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WHO or WHOM? A 90% Trick
Self | 30APR03 | bannie

Posted on 04/30/2003 6:15:29 PM PDT by bannie

In a recent thread, we discussed teachers' various abilities/inabilities. With the banter about math "blocks," I had to start calling people on the frequent mis-usage of the pronoun "that."

I teased others--and I hope the understood my playful intent! Even true mathematicians can make simple mistakes in math. Likewise, even true grammarians can make simple mistakes in grammar. I only made note because of the subject of the thread (An English teacher who was having trouble passing a required math test).

In the thread, I mentioned that I could give a quick-fix lesson on how to determine whether one should use the pronoun "who" or the pronoun "whom."

The Rule:
WHO = SUBJECTIVE
WHOM = OBJECTIVE
or...
While "who" holds the grammatical position of a SUBJECT, "whom" holds the grammatical position of an OBJECT.
Subject = the "doer." Object = the DIRECT OBJECT or the INDIRECT OBJECT or the OBJECT of a preposition...the "do-ee."

THE TRICK:

IF replacing the who/whom in question with HE--simply because it SOUNDS BETTER--use WHO.

IF replacing the who/whom in question with HIM--simply because it SOUNDS BETTER--use WHOM.

IE:
With the question:

To who/whom should I give the "Offed by a Clinton" Award?

Try replacing the space with each, "he" and "him."
Although it's not totally "sensical," the better sounding choice is...

To HIM should I give...

(more clearly, Should I give the "Offed by a Clinton" award to HIM?
SOOOOOooooo...since "HIM" = "WHOM,"

the correct "who/whom-ness" of the question should be:

To WHOM should I give...?

IE:
Who/Whom was the oldest goat in the pool?

Try replacing the space with each, "he" and "him."

It makes much more sense to the ear to replace the who/whom with:

He was the oldest...

than with:

Him was the oldest...

SOOOOOoooooo....since "HE" = "WHO"...

The answer is...WHO was the oldest goat in the pool?


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: grammar
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To: CharacterCounts
Rework the questions. 'Do you trust him" or 'Do you trust he'.
51 posted on 04/30/2003 7:07:21 PM PDT by plusone
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To: aruanan
Isn't that supposed to be I before E except after C?

I was quoting Yankeedame there for another (characteristically inane) purpose, but yeah.

I once wrote a Snobol program which corrected text based on the rule "I before E except after C or when spoken as A as in neighbor, sleigh, aweigh, inveigh, ...."

52 posted on 04/30/2003 7:09:39 PM PDT by Erasmus
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To: CharacterCounts
Restructure your sentence to rephrase the question or make a statement. For example: Do you trust he? or Do you trust him?
53 posted on 04/30/2003 7:10:10 PM PDT by Emily RN
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To: T'wit
I remember that place. There was restaurant in back with a sign you could see from the highway that said, "Eat here and get gas."
54 posted on 04/30/2003 7:10:49 PM PDT by Rocky
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To: bannie
A quick quiz:

"There are a lot" or "There is a lot"?

The Wall Street Journal editor seems to think the former (yesterday's WSJ.) And so, to be consistent, should we be saying "there is many"? Heck, I can do as well (as good?) Can I have a glamourous editor job too also?

55 posted on 04/30/2003 7:10:49 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Subvert the conspiracy of inanimate objects!)
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To: Erasmus
Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Gives Willingly.

That's the mnemonic to recall the standard Resistor Code in electronics - black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white. Kinda neat, huh.
56 posted on 04/30/2003 7:11:19 PM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: Senator Pardek
Who do they remind you of?

That's a tricky one, but you nailed it! "Who" is doing the "reminding", not "you".

I disagree, "whom" goes with "them" and "him". "They remind you of whom? They remind you of him?"

57 posted on 04/30/2003 7:13:21 PM PDT by Anamensis (Ithaca, Hollywood... America is like an oreo cookie; the good stuff's in the middle.)
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To: Freedom4US
Yeah,neat, but move to another country speaking a different language and you'll be blowing their fuses!
58 posted on 04/30/2003 7:13:48 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Subvert the conspiracy of inanimate objects!)
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To: T'wit
I remember a very early self-service gasoline
 chain in the Dip Suth named
"HEP-UR-SEF."

I remember driving past a house with attached garden patch in
North Carolina with a sign out front saying 'garden fresh pickles.'
Do they water the cucumbers with vinegar, you think?

59 posted on 04/30/2003 7:13:49 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma
I learned it this way:

My Very Educated Mother Just Showed Us Nine Planets.

BTW...does anybody else remember ROY G. BIV and Chief SohCahToa?

Regards,
60 posted on 04/30/2003 7:13:54 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid
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To: Ditter
You probably think that to 'cooperate' means to shut your chickens inside.
61 posted on 04/30/2003 7:16:38 PM PDT by Erasmus
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To: Erasmus
Good boys do fine always.
62 posted on 04/30/2003 7:17:12 PM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: Anamensis
"They" are doing the reminding, and "they" = "who".
63 posted on 04/30/2003 7:17:28 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: CharacterCounts
Or, in order from West to East, SMHEO.
64 posted on 04/30/2003 7:17:53 PM PDT by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: CharacterCounts
Cello player?
65 posted on 04/30/2003 7:18:12 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: T'wit
A generation has forgotten the difference between the singular and plural. For example, how many times have you heard: "There's a lot of people...." People is, of course, plural. So it should be: There are people. The interjection of a prepositional phrase doesn't change that. There are [a lot of] people.
66 posted on 04/30/2003 7:18:18 PM PDT by gaspar
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To: VermiciousKnid
Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo Violet?
67 posted on 04/30/2003 7:18:29 PM PDT by Anamensis (Ithaca, Hollywood... America is like an oreo cookie; the good stuff's in the middle.)
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To: Anamensis
Bingo!

Any idea on Chief SohCahToa?
68 posted on 04/30/2003 7:19:17 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid
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To: Rocky
While we are on the subject of word usage...

(I am not kidding) The following appeared in my church bulletin last Sunday at the end of a paragraph about a fund-raising dessert: "Donations gladly excepted!"

I meant to ask how much they collected...
69 posted on 04/30/2003 7:19:49 PM PDT by FollowingTheGrace
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To: beckett
How about this for a change in the language:

"Whoever the person was who wrote this, they need to confess immediately."

You can't say "he". That would be sexist. You can't say "he/she". That would be awkward. You can't say "he" half the time, and "she" the other half of the time. That would be stupid. Next you'll have to register each usage with a central clearinghouse to determine which pronoun you should use next. (Also, if you say "she" in any negative context, you are obviously suggesting that the wrongdoer is a female. Another sexist presumption.) So you are stuck with using a plural pronoun to describe a single person.
70 posted on 04/30/2003 7:20:14 PM PDT by Rocky
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To: gaspar
Nope. There are many people, but there is one lot of people, me thinks. "There is one [or 'a'] lot of people"
71 posted on 04/30/2003 7:20:27 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Subvert the conspiracy of inanimate objects!)
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To: Senator Pardek
I understand what you're saying but I'm pretty sure that's not how this one would pan out. There's a preposition there. Where there's a preposition, you get whom, him, them. Apply the old "never end a sentence with a preposition" rule and see what you get.
72 posted on 04/30/2003 7:20:52 PM PDT by Anamensis (Ithaca, Hollywood... America is like an oreo cookie; the good stuff's in the middle.)
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To: Senator Pardek
Who do they remind you of?

Then what word is the object of "of" in that sentence, if not the "who"? If it's an object, it should be "whom".

73 posted on 04/30/2003 7:21:00 PM PDT by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: VermiciousKnid
Any idea on Chief SohCahToa?

No idea, sorry...

74 posted on 04/30/2003 7:22:58 PM PDT by Anamensis (Ithaca, Hollywood... America is like an oreo cookie; the good stuff's in the middle.)
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To: Erasmus
I don't have any chickens.
75 posted on 04/30/2003 7:23:40 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: ProudToBeGOP
"Donations gladly excepted!"

I wish I had $100 for every time I've seen the word "excellerated." I once saw it written this way by an high school advanced English teacher.

76 posted on 04/30/2003 7:23:58 PM PDT by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: Anamensis
Apply the old "never end a sentence with a preposition" rule and see what you get.

To quote Winston Churchill, "This is the kind of nonsense up with which I will not put."

77 posted on 04/30/2003 7:24:19 PM PDT by Erasmus
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To: VermiciousKnid
And aren't these also supposed to be in the order of their distance from the sun?
78 posted on 04/30/2003 7:25:58 PM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: bannie
Know any tricks for hence, thence, and whence?
79 posted on 04/30/2003 7:26:50 PM PDT by Fifth Business
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To: gaspar
An interesting discussion of there there.
80 posted on 04/30/2003 7:27:07 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Subvert the conspiracy of inanimate objects!)
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To: bannie
The little tongue twisted we used to chant as a reference was:

Who holds whom for whom?
For whom does who hold what?


81 posted on 04/30/2003 7:27:48 PM PDT by TaxRelief
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To: Rocky
I hear you, Rocky.

I, however, will NEVER give in to the PC crowd. I will go right on using "he" when it is appropriate, and I will teach my children to use the proper wording, too. Anyone who complains can stick it.

Regards,
82 posted on 04/30/2003 7:29:09 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid
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To: Erasmus
"Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Violet Goes Willingly"

I learned this one differently:

Batman Bl*w Robin On Yonder Gotham Bridge. Very Good Work.
83 posted on 04/30/2003 7:30:28 PM PDT by Poser
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma
Yes, they are in order. Usually. I believe that Uranus and Pluto occasionally switch orbits, but I wouldn't bet my last nickel on that.

I'm sure some astronomy whiz here on FR will be able to tell you for sure.

Regards,
84 posted on 04/30/2003 7:30:45 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid
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To: Senator Pardek
Cello player?

High School boys glee club dropout!

85 posted on 04/30/2003 7:32:34 PM PDT by CharacterCounts
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Comment #86 Removed by Moderator

To: bannie
How does this affect bunnies?
87 posted on 04/30/2003 7:32:59 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: bannie

"Whom luvs ya, baby?!"

88 posted on 04/30/2003 7:33:43 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Subvert the conspiracy of inanimate objects!)
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Comment #89 Removed by Moderator

To: Anamensis
Remember your trigonometry? I don't. (LOL) Actually, just about the ONLY thing I remember from trig is Chief SohCahToa.

SOH = Sine = Opposite/Hypotenuse
CAH = Cosine = Adjacent/Hypotenuse
TOA = Tangent = Opposite/Adjacent

Regards,
90 posted on 04/30/2003 7:34:50 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid
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To: Fifth Business
Whence he comes, thence he goes, hence he comes again.

Means: From where he comes, from then he goes and he will come again.
91 posted on 04/30/2003 7:36:17 PM PDT by TaxRelief (That really helped, huh?)
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To: VermiciousKnid
That's Neptune & Pluto... in fact, Pluto only within the last few years crossed back and once again became the more distant planet.
92 posted on 04/30/2003 7:36:24 PM PDT by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: bannie
The Whom:


93 posted on 04/30/2003 7:37:07 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Subvert the conspiracy of inanimate objects!)
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To: Sloth
See? I KNEW somebody would know for sure! Thanks, Sloth.

Regards,
94 posted on 04/30/2003 7:38:13 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma
Mother Visits Every Sunday Just Stays Until Noon Period.
95 posted on 04/30/2003 7:38:58 PM PDT by pbear8 ( sed libera nos a malo)
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To: Revolting cat!
LOL. That's funny!
96 posted on 04/30/2003 7:39:09 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid
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To: VermiciousKnid
SohCahToa

Sine = Opposite/Hypotenuse
Cosine = Adjacent/Hypotenuse
Tangent = Opposite/Adjacent
97 posted on 04/30/2003 7:39:20 PM PDT by Rocky
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To: bannie
Them:


98 posted on 04/30/2003 7:40:44 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Subvert the conspiracy of inanimate objects!)
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To: Rocky
Use one/one's to keep it singular. I don't care if 'he' is sexist: I still use the masculine whenever I desire. They'll get over it. No other language has tried to eliminate the feminine/masculine.
99 posted on 04/30/2003 7:41:04 PM PDT by TaxRelief
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To: bannie

Whom do you love?
100 posted on 04/30/2003 7:41:38 PM PDT by openotherend (I'm their leader! Which way did they go?)
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