About Objectivism

Objectivist Center ^ | 2/2002

[unspun]

This from a CHRIST-ian, the ultimate in cult of personality.

When you accept the ultimate personality, it explains why such a thing as a "cult of personality" exists (and why it is the only successful kind of cult).

[rwfromkansas]

I read Anthem and quite frankly, it is nothing but a atheist, self-exalted individualist piece of drivel.

Rand had some problems.

[unspun]

Now now, don't be nasty.

[rwfromkansas]

Right.

[B-Chan]

In my limited experience those who write about:

-- "a certain type of suburban nerd"
-- "the kind of kid who thinks he's a Heroic Loner, because none of the cheerleaders will date him"
-- "Kids like this whom I've known tended to spend a lot of time in their rooms smoking pot and reading too much into prog-rock lyrics."

Are looking into a:

-- Mirror mirror on the wall, can B-chan be the loveliest projectionist of them all?

Not guilty, your honor. I was reasonably popular in high school, dated quite a bit (several cheerleaders, too), and didn't really get into smoking pot until I was in college (I've always preferred good old-fashioned liquor to the various other intoxicants). I admit to liking Rush for a brief time during my skool daze, but I soon grew out of my fascination with Randian prog-rock, and was in fact well-known around town as the resident punk rocker. I admit to being a hopeless Trekkie in the days of my youth, but Rand? I read her. It didn't "take".

[Anamensis]

I'm sorry, I can't parse your sentence. Can you put it another way?

[A.J.Armitage]

Objectivists would rob people of their right to decide what kind of a society they are to live in, and that makes them anti-freedom.

I'd like to live in a libertarian society composed of Calvinists.

Will you agree, or attempt to rob me of my right to decide what kind of society to live in?

[unspun]

I'm sorry, I can't parse your sentence. Can you put it another way?

I think it should, if you read it objectively, without reading anything into the words (using "cult" here as in its basic root meaning, a group of people who worship together/similarly).

[unspun]

It should be quite "parsable" I mean.

[B-Chan]

Rush drummer/lyricist Neal Peart Was (and could still be; I dunno) a proponent of Objectivism. Their album 2112 is a rock-opera rendtion of the struggle between a future collectivist Brotherhood of Man and the rationalist/romantic "Elder Race" who return to Earth in their spaceships to overthrow the whim-worshiping Priests of the Temples of Syrinx and the hated Red Star banner. Ayn Rand would've given it a 98 on "Objectivist Bandstand".

[tpaine]

You seem to have this weird idea that I care.

-- Sorry bout that.

[unspun]

I hope she wouldn't have danced to it with her "girlfriend," though.

[rwfromkansas]

Sounds cool to me. But don't run to a horrible woman like Rand to try to justify what is already something you should be able to do.

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[longshadow]

He didn't base his arguments on the idea that Communism is immoral, etc. He just said that it was broken in that it would fail miserably to accomplish it's ends for various systemic reasons that he explains in great detail.

Well, just for the record, I am an admirer of von Mises, as well as Rand.

There's nothing wrong with a pragmatic indictment of Communism, per se. The trouble is that the pragmatic argument fails if they manage to hold things together (Mainland China comes to mind). Rand, OTOH, provides a powerful moral argument against Communism (or any form of totalitarianism) that is immune to the vulnerabilities of the pragmatic argument.

On balance, I think there's a great deal we can learn from both Rand AND von Mises.

[tacticalogic]

Thanks for the ping. I'll have to take some time later and read through it.

[mikegi]

Kids like this whom I've known tended to spend a lot of time in their rooms, smoking pot and reading too much into prog-rock lyrics. When the decades-spanning career of Rush draws to a close, I suspect the ranks of Randfandom will similarly diminish.

Trash Rand all you want ... but trash Rush, now you've gone way too far!

Sic transit gloria mundi.

In my limited experience, using Latin phrases in a post tends to appeal to a certain type of suburban blowhard -- the kind of person who honestly believes he dated cheerleaders and was really cool.

[Hank Kerchief]

I said:
***Rand ... was wrong because she rejected the collective (the concept that the group is more important than the individual)... ***
You said:
***Your are right, or would be, if Rand actually said this. ***
Rand did reject the collective. How am I wrong?

I quote you, (again), "she rejected the collective (the concept that the group is more important than the individual)".

You are wrong because Rand did not consider the group to have any importance at all. There is no question in Objectivism of which is more importat, the individual or the group. With regard to the concept importance, a group is irrelevant, unless an individual has some personal goal or objective with regard to a group (is forming a football team, for example), and then the importance of the group is derived entirely from the intentions and purposes of the individual.

Hank

[sasportas]

Every Rand fan I know is a God-hater. Are all you Rand fans atheists also?

I haven't read her, don't think I am going to. Someone here described her book as ...

"atheistic, self-exalted individualist piece of drivel."

That's all I need to know. And she hated Communism? That's like the pot calling the kettle black.

[longshadow]

That's all I need to know.

It's always interesting to meet someone whose intellectual curiosity is so easily sated....