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To: unspun; jmc813
James Madison stated: "To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea."

Indeed---but where did any of the Founders say that government could create virtue in the people, or that government was even fit to decide what "virtue" is?

17 posted on 05/02/2003 6:39:38 AM PDT by MrLeRoy ("That government is best which governs least.")
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To: MrLeRoy
Indeed---but where did any of the Founders say that government could create virtue in the people, or that government was even fit to decide what "virtue" is?

People have to discern such things as virtue and principle and govern themselves by them.

20 posted on 05/02/2003 7:32:46 AM PDT by unspun (It's not about you.)
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To: MrLeRoy
"Indeed---but where did any of the Founders say that government could create virtue in the people, or that government was even fit to decide what "virtue" is? "


That's kind of the point. The government is OF the people not vice versa. Without virtue in the people, you'd have government dictating what virtue is. And if you deny virtue completely (or relativise it), the only thing that would matter is power. (Sounds familiar.)
52 posted on 05/03/2003 7:47:17 AM PDT by nosofar
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