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Tacoma police chief shoots wife, kills himself
Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^

Posted on 04/27/2003 12:54:50 PM PDT by ATCNavyRetiree

Tacoma police chief shoots wife, kills himself

By LEWIS KAMB, PHUONG CAT LE, ANGELA GALLOWAY and RUTH TEICHROEB SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTERS

GIG HARBOR - Tacoma's police chief shot his wife and then himself in the parking lot of a strip mall Saturday afternoon while the couple's two young children were nearby.

David Brame died at St. Joseph's Hospital in Tacoma about 6 p.m. His wife Crystal was in critical condition at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle.

On Friday, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer reported that Crystal Brame, 35, had obtained a temporary restraining order in February against her husband. In subsequent court papers, she had accused him of pointing his service revolver at her and trying to choke her during two separate incidents in the past six months.

The couple were going through a divorce.

Brame, a veteran officer who rose through the ranks to become chief in January 2002, denied those allegations in court papers filed in King County Superior Court last month.

Saturday's shooting happened at about 3:10 p.m., said Pierce County sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer.

"We don't believe other people are involved," Troyer said. "The victims were the chief of the Tacoma Police Department and his wife. We believe he shot her and then shot himself."

Crystal Brame was in a black Toyota Camry with the couple's two children when David Brame approached the vehicle, authorities said. The two had arranged to meet in the shopping mall parking lot. David Brame took the two children - 8-year-old Haley and 5-year-old David - to his burgundy Toyota Camry, which was parked nearby. He then returned to the car Crystal Brame was in. He got in also and a short time later two shots were fired, authorities said.

NOTE: This story has been updated since it was originally posted.

"The kids were screaming," said Kirsten Oakland, who works in a hair salon at the mall. "Who would have thought? Awful. This affected the entire community in a split second."

An off-duty King County paramedic was the first to arrive on the scene and begin treatment.

"It appeared she (Crystal) managed to open the door and fell down to the ground," Troyer said. "And the paramedic pulled up right next to her in the car."

Neither child was hurt. They were with their mother's parents Saturday night, Troyer said.

George Sharp, a supervisor for the Rite Aid store, said almost nobody in the store actually heard the shooting. Many learned of it from customers and employees coming in for their shifts who had learned about the shooting from news reports.

"A lot of people expressed shock that it did happen in Gig Harbor and the customers and the employees wish that it hadn't happened but they didn't really feel any more threatened as they would if it were a drive-by or it were a random act," Sharp said.

"I think that people are saddened it got to that stage and unhappy that it happened here, and unhappy that it happened at all."

Troyer said one of the Brame children got out of the car and went into a nearby Hollywood Video store. Witnesses took the other child to the store too.

Jesse Hentz, assistant manager of the Hollywood Video, said: "I feel really bad. And I want the family to know that people care about them."

In court papers, Crystal Brame portrayed her husband as controlling and jealous, refusing to let her use their credit card without permission and checking her car's odometer to monitor trips to the grocery store.

She also accused him of leaving his loaded service revolver on a bedroom shelf within reach of their two children.

Her fear increased last November when she alleged that the 44-year-old Brame "choked me and threatened that he could snap my neck if he wanted to." It was the fourth time that year he'd tried to choke her, each time sending flowers later to apologize, she said.

And just before they separated in February, she alleged in court documents that Brame pointed his service revolver at her, "telling me 'accidents happen.' "

She did not report either incident to police.

David Brame had maintained he was the real victim of domestic violence during his 11-year marriage. He said he reported the assaults to police -- first to his boss, then-interim Chief Ken Monner and to an officer who photographed his bruises; then to police in Gig Harbor, where he was living at the time.

Both times David Brame insisted that police not arrest his wife or even investigate his allegations - even though a state law requires officers to arrest anyone accused of domestic violence if the complaint is credible.

He explained his unusual behavior in court documents by saying he wanted to "protect himself" in case his wife ever tried to malign him with false abuse allegations.

Tacoma City Councilman Mike Lonergan, who sits on the council's public safety committee, said he had a hard time believing the shooting had happened.

"We knew David from his professional side. This is a total shock," Lonergan said Saturday. "He presented himself as a very together person, business-like and very likeable. This entire thing is hard to grasp."

Although Lonergan said the usually outgoing Brame had been withdrawn and seemed depressed lately, he had no idea what was going on at home.

"To know David Brame took the action he did today shows that there was a whole lot beneath the surface we couldn't see," Lonergan said.

Ken Bunting, executive editor of the P-I, said "this is a tragic development in lives that, from all accounts, have been troubled for quite some time. These events are not only painful for the family, but for the community and all who have the responsibility to ask the difficult questions about it. Domestic violence is never a comfortable topic."

Paul Pastor, Pierce County sheriff, announced Brame's death from outside St. Joseph's hospital. He said only that Brame had died of a gunshot wound; no other details were given.

"This is terribly sad news for this city and this community," Pastor said.

Carlos Sambrano, a childhood friend of the chief, went to the hospital to support the family. He said he and Brame played baseball at Lincoln High School.

"He never appeared to be a violent person," said Sambrano, who described his friend as a "class act."

Visibly distraught over the news of his friend's death, Sambrano said: "What's this world coming to."


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: banglist; domesticviolence; donutwatch; gigharbor; maritaldiscord; murdersuicide; tacoma
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1 posted on 04/27/2003 12:54:51 PM PDT by ATCNavyRetiree
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To: ATCNavyRetiree
This violence will continue till we take guns out of the hands of children...er...regular citizens...er....cops...er... ban all guns!

/sarcasm
2 posted on 04/27/2003 1:03:12 PM PDT by Bogey78O (check it out... http://freepers.zill.net/users/bogey78o_fr/puppet.swf)
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To: Bogey78O
It's Charlton Heston's fault....
3 posted on 04/27/2003 1:06:56 PM PDT by freebilly (I think they've misunderestimated us....)
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To: ATCNavyRetiree
Kids with parents at war are at a distinct disadvantage in life, and now with their parents dead, perhaps it will get worse, but with luck perhaps they will find a new life with people who love them more than they love to hate each other.

Every single person who is the son or daughter of parents at war knows the incredible pain these people bring to every aspect of life.

And anyone who is the product of a "happy" family will NEVER understand.
4 posted on 04/27/2003 1:07:35 PM PDT by FirstTomato (Always remember you are unique. Just like everyone else.)
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To: ATCNavyRetiree
We need to ban Police Chiefs.....
5 posted on 04/27/2003 1:08:18 PM PDT by cmsgop ( Arby's says no more Horsey Sauce for Scott Ritter !!!!)
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To: ATCNavyRetiree
We obviously do not know the truth of everything that happened, but I wonder if he might have been pushed over the edge by the knowledge that if his wife prevailed in court, his career would be over.

There is a strong bias in favor of women in these cases, and it is clear from the article that he knew it.

Nothing justifies his actions, but I just wonder. I knew a man in somewhat simular circumstances whose family was being destroyed. It appeared that he and his wife were whistle blowers, and the county attorney was using the Lautenberg law to destroy them.

His wife made the stupendous mistake of calling the police, (probably had watched too much TV) apparently to intimidate her husband after an argument. Once the police were called, it was totally out of her hands. The attorney for the husband believed that the wife was threatened with the loss of her children if she didn't come up with the desired statements to convict the husband. The wife was pressured into requesting a restraining order (she was a Mexican national). With the restraining order, the husband had no where to live, and no communications with the wife. The prosecutor's office kept asking for delay after delay, which had the effect of gradually eroding the funds the husband had borrowed from his parents for his defense. It was a very bad scene.

So, I just wonder.

6 posted on 04/27/2003 1:13:16 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: cmsgop
This is off topic but: It occured to me while reading this story in the paper that I'd like to see a study on the number of civilian legal gun owners who use them in this way as compared to the number of cops who end up using them this way. I wonder because offhand I have the sense that cops seem to do this an awful lot.
7 posted on 04/27/2003 1:14:17 PM PDT by TalBlack
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To: marktwain
You're right to wonder. I know guys whos wife resorted to calling cops at the slightest pretext during an argument. Divide and conquer applies here, and the Gov't is BOSS.
8 posted on 04/27/2003 1:17:12 PM PDT by TalBlack
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To: ATCNavyRetiree
"I think that people are saddened it got to that stage and unhappy that it happened here, and unhappy that it happened at all."

He thinks. Doesn't sound to me like he thinks much at all. That wussy, PC statement makes me sick.

Restratinging orders are useless anyway. You're more likely to be dead long before the police respond. And when the plaintiff is the police chief...forget it.

I pray she pulls through.

9 posted on 04/27/2003 1:17:13 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: marktwain
The divorce "system" in the US is corrupt and exceedingly evil. The lawyer industry profits vast money from the crooked courts. In my locale (Nassau County, NY) many of the judges are retired divorce lawyers.
10 posted on 04/27/2003 1:20:03 PM PDT by friendly
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To: ATCNavyRetiree
And another thing : is there something wrong with the water supply around the Tacoma area? Where was Rachael Corrie from?
11 posted on 04/27/2003 1:21:37 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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A man shoots the mother of his children and then himself, in the middle of the afternoon, in front of his screaming children, in a strip mall parking lot, and a few people here are blaming divorce courts.

The man lost it. No screwed up court system causes this. Good grief.

12 posted on 04/27/2003 1:25:16 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Not all those who wander are lost)
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To: FirstTomato
Yes, parents at war do bring a tremendous amount of pain into this world. Lets pray that the kids recover from this.

The existing divorce system needs a radical overhaul. It is bringing too many families to this end of events. The domestic violence occuring in court under the guidance of the legal system must end.

13 posted on 04/27/2003 1:28:36 PM PDT by Pikachu_Dad
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To: ATCNavyRetiree
The victims were the chief of the Tacoma Police Department and his wife.

The police chief was not a "victim" of this shooting.
14 posted on 04/27/2003 1:29:54 PM PDT by firewalk
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To: friendly
"...the lawyer industry...."

Well said. It is an industry, and it IS evil. I've known of so many cases where a couple split up, and if left to their own devices would probably have gone the no fault route and even maintained some sort of 'friendly' working relationship for the sake of their children who are the only real victims.

As soon as a LAYWER gets involved, expecially when he smells a practically unlimited amound of funds to be gained from dragging the case out for years and years and years, the MISERY compounded by this evil, greedy individual is incalculable. Corrupt, greedy lawyers give all lawyers a bad name.

15 posted on 04/27/2003 1:32:31 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: cake_crumb
Post #15: excellent and totally on the mark.
16 posted on 04/27/2003 1:37:20 PM PDT by friendly
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To: FirstTomato
I believe the article stated the wife is alive, altho in critical condition at the hospital.

I pray for her sake and the childrens' sake that she pulls through without lasting physical damage.

It's just awful those poor kids had to experience this.

Leni

17 posted on 04/27/2003 1:38:50 PM PDT by MinuteGal (THIS JUST IN ! Astonishing fare reduction for FReeps Ahoy Cruise! Check it out, pronto!)
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To: MinuteGal
the wife is alive

---
Oh. I somehow missed that. thanks.
18 posted on 04/27/2003 1:43:02 PM PDT by FirstTomato (Always remember you are unique. Just like everyone else.)
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To: HairOfTheDog
So much for the concept of personal responsibility. (Can you buy a t-shirt that says "The Gavel Made Me Do It"?)
19 posted on 04/27/2003 1:45:54 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet ("There was abuse in my family; it was mostly musical in nature.")
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To: cake_crumb
"Restratinging" was supposed to be "restraining". Yeeesh. It looked ok when I proofread it...
20 posted on 04/27/2003 1:46:42 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: marktwain
that Crystal Brame, 35, had obtained a temporary restraining order in February against her husband.

Not in this case ---it seems that she made the mistake of continuing to see a man who abused her, it's difficult to understand the motives of a woman who fears a man, gets a restraining order, and then breaks the restraining order herself by agreeing to meet him in a parking lot. The same thing happened here ---there was a restraining order the but woman herself actually called the man up, agreed to meet him in some secluded parking lot with the kids and same thing happened ---he killed her. The fact that she was a Mexican national might mean he thought he'd have a nice submissive, obedient wife and he found out they aren't all as submissive as he hoped.

21 posted on 04/27/2003 1:46:58 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: cake_crumb
The lawyer industry and the psychological industry are a horror, especially the psych industry.

Family, friends, faith--that is what will make the difference. No lawyers or psychologists.
22 posted on 04/27/2003 1:47:11 PM PDT by FirstTomato (Always remember you are unique. Just like everyone else.)
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To: cake_crumb
It was the fourth time that year he'd tried to choke her, each time sending flowers later to apologize, she said.

In this case, it seems she was going back over and over ---as the advice for daughters goes --"he hits you once, it's his fault, if he hits you twice, it's your fault". I see this guy accused her of abusing him also ---and she may have ---but then he should have already divorced her for that right after it happened.

23 posted on 04/27/2003 1:51:35 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: marktwain
Hey.....HE shot HER! Not the other way around. It doesn't matter what she did or didn't do, she didn't deserve to be shot. If he wanted to kill himself fine and dandy but leave everyone else alone. He is not a victim....he is (was) a criminal.
24 posted on 04/27/2003 1:52:37 PM PDT by Ima Lurker
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To: ATCNavyRetiree
I thought restraining orders jinxed any type of firearm possesion?

I guess you have to be a cop.

You get to point the gun at your wife, keep the gun, and keep your job as police chief.

25 posted on 04/27/2003 1:52:47 PM PDT by RIGHT IN SEATTLE
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To: BeforeISleep
Yes, he was probably a victim, just as much a victim as the woman.

I think it is rare in any relationship like this where one person is the bad guy and the other is not. It takes two people to make this kind of horror.

People who have been in these situations as spouses think about this in one way, with blinders on.

But ask children who have lived under these conditions. There is always a dynamic that can't be explained in simplistic terms, and weapons (in the broadest sense) are used by both people. It is just that men often choose more lethal weapons, so automatically to much of society this makes them the bad guy. The truth is often quite different.
26 posted on 04/27/2003 1:56:50 PM PDT by FirstTomato (Always remember you are unique. Just like everyone else.)
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To: HairOfTheDog
A man shoots the mother of his children and then himself, in the middle of the afternoon, in front of his screaming children, in a strip mall parking lot, and a few people here are blaming divorce courts.

The man lost it. No screwed up court system causes this. Good grief.

A police officer shoots himself and the wife who started the process of taking him to a court system that he knows will destroy his life and family.

I don't know if the above is really the case, and it doesn't justify his actions, but desperate people do crazy things.

This guy may have been very wrapped up in his career. It sounds like it, but I don't know. I do know that if you back people into a corner, where they see no way out, and where they see no chance of justice, it is more likely for them to act in crazy ways.

Is it possible that this guy was an abuser? Sure.

Is it possible that he was a guy too wrapped up in his job and marriage who was pushed over the edge by his knowlege of how the current system works? Sure.

Will we ever know? Probably not.

P.S. There is no mention in the article that the children were screaming while he shot himself and his wife. That seems to be a pure additional emotional, gratuitous additon, and it seems highly unlikely, since the kids almost certianly did not know what was going on until it was over.

27 posted on 04/27/2003 1:58:56 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: FirstTomato
Yes, he was probably a victim, just as much a victim as the woman.

No...he was not the "victim"...he pulled the trigger...

But ask children who have lived under these conditions. There is always a dynamic that can't be explained in simplistic terms, and weapons (in the broadest sense) are used by both people. It is just that men often choose more lethal weapons, so automatically to much of society this makes them the bad guy. The truth is often quite different.

Believe what you want...excuse away any crime you want...it is after all the victims fault. There are many men out there who own guns and no matter how much they want to...don't shoot the woman who pisses them off.

And I have lived under these "conditions" as you call them...
28 posted on 04/27/2003 2:04:19 PM PDT by firewalk
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To: ATCNavyRetiree
the end for him (chief)
29 posted on 04/27/2003 2:04:53 PM PDT by Walnut
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To: FirstTomato
"The lawyer industry and the psychological industry are a horror, especially the psych industry."

Absolutely. I've been railing against the psych industry for years. Particularly the state-run psyche industry.

In the case of a divorce made into horror show by greedy lawyers, psychological evaluations are usually called for. Then evaluations of the kids. If they can manufacture a problem, socialist workers become involved. Nasty, evil, greedy lawyers have been known to sic Children' Services onto to whichever parent is not their client. It's an 'easy' way for them to win cases.

Once Children's Services smells the LEAST little chance to worm their way in, they do NOT let go of a case, and they RARELY help the affected children in any way.

Their sole purpose, as far as I have been able to ascertain, is to find families in trouble, hang around the house like the PC gestapo and manufacture problems. So they can maintain their level of government funding, because the entire state psych industry is funded by the number of cases currently open. It's in the best interests of job security for the socialist workers to create and keep as many cases as possible. Sort of like funding for public education, except that it's based on cases rathe than numbers of students.

Taxpaying parents going through divorce and being preyed upon by socialist workers as well as lawyers are funding this.

30 posted on 04/27/2003 2:04:59 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: Bogey78O
the violence stopped as soon as they took the gun out of the Chiefs hand
31 posted on 04/27/2003 2:06:23 PM PDT by Walnut
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To: HairOfTheDog
Your right. we have to stop puttng the blame in the wrong place and put it wher it belongs. On the person who committed the crime. In this case the Chief.
32 posted on 04/27/2003 2:10:36 PM PDT by Walnut
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To: BeforeISleep
There are lots of ways to murder people than to kill them.

The point I am making is not that this guy is innocent, but there is a reason behind what he did, and it is very likely that the woman contributed to it.

Take that as you may. I know that women often incite these problems by their own actions. And men often respond because their rights have been stripped, they have been attacked by our leftist womenized socity, and they feel they have no recourse.

Frankly, I think its terrible how women are allowed to get away with anything, as long as its technically not physically violent.



33 posted on 04/27/2003 2:12:11 PM PDT by FirstTomato (Always remember you are unique. Just like everyone else.)
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To: marktwain
I am a local that has hung out in the restaurant people ran into asking for help. A worker there that I know went out and held pressure on this woman's head. I have also seen all the TV reports from the scene where the other passers-by heard the children screaming "Daddy NO!" What they heard were two pops of gunfire and the children screaming.

I am sure the man felt his life was a mess. Most people who are married 11 years, have children and then divorce have a period of time when their life is a mess. People can and have lost their minds over a broken heart and a bad outlook on their future.

This man also made a good salary, could afford an attorney, and could work through it the way most of the men who go through this do, without shooting yourself and your children's mother in their presence.

I don't know if the woman was a bitch or not. Maybe they were both out of hand, most of the time these divorces are ugly it is a two way street. My brother said this morning, "Behind every murder/suicide are two people that were impossible to get along with.

But good grief. The worst court settlement in the world doesn't begin to take away from the madness this was.

What did this man think his children would do in the minutes following this act?
34 posted on 04/27/2003 2:12:48 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Not all those who wander are lost)
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To: marktwain
"On Friday [shooting occurred the next day], the Seattle Post-Intelligencer reported that Crystal Brame, 35, had obtained a temporary restraining order in February against her husband."

I wonder if he might have been pushed over the edge by the knowledge that if his wife prevailed in court, his career would be over.

I watched this story unfolding last night. My gut then -- and now -- is that he snapped when it all hit the court papers (she hadn't put it in legal form till the day before he shot her). I also think he put the kids in his car, returned to her car and gave her an ultimatum to recant what she'd put into the court papers and let their lives go back to "normal" < gack >. When she refused, Bam.

There was an awful lot of cover being given by the Tacoma PD last night, portraying Brame as such a good guy. < double gack > No wonder Mrs. Good Guy didn't report this to the police but waited to put it into the court papers.

35 posted on 04/27/2003 2:13:44 PM PDT by GretchenEE (We export freedom.)
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To: FirstTomato
I'm sorry but I disagree with you. Murders act alone to go the final step. what ever happened to walking away. ?If he met her in the parking lot with the gun on him ,it was premeditated. He had all intentions of killing her. first.
36 posted on 04/27/2003 2:15:18 PM PDT by Walnut
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To: cake_crumb
Restraining orders are useless anyway. You're more likely to be dead long before the police respond. And when the plaintiff is the police chief...forget it.

This case brings me to conclude that when a police chief's wife is able to convince a duly-authorized court to issue a restraining order that is intended to keep her alive, the police chief should be placed on administrative leave pending an investigation by people over his pay grade.

37 posted on 04/27/2003 2:17:23 PM PDT by GretchenEE (We export freedom.)
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To: FirstTomato
The point I am making is not that this guy is innocent, but there is a reason behind what he did, and it is very likely that the woman contributed to it

Instead of looking at the facts (the fact being that he shot this woman in front of their children) you're making excuses for him. He meant to kill her, he killed himself. He was not the victim, he was the person who attempted murder. Make all the excuses you want, if it makes you "feel" better...It still won't make it so...
38 posted on 04/27/2003 2:18:28 PM PDT by firewalk
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To: ATCNavyRetiree
A cop would not lie to the court, would he?????
39 posted on 04/27/2003 2:18:57 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: ATCNavyRetiree
Doesn't WA State already have some of the strictest gun-control laws anywhere? People in WA State believe in confiscation of "dangerous" firearms, except for some in the Spokane area, which is very isolated from the population center on the West Coast.
40 posted on 04/27/2003 2:19:02 PM PDT by Theodore R.
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To: FirstTomato
I don't believe you said what you did. NO ONE IS TO BLAME WHEN THEY ARE MURDERED
This guys wacko. there are a lot of provacation going on by men and woman and they don't kill thier spouse or significant other because they are good at pushing Buttons.
41 posted on 04/27/2003 2:19:42 PM PDT by Walnut
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To: cake_crumb
Yes, the psychological industry is a disaster for the American family, and I think one which takes advantage of both men and women. Instead of enouraging people to look for solutions in faith, this society looks to the DSM as a God.

And unfortunately many women are the ones who fall for this psychological garbage, which often has a large component of radical feminism injected into it.

Some people get upset with me for my harsh criticism of women in today's world, but women have swallowed too much of the NOW feminista type of man-hatred, and too often see their husbands as competitors.



42 posted on 04/27/2003 2:21:18 PM PDT by FirstTomato (Always remember you are unique. Just like everyone else.)
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To: FirstTomato
There is always a dynamic that can't be explained in simplistic terms, and weapons (in the broadest sense) are used by both people.

I don't think he's a victim at all --not in any way but I agree there is usually a dynamic that isn't simple to explain. She was a victim ---but not one that got out immediately ---he was the persecuter and the flower-giver. What makes some women put up with abuse for years, anyone who works with these women victims will tell of how even when they are in domestic abuse centers, many leave and go back for more abuse. Maybe it's self-esteem? --they feel they deserve to be punished? Maybe the need to "have a husband" to provide a living? Or the social status of having a husband?

43 posted on 04/27/2003 2:21:19 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
"So much for the concept of personal responsibility. (Can you buy a t-shirt that says "The Gavel Made Me Do It"?)"

I'm not blaming the court system. The fact that he's a police cheif does not make him immune to the weaknesses of the rest of humanity. He shot his wife in FRONT OF HIS CHILDREN. I can't believe any normal human being, no matter how far they were pushed by their spouse or the court, would subject his children to such horror. Didn't he think of the effect on his kids? Apparently not. That tye of behavior has to make you wonder just how much he cared about his family.

However, the entire system is corrupt. That was why I brought up the restraining order against the chief of police. Who's gonna enforce it?

My nasty divorce was stretched out to five agonizing years by my ex's attorney. I had a restraining order against him, because he was following me around, threatening to shoot me. He used to sit across the road from my house, watching it. Not just him. He, his parents and his best friend took the seige in shifts. Know what the police told me when I finally got tired of avoiding windows? They said there was nothing they could do, because we didn't own the property across the road. What good is a restraining order? They can arrest the violator, but you'll be no less dead for that.

Now imagine such a nightmare of a divorce, but the spouse doing the stalking is the police chief. As I said, who's gonna enforce it?

44 posted on 04/27/2003 2:22:12 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: GretchenEE
There was no pause between shooting her and then shooting himself. The shots were in rapid succession, from the reports of those on the scene. I might have expected if it were unplanned, that he would shoot her, and in the "what have I done?" moment, killed himself as he realized he now had no future. But there was no pause for thought. His plan from the start was to kill himself too. Incomprehendable mindset.
45 posted on 04/27/2003 2:22:14 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Not all those who wander are lost)
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To: HairOfTheDog
A man shoots the mother of his children and then himself, ... in front of his screaming children ... and a few people here are blaming divorce courts.

I don't know the particulars of that poster's life, but I have often found on such topics that the poster has an old, personal axe to grind.

46 posted on 04/27/2003 2:22:32 PM PDT by GretchenEE (We export freedom.)
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To: cake_crumb
"Corrupt greedy lawyers" give the other 1% a bad name.

In the present political environment, Police Chiefs have a similar status to the 'nomenclatura' of the old Soviet Union.

All the important tests for suitability for the job are political, both within the praetorian police unions, and within the interest-juggling petty bureaucracies of city government and state departments.

Our ambitious Chief Brame was no doubt in psychic agony over the possible rejection of himself by the Tacoma Establishment.

Socialist systems of hierarchy and reward tend to pervert people in this particular way. Milovan Djilas wrote a number of interesting books outlining the destruction of human values by such a system in his Tito-era Yugoslavia.

Things aren't that different in the Soviet of Washington, apparently.
47 posted on 04/27/2003 2:22:33 PM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: FirstTomato
Yes, he was probably a victim, just as much a victim as the woman.

Bizarro.

48 posted on 04/27/2003 2:24:02 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Not all those who wander are lost)
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To: RIGHT IN SEATTLE
"I thought restraining orders jinxed any type of firearm possesion?"

They do. They're supposed to anyway. My ex was supposed to get rid of his pistols, but never did and wasn't forced to. Corruption.

49 posted on 04/27/2003 2:25:53 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: FirstTomato
The point I am making is not that this guy is innocent, but there is a reason behind what he did, and it is very likely that the woman contributed to it.

I'm racking my brain trying to come up with something a woman can do that would justify shooting her to death in a parking lot with her children nearby.

Nope. You can stretch and contort all you like, but blaming the victim here isn't going to cut it. It doesn't matter what she did, she didn't deserve to be murdered in front of her children, and we can't ask the husband what she did, now can we, because the wussy killed himself and orphaned his children.

50 posted on 04/27/2003 2:26:01 PM PDT by wimpycat ('Nemo me impune lacessit')
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