Liberal Methodist Leaders Call Bush to Repentance

AgapePress ^ | April 17, 2003 | Jody Brown and Bill Fancher

[Willie Green]

For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.

Those Whose Stance Falls Outside Traditional Methodism Take President to Task

(AgapePress) - Several officials of the United Methodist Church (UMC) are calling one of their fellow Methodists to repentance. While that, in and of itself, may not be unusual, it is noteworthy that the call appeared in a full-page magazine ad -- and the person called to repentance is President George W. Bush.

The April 5 edition of Christian Century magazine contains a full-page ad titled "A Prophetic Epistle from United Methodists Calling Our Brother George W. Bush to Repent." The ad, signed by several United Methodist bishops and the head of the denomination's lobby office in Washington, D.C., denounces the president for contributing to "spiritual forces of wickedness" and calls for him to "repent from domestic and foreign policies that are incompatible with the teaching and example of Christ."

Among those signing the ad are UM Bishops Joseph Sprague and Melvin Talbert, and Board of Church and Society general secretary Jim Winkler. The officials accuse President Bush of "threaten[ing] the very earth and all its inhabitants with open discussion of the use of nuclear weapons," and promoting "redemptive violence" in his policy towards the "sovereign nation of Iraq."

In addition, it claims that the president's domestic policy is "incongruent with Jesus' teaching" and falls short of the compassion of which Jesus spoke, despite Bush's claim to be a "compassionate conservative."

The ad concludes with the statement: "May our call to repentance speak to your conscience."

Mark Tooley heads the United Methodist committee of the Institute on Religion and Democracy. He says that first of all, the signers of the ad "are hardly symbols of strong, mainstream" United Methodist beliefs. He points out that Bishop Sprague denies that Jesus Christ is eternally divine, Bishop Talbert has endorsed same-sex "marriage," and Winkler is a pacifist.

Mark Tooley

According to Tooley, the UMC affirms Christ's full deity, opposes same-sex unions, and is not pacifist. "Yet these church officials claim it is President Bush who is violating his own church's teachings," he says.

"These [church] officials are effectively telling the president he is not a good Christian because his policies do not match their own left-wing beliefs," Tooley continues in a printed release.

"Bush is supposedly a bad Christian and a bad Methodist because, like most Methodists, he does not agree with these church officials in their equation of compassion with a large federal welfare state and in their opposition to a strong military defense for America."

Tooley says it is "nonsense" for the UMC officials to "equate their brand of politics with Christianity, and assume that political disagreement is a sign of spiritual apostasy."

Anti-War Academics
Religious leaders are not the only anti-war faction in the news these days. It can also be found in the world of academia.

Anti-war demonstrators are composed primarily of college-age students, both in America and in Europe. Paul Weyrich of the Free Congress Foundation says that is because anti-American feelings permeate the world of academia -- and always will.

"The academics identify with academics abroad," Weyrich says, "and of course, the academic community [abroad] is very anti-American and believes that George Bush is a greater problem than Saddam Hussein or anybody else you can name."

Weyrich says that anti-American attitude is transferred to the students on a daily basis. "They believe that they need to expose the student community to the anti-American point of view; hence, the kind of people that they are really featuring in their various programs."

Weyrich says that is why students are on the front line of various types of anti-American demonstrations.

[Willie Green]

Related thread:

Methodist Pastor Not Fazed by Peace Group's Possible Link with Communists

[aruanan]

Liberal Methodist Leaders Call Bush to Repentance

As though liberal Methodist leaders have any clue at all as to what constitutes repentance.

[Lost Highway]

Romans 13

Submission to the Authorities

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

[aruanan]

He points out that Bishop Sprague denies that Jesus Christ is eternally divine, Bishop Talbert has endorsed same-sex "marriage," and Winkler is a pacifist.

I know someone who knows Sprague who says he is, let me paraphrase this, a real dick.

[dts32041]

Are you saying the man could where a condemn on his head and it would not look out of place?

[aruanan]

3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Notice, though, that these verses exist to demonstrate which rulers are not G-d's servants to do their citizens good. Saddam, Castro, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc., etc., are all people who clearly punished right behavior and rewarded wrong.

[kb2614]

There is a reason why people are leaving the UMC and other mainline churches in droves.

[goodnesswins]

Hmmmm....looks like it's really time to become a CATHOLIC in S. Dakota.....

[MEG33]

My relatives are turning over in their graves. This is not the Methodist Church of old.

[dirtboy]

ping. you'll love this one...

The ad, signed by several United Methodist bishops and the head of the denomination's lobby office in Washington, D.C., denounces the president for contributing to "spiritual forces of wickedness" and calls for him to "repent from domestic and foreign policies that are incompatible with the teaching and example of Christ."

Among those signing the ad are UM Bishops Joseph Sprague and Melvin Talbert, and Board of Church and Society general secretary Jim Winkler. ... it claims that the president's domestic policy is "incongruent with Jesus' teaching" and falls short of the compassion of which Jesus spoke, despite Bush's claim to be a "compassionate conservative."

Mark Tooley heads the United Methodist committee of the Institute on Religion and Democracy...points out that Bishop Sprague denies that Jesus Christ is eternally divine, Bishop Talbert has endorsed same-sex "marriage," and Winkler is a pacifist.

[Lost Highway]

good point.

[aruanan]

Are you saying the man could where [sic] a condemn [sic] on his head and it would not look out of place?

Maybe not in France. And I think condemnation is already pretty firmly seated on Sprague's head.

[mabelkitty]

So Impeachment for Bill Clinton was wrong?

Wow. And he swore on the Bible, too.

[Dutchgirl]

Unfortunately, the heirarchy of the Methodist Church has lost all claim to any moral authority normally afforded those who follow Christ. There is a web-site dedicated to reforming the church http://www.goodnewsmag.org/ which outlines the internal battle...including how the United Methodist Women used funds for mission to lobby Bill Clinton to VETO the ban on partial birth abortion.

[mabelkitty]

I challenge anybody to find a true man of God in any church today.

[mabelkitty]

edit

(sarcasm/off)

[Dog Gone]

Anyone know a good rightwing church? I'm getting pretty tired of hearing from all the hypocritical, commie-loving, Bush-bashing ones.

[MEG33]

A bit harsh.

[madison10]

There are many true men of God in churches today. May depend on whether you are going by YOUR definition or God's, as to their level of holiness.

UMC Bishops have alot of nerve. I would suggest that President Bush a better group to worship with. ;)

[Nathaniel Fischer]

My church (the Christian Reformed Church) is pretty good. I think the PCA is also reasonably conservative.

[dts32041]

Picky picky I know I can't spell, even with a a spell checker, but I was not going to spell wear or rubber, and offend everybody on the site.

Esp. after JR just took out my monthly contribution today.

[Jimmy Valentine]

As tyhe decendant of old time grim faced, Weslyan Methodist circuit riding preachers, I can say with confidence that they would have burned these people at the stake(But they would not have danced or drank spirits at the time).

Grim regards, brothers.....

[axel f]

If someone answers your question, please let me know because I've been wondering the same thing.

[babylonian]

Repent to who? God or the Methodist leaders?

[ArcLight]

Leaving aside the arguments about the war, this message reminds me of a pet peeve of mine about liberal Christians. These guys are extraordinarily full of themselves, or so it seems to me.

Check out the heading of their ad: "A Prophetic Epistle from United Methodists Calling Our Brother George W. Bush to Repent." Those first words are what set me off. It'd be one thing for them to run an ad expressing their profound disagreement with the president; nor do I have any objection to their basing their disagreement on religious principle.

But to call their message "a prophetic epistle?" Sheesh. Who do these guys think they are? Isaiah? St. Paul? Give me a break. You can disagree with the other fellow, without tarting up your expression of disagreement with the borrowed authority of holy scripture.

I attend a very conservative Baptist church. I can't imagine any of the clergy there daring to describe themselves as "prophetic" or describing their writings as "epistles." It's just too uppity, by a long shot. But these guys, they don't miss a beat. One more reason I tend to ignore 'em.

[arkfreepdom]

Not when you consider that the Pope argued against the war AND met with the French Foreign Minister, Villaprick, just before the war. The RCC and mainstrem churches are out of touch.

[eleni121]

Disgusting bunch!

But it's not only the United Methodists...there are cells of left wing self styled Christians in most major denominations.

[Nathaniel Fischer]

I think he's a Methodist because Laura is, and she's kind of liberal. I doubt she'd be comfortable in a more conservative church. (which doesn't mean they shouldn't go to one, it just explains why they don't)

[MEG33]

You won't find this drivel from the pulpit in a Texas Methodist Church that I have ever visited.

[DeathfromBelow]

They are hard to find, but out there. Might try Calvary Chapels.

[LauraJean]

These people should talk of repentance. They have the blood of millions of innocent people on their hands. I can only hope when it is time for them to meet their maker they will be greeted by the innocent men, women and children tortured and killed by Hussain

[NetValue]

Methodists, indeed any church, should be free to engage in political activities...but not with a tax exemption. This church needs to be audited for compliance with the "no politics" rules for their tax exemption.

[aruanan]

My relatives are turning over in their graves. This is not the Methodist Church of old.

But there are many, many, many Methodist churches both here and abroad (I know of them in Brazil and England) that are as Methodist and Bible-believing as they ever were in Wesley's day. The problem was that the Methodist church has become ruled not by the laity but by the ecclesiastics. This was probably how it became possible for so many higher church offices to have been occupied by functional unbelievers. Some people tell folks in these Bible-believing Methodist churches that they need to leave the United Methodist Church. They, on the other hand, say that it is their church and that it would be immoral for them to abandon it, to just hand everything that so many have worked for over so many years over to a bunch of unbelievers. I'm happy for those who are in particular congregations who are unable to get rid of an unbelieving pastor leave to join other churches of the Methodist tradition (Free Methodists, Wesleyan Methodists, Primitive Methodists). About 5 families came to our church from a United Methodist Church after they finally discovered that the pastor didn't even consider himself to be a Christian but had become a pastor because that was how he saw himself able to engage in social activism. He was also the college roommate of that UM pastor who performed a ceremony of union for a homosexual couple in Chicago and was censured for it. But it's also a good thing for United Methodist churches to try to oppose liberals in the church hierarchy and seek to convert them or throw them out on their unbelieving butts. Oops, did that sound uncharitable?

[jagrmeister]

Why don't we strike a bargain. Why don't these NAMBLA-member Liberal clergymen stop raping children and then we'll think about listening to their political outbursts.

[aruanan]

Picky picky I know I can't spell, even with a a spell checker, but I was not going to spell wear or rubber, and offend everybody on the site.

No, that's just what one does when one is giving an accurate quote.

[Nathaniel Fischer]

I'll bet they're a lot more conservative down in the South. Where I live in NY, these 'churches' are pathetic.

[IndyPatriot]

IMO, The Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod is very traditional. I joined about a year ago after the Episcopal Church I was raised in became intolerable to me. ( priestesses, same sex marriage, homosexual clergy.) The Missouri Synod remains consistent with traditional Christian theology, unlike the Evangelical Lutherans who have entered into an unholy alliance with the Episcopalians.

[aruanan]

I challenge anybody to find a true man of God in any church today.

I've seen plenty of them. My father is one. He also happens to be one of the few pastors I've known who aren't morons.

[MEG33]

Not uncharitable at all.

[bmwcyle]

I am a Methodist and the central church can go F itself.

[LisaAnne]

None of the churches are the way they used to be. I quit going, I can't stomach it anymore. It's just me and God now, I figure I don't need the rest of it.

[Dr. Frank fan]

Impeachment proceedings are perfectly consistent with respect for civil authorities. Impeachment is provided for and described by the Constitution of our country.

[bmwcyle]

PS Mark is a member of my church, Pender Methodist, Fairfax, VA. We always are fighting the central church.

[aruanan]

Methodists, indeed any church, should be free to engage in political activities...but not with a tax exemption. This church needs to be audited for compliance with the "no politics" rules for their tax exemption.

No church should be prevented from speaking on any matter, political or otherwise. Nor should its tax-exempt status depend on this. It never did before until relatively recently when, for political purposes, churches were throttled by making their ab initio tax exemption depend on keeping quiet about political matters. Let a bit more history on the subject, because in this area your net value is zero.

[Cordova Belle]

WHOA!!!
I could name dozens.
I work in a church.
The place I work is FULL of them!

[Fifth Business]

I think they've got Jesus confused with Jimmy Carter. Jimmy's the one who appreciates despots.

[The Old Hoosier]

Doesn't matter. If he wins another term, Bush will turn Catholic in 2009. Come back then and tell me if I'm wrong.

[Nathaniel Fischer]

The risk I see in going to a Bible-believing church in a liberal denomination is that if you get a liberal pastor or liberal leadership, you have very little recourse except to switch churches. With my church, the denomination would prevent it from getting too liberal. I don't know if that's the case with your church, but I've recently listened to horror stories from people who came to my church from the nearby RCA church when it's leadership rejected Christianity.

[kayak]

There is a reason why people are leaving the UMC and other mainline churches in droves.

Yep! I'm one of them .... and just this sort of garbage is one of the reasons why.

[crz]

I think I am going to attend the LDS church. Even though, no church is perfect.