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The Dini-gration of Darwinism
AgapePress ^ | April 29, 2003 | Mike S. Adams

Posted on 04/29/2003 10:43:39 AM PDT by Remedy

Texas Tech University biology professor Michael Dini recently came under fire for refusing to write letters of recommendation for students unable to "truthfully and forthrightly affirm a scientific answer" to the following question: "How do you think the human species originated?"

For asking this question, Professor Dini was accused of engaging in overt religious discrimination. As a result, a legal complaint was filed against Dini by the Liberty Legal Institute. Supporters of the complaint feared that consequences of the widespread adoption of Dini’s requirement would include a virtual ban of Christians from the practice of medicine and other related fields.

In an effort to defend his criteria for recommendation, Dini claimed that medicine was first rooted in the practice of magic. Dini said that religion then became the basis of medicine until it was replaced by science. After positing biology as the science most important to the study of medicine, he also posited evolution as the "central, unifying principle of biology" which includes both micro- and macro-evolution, which applies to all species.

In addition to claiming that someone who rejects the most important theory in biology cannot properly practice medicine, Dini suggested that physicians who ignore or neglect Darwinism are prone to making bad clinical decisions. He cautioned that a physician who ignores data concerning the scientific origins of the species cannot expect to remain a physician for long. He then rhetorically asked the following question: "If modern medicine is based on the method of science, then how can someone who denies the theory of evolution -- the very pinnacle of modern biological science -- ask to be recommended into a scientific profession by a professional scientist?"

In an apparent preemptive strike against those who would expose the weaknesses of macro-evolution, Dini claimed that "one can validly refer to the ‘fact’ of human evolution, even if all of the details are not yet known." Finally, he cautioned that a good scientist "would never throw out data that do not conform to their expectations or beliefs."

The legal aspect of this controversy ended this week with Dini finally deciding to change his recommendation requirements. But that does not mean it is time for Christians to declare victory and move on. In fact, Christians should be demanding that Dini’s question be asked more often in the court of public opinion. If it is, the scientific community will eventually be indicted for its persistent failure to address this very question in scientific terms.

Christians reading this article are already familiar with the creation stories found in the initial chapters of Genesis and the Gospel of John. But the story proffered by evolutionists to explain the origin of the species receives too little attention and scrutiny. In his two most recent books on evolution, Phillip Johnson gives an account of evolutionists’ story of the origin of the human species which is similar to the one below:

In the beginning there was the unholy trinity of the particles, the unthinking and unfeeling laws of physics, and chance. Together they accidentally made the amino acids which later began to live and to breathe. Then the living, breathing entities began to imagine. And they imagined God. But then they discovered science and then science produced Darwin. Later Darwin discovered evolution and the scientists discarded God.

Darwinists, who proclaim themselves to be scientists, are certainly entitled to hold this view of the origin of the species. But that doesn’t mean that their view is, therefore, scientific. They must be held to scientific standards requiring proof as long as they insist on asking students to recite these verses as a rite of passage into their "scientific" discipline.

It, therefore, follows that the appropriate way to handle professors like Michael Dini is not to sue them but, instead, to demand that they provide specific proof of their assertion that the origin of all species can be traced to primordial soup. In other words, we should pose Dr. Dini’s question to all evolutionists. And we should do so in an open public forum whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Recently, I asked Dr. Dini for that proof. He didn’t respond.

Dini’s silence as well as the silence of other evolutionists speaks volumes about the current status of the discipline of biology. It is worth asking ourselves whether the study of biology has been hampered by the widespread and uncritical acceptance of Darwinian principles. To some observers, its study has largely become a hollow exercise whereby atheists teach other atheists to blindly follow Darwin without asking any difficult questions.

At least that seems to be the way things have evolved.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: creatins; creation; crevo; crevolist; darwin; evoloonists; evolunacy; evolution
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Nothing + Nobody + Eons = Particles + Laws + Chance = The Deaf, Dumb and Blind Faith of the Fundamentalist Fossil Thumpers. Deafened by it's own shrill rants, it became too dumb to know the difference between theory and conjecture, and too blind to design.

CREATION : EVOLUTIONARY ARROGANCE (SHAMAN ALERT)

One of their communicants, in fact, calls them its "shamans." He says,

We show deference to our leaders, pay respect to our elders and follow the dictates of our shamans; this being the Age of Science, it is scien-tism's shamans who command our veneration. . . . scientists [are] the premier mythmakers of our time.1

The investment of these leaders of the evolutionary faith with such pontifical authority, however, tends to generate in them an attitude of profound impatience with such heresies as creationism. Instead of opposing the creationists with scientific proofs of macroevolution, they resort to name-calling and ridicule. A professor at a Missouri university fulminates at the "lunatic literalism of the creationists,"4 especially "the weirdness produced by leaders such as Henry M. Morris."5

And even such an articulate and highly revered evolutionist as the late Stephen Jay Gould, in a voluminous book of 1433 pages published just before his death, referred angrily to "the scourge of creationism."6 He had refused many invitations to debate a qualified creationist scientist with the self-serving and misleading explanation that it would be a mistake to dignify creationism and its scientists in this way.

Dr. Massimo Pigliucci, who has lost a number of debates with Dr. Gish and other creationists, laments the fact that, "many Americans are still enchanted with dinosaurs such as John Morris and Duane Gish of the oxymoronically named Institute for Creation Research."7

Although Dr. Gould would never debate a creationist scientist, despite the inducement of large financial incentives to do so, he was quick to criticize them in print, calling them "fundamentalists who call themselves `creation scientists,' with their usual mixture of cynicism and ignorance."8 Gould often resorted, in fact, to the standard debate technique of name-calling and ad hominem arguments commonly used when one has no factual evidence to support his position.

One writer laments that even after the pope reaffirmed the commitment of the Catholic Church to evolution in 1996,

40 percent of American Catholics in a 2001 Gallup poll said they believed that God created human life in the past 10,000 years. Indeed, fully 45 percent of all Americans subscribe to this creationist view.12

But why would the public favor creation? Only a statistical minority of the "general public" attends church and Sunday school. Could it possibly be that evolution is so contrary to evidence and common sense that people intuitively know that evolution is wrong? And could it be that many of these have studied the evidences for themselves and thereby found that evolution is not really scientific after all?

Anti-Creationists Backed Into a Corner? Forrest Turpen, executive director of Christian Educators Association International, says it is obvious the evolution-only advocates feel their ideology and livelihood are being threatened.

Media Bias Stifles Creationists' Scientific Findings, Perspective He explains that the secular media -- which he describes as atheistic and anti-Christian -- publishes most anything it can that appears to indoctrinate people and "hits against the Bible."

Loosening Darwin's GripA poll released in May 2002 by Zogby International found that nearly eight out of every 10 Ohioans supported the teaching of intelligent design in classrooms where Darwinian evolution also is taught. A survey by The Plain Dealer newspaper in Cleveland offered similar findings: 74 percent of Ohioans said evidence for and against evolution should be taught in science classrooms, while 59 percent said intelligent design should be included in origins study.

Intelligently Designed Films The two videos complement each other well. Unlocking the Mystery of Life develops all of Intelligent Design's major molecular-based arguments for an "intelligent cause" of life's complexity, and thus presents the positive case. Icons of Evolution, on the other hand, spotlights the problems of Darwinism: its censorship of key scientific information in public schools, and the scientific misinformation it spreads through public textbooks.

How Does the World View of the Scientist & the Clinician Influence Their Work?

Does the world view of the scientist influence his work as an investigator conducting research and as a clinician treating patients? Many scholars in the history of science would answer that question with a resounding "Yes." Some, like Thomas Kuhn in his widely quoted "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions," have argued that the scientific process is less than an objective critical empirical investigation of the facts. They claim the work of scientists is greatly influenced by their culture, by social and psychological environment, by what Kuhn calls the "paradigm"--that is to say, the preferred or prevailing theories, methods and studies of that particular discipline, and above all by their world view--their specific beliefs about "the order of nature." Kuhn writes that two scientists with different views of the "order of nature" . . . see different things when they look from the same point in the same direction . . . they see different things and they see them in different relations to each other." And we might add that they tend to see and to accept those data that conform to or make sense in light of their world view. So evidence exists that the world view of scientists and the presuppositions that view implies may influence not only the problems scientists choose to investigate but also what they actually observe and fail to observe.

1 posted on 04/29/2003 10:43:39 AM PDT by Remedy
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To: Remedy
Texas Tech University biology professor Michael Dini recently came under fire for refusing to write letters of recommendation

These are not required to graduate, nor are they required to continue your education. If he refused to 'sponsor' a Masters, or PhD; you'd have a case. Anyone may refuse to write a letter of recommendation to anyone, for any reason, or no reason. Granted, he's acting like a jerk; but he has the right to do so.

2 posted on 04/29/2003 10:51:09 AM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Remedy
Darwinism is a radical religious cult that is afraid of scientific reason
3 posted on 04/29/2003 10:53:03 AM PDT by ibme
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To: *crevo_list
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list
4 posted on 04/29/2003 11:09:07 AM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Ideas have consequences)
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To: Hodar
Previous discussion on Free Republic would seem to indicate that the Creationists believe that a letter of recommendation is an entitlement. They also claimed that such letters could not be refused on the basis of civil rights.
5 posted on 04/29/2003 11:44:36 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Darwinism is the atheist religion ... bolshevik monoploy that forbids all others --- fascism !
6 posted on 04/29/2003 11:48:59 AM PDT by f.Christian (( There (( evolution )) ... but for the grace (( love // Truth )) of God --- go (( WAS )) I . ))
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To: Remedy
In the beginning there was the unholy trinity of the particles, the unthinking and unfeeling laws of physics, and chance. Together they accidentally made the amino acids which later began to live and to breathe. Then the living, breathing entities began to imagine. And they imagined God. But then they discovered science and then science produced Darwin. Later Darwin discovered evolution and the scientists discarded God.

Total strawman. This is not the theory of evolution. Some evolutionists are atheists, but many are believers. Evolution may be inconsistent with a hyperliteral reading of Genesis 1-2, but is in no other way inconsistent with a belief in God or creation.

7 posted on 04/29/2003 11:54:32 AM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: f.Christian
Darwinism is the atheist religion

No, I have no idea where you came up with that thought. Go to any museaum and you can actually LEARN what you are talking about. Darwinism need not cause you to reject creationism any more than chemisty does. You can easily see that the fossil record shows that animals change over time. This is what Charles Darwin noted. Survival of the fittest, and animals changing characteristics that aided in survival are hardly a religon. The bible makes no references to dinosaurs, so are they a religous fanatics fantasy too?

8 posted on 04/29/2003 11:56:30 AM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Let's see if I can follow this logic: First, grades are stipulated as a reasonably objective measure of competence and performance, therefore graduate schools don't consider them as sufficient for admission. Second, letters of recommendation -- which are entirely subjective and can be obtained through butt-kissing, bribery or sexual favors -- are the preferred qualifier for graduate school.

Therefore it follows that the subjective admissions criteria should not be questioned, but rather the process for doling out the letters should be brought under federal control.

Makes sense to me.

9 posted on 04/29/2003 11:58:39 AM PDT by js1138
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To: Hodar
SOUPERSTITION ... baloney science (( atheist // evolution )) ---

A smart God // science doesn't -- can't evolve ...

evolution (( Godless )) is inherently stupid --- impossible !
10 posted on 04/29/2003 12:00:28 PM PDT by f.Christian (( There (( evolution )) ... but for the grace (( love // Truth )) of God --- go (( WAS )) I . ))
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To: f.Christian
And dinosaur bones, fossils, petrified shells and all other evidence showing evolution are really just mass hysteria, huh? Amazing that so many museaums around the world would buy into the impossible. The frozen mammonth in Siberia is really just a hairy sardine. A little education on your part would do wonders. You can actually learn from a visit to any neighborhood museaum. And evolution is not necessarily an Atheistic pursuit, you would know this if you bothered to investigate for yourself.
11 posted on 04/29/2003 12:05:47 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: js1138
First Amendment groups hailed the ruling.

"This is extraordinarily important," said Barry Lynn, a lawyer with Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, which filed a brief in support of the two cadets who brought the case. "It essentially says that ... public universities have no business promoting religion --- at mealtime or bedtime or any other time."

No religous liberty ... Atheism // evolution is a hate crime --- cult !

12 posted on 04/29/2003 12:07:25 PM PDT by f.Christian (( There (( evolution )) ... but for the grace (( love // Truth )) of God --- go (( WAS )) I . ))
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To: VadeRetro; jennyp; Junior; longshadow; *crevo_list; RadioAstronomer; Scully; Piltdown_Woman; ...
Another wild and whacky ping.

[This ping list is for the evolution -- not creationism -- side of evolution threads, and sometimes for other science topics. To be added (or dropped), let me know via freepmail.]

13 posted on 04/29/2003 12:09:49 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Idiots on parade. Again.
14 posted on 04/29/2003 12:10:02 PM PDT by balrog666 (When in doubt, tell the truth. - Mark Twain)
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To: Hodar
hd ...

are really just mass hysteria, huh?

fC ...

exactly ---

Brainwashing (( Truth // Theism // conservatism )) ...

INDOCTRINATION (( liberalism // atheism // lies )) ...

forced too !
15 posted on 04/29/2003 12:10:21 PM PDT by f.Christian (( There (( evolution )) ... but for the grace (( love // Truth )) of God --- go (( WAS )) I . ))
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To: PatrickHenry
No religous liberty ... Atheism // evolution is a hate crime --- SATANIC cult !


16 posted on 04/29/2003 12:12:02 PM PDT by f.Christian (( There (( evolution )) ... but for the grace (( love // Truth )) of God --- go (( WAS )) I . ))
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To: Remedy
YEC read later
17 posted on 04/29/2003 12:16:26 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: balrog666
Any time the First Ammendment is used to justify the coercion of speech, and "conservatives" celebrate this event, something is deeply wrong with the world.

Next up, Rush Limbaugh.

18 posted on 04/29/2003 12:16:33 PM PDT by js1138
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To: f.Christian
To f.Christian,

I have read many of your replies, and for the life of me I cannot understand why you post things with such an arcane pattern of wording and punctuation. The whole point of posting is to COMMUNICATE with the reader. Your arguments are not well represented with the bizzare syntax you choose to implement.

For example, you stated:

"...evolution (( Godless )) is inherently stupid --- impossible !..."

Do you mean that believing in NO God is on it's face stupid, and that believing in God is automatically a sign of intelligence? Then I would have to ask, would belief in TWO Gods be even smarter? How about THREE?

A reader is left by your posts with the impression that either:

(a) English is not your first language -or-
(b) English is your first language, you just never bothered to learn the rules -or-
(c) You know the rules, but are too lazy to adhere to them while writing -or-
(d) You are masking poor or weak arguments in hard to read sentences.

COMMUNICATION ... (((talking // speaking // writing))) requires (needs // depends upon) MUTUALLY ACCEPTED Language Usage.

There, is that better?

Rebel Ace

19 posted on 04/29/2003 12:17:04 PM PDT by Rebel_Ace (Tags?!? Tags?!? We don' neeeed no stinkin' Tags!)
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To: All
A very few links from the famous "list-o-links" (so the creationists don't get to start each new thread from ground zero).

15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense. From Scientific American
Arguments we think creationists should NOT use from Answers in Genesis.
300 Creationist Lies.

The foregoing is just a tiny sample. So that everyone will have access to the accumulated Creationism vs. Evolution threads which have previously appeared on FreeRepublic, plus links to hundreds of sites with a vast amount of information on this topic, here's Junior's massive work, available for all to review:
The Ultimate Creation vs. Evolution Resource [ver 21].

20 posted on 04/29/2003 12:17:20 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: Hodar
No, I have no idea where you came up with that thought.

Sure you do. There's a whole cottage industry of people peddling that line of snake oil.

21 posted on 04/29/2003 12:18:08 PM PDT by Physicist (You just have to handle enough snakes. ;^)
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To: Remedy
To some observers, its study has largely become a hollow exercise whereby atheists teach other atheists to blindly follow Darwin without asking any difficult questions.

Great line, Remedy.

22 posted on 04/29/2003 12:18:08 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Previous discussion on Free Republic would seem to indicate that the Creationists believe that a letter of recommendation is an entitlement. They also claimed that such letters could not be refused on the basis of civil rights.

Rather it would seem that bigotry backed by "science" is acceptable.

23 posted on 04/29/2003 12:20:27 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: Hodar
Go to any museaum and you can actually LEARN what you are talking about.

OK. Where is my nearest museaum?

24 posted on 04/29/2003 12:21:53 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: Dataman
Rather it would seem that bigotry backed by "science" is acceptable.

Then why I can't I register for the ICR's message boards If I'm an evolutionist? Who's the bigot there?

25 posted on 04/29/2003 12:22:34 PM PDT by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: ThinkPlease
Then why I can't I register for the ICR's message boards If I'm an evolutionist?

If what you say is true, ICR isn't a tax-funded institute.

26 posted on 04/29/2003 12:24:33 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: Rebel_Ace
ra ...

Do you mean that believing in NO God is on it's face stupid, and that believing in God is automatically a sign of intelligence? Then I would have to ask, would belief in TWO Gods be even smarter? How about THREE?

fC ...

good example of evo babble ---

evo logic epilepsy --- stutter // stupor // fits ! !
27 posted on 04/29/2003 12:26:22 PM PDT by f.Christian (( There (( evolution )) ... but for the grace (( love // Truth )) of God --- go (( WAS )) I . ))
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To: f.Christian
Dilute! Dilute! OK!
28 posted on 04/29/2003 12:27:02 PM PDT by steve-b
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To: Dataman
"...Previous discussion on Free Republic would seem to indicate that the Creationists believe that a letter of recommendation is an entitlement. They also claimed that such letters could not be refused on the basis of civil rights..."

Rather it would seem that bigotry backed by "science" is acceptable.

That is not how I read the article. The instructor was asking the student to give the scientific explanation for the existance of the current forms of life that inhabit the Earth. Belief was not brought into question, only whether the students could demonstrate that they properly understood the subject as taught. Let me give you an identical counter example, with a less inflammatory subject:

A Professor of Political Science asks his students the following question:
"What is the basis of legitimate authority for Communist Governments?"
If a student's reply was, "There is none, I don't believe in the Communist form of government, and I won't answer this question." then the instructor would have every right to say that the student was non-responsive, and failed to demonstrate that they had absorbed the material of the Political Science class. (BTW, it makes no difference if the question was about Communisim, Socialism, Anarchy, etc. Each form of government makes a claim as to it's legitimacy, and the student should understand and be able to recite each).

So, personal BELIEF is not the point. Can you RECITE and EXPLAIN (and therefore demonstrate UNDERSTANDING) of the material you are expected to learn in the subject.
29 posted on 04/29/2003 12:31:56 PM PDT by Rebel_Ace (Tags?!? Tags?!? We don' neeeed no stinkin' Tags!)
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To: Dataman
Previous discussion on Free Republic would seem to indicate that the Creationists believe that a letter of recommendation is an entitlement. They also claimed that such letters could not be refused on the basis of civil rights.

How can you miss a point like this. By the same standard you are imposing on Prof. Dinni, then I can demand that you write me a letter of recommendation (without regard to my qualifications, your opinion of my qualifications, your opinion of my skills, ect.). A letter of recommendation is NOT an official form, it is not required, and it is a GIFT that may be freely given, or witheld by anyone, for any reason. Do you give a personal recommendation to everyone, regardless of your opinion of them? If so, your recommendation would soon be totally worthless.

30 posted on 04/29/2003 12:32:21 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: steve-b; gore3000
g3 ...

evolution, as I have said many times is ANTI-SCIENCE.

The central point of science is the discovery of causes and effects and materialist evolution denies it. It proposes random events as the engine of the transformation of species.

This is totally unscientific, it is an attack on science which in order to expand human knowledge and human health and living standards needs to find the causes and effects of how our Universe functions.

Randomness answers nothing and leads to no discoveries.

In fact it opposes scientific inquiry and is a philosophical know-nothingism.

That is why evolution has been popular with the masses and virtually ignored by scientists.

It is ... pseudo-science (( source )) --- for morons.

With a few words such as 'survival of the fittest' and 'natural selection' it seeks to make idiots think they are knowledgeable.

We see the idiocy of evolution and evolutionists daily on these threads. That is why they all repeat the same stock phrases, throw a few links (because they cannot even understand the concepts being discussed), but never give any facts showing their theory to be what they claim it is - the center of science. If it was, they should have no problem doing so. It is not, that's why they cannot.

sop ...

The theory of evolution is just that - a theory.

g3 ...

It may be a theory, but it is not a scientifically supported theory which is what evolutionists claim it to be. Anybody can have a theory about anything. It is whether a theory is valid that is the point. So you have not given any evidence for your side. All you have done is indulge in rhetoric, but you have not shown that evolution is science or have in any way refuted my statement that evolution cannot in fact be science because of its central proposition that 'evolution just happens'.

Such is not science.

539 posted on 03/13/2003 8:59 PM PST by gore3000

31 posted on 04/29/2003 12:33:46 PM PDT by f.Christian (( There (( evolution )) ... but for the grace (( love // Truth )) of God --- go (( WAS )) I . ))
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To: Hodar
"These are not required to graduate, nor are they required to continue your education."

My understanding is that these letters of recommendation are required to enter most medical schools.

32 posted on 04/29/2003 12:34:46 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: Dataman
Are we arguing that the professor can't withhold recommendations because he is paid by the state? Are English professors now required to recommend everyone, even people they think are boobs?
33 posted on 04/29/2003 12:35:01 PM PDT by Taliesan
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To: Hodar
"You can easily see that the fossil record shows that animals change over time."

The only thing bones and fossils prove is that something lived, then died. The rest is assumptions about those bones and fossils.

34 posted on 04/29/2003 12:36:23 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: Remedy
specific proof of their assertion that the origin of all species can be traced to primordial soup.

Article proves its ignorance right here. The writer is clearly too ignorant of evolution to have any credibility regarding it.
35 posted on 04/29/2003 12:36:39 PM PDT by Dimensio
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To: Rebel_Ace
The whole point of posting is to COMMUNICATE with the reader.

You may have found a counter-example.

36 posted on 04/29/2003 12:37:04 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: f.Christian
"...good example of evo babble..."

You write the way you do and you have the STONES to call my posts "Babble"?!?

FROM WEBSTERS:
bab·ble
v. bab·bled, bab·bling, bab·bles
v. intr.
To utter a meaningless confusion of words or sounds

"evo logic epilepsy --- stutter // stupor // fits ! !"

Care to guess which comes closer to "babble"?
37 posted on 04/29/2003 12:37:33 PM PDT by Rebel_Ace (Tags?!? Tags?!? We don' neeeed no stinkin' Tags!)
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To: Dimensio
"The writer is clearly too ignorant of evolution to have any credibility regarding it."

True, the theory of evolution does not generally attempt to explain how life first began. Evolutionists just skip over anything that would cause someone to question the theory.

38 posted on 04/29/2003 12:40:06 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: MEGoody
My understanding is that these letters of recommendation are required to enter most medical schools.

They may, or may not help. Of the MD's I know personally, the opinions they expressed as to who got into Med School were based on grades, scores and the personal interviews. However, undergrad grades and scores on the MCAD are going to be the primary determing factor, unless you are a minority (but that's an unrelated topic to this article). The overall feeling was that unless the letter of recommendation was from a REALLY well placed researcher (Nobel winner for Cancer research as an example) the letters were of little significance.

39 posted on 04/29/2003 12:43:03 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Rebel_Ace
fc ...

What do you call this ...

ra ...

a sign of intelligence? Then I would have to ask, would belief in TWO Gods be even smarter? How about THREE?

fc ... zoo science --- religion // kennel !

40 posted on 04/29/2003 12:44:17 PM PDT by f.Christian (( There (( evolution )) ... but for the grace (( love // Truth )) of God --- go (( WAS )) I . ))
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To: Dataman
Well, they're certainly not and so they can use whatever criteria they want for signing up on their message board. However, they must have a reason why they don't allow people who don't subscribe to their brand of (YEC) creationism.
As far as I know there are no "Evolution" boards that don't allow creationists to sign up.
41 posted on 04/29/2003 12:44:28 PM PDT by BMCDA (Atheists do not so much reject God as bad arguments in His favor)
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To: Dataman
The only blind followers are those who do not question. Science is nothing else except questions. It is not and never has been an organized dogma. People who study evolution are always challenging existing information. Atheism doesn't enter into the mix. Either you believe in God or you don't. It's not a pre-requisite and nothing's written in cement. Take a basic physical anthropology course
and you will understand how hypotheses are constantly under scrutiny.
42 posted on 04/29/2003 12:45:15 PM PDT by stanz
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To: Hodar
Been there, done that. Do you defenders of bigotry have any NEW or even ORIGINAL ideas? Hey- if it's as simple as you say, there's nothing to worry about.
43 posted on 04/29/2003 12:45:22 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: MEGoody
True, the theory of evolution does not generally attempt to explain how life first began. Evolutionists just skip over anything that would cause someone to question the theory.

Evolution only deals with existing imperfect self-replicators. Given that it is known generally how those self-replicators operate, how those self-replicators ultimately came into being has no bearing whatsoever on the theory of evolution. Gravitational theory deals with objects that have mass, but it does not try to address how those objects with mass ultimately came into being, yet I see no one trying to use that as a challenge to gravitational theory.

The attempt to link the origins of life with evolution is a creationist diversionary tactic. The creationist claim that the seperation of the two concepts is an evolutionist copout is a blatant lie.
44 posted on 04/29/2003 12:46:04 PM PDT by Dimensio
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To: Taliesan
You guys need to come up with analogy that works. The reductio ad absurdum pit that you fall into is getting full.
45 posted on 04/29/2003 12:47:43 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: BMCDA
The subject is Dini. The Think Peas remark is a red herring.
46 posted on 04/29/2003 12:49:01 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: stanz
Science is nothing else except questions. It is not and never has been an organized dogma.

What is your unbiased authoritative source for that remark?

From the article:

Dini claimed that "one can validly refer to the ‘fact’ of human evolution, even if all of the details are not yet known."

A little dogmatic, isn't it?

47 posted on 04/29/2003 12:51:20 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: f.Christian
"...zoo science --- religion // kennel !..."

Oh, I am so sorry. I understand now. I regret that I did not fully appreciate your arguments or points before. Man, once I read:

"...zoo science --- religion // kennel !..."

that did it for me! The light went on! Golly, how could I have been so dense. Thank you for being so patient with me.
48 posted on 04/29/2003 12:51:46 PM PDT by Rebel_Ace (Tags?!? Tags?!? We don' neeeed no stinkin' Tags!)
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To: Dimensio; FactQuest
To: f.Christian

I've struggled with this for years. First being fully indoctrinated on young earth creationism (before it had that name), then being fully indoctrinated with evolutionary naturalism.

Never have fully sorted it out, but I have reached a few conclusions.

I. The Bible is open to some limited interpretation. Day-age, for starters. Which hebrew words are used for "made"? For that matter, look at what leading Jewish theologians say about it, its vastly different that what they teach in mainstream protestant sunday school.

II. Science itself is not anti-God. It is a study of that which God has made, and can provide a multitude of lessons about the nature of God.

III. Science is limited to naturalistic assumptions. Meaning, being based on repeatable experiments, it [i]a priori[/i] excludes the miraculous. Some misunderstand this and conclude miracles are impossible. No, they are just not subject to investigation by science, because they are by their very nature non-natural, non-repeatable.

IV. The Theory of Evolution is a mixture of good and bad science, and advocated zealously by the naturalists. The naturalists seem to think that the T-of-E removes the need for a God. Ignoring the whole question of where did the universe come from in the first place.

V. The two single biggest problems for the T-of-E are macroevolution and abiogenesis.

A) Abiogenesis, that life arose from inorganic material, is, scientifically, a discipline in shambles. A lot of time and energy spent, a lot of speculations made, and so far, nothing but some impossible speculations to show for it.

Oddly ... the impossibilities are suppressed --- the cleverness of the speculation trumpeted, and in some quarters people think its already proven.

B) Macro-evolution - perhaps a bad term. I mean to say, descent with change is proven - children differ from their parents, over time this can lead to changes in a species.

But, the assumption or speculation that this accounts for the grand diveristy of all life on the planet has not been proven, and in fact, scientifically, is a huge and largely unsupported leap. Put another way: the fossil record supports this theory very poorly.

7 posted on 04/28/2003 8:03 AM PDT by FactQuest

49 posted on 04/29/2003 12:54:00 PM PDT by f.Christian (( There (( evolution )) ... but for the grace (( love // Truth )) of God --- go (( WAS )) I . ))
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To: Remedy
Professor Dini was accused of engaging in overt religious discrimination..

Anti-evolution is NOT religous based .... except when it is useful.

News Alert

Baghdad Bob refuses to take top anti-evolutionist PR position. Bob is quoted as saying "Being a spokesman for anti-evolution would ruin my creditability."

50 posted on 04/29/2003 12:55:25 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon
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