Posted on 04/28/2003 2:25:50 PM PDT by Remedy
I think it might be a little naive to assume that "gay Republicans" ever actually vote for Republican candidates or ever have.
I see the Log Cabin group as much more of propaganda device than any legitimate conservative group. They are not organized to nor do they work to move fellow-sodomites to the Republican position. Their entire concern is about their sexuality and their special rights.
If someone is trying to use a "Republican" group as a propaganda ploy and all they ever talk about is sodomy rights, then I suspect they vote Democrat in a ballot box.
I think the case should be compared to black Republicans. Among black Republicans, they actually work hard to swap people toward conservativism. And they have made some real inroads. So, even if 91% of the black vote went to Gore, it would have been more without black Republicans and their efforts. And I think they will continue to make more inroads. But it's still a tough fight ahead for years to come.
So black Republicans are definitely serious conservatives. I don't think you can say the same for homosexual advocacy groups who label themselves as Republicans so they can play Trojan Horse.
Or is Trojan Horse perhaps offensive to the anti-condom crowd like Sullivan?
53 posted on 01/23/2003 8:57 PM EST by George W. Bush
For those who are interested, Sullivan's web sites were cached and placed on display before he could get them shut down. This a link to the front page of those cached copies of his sites at AOL and BarebackCity:
Andrew Sullivan's barebacking sites Warning: very explicit photos of Sullivan on subsequent pages (not on first page). But this should tell you more about what gay rights mean to Andrew Sullivan and what he does with his freedom.
Sullivan is HIV-positive and advertises for sex without condoms with others. There's nothing remotely conservative about him.
54 posted on 01/23/2003 9:08 PM EST by George W. Bush
With it out of my wallet, my school, and my face, I'll be happy to live and let live.On this point we are in complete agreement.
I suppose you could monitor people for what they do that adds to the price of your insurance, as long as they can monitor you for how fast you drive, what foods you eat, what your sleeping habits are, and anything else you might do that would affect how much they pay for insurance.
You just advocated rape and murder.Explain how.
this law would require each person's household to be monitored in a way that would violate the rights with regard to legal searches.
No more than other illegal activites (murder, rape…).
You need due process for those crimes -- crimes which are non-consensual acts, BTW.
If that's your lifestyle!Well, no. The court manufactured "privacy doctrine" implies consent: rape and murder, by definition, involve non-consenting parties.
Quit proudly proclaiming that for which you should be ashamed.
Are you saying that we should simply be discreet, but otherwise we should be free to pursue happiness as we choose to define it?
That would save you and the rest of society alot of grief and trouble.
Or is this like some sort of national, "don't ask, don't tell" policy?
You all insist on telling when nobody wants to hear it, whether we like it or not.
OR does this mean that you get to pass laws against the sorts of sexual behaviors that you don't like? Or what?
It means we get to pass laws, as we have always done in America, against that which is destructive of our civilization and our society.
I mean, why should your "version" of the world be privileged over anyone else's? Please advise.
Why? You are too blind to see anyhow.
I don't understand your point. There are laws against driving too fast, and when you get nailed, your insurance goes up (believe me on this one). You may not get charged more for eating particular foods, but you most certainly do for smoking and for certain recreational activities.
If insurance companies were allowed to do a real actuarial analysis and charge more for high-risk behavior; or simply to exclude AIDS from coverage, I'd have no problem.
As it is, as long as the taxpayer or the insurance companies pay to treat brain injuries, I support helmet laws. And as long as we pay to treat diseases caused by massive promiscuity, we have a right to pass laws regulating sexual behavior.
But society always . . . makes these moral judgments," said Scalia. "Why is this different from bigamy?"
Indeed, if people have a "fundamental right" to "consensual sexual conduct in the home," why can't a man take two wives? Why not three? Why can't everybody pick the conglomeration of consensual partners that suits their peculiar appetite? As long as it's done "in the home," not in the street, it's a fundamental right. Right?
Where does it end? Who can tell -- given that a ruling for the petitioners could cause catastrophic collateral damage to the foundation of law itself? All men, said the Founders, "are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights." If all consensual adult sex is one of those rights, either God gave it to us or some force other than God is author of our liberty.
Seventeen years ago, in Bowers v. Hardwick, when Laurence Tribe first argued for this right, Justice Byron White, writing for the Court, said "it would be difficult, except by fiat, to limit the claimed right to homosexual conduct while leaving exposed to prosecution adultery, incest, and other sexual crimes even though they are committed in the home. We are unwilling to start down that road."
Chief Justice Warren Burger scoffed at Tribe's claim. "To hold that the act of homosexual sodomy is somehow protected as a fundamental right," he said, "would be to cast aside millennia of moral teaching."
the
FOUNDING FATHERS UNLEASHED Our Constitution provides the legitimate foundations of this country as a free nation that is of the people and by the people but, we must read beyond it words and read it's authors words and thoughts in order to understand the warnings they have sent through generations to it's application in todays world.
warning...
"
We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion...Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
"
warning...
- John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson
T
he entire argument about sexual behavior is so simple it can be reduced to the following: Should there be any social rules about what sexual activity a human being engages in?If the answer is no then everyone should just shut up...hetero is okay, cousins are okay, polygamy is okay, bi is okay; gay is okay, 13-year olds are okay, and one or one-hundred-at-a-time are okay, et. al.
However, if a society decides that certain rules about who does whom when and where is functional and perhaps even necessary, all that is left is to decide is
WHAT are the rules of sexual behavior and WHO shall make them...simple. Those who follow the 'rules' are then NORMAL and all the rest are PERVERTS... so very, very simple...you decide.Van & Katherine Jenerette
www.jenerette.com �
242 posted on 04/26/2003 9:22 PM EDT by Van Jenerette (Our Republic...If We Can Keep It!)
You need due process for those crimes -- crimes which are non-consensual acts, BTW.
American Center for Law and Justice This Court should affirm the judgment rejecting petitioners' equal protection claim. This case has been litigated under the rational basis standard; hence, as this Court explained in Heller v. Doe, 509 U. S. 312, 319 (1993), it would be wholly improper and unfair to inject a new standard here. Moreover, because there is no fundamental right at issue and because the record does not even identify what supposed suspect or quasi-suspect class petitioners belong to, heightened scrutiny is in any event unjustified. Under rational scrutiny, the ban on same-sex sodomy clearly passes constitutional muster. There are at least three, independently adequate, rational bases for the statute. First, a ban on same-sex sodomy permissibly furthers public morality. Second, the extensively documented health risks of same-sex sodomy supply a strong public health rationale for the statute. Third, based upon the view of all nine Justices in Bowers, as well as this Court's other "privacy" decisions, a state could reasonably conclude that, to minimize the likelihood of constitutional attack and invalidity, a ban on sodomy needed to exclude heterosexual acts. Importantly, the distinction between heterosexual and homosexual unions is the hallmark of marriage law. To invalidate that distinction here would be tantamount to holding marriage unconstitutional.
II. PETITIONERS' SUBSTANTIVE DUE PROCESS CHALLENGE FAILS.
As Justice Stevens wrote for a unanimous Court, As a general matter, the Court has always been reluctant to expand the concept of substantive due process because guideposts for responsible decisionmaking in this unchartered area are scarce and open-ended. . . . The doctrine of judicial self-restraint requires us to exercise the utmost care whenever we are asked to break new ground in this field. Collins, 503 U. S. at 125 (citation omitted).
Actually, there's a danger there. The Democrats are on the verge of a split between their far left-wing and more moderate members. They've started to feud on Iraq, but even before that you saw the feud in the defeat of Cynthia McKinney in the Democratic Primary.
If there is a split, after 2004 -- and I'd say that's slightly better than a 50-50 proposition right now -- that would most likely result in a significant number of Dems joining the Greens. The Dems then would no longer have to kowtow to the left and could embrace a vigorous defense policy and a somewhat less radically left economic policy.
If this were to happen and the Republican Right managed a purge along social lines, the socially libertarian Republicans, like myself, might well find the Dems a more palatable party to belong to and vote for.
If this happens, I'd figure the Greens would have about a sixth of the voters, the GOP would hold about a third, and the Democrats would hold a plurality, if not an absolute majority, with about half the votes.
I'd say this scenario is unlikely, but I'd say it has a one-in-five chance of happening. More likely -- and better, in my opinion -- the GOP will find a way to hold all us bickerers and be a 55-60% party for the foreseeable future.
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