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THE ROOTS OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL LIBERTY (Authentic American Political Philosophy)
The Institute for American Liberty ^ | 1997 | J. David Gowdy

Posted on 05/01/2003 11:40:34 PM PDT by unspun

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To: Truthsearcher
Like I said, it's refreshing to hear someone admit that they believe because they dare not do otherwise, not because they really... well... BELIEVE.
51 posted on 05/02/2003 8:33:55 PM PDT by Anamensis
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To: MrLeRoy
"Indeed---but where did any of the Founders say that government could create virtue in the people, or that government was even fit to decide what "virtue" is? "


That's kind of the point. The government is OF the people not vice versa. Without virtue in the people, you'd have government dictating what virtue is. And if you deny virtue completely (or relativise it), the only thing that would matter is power. (Sounds familiar.)
52 posted on 05/03/2003 7:47:17 AM PDT by nosofar
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To: nosofar
"Indeed---but where did any of the Founders say that government could create virtue in the people, or that government was even fit to decide what "virtue" is? "

That's kind of the point. The government is OF the people not vice versa. Without virtue in the people, you'd have government dictating what virtue is. And if you deny virtue completely (or relativise it), the only thing that would matter is power.

That's one point. Another is that it's invalid to go from 'morality is necessary for republican governance' to 'we must impose moral behavior by law', as many supporters of moralistic laws like the War On Some Drugs do.

53 posted on 05/05/2003 6:43:45 AM PDT by MrLeRoy ("That government is best which governs least.")
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To: Anamensis
You just said (And I say it often) that being a bigot is a good thing. I agree.
54 posted on 05/05/2003 6:47:58 AM PDT by Khepera (Do not remove by penalty of law!)
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To: Anamensis
Like I said, it's refreshing to hear someone admit that they believe because they dare not do otherwise, not because they really... well... BELIEVE.

Why is that refreshing to you?

Cordially,

55 posted on 05/05/2003 12:38:11 PM PDT by Diamond
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To: MrLeRoy
"That's one point. Another is that it's invalid to go from 'morality is necessary for republican governance' to 'we must impose moral behavior by law', as many supporters of moralistic laws like the War On Some Drugs do. "


Imposing morality is exactly what laws are for. All laws are predicated on some moral system. We impose restrictions on theft, murder, etc., for moral reasons. There are practical arguments for such laws, but ultimately laws like these are created because people think behavior like this is morally wrong. The real question is what morality is (or should be) used.

56 posted on 05/07/2003 8:48:18 AM PDT by nosofar
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To: nosofar
"That's one point. Another is that it's invalid to go from 'morality is necessary for republican governance' to 'we must impose moral behavior by law', as many supporters of moralistic laws like the War On Some Drugs do. "

Imposing morality is exactly what laws are for.

Imposing the subset of morality that says "don't violate the rights of others" is exactly what laws are for.

57 posted on 05/07/2003 9:57:03 AM PDT by MrLeRoy ("That government is best which governs least.")
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To: MrLeRoy
Imposing morality is exactly what laws are for.

Imposing the subset of morality that says "don't violate the rights of others" is exactly what laws are for.


And who judges what those rights are? It still comes down to the moral values and beliefs of individuals. It can't be helped. It's implicit in the very idea of government.
58 posted on 05/08/2003 6:04:16 PM PDT by nosofar
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To: nosofar
Imposing the subset of morality that says "don't violate the rights of others" is exactly what laws are for.

And who judges what those rights are?

Rights are defined by man's nature as a free-willed reasoning being; a person has the right to exercise his free will and reason to formulate and pursue his own ends, and not be used as a means to another's ends. These natural rights exclude the fictitious "right" to live in a drug-free world, just as they exclude, e.g., the "right" to free health care.

59 posted on 05/09/2003 6:52:05 AM PDT by MrLeRoy ("That government is best which governs least.")
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