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Support Growing For UAV Patrols Of US/Mexican Border
UAV Online ^ | 22 April, 2003

Posted on 04/23/2003 1:50:05 PM PDT by 11th_VA

Before long, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) may be patrolling the US borders to protect against intruders of any type.

‘I am extremely supportive of the idea,’ said Rep. John Shadegg (R-Ariz.), a member of the newly created Homeland Security Committee and chairman of a subcommittee that will have a major say in what kinds of equipment will be pressed into service.

Shadegg said two recent visits to the Mexican border underscored for him that ‘we don't have anything approaching control of that border.’ Support for putting electronic eyes in the sky is building in Congress, he said.

Senator John Warner (R-Va.), chairman of the Armed Service Committee, wrote to President Bush recently saying the case for non-military use of UAVs is ‘compelling’.

Currently the Mexican border is sporadically patrolled by fixed-wing aircraft and Black Hawk helicopters, which Shadegg said pose disadvantages of costly operation, limited range and relatively short periods for staying aloft.

‘High tech, including drones, is precisely where we should be going,’ Shadegg said.

As chairman of the emergency preparedness and response subcommittee, ‘I want to put all my energy into looking at high-tech ways to stop incidents from occurring, or detect them the instant they occur,’ such as in cases of sabotage of water supplies or unleashing of chemical agents, he said.

After testing drones in south Texas during the late 1990s, Border Patrol officials decided against using them. But Asa Hutchinson, the nation's top border security official in Homeland Security, told Congress last month, ‘I think that we have to revisit some of this technology since September 11th and see if it has greater application.’

You're going to see more personnel, but also . . . more high-technology equipment down on the border,’ Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.), said at a news conference this month.

‘You may see unmanned drones.’

Shadegg wouldn't predict how soon UAV patrols could be launched but said, ‘If we can build enough support for them, I think they could be up pretty quick.’

(Source: The Arizona Republic)


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: borderhawk; borderpatrol; homelandsecurity; illegalimmigration; johnwarner; uav
I'm sure the ACLU will be up in arms about this ...
1 posted on 04/23/2003 1:50:06 PM PDT by 11th_VA
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To: madfly; Tancredo Fan
ping.
2 posted on 04/23/2003 1:51:40 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: Marine Inspector
ping 2 u 2
3 posted on 04/23/2003 1:52:22 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: 11th_VA
Don't forget the hellfires. No point in patrolling if you can't do the stopping as well. That ought to be a sight, a drone with missiles tracking you as you approach the Rio Grande. Go ahead, make my day.

Bet that would cut down on illegal immigration and drug traffic.
4 posted on 04/23/2003 1:54:25 PM PDT by snooker
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To: 11th_VA
ACLU, my butt, El Presidente Fox, himself will complain to Bush, the UN and the Pope. The Mexicans believe that it is not appropriate for the US to take any action that prevents Mexicans from moving freely into the US.

They come here, get a job, and send money home. Fox, his friends, his family, and his party members all get a ccut of that money, now estimated at between 8-10 billion US dollars a year, not including the drug money. We must do something about the six million illegal alien criminals amomgst us. Their cost to our society is extraordinary, far, far greater than the estimates of the democrats who buy thier votes at election time.

5 posted on 04/23/2003 1:57:02 PM PDT by Tacis
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To: 11th_VA
Finding the border crossers is not such a problem as flushing them back to the sewer whence they came.
From what I read, sometimes it is a problem to get our lawmen do act.
6 posted on 04/23/2003 1:57:50 PM PDT by Lion Den Dan
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To: snooker
The Hellfires were my thought too, so I'll second your motion.
7 posted on 04/23/2003 1:58:39 PM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: Tacis
The Mexicans believe that it is not appropriate for the US to take any action that prevents Mexicans from moving freely into the US.

Translation: The Mexican government believes it is not appropriate for the US to prevent Mexico from shipping their poor into our country, making them OUR problem instead of their's.

8 posted on 04/23/2003 1:59:42 PM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: 11th_VA
Shucks! At first I thought it said LAV's (Light Armored Vehicles).
9 posted on 04/23/2003 2:00:15 PM PDT by BobinIL
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To: 11th_VA
stop incidents from occurring, or detect them the instant they occur,’ such as in cases of sabotage of water supplies or unleashing of chemical agents,

Why can no one bring themselves to say the obvious. How politically incorrect can this logical statement be.

"We want to stop illegal entry into the United States."

10 posted on 04/23/2003 2:01:44 PM PDT by Amerigomag
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To: Amerigomag
I'm really surprised that this tech has not yet been incorporated. About time. This won't stop it, but it should significantly slow it down.
11 posted on 04/23/2003 2:06:56 PM PDT by AMNZ
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To: 11th_VA
Will they be armed with machine guns to show we mean business?They probably won't so they will show we DON'T MEAN BUSINESS!You know,just like we always have.
12 posted on 04/23/2003 2:10:28 PM PDT by INSENSITIVE GUY
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To: Black Agnes
Sounds good to me.
13 posted on 04/23/2003 2:11:18 PM PDT by Marine Inspector (DHS BCBP II)
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To: AMNZ
This won't stop it, but it should significantly slow it down.

For a short time.

Here's the rub. It will not take long for people to realize that while we have the capability to indentify illegal entry we have neither the will nor the manpower to stop it.

"Who cares if they're watching us since they won't stop us" will be the mantra within 6 months.

Surveillance won't stop it. The revolving door of deportation won't stop it. We can't afford to incarcerate the offenders. Our society won't tolerate death as a meaningful deterent.

Short of death, denial of the public infrastructure and constitutional rights to both the illegal entrant AND their immediate progeny is the only vehicle that will stem the flow.

Revisiting California's Proposition 187 and a reexamination of the 14th Amendment are long overdue.

14 posted on 04/23/2003 2:50:37 PM PDT by Amerigomag
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To: AMNZ
,,,Before long, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) may be patrolling the US borders to protect against intruders of any type....

I had thought about offering my services as a pilot to patrol the Mex border. I could put 5 pilots and 5 Cessna 152's along that border for 1/2 million a year.
Then I decided that our govenment does not want to stop them. They are our source of cheap labor. Its keeps wages down and therefore keeps inflation down. Plus it keeps our population growing which keeps housing prices up.
People had better hope our population does not backslide. Just think, more houses than people. What happens when supply outruns demand?
Lee308

15 posted on 04/23/2003 2:53:15 PM PDT by Lee308
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To: 11th_VA
Great news!! LET'S ROLL!
16 posted on 04/23/2003 11:27:42 PM PDT by I_Love_My_Husband
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To: Free the USA; B4Ranch; FITZ; Reaganwuzthebest; hsmomx3; Tancredo Fan; Joe Hadenuf; 4Freedom; ...
The following is from the "Testimony of Ben L. Anderson Jr., Col US Army Retired, submitted to U.S. Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources, March 10, 2003" held in Sells, AZ that Mr. Shadegg attended.

Basic suggested concepts include, but are not limited to -
 
The security of the U.S. border should be accomplished with a combination of Border Patrol, selected regular Military, National Guard & Reserve and a little innovation.
 
The Border Patrol should apprehend, process and repatriate illegal aliens in accordance with their mission.
 
The National Guard & Reserves assume those logistic and maintenance functions  (transportation – truck and bus driving, vehicle maintenance, communications and administrative tasks, house keeping tasks, etc.) to free up Border Patrol personnel to concentrate on their basic mission.
 
The regular military provides high tech reconnaissance, surveillance & scouting with manned aircraft and UAVs, monitoring of remote areas, air-lift, and selected units to secure remote areas of the border.  The border mission will provide an excellent training opportunity.   Most importantly, the border mission is a national security mission.  
 
Some more innovative concepts include - 
 
1. Ultra-light aircraft.   Ultra-light aircraft would be appropriate for daytime missions.  Ultra-lights are inexpensive (cost less than current Border Patrol SUVs), low maintenance, require only limited training (do not require an FAA pilots license), and fly low & slow allowing for excellent tracking of illegal activity.  They can be either single or double occupant and would allow for a dedicated pilot and tracker.  They are available for purchase in Arizona.
 
2. Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs).  UAVs that are in the current inventory provide the nighttime continuation of the daytime mission, yet with advanced high-tech all-weather and limited visibility sensors to acquire and track infiltrating illegal movement.  
 
Both ultra-lights and UAVs can complement each other with reverse cycle maintenance: Ultra-light maintenance at night and UAV maintenance during the day.   All UAVs would be stationed and operate from Ft. Huachuca.  Ultra-lights would be ground transported to the area of use.  State of the art light-weight high-tech communications and position locating systems can be easily installed in proposed ultra-light.
 

3. Native American Border Patrol Augmentation.   A dedicated Native American Border Patrol augmentation would be an excellent way of capitalizing the unique and honored traditional skills of our Native American citizens.  Their time honored skills at tracking and outdoor skills can be tapped to the nation’s advantage. They should be employed as trackers working in conjunction with US military, Border Patrol, ultra-lights and UAVs.  A military occupation specialty (MOS) type training program could provide structure to the concept.  Entrusting them with our national borders would be a compliment to their heritage along the line of the “Code Talkers” of WW II.  A name for consideration would be “Border Stalkers”.  It might be that this new opportunity would provide a needed and well-deserved niche for the Native American community beyond what is currently available.  Currently such a concept is in place with the “Shadow Wolves” of the U.S. Customs Service on the Tohono O'Odham Reservation in southern Arizona.
The Shadow Wolves unit is composed solely of Native Americans of Blackfoot, Cheyenne and Pima tribes who are known for their uncanny ability to track aliens and the drugs they may carry.

17 posted on 04/24/2003 10:00:37 AM PDT by madfly (AdultChildrenOfLegalImmigrants.org)
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To: Lee308
Then I decided that our govenment does not want to stop them. They are our source of cheap labor. Its keeps wages down and therefore keeps inflation down.

You forgot the most obvious. All these companies that work the illegals are giving big time donations to politicians - both sides - I think a little heavier on the Republican side. I got that from our President's attitude from day one and his relationship with El Presidente Fox. Money talks.

If you owned a big chicken processing company and you had to pay mininum wage or better, workman's comp, match SS, provide healthcare, etc. - then they realized they could get workers for less wages, no strings, no responsibilities if they are hurt - no nothing. The taxpayers would provide all the responsibility and upkeep of them - now how much would you donate (in every way possible) to politicians to make sure that situation stayed in place? If you are the politicians getting all this money - and there are ways around campaign finance- would you risk loosing that money and having to depend on $25 donations to finance your campaigns and keep you in office?

We have to realize there are many reasons they come here - there is only one they stay - our government is unwilling to enforce the laws we already have on the books.

18 posted on 04/24/2003 10:36:23 AM PDT by nanny
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To: 11th_VA
Comments from Ben Anderson:

Shadagg is a fake.
 
He does NOT support the Military on the border.  He is one of the "Cheap Labor" crowd.
 
Talks out of both sides of his mouth.
 
This is a very safe stance for him.
 
It would be nice if it happened
 
Question is --- Why has it not happened long ago?
 
Consider the fact that Ft. Huachuca is the test bed location for UAVs and is itself being overrun by Illegal Aliens.
 
Ft. Huachuca is right on the border and in Cochise County --- the perfect location for testing and operations.
 
Something fishy here ....

19 posted on 04/24/2003 11:06:41 AM PDT by madfly (AdultChildrenOfLegalImmigrants.org)
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To: madfly
The security of the U.S. border should be accomplished with a combination of Border Patrol, selected regular Military, National Guard & Reserve and a little innovation.

Another military officer, General Franks said something the other day to the effect that any nation who wants to control its borders can. Hint hint... even the military is trying to wake up our government now to the dangers of open borders. Somebody needs to.

20 posted on 04/24/2003 11:08:43 AM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Lee308
Then I decided that our govenment does not want to stop them. They are our source of cheap labor. Its keeps wages down and therefore keeps inflation down. Plus it keeps our population growing which keeps housing prices up. >>>>>>

My small town is LOADED with such cheap labor, and one of
our major employers just loves it. They pay barely living wages to all, and health coverage on employee's who will
sacrifice to PAY their part.

The hispanic's meanwhile are having litters of kids to quailfy for food stamps & free healthcare, and living better
than the "middle class" Americans.

While losing about 1,000 TAXPAYERS from 1990-2000 (pop. now
abt 18,000) residents have now been told we need to build TWO more elementary schools to accomodate these litters of children that we are already feeding and keeping healthy.
In five years it will be TWO more middle schools, then of course another high school.

Who's coming out ahead ?? The hispanic's & their kids, and
the NO. 1 retailer, who pays LOW wages, and no health care costs on more than half of their employees here.
21 posted on 04/24/2003 11:31:30 AM PDT by txdoda ("Navy-brat")
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To: 11th_VA
I'm sure the ACLU will be up in arms about this ... >>>>>

Natually, if the ACLU objets to it, it's usually something GREAT for the AMERICANS.

They need to change their name to ANYONE'S CLU.....
22 posted on 04/24/2003 11:34:57 AM PDT by txdoda ("Navy-brat")
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Another military officer, General Franks said something the other day to the effect that any nation who wants to control its borders can. Hint hint... even the military is trying to wake up our government now to the dangers of open borders. Somebody needs to.

I got the same reaction from General Franks' comment and I'm glad he made it. Unfortunately, Bush has made it inordinately clear that he WILL NOT defend our borders from this epic invasion of millions under ANY circumstances.

This dereliction of duty along with his disastrous trade policies will likely make Bush's re-election prospects every bit the horse race that the last election was.

23 posted on 04/24/2003 12:43:36 PM PDT by WRhine
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To: WRhine
bttt
24 posted on 04/24/2003 3:25:38 PM PDT by madfly (AdultChildrenOfLegalImmigrants.org)
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To: ME4W
fyi
25 posted on 04/24/2003 3:26:03 PM PDT by madfly (AdultChildrenOfLegalImmigrants.org)
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To: madfly
As far as I am concerned they can use B-1-B's with cluster bombs.
26 posted on 04/24/2003 5:35:30 PM PDT by Brownie74
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To: WRhine
If immigration becomes a topic in the race then Bush may have a difficult time explaining why after 9/11 the borders are still so open. But the democrats won't call him on that, they're even worse, and neither will the press.

Sure wish Tancredo would run then maybe we'd be get some much needed discussion regarding this issue.

27 posted on 04/24/2003 6:48:03 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Brownie74
As far as I am concerned they can use B-1-B's with cluster bombs.

We can't do that Brownie, think of all those grasshoppers and cactuses who might get injured or destroyed. And heaven forbid we wouldn't want to impede the free movement of the poor field rodents now would we?

28 posted on 04/24/2003 6:57:51 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: 11th_VA
UAV's can't make arrests. We need people on the ground enforcing laws already in place - or at least someone somewhere who's willing to act on whatever pictures the UAV's send back. Any sign of a political will to do these very basic things?
29 posted on 04/24/2003 7:03:59 PM PDT by Puddleglum
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
If immigration becomes a topic in the race then Bush may have a difficult time explaining why after 9/11 the borders are still so open. But the democrats won't call him on that, they're even worse, and neither will the press.

I agree. What could sink Bush though is the economy and his handling of it.

I couldn't help but notice today during Bush’s speech on his economic package that he never once brought up the FTAA (Free Trade Americas) deal that he has been pushing so hard for behind the scenes. In fact I have never heard him once bring up FTAA during a speech about the economy. I have to ask WHY? I mean if FTAA is such a good deal for America, like Bush has suggested in the past, why would he not bring up this latest free trade proposal that builds on the NAFTA deal (that his Dad still brags about) when he is talking about economic cures?

I suspect Bush knows well that most Americans don't want anymore Free Trade deals. At least the kind we have seen in the last 10 years and for good reason. We associate them with massive job losses and the destruction of American Industry all of which makes me wonder then...why is he still pushing for FTAA then?

30 posted on 04/24/2003 9:34:21 PM PDT by WRhine
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To: WRhine
U.S. Wants Quick Ag Deals with Brazil

Wednesday, April 23, 2003

Snow said the FTAA negotiations are a priority despite possible political ramifications for President Bush in Florida and California, the nation's top orange producers and key states for a Bush victory in next year's presidential election.

Brazil: Less talk, more U.S. trade action - Wash. Times

31 posted on 04/25/2003 8:34:06 AM PDT by madfly (AdultChildrenOfLegalImmigrants.org)
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To: WRhine
Very few politicians talk openly anymore about these so-called free trade deals, they're scams meant for one purpose, to make big corporations richer.

How do they help me anyway? I can purchase frozen apple or orange concentrate made from fruit grown in Brazil or China at the local wholesale outlet for .69 to.79 cents. Big deal. I can get that product for the same price when the fruit is grown here, always have, even before we started flooding the market with fruit from other countries.

The price hasn't gone down, but the cost of labor has, so that means the CEOs get those big bonuses. And they contribute nicely to the coffers of politicians elected to represent the people. If American farmers go out of business, who cares? These trade deals aren't even doing anything to stop the illegal alien flow. Like I said, it's a scam, and everyone knows it.

32 posted on 04/25/2003 9:36:49 AM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
The price hasn't gone down, but the cost of labor has, so that means the CEOs get those big bonuses. And they contribute nicely to the coffers of politicians elected to represent the people. If American farmers go out of business, who cares? These trade deals aren't even doing anything to stop the illegal alien flow. Like I said, it's a scam, and everyone knows it.

You know, a cynical person could call this cozy relationship between CEOs and Politicians "Feather Bedding". It's interesting how our politicos can, by the stroke of a pen, "Make Legal" exactly the same kind of hanky panky activity that would land the average businessman in jail.

I agree with every point you made. Slowly but Surely America is moving from being a "nation of laws" to a "nation of political rulers".

33 posted on 04/25/2003 12:01:48 PM PDT by WRhine
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To: madfly
bttt
34 posted on 04/25/2003 12:02:58 PM PDT by WRhine
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To: madfly; Free the USA; B4Ranch; FITZ; Reaganwuzthebest; hsmomx3; Tancredo Fan; Joe Hadenuf; ...
All that is being suggested is ok, but nothing is going to solve it until one thing happens.

Implement OPLAN GARDEN PLOT!

NOW!

The ACLU, M.E.Ch.A., NAACP, RANBOW-PUSH, Amnesty International, U.N., or anyone else's self sanctimonious opinion be DAMNED! Just do it! Seal the frigging border.

35 posted on 04/26/2003 6:25:10 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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