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In The Valleys Of Patagonia, The Talk Is Of An Astonishing Revival Of The Welsh Language
Independent (UK) ^ | 4-19-2003 | Marcus Tanner

Posted on 04/18/2003 4:39:52 PM PDT by blam

In the valleys of Patagonia, the talk is of an astonishing revival of the Welsh language

By Marcus Tanner in Gaiman
19 April 2003

In a red-brick farmhouse in the Patagonian village of Gaiman, Eluned Gonzalez is making jam, and masses of it. As her tiny home-help, a native woman with a long pigtail, sweeps the floor aimlessly, Eluned and her family prepare a multitude of jars that will store enough preserves for many winters.

It is a quintessentially Welsh scene, and as the vats of fruit bubble, the conversation flows in Welsh, the language in which Eluned and her sister Tegai were brought up, and which her son, Fabio, 30, also speaks fluently. Many people of Eluned's generation in Gaiman village speak Welsh, which took root in this distant corner of Argentina, more than 1,200 miles from Buenos Aires, after a group of Welsh colonists arrived in 1865.

Welsh speakers of Fabio's age are much rarer, but not as unusual as they were because, without fanfare, a Welsh revival has taken hold in Patagonia. Over the past decade, hundreds of local people have re-learned the language their parents and grandparents spurned to fit in with Juan Peron's Latin Argentina.

"It was in decline until 1965," says Professor Fernando Coronato, of the Patagonian Institute in Puerto Madryn, the port where the settlers landed. "But the centenary celebrations started a revival and since then it's grown."

The professor is living proof of his own words. With not a drop of Welsh blood in his veins, he speaks with a fluency that would shame much of Cardiff, as does his colleague, Marcello. The revival has touched men such as David Williams, a fresh-faced doctor in his early 30s. He has Welsh blood on both sides but grew up knowing only Spanish. "There used to be a kind of shame about Welsh," he said. "The Welsh were teased for talking differently so my parents did not speak it."

But he feels no shame, and learned Welsh two years ago. After his first child was born 14 months ago he proudly named him Eric Thomas, in homage to the distant mother country.

Welsh language and culture flourished in the Chubut valley of Patagonia until the First World War. The colonists dotted the valley, which they named the Gwladfa ("the colony") with chapels that reminded them of the ones at home, named Seion, Moriah, Bethel or Nazareth. Their rural settlements, Trelew, Bryn Crwn and Dolavon, recall their dream of creating a new Wales in South America.

But the dream crumbled after the war. The Argentinian government increased pressure on them to assimilate into the Spanish-speaking mainstream and flooded the valley with Spanish and Italian immigrants. As people increasingly "married out", they forgot their roots.

The centenary celebrations in 1965 led to a modest revival but the fashion for all things Welsh took off only in the late 1990s, after the British Council and the new Welsh Assembly set up a scheme to send Welsh teachers to Patagonia. The interest they won galvanised Sara Lewis, of Aberdare, who is now working in Gaiman with the project. "One couple I teach has no Welsh roots at all," she says. "He is Australian and she is Argentinian but they feel learning Welsh makes them part of the community."

Her colleague Nesta Davies, working 400 miles west in Trevelin, has been equally impressed. "I just marvel at how the language survived here for generations," she says.

The Chubu valley's Welsh minister, Mair Davies, says the teachers have worked a minor miracle. "They've done such a great job," she says. "If it wasn't for them, my generation would be the last to speak Welsh. As things are, hopefully, it will go on."

But Professor Coronato warns against false hopes that the fad for attending Welsh classes and eating torta galesa ("Welsh cakes") will restore Welsh culture to the place it occupied in Patagonia 80 years ago. "It will never be the language of the streets again," he said. "What we are seeing is a search for identity." This is a point Ms Davies, at Trelew's Tabernacle chapel, endorses. "The new Welsh speakers don't come to the chapel," she says.

With Spanish names and backgrounds, the new Celts belong to a different world from that in which Eluned Gonzalez and her sisters were raised. In their youth, Welsh was the language of hearth and home, honed by daily prayers and weekly sermons. When I went to Gaiman's Bethel chapel on a Sunday, the congregation was no more than 40, and most were elderly.

Now the keepers of the Welsh flame in Patagonia fear the Welsh Assembly will pull the plug on the teachers' scheme, just as it has borne fruit. Interest in Welsh shown by the Assembly's English-speaking Labour majority is fitful and there are doubts whether the two teachers now in Patagonia will be replaced.

"Without help from Wales, it won't survive," says Elvey Macdonald, who took part in setting up the project. With only about 2,000 speakers left in Patagonia, he says, the number is too small to be self-sustaining.

But like many Welsh Patagonians, he is proud this little sliver of the Celtic people has held out for so long, and so far from home. "I remember a man from the BBC coming to Patagonia and saying it would all be dead within 30 years," he said. "That was more than 50 years ago."


TOPICS: News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: cymric; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; language; patagonia; princemadoc; revival; uk; valleys; wales; welsh
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1 posted on 04/18/2003 4:39:52 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
I get the general impression that my wife will be playing "Celtic" music tomorrow morning (actually not all that bad to listen to).
2 posted on 04/18/2003 4:43:51 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (California wine beats French wine in blind taste tests. Boycott French wine.)
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To: blam
The land of Roberto Roberts, Ricardo Richards.

3 posted on 04/18/2003 4:45:52 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: Clemenza; Black Agnes; rmlew; Yehuda; nutmeg; PARodrig; Ex Submariner
ping
4 posted on 04/18/2003 5:02:31 PM PDT by Cacique
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To: blam
Living Welsh is the best revenge.
5 posted on 04/18/2003 5:04:09 PM PDT by Grut
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To: blam
Amazing -- the article doesn't once mention the former Chilean president Patricio Allwyn.

Still, my part-Cymric pride (grandma's maiden name was Phillips) is stirred by this development.

6 posted on 04/18/2003 5:26:03 PM PDT by MikalM (Freedom of Speech does NOT mean freedom from criticism)
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To: blam
Americanwr ydw i. Dwi yn siarad Cymraeg. Pasg hapus i chi!

I have a favorite song written and performed by Plethyn that describes the conscription of Welshmen into the British Navy to attack Patagonia. Not a happy event. Another favorite song, Down yn Ol, describes the victory over the French at Agincourt.

A humorous tale was recounted to me a few years ago. A Welsh speaking Patagonian traveled to Cardiff in hopes of meeting other Welsh speakers in Wales. The poor man was disappointed to find that there are few Welsh speakers in Cardiff. His alternative language, Spanish, was not of much help either. One must travel north to about Carmarthen to find an abundance of Welsh speakers. Most people a fluent in English and Welsh and will immediately switch to the one that you handle best. The small villages in the center of Wales still have a fair number of Welsh speaking monoglots.

7 posted on 04/18/2003 5:30:53 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
There is a plaque at Fort Morgan, at the mouth of Mobile Bay (damn the torpedoes), that commerates the 1170AD landing of Prince Madoc here in Mobile.
8 posted on 04/18/2003 5:38:38 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Did The Welsh Discover America?
9 posted on 04/18/2003 5:41:56 PM PDT by blam
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To: Myrddin
The small villages in the center of Wales still have a fair number of Welsh speaking monoglots.

Thanks for the new word (monoglot)! I'll have fun with it.

10 posted on 04/18/2003 5:45:26 PM PDT by solzhenitsyn ("Live Not By Lies")
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To: blam
I attribute my shooting skill with just about any projectile weapon I pick up to my Welsh blood. (Jones, great grandfather came over in 1900's) I don't know if I really had any longbowmen in my family tree but it makes for a good story.
11 posted on 04/18/2003 5:53:46 PM PDT by Tailback
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To: Myrddin; blam; Fiddlstix; Rightfootforward
Ping to some Welsh cousins.

Nice link at #9, blam.
12 posted on 04/18/2003 5:55:51 PM PDT by PoisedWoman (Fed up with the CORRUPT liberal media)
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To: Myrddin
We ran into quite a bit of it in Snowdonia/Llangollen, etc. Funnily enough, the local BBC relay tower on a nearby mountain had broken, so we could only get a local channel. You guessed it; I have no idea what they were talking about, but it was so cool to hear! Taking the Ffestinog through the mountains, and going through villages like Ddualt and Penrhyn, and crawling around the burial chamber Bryn Celli Ddu is something I shall remember byth bythoedd .

Lovely people, and the most heartbreakingly beautiful place I have ever been.

I'll be back.

13 posted on 04/18/2003 6:44:19 PM PDT by Gorzaloon (Contents may have settled during shipping, but this tagline contains the stated product weight.)
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To: Cacique
Read Bruce Chatwin's In Patagonia when I was in High School, in which he spends some time talking about the Welsh in that region.

Let's also not forget the Anglo-Argentines, who have been publishing The Buenos Aires Herald for over 150 years and founded the most exclusive club in the country (The Jockey Club of Buenos Aires).

How can a nation that attracted so many hard working Europeans get so screwed up so fast? Oh yeah, a certain officer of Spanish and Sardinian ancestry who discovered a "Third Way" between capitalism and Communism.

14 posted on 04/18/2003 7:25:31 PM PDT by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: blam
There are Irish settlements in Patagonian also. And they were more than glad to fight the Brits in the Falklands. I remember reading a article where the Irish fought harder than any of the Argentine troops, this according to a Brit commander.
15 posted on 04/18/2003 7:29:09 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis
"There are Irish settlements in Patagonian also. And they were more than glad to fight the Brits in the Falklands. I remember reading a article where the Irish fought harder than any of the Argentine troops, this according to a Brit commander."

Thanks, interesting information. I didn't know that.

16 posted on 04/18/2003 7:41:30 PM PDT by blam
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To: truth_seeker
The land of Roberto Roberts, Ricardo Richards.

Roberto ap Robert

17 posted on 04/18/2003 8:34:47 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Soddom has left the bunker.)
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To: blam
Did The Welsh Discover America?

Yes but then the two brothers killed each other on the way back.

18 posted on 04/18/2003 8:39:27 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Soddom has left the bunker.)
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To: Gorzaloon
Lovely people, and the most heartbreakingly beautiful place I have ever been. I'll be back.

The Welsh word for that feeling is "hiraeth". A comfortable sense belonging there and a yearning to return. When I'm traveling in Wales, I hardly need a map. I never feel lost. Strange. Nice. I regret that Marxism and socialism have taken hold of Welsh society via the blue collar unions...principally the miners. Plaid Cymru (Welsh Party) is steeped in socialism. My love of the land and language is tempered by my intolerance for socialism.

Wales is a wonderful place to visit. I recommend the museums in Cardiff, including the Museum of Welsh Family Life. Carmarthen is a beautiful city too. The wool mill at Felinfoel Felindre is worth a day trip. I usually hang at at a bed and breakfast in Aberystwyth and visit friends and family in Cwmystwyth, Ysbty Ystwyth, Llanfihangel y Creuddyn and Devil's Bridge. The ruins of the monastery at Strada Florida is interesting as well. Enroute to the monastery, you pass through Pontrhydfendigaid. That little village is nearly all Welsh speakers. My cousins run a gift shop at Pontrhydygroes. It is down the hill from my great-great grandfathers house.

If you really like good Indian food, check out the Light of Asia restaurant in Aberystwyth. The chicken paloo is excellent.

Pob Hwyl!

19 posted on 04/18/2003 9:36:33 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: solzhenitsyn
In my circle, we often use the words monoglot and polyglot. My company was sending me to multiple foreign countries. That afforded opportunities develop limited proficiency in French, German, Welsh and Turkish. I was only scheduled for 3 days in Italy, so hacked Spanish was adequate. I'll add Polish if there is a clear possiblity that the U.S. troops in Germany will be relocated there. That is going to be a stretch :-)
20 posted on 04/18/2003 9:42:48 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: PoisedWoman
O ble rydychi yn dod?
21 posted on 04/18/2003 9:44:34 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
The young Welsh actor Ioan Gruffudd (A&E's Horatio Hornblower, PBS's Forsyth Saga) grew up speaking both Welsh and English, since his parents are both teachers of the Welsh language. Ioan was in a Welsh-speaking daytime drama for many years. Now he's gaining fame both as an actor and spokesman for Welsh culture.
22 posted on 04/18/2003 9:53:57 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: Ciexyz
I enjoy watching BBC4 when visiting Wales. I can catch the news from native speakers. For a written web page form, see link
23 posted on 04/18/2003 10:10:26 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Ciexyz
Speaking of Ioan Gruffudd, see this web page. Ioan apparently plays a part on a popular sitcom call Pobol y Cwm.
24 posted on 04/18/2003 10:14:10 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
Bump for those links. I have to admit, it's fascinating to see the Welsh language in writing. And to hear it spoken, it's such a lovely and lyrical language.

Speaking of things Welsh, let's give a nod to Dylan Thomas, and "How Green Was My Valley".

25 posted on 04/18/2003 10:27:50 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: blam
In a red-brick farmhouse in the Patagonian village of Gaiman....

So is "Gaiman" a Welsh name? I admire the comic book writings and horror novels of the British author Neil Gaiman ("Sandman"). I wondered about his name, whether he made it up because maybe it was a hidden joke that he was gay. Not that I know anything (or care) about his sexual preference. I was just afraid to say his name to people, that I read Neil Gaiman, because they might think it was a gay novel.

26 posted on 04/18/2003 10:33:15 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: Ciexyz
Also recommended is "Hedd Wynn". You can get a copy from Sain Recordiau. I paid an extra 5 pounds to have my copy converted from PAL to NTSC. The audio on my copy is Welsh with English subtitles if you have trouble following it. All English audio versions are available too. Hedd Wynn is the bardic name of a young Welsh farmer who sought to win the chair awarded at the national competition for poets. He was conscripted into the Royal Army and ended up sending his submission from the battlefield in France. I won't spoil the ending for those who wish to watch the movie.
27 posted on 04/18/2003 10:38:55 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
I ordered a strange little gem of a movie on ebay, titled "Happy Now", starring Ioan Gruffudd as a police inspector investigating a murder in a small Welsh town. It's interesting to me as an American to hear the Welsh accents in the film.
28 posted on 04/18/2003 10:42:54 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: Ciexyz
My cousins in Pontrhydygroes speak English, but you can discern a little pause as they formulate it. Welsh is their native language. I was practicing Welsh and singing in the language with such regularity that I started picking up a Welsh accent. It doesn't persist unless I'm using it daily.

The leader singer from Plethyn, Linda Healy, just released a new CD in March 2003. I just spotted the announcement on the Sain site. Linda sings and speaks in the mid-valleys dialect that was spoken by my family before them emigrated to the U.S.

29 posted on 04/18/2003 11:14:21 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
Whatever you asked, I don't think so.... :>)

I just discovered my Welsh roots a couple of years ago, thanks in part to meeting a distant cousin at FR on another thread about Wales. I then went to one of the online genealogy sites and within fifteen minutes discovered a second cousin who has done an enormous amount of work on the family tree who had been looking for me for twenty years. Imagine that! I learned that we have a huge clan here in the western states and met about 50 relatives at a reunion. One of my closer cousins, who bears the Kidwell name (I do not), is Justice of the Supreme Court of Idaho, though we have yet to meet.

I plan to visit Wales, perhaps next year, and take a look at Kidwelly, from whence the Thomas and Kidwell ancestors departed in 1621. I'd love to learn to at least pronounce the language.

I did fall madly in love with the first Welsh Corgi I met, bought a pair and raised two lovely litters long before I realized my Welsh connection. Funny what clings to the DNA.

I ejoyed reading through your posts on this thread. If you have a Welsh ping list, please add my name.
30 posted on 04/19/2003 12:29:34 AM PDT by PoisedWoman (Fed up with the CORRUPT liberal media)
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis
There are Irish settlements in Patagonian also. And they were more than glad to fight the Brits in the Falklands. I remember reading a article where the Irish fought harder than any of the Argentine troops, this according to a Brit commander.

Let's not forget that legendary Argentine of Irish and Basque heritage Ernesto Guevara LYNCH.

31 posted on 04/19/2003 4:09:54 PM PDT by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: PoisedWoman
O ble rydychi yn dod? (From where do you come?). Mae fyn heulu dod o Aberystwyth yn Cymru. (My family comes from Aberystwyth in Wales). There is an organization in North America is offers courses in Welsh. Their website can be found here. I corresponded via e-mail for months with Mark Nodine as he crafted a Welsh lexicon. My contribution was to help him make a great tool run lightning fast.

Welsh geneology that goes back further than 1754 becomes challenging. It was in that year that the English forced the Welsh to take surnames. Prior to that time, you needed about 4 generations of patronymic association and typically the name of the house where the family resided.

Welsh is totally phonetic. What you see is what you say. The rules are very simple. The single most difficult sound for native English speakers to master is the "ll" in Welsh. The closest approximation is to run together the sounds of "th" in "think" followed by the letter "L". Pronounce "llan" as "thlan" with a strong aspiration. The Welsh letter "NG" is pronounced just as in the trailing letters of the English word "song". It is nasal. It also makes for interesting search in the dictionary collating order. The Welsh letter "ch" is pronounced in a more gutteral fashion than the German or Scottish (Bach or loch). English speakers get tripped up on words that begin with "ch" as in "chimod". It's pretty easy on a trailing syllable.

Good luck in your linguistic travels.

32 posted on 04/19/2003 7:48:31 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
Thanks to everyone for posting all those interesting links. As for learning Welsh, all I know is one word: Cymru. At least that's a start!

Another Welsh video that's available in the states: Ioan Gruffudd's "Solomon and Gaenor", which was nominated for best foreign film at the Oscars several years ago. It was also shown at a number of Jewish film festivals across the US. (I followed all this on some of the Ioan sites on the Net.)

Also, I'm looking forward to seeing the two new Horatio Hornblower films (four hours total) on A&E sometime this year.

33 posted on 04/19/2003 9:10:39 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: Myrddin
Prior to that time, you needed about 4 generations of patronymic association and typically the name of the house where the family resided.

Interesting. Perhaps everyone who came from Kidwelly was named Kidwell...? The name showed up on passenger list of boat that left in 1621.

Thanks for the language lesson and links. I hope to have time to explore at depth.

34 posted on 04/20/2003 9:22:58 AM PDT by PoisedWoman (Fed up with the CORRUPT liberal media)
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To: blam
bump.
35 posted on 11/07/2003 7:28:09 PM PST by blam
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Note: this topic is from April 18, 2003. Blast from the Past.

Thanks blam.

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


36 posted on 04/21/2012 5:34:43 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Myrddin

Wow... What a fascinating thread. What’s the relationship between Welsh and the other Celtic or Gaelic languages? Similar? Derivative?


37 posted on 04/21/2012 8:22:51 AM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: Myrddin; blam; All

I have a small, brass, door knocker that pictures a woman in traditional Welsh costume (tall hat, long skirt) and says “Bettws-y-coed” across the top and “Wales” across the bottom. Can anybody translate?


38 posted on 04/21/2012 8:40:53 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Betws-y-coed is a lovely little village in the hills of north Wales. I was there in 1988.


39 posted on 04/21/2012 9:06:21 AM PDT by Last of the Mohicans
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To: Last of the Mohicans

Thank you! So it’s a PLACE! I’ve been asking Brits (including those of Welsh descent) for a translation for over 25 years. I bought that door knocker in an antique store about 30 years ago. I can’t remember where, but it could have been in Canada. I used to collect door knockers until I ran out of doors.


40 posted on 04/21/2012 10:04:52 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Ramius
Celtic languages are in two branches. The Goidelic branch includes Irish Gaelic, Scots Gaelic and Manx (Isle of Man). The Brythonic branch includes Welsh, Breton (spoken in Brittany in the NW of France) and Kornish (spoken around Cornwall). Modern Welsh exists in 3 common dialects. The northern and southern are most common. My family spoke the "mid-valleys" dialect. An example of how different they are:
How are you?
Northern (Sut dach chi?),
Southern (Sut rydy chi?),
mid-Valleys (Shw mae?)
41 posted on 04/21/2012 7:41:32 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Betws is nominally "chapel". Coed is "trees". The meaning is roughly the chapel in the trees. Most Welsh places names have a descriptive element. The word "Aber" means "mouth" as in the mouth of a river. The cities Aberystwyth (mouth of the Ystwyth river), Abertawe (mouth of the Towy river) and Aberaeron (mouth of the river Aeron). Pen-y-bont desribes a village and the "end of the bridge". Pont-y-Pridd describes a bridge made of an earthen dam. Pontrhyygroes describes a bridge that fords a river at a cross roads. My great grandfather came from Ysbty Ystwyth which is a village where hospital was located along the Ystwyth river.
42 posted on 04/21/2012 7:47:06 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: blam
There is also a large settlement of Welsh in Malad, ID. It is the largest concentration of people of Welsh ancestry outside of Wales itself.

The program for the annual Welsh Festival is at the link.

43 posted on 04/21/2012 7:53:39 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin

Fascinating! Thanks for the info.


44 posted on 04/21/2012 9:14:58 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Spotted a misspelling. (pont)(rhyd)y(groes) literally (bridge)(ford)(cross)..Pontrhydygoes. Pronounced: Pont Rid' uh groys.

The "forts" in Wales share Caer as a prefix.

Many cities bear the name Fairfield. I was traveling through Wales one afternoon and observed the name "Maesteg". That is the Welsh version. (maes - field) (teg - fair).

If you understand both Welsh and French, the Breton language appears as a mix of the two.


45 posted on 04/21/2012 11:28:04 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
Thanks for all your inputs.

This is great.

46 posted on 04/22/2012 6:40:05 AM PDT by blam
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To: MikalM; blam; SunkenCiv; All

My grandfather was born in the shadow of Conway Castle. I am told one of his grandparents was from The Isle of Man. So I am 1/4th Welsh and 1/16th Manx. No tail though.

I saw an interesting report on the Aboriginal languages of Australia. It said that once there were 200 but now only about 20, but there is a new revival going on.


47 posted on 04/22/2012 8:35:24 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: Myrddin

I’ll bet they immigrated there to be shepherds same as the Basque


48 posted on 04/22/2012 8:54:27 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: gleeaikin
"I am told one of his grandparents was from The Isle of Man. So I am 1/4th Welsh and 1/16th Manx"

Ellan Vannin

49 posted on 04/22/2012 10:07:48 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Wow. Talk about 'the middle of no where', Puerto Madryn is it. Heck Patagonia itself is remote (and kind of barren) to begin with and his place is in the middle of that (though on the ocean).

An aside: Ever since I was a kid in the 50's 'Patagonia' fascinated me. Maybe it's just the name??? Really, say 'Patagonia' over and over and over -- it's cool :-)

Then again, 'Outer Mongolia'(which no longer 'exists') fascinated me too but saying that over and over really doesn't have the same affect. Hmmm?? Maybe I just liked really weird places out in the middle of no where.

yes I was excellent in Geography. I had a huge world map on my bedroom wall I 'studied' almost every night.

50 posted on 04/23/2012 4:50:47 AM PDT by Condor51 (Yo Hoffa, so you want to 'take out conservatives'. Well okay Jr - I'm your Huckleberry)
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