents who worshiped an even BIGGER government hating FREAK who was probably having perverted sex with her up until the day he forced her to be BURNED TO DEATH in his name, rather than just simply walking out the door to safety. LIKE OTHER PEOPLE BEFORE THEM HAD DONE!!!

You know...All those LIVE people???

I'm not surprised you're defending Koresh, you seem to have a lot in common with him. Including reveling in the deaths of innocents.
41 posted on 04/18/2003 1:13:55 PM PDT by The Lake City Gar
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To: AAABEST
Ah! Someone with a lecture on humanity who wishes other's family members dead.

I only wish apon you what YOU seem to revel-in when it happens to others.

It's COMPLETELY your call.

42 posted on 04/18/2003 1:27:21 PM PDT by The Lake City Gar
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To: The Lake City Gar
Actually Koresh, as whacked as he was, felt bad about the dead agents. It's documented as part of the record.

I don't feel sorry for them, any more than I feel sorry for a dead Nazi, or a dead gangster.

Innocents? I've heard some stupidity out of you but referring to those who "do" women, children and pets with gear more deadly than what I was issued in the military as "innocents" tops all. I'll put you on my "blockheads who'll say anything to make a point list". "Innocents" ....good one.


43 posted on 04/18/2003 1:51:25 PM PDT by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST
Actually Koresh, as whacked as he was, felt bad about the dead agents. It's documented as part of the record.

LOL!!

Yes...So bad that he kept brain-washing his followers up until the day they all ALLOWED themselves to be burned to death and took their children with them.

Yeah...David Koresh was a great guy...Big heart. He cared about those federal agents.

44 posted on 04/18/2003 2:03:05 PM PDT by The Lake City Gar
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To: Jeff Head
No matter how the media continues to try and spin it ...

Ha ha ... even Ian Goddard has debunked the 'work' done by McNutty:

http://iangoddard.net/waco.htm

Debunking the Waco FLIR

(c) 2001 Ian Williams Goddard

CONCLUSION

The Waco FLIR gunshot claim purports that federal agents machine gunned men, women, and children as they tried to escape the Waco fire. In other words, the United States government is guilty of the systematic mass murder of its own citizens -- a crime against humanity. However, as the facts above demonstrate, the alleged evidentiary basis for this most serious charge -- that the official report lists fifteen bodies shot to death near the rear exit -- is completely false. And the flashes recorded on FLIR that are said to be the gunshots killing those allegedly trying to escape do not actually resemble real gunshots. Instead, the long durations of the flashes resemble thermal reflections. Furthermore, the flashes appear on detectable pieces of reflective debris. The entire Waco FLIR gunshot/mass murder claim is a confabulated mirage built upon falsity and bad analysis.

Prior to the acquisition of empirical data about gun-muzzle flashes and thermal reflections on FLIR, and prior to detailed analyses of the contents of the Waco FLIR, it was a reasonable concern that the flashes might be gunshots directed at Mt Carmel. However, the empirical data and analyses cited in this report leave no room for doubt that the Waco FLIR flashes are thermal reflections on debris, not gunshots. Yet the gunshot claim continues to proliferate due to a concerted effort to sell videos on the topic. Unfortunately the technical nature of the subject leaves most at a loss to see the Waco FLIR gunshot claim for the hallucination that it is.

Hopefully this report will serve as a beacon of reason in a sea of misinformation.


45 posted on 04/18/2003 2:36:52 PM PDT by _Jim (v)
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To: sauropod
That 2000 report exonerating the gubbermint only happened because John Danforth thought he was going to get the VP nod.

A well-researched report produced by a couple of dozen well-respected experts each in their field - SOMETHING the conspiro-loon crowd apparently ignores.

What - YOU thought Danforth wrote all the research and analysis himself?

Whoa!

The full report, plus appendices can be accessed here:

http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/b10a03.html#danforth

46 posted on 04/18/2003 2:44:36 PM PDT by _Jim (v)
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To: MeeknMing
What reference to Waco at this late date would be compelte without listing this set of documetns for reference:

http://www.usdoj.gov/05publications/waco/wacotocpg.htm

Titled thusly:

Report to the Deputy Attorney
General on the Events at Waco, Texas
February 28 to April 19, 1993
and including such documents as


Appendix G. List of Children Released During Standoff

the following children were successfully released from 2/28/93, continuing through 3/2/93.


NUMBER		NAME				DOB			DATE RELEASED

1.		ANGELICA SONOBE - WF		01/20/87		02/28/93
2.		CRYSTAL SONOBE	- WF		08/07/89		02/28/93
3.		RENAE FAGAN	- BF		03/17/86		02/28/93
4.		NAHARA FAGAN	- BF		02/26/89		02/28/93
5.		LANDON WENDEL	- WM		01/30/89		03/01/93
6.		TAMARA WENDEL	- WF		07/23/87		03/01/93
7.		JAUNESSA WENDEL	- WF		05/23/84		03/01/93
8.		PATRON WENDEL	- WM		10/01/92		03/01/93
9.		SCOTT MABB 	- WM		09/30/81		03/01/93
10.		CHRISTYN MABB	- WF		07/21/85		03/01/93
11.		JACOB MABB	- WF		12/20/83		03/01/93
12.		BRYAN SCHROEDER	- WM		03/07/90		03/01/93
13.		JAIME MARTIN	- BM		05/31/82		03/01/93
14.		JOSHUA SYLVIA	- WM		11/07/85		03/01/93
15.		NATALIE NOBREGA	- WF		03/20/82		03/01/93
16.		JOANNE VAEGA	- WF		03/01/89		03/02/93
17.		DANIEL MARTIN	- BM		07/12/86		03/02/93
18.		KIMBERLY MARTIN	- BF					03/02/93
During 3/3/93, three additional children were released bringing the total to twenty one (21) children:

NUMBER		NAME				DOB		DATE RELEASED
19.		MARK JONES - WM			06/27/80	03/03/93
20.		KEVIN JONES - WM		01/06/82	03/03/93
21.		HEATHER JONES - WF		10/25/83	03/03/93
It is important to note that for the remainder of this siege, not one additional child was released. Negotiation team members repeatedly addressed the priority objective of affecting a total release of all remaining children. These efforts were undertaken on a daily basis, if not on multiple occasions daily, throughout each day of the siege to no avail.

It became readily apparent that KORESH had "thinned the ranks" of the children of those which he did not consider his immediate family and those that represented the direct "line of DAVID (KORESH)


and


Appendix C. List of Demands by Davidians During Standoff and FBI Responses

1.
    
2/28/93 - (14:29)
First demand: that KRLD broadcast a message that ATF is holding their fire and will not attack further.
Granted 2/28/93, 16:15 and 16:45.

2.
    
2/28/93 - (18:10)
Play recorded message of KORESH on KRLD and kids will be released two by two.
Granted 2/28/93, 19:38.

3.
    
3/02/93 - (02:34)
SCOTT SONOBE: Play KORESH'S tape on national T.V. and we will come out.
Granted 3/02/93, 13:32

4.
    
3/02/93 - (04:55)
RITA RIDDLE: Play tape during prime time and the remaining women and children will exit.
Granted 3/02/93, 13:32

5.
    
3/03/93 - (09:47)
KORESH wants 1501 telephone cord.
Granted 3/04/93, 15:20.

6.
    
3/03/93 - (13:31)
Allow KORESH to give a bible study and MARK JONES will come out.
Granted 3/03/93, 14:48.

7.
    
3/03/93 - (17:27)
STEVE SCHNEIDER: Wants dead, smelly dog removed.
Granted 3/04/93, 15:38

8.
    
3/04/93 - (23:29)
KORESH: Requests suture kit for hand.
Granted 3/05/93, 12:59.


47 posted on 04/18/2003 2:57:00 PM PDT by _Jim (v)
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To: _Jim; sauropod; Jeff Head; MeeknMing
Jim as I've told you in the past, you've got good info and make some good points. Problem is you're trying to polish a turd, something that can't be done. If people on this thread are confused by the facts it's not their fault. The facts have been tortured, misrepresented, hidden and lied about by all parties, especially the agencies who bear the responsibility for the tragedy who have a stake in not revealing the truth.

There was much evil to go around. Koresh was evil, and our government was evil as well. Heck even evil McVeigh was there. How spooky is that?

Satan had his way with America that day. For some strange pathological and pathetic reason, you continuously attempt to exonerate the evil actions taken by the BATF and others. You just can't do that.

When I say can't, I don't mean as in I don't think you should (I don't but that's not my point). I mean can't as in you won't be able to. You should change your screenname to _Jim_Quixote.

48 posted on 04/18/2003 3:41:46 PM PDT by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST
bttt
49 posted on 04/18/2003 4:01:28 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Saddam! / Check out my Freeper site !: http://home.attbi.com/~freeper/wsb/index.html)
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To: AAABEST
I mean can't as in you won't be able to.

First off, this sounds more like a self-imposed personal limitation set quite arbitrarily than a true, reality-based assessment based on a clean, open-minded review of factual information available to date.

Secondly, the unfettered creation of propaganda by McNutty in his Michael Moore-class attacks on the actual facts in his films has had devastating effcts to date. Witness McVeigh and his stated reasons for pulling off the Murrah building in OKC ...

I hold McNutty partially responsible for misleading Tim McVeigh by wanton disregard for facts and the 'reckless charges' he cast about as confetti.

As I have personnally written in the past:

Waco ... was a terrible tragedy compounded by a misunderstanding on the part of the HRT for the zeal and allegiance his (Vernon Howell's) people had for him and the 'faith' they practiced.

An initial 'raid' whose element of surprise had been lost, continued in execution with tragic loss of life on both sides culminating 51 days later in the eventual exercise of a non-explicit [Note: We now know more about the probability of a 'suicide pact' than when I originally wrote this] 'suicide-pact' carried out by Vernon Howell as a culmnation of his Armagedon scenario under pressure by the eventual and slow demolition of the Mt. Carmel by the insertion of tear gas meant to hasten the departure of the people inside but intead resulted in the 'execution' of the Armagedon suicide pact by order of Vernon Howell, a scene replete with fire designed to instill fear and turmoil into his flock such as to allow Vernon to 'guide' them unto 'his' (Vernon's) final solution ...

Both very tragic *and* very sad ...

May it never happen again.

Let the truth be told, let the truth be known, let there be "No more McVeigh's".

50 posted on 04/18/2003 5:07:21 PM PDT by _Jim (w)
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