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Chat room spy irks descendants - woman says she wanted Hemings kin out of Jefferson reunion
Associated Press ^ | May 3, 2003 | Associated Press Staff

Posted on 05/03/2003 7:49:53 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP

Chat room spy irks descendants

Woman says she wanted Hemings kin out of Jefferson reunion


Associated Press

ROANOKE, Va. – Relatives of reputed Thomas Jefferson mistress Sally Hemings say their Internet chat group was infiltrated by the head of the Jefferson family association, who pretended to be a 67-year-old black woman.

But Nat Abeles says the real spy was his wife, who admitted to the subterfuge to help in her husband's efforts to keep the slave descendants out of the annual Jefferson reunion this weekend.

"This started out as a prank," said Paulie Abeles of Washington D.C., who participated for eight months in the Yahoo! message board created for Hemings family members.

"It might have been somewhat unethical. It might have been childish ... but I really think I was working in the best interest of the majority of the family members to make the reunion a calm and civilized gathering."

The admission has rankled members of both families on the eve of the family's annual reunion at Jefferson's hilltop estate in Charlottesville.

Even though the Hemings clan was formally excluded from membership last year, some members of the Jefferson family Monticello Association continue to invite slave descendants to accompany them at the group's annual cocktail party and cemetery visit.

David Works, who claims to be a sixth-generation grandson of the union of Jefferson and Hemings, said he has asked federal authorities to investigate the matter.

'This is serious'

"This isn't a fraternity house panty raid – this is serious," said Mr. Works, who supervised the Internet group and traced messages to Ms. Abeles' computer.

Ms. Abeles said she was curious in August when she found out the Hemings family was communicating through an Internet group, but she thought her name would have made it difficult to be included.

So Cassandra Mays-Lewis was born. In her Yahoo! profile, Ms. Abeles made Cassandra a descendant of Jefferson's blacksmith and slave Joe Fossett, describing herself as having an interest in black genealogy. In her messages, she played the part of an elderly woman, stricken with emphysema, thanking Mr. Works for his "kind attentions to an old woman."

Ms. Abeles said she never told her husband about Cassandra until a few days ago when Mr. Works discovered she was a fake. Instead, Ms. Abeles said she informed her husband of the Hemingses' conversations by having Cassandra send him e-mails.

"The information itself was quite valuable," Mr. Abeles said. "They were planning on all kinds of ways to get people in and trying to trick people into making inappropriate comments."

Lucian Truscott IV, a Jefferson descendant who believes the Hemings family should be recognized, said it is clear from the Internet messages that the real impostor was Mr. Abeles, not his wife.

"He's using his wife as a human shield," said Mr. Truscott, who usually invites the Hemings family to come to the reunion en masse.

Rules, what rules?

Mr. Truscott said that when the Hemings family started discussing the reunion on the Yahoo! site about three months ago, Mr. Abeles promptly told the Jefferson family they were only allowed to bring two guests each.

When Mr. Truscott tried to accommodate the few dozen Hemingses by getting invitations from other Jefferson family members, including some who weren't planning on attending the event, Mr. Abeles countered by telling association members they had to be present to bring guests.

Then Mr. Truscott thought of using junior members – teenagers planning on attending the event with their parents – to sponsor the Hemings family. Again, Mr. Abeles said that only full members were allowed to bring guests.

"Every time we'd think of a way to get the Hemingses there, he'd come up with a new rule," Mr. Works said.

Hemings descendant Jill Sim said she finds the whole thing insulting.

"It really was a stupid thing to do," said Ms. Sim, 33, a writer who lives outside Charlottesville. "Because you have the president of the association, who could have asked to join the list. ... It feels like a mockery."

Ms. Sim, who says she is descended from a Sally Hemings sibling, finds some poetic justice in the fact that, if only for a few days in cyberspace, a Hemings descendant was president of the Monticello Association.

"It's a wonderful twist of fate," she said. "It's very surreal."

Online at:

TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Texas; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: chatroom; monticello; sallyhemings; slavery; thomasjefferson; virginia
Hmmm? Interesting.
1 posted on 05/03/2003 7:49:53 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: MeeknMing
Just off the cuff, one would think that wanting to claim descendence from a slave loving Founder would be embarrassing. Why try to connect to what you hate? Somehow $$$$ maybe?????
2 posted on 05/03/2003 8:06:59 AM PDT by widowithfoursons
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To: MeeknMing
Hemmings was probably impregnated by Thomas Jefferson's relative, who by all accounts, was fascinated with all things African. Hemmings herself was the half sister of Jefferson's first wife.

Lucian Truscott IV is a flaming jerk, and not as good a writer as his dad. On the other hand, his less well known brother, James Truscott, is a gentleman. Ah well, it happens in the best of families.

Lucian Truscott III, the commander of the Third Infantry division in Sicily and commander of the 3rd Army after Patton's relief, was also a gentleman. His "Command Missions" is the best read of all the general's memoirs of the second world war.
3 posted on 05/03/2003 8:11:40 AM PDT by donmeaker (Time is Relative, at least in my family.)
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To: MeeknMing
Perhaps we could loan them an Admin Moderator for some ZOT! action.
4 posted on 05/03/2003 8:16:17 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Ohioan

Have a look at this.

5 posted on 05/03/2003 8:25:09 AM PDT by J. L. Chamberlain
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To: MeeknMing
This is series.
6 posted on 05/03/2003 8:40:29 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Drug prohibition laws help support terrorism.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim
LOL ! :O)
7 posted on 05/03/2003 9:15:34 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Dixie Chimps! / Check out my Freeper site !:
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Yep ! Really hugh ! :O)

Greetings from the Breaking News Shower Crowd .

8 posted on 05/03/2003 9:17:50 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Dixie Chimps! / Check out my Freeper site !:
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To: J. L. Chamberlain
Thank you for the heads up. My own previous correspondence with the bad apple of the Truscott clan, over these antics, is on the web at Correspondence on Media Smear Of Thomas Jefferson.

To put this whole silly business into perspective, take out the racial aspect for a moment, and imagine that descendants of an inn keeper's daughter impregnated by Richard The Lion Hearted, or some other English hero, sought admission to a family gathering at Buckingham Palace. The only reason that this Truscott/Hemings play gets any attention or mileage is precisely because the Left has got rooted Americans in an apologetic mode over just about everything today. Will it stop this side of total chaos? I am beginning to wonder. Common sense is virtually dead!

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

9 posted on 05/03/2003 9:31:41 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: donmeaker
I think it's interesting that the Hemmings that have been the most vocal about being Jefferson descendents were proven not to be descendents.

And the ones who never had too much to do with that claim are the ones that the DNA proved to be fathered by SOME Jefferson male.

Personally, I think it probably was Jefferson in at least one case.

I can't remember which one, but there is a granddaughter that looks just like him, on the Hemmings side.
10 posted on 05/03/2003 9:36:16 AM PDT by Jael (The WE? It's "WE the people". You know, of "In order to form a more perfect union" fame)
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To: donmeaker
Jefferson's nephews were not the fathers of Hemmings children that is easily shown to be false. That was a claim concocted years after J's death by his daughter and others attempting to deflect criticism of her father by those pointing to Sally. They tried to claim Jefferson was the children's father as the evidence clearly shows.

As you said Sally was Martha's half sister. She was 1/8 black. Jefferson had promised Martha on her deathbed never to remarry. Sally and his affair was not one of explotation of a slave by a master but was a long-lived loving affair of 30 yrs. I am not a Jefferson fan by any means but do not point to this as one of his major faults. Sally was intelligent, discrete, spoke French and probably looked a great deal like his wife.

Her children and relatives were highly favored by J. and were the only slaves freed by Jefferson or his estate. One of her sons was taught to play the violin (which J also played) and the only reason she was not freed was that at the time of his death freed slaves HAD to leave Virginia. Since her relatives were there she did not want to leave MOnticello.
11 posted on 05/03/2003 10:45:48 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: Ohioan
Whatever. Jefferson was the father of Sally's children.
12 posted on 05/03/2003 10:46:50 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: Jael
All of her children were Jefferson's and all looked a great deal like him. The daughter was allowed to "run away" to Pennsylvania. All looked virtually white since their mother was only 1/8 black.
13 posted on 05/03/2003 10:49:25 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
No, the oldest ones were not Jeffersons, DNS says. I think the youngest four were proven to have some male Jefferson DNA. They look like him. The older ones do not. I think that Sally Hemmings was more than 1/8 black, but was by all accounts a very lovely woman.
14 posted on 05/03/2003 10:51:26 AM PDT by Jael (The WE? It's "WE the people". You know, of "In order to form a more perfect union" fame)
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To: MeeknMing
David Works, who claims to be a sixth-generation grandson of the union of Jefferson and Hemings, said he has asked federal authorities to investigate the matter.

Calling in the Feds? Was the Viking Kitties' line busy?

15 posted on 05/03/2003 10:55:36 AM PDT by stands2reason
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To: justshutupandtakeit
The evidence that Jefferson had anything to do with the conception of any of Sally Hemings' children is highly suspect. (See Civil War, Reconstruction & Creating Hate In America Today.)

As kin of his wife, and a trusted house servant of his daughter, Jefferson would naturally have wanted to see Sally Hemings and her children treated well. That is no evidence of paternity. The one (not seven) shown to have a possible DNA connection to Jefferson's father, may well indicate an involvement with a male Jefferson, but the probability is that such male Jefferson was not Thomas.

William Flax

16 posted on 05/03/2003 11:12:17 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: stands2reason
Calling in the Feds? Was the Viking Kitties' line busy?

Hmm? I've never found it busy:

Viking Kittens - Led Zeppelin - Immigrant Song

17 posted on 05/03/2003 12:56:04 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Dixie Chimps! / Check out my Freeper site !:
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To: Ohioan
DNA is not the evidence of proof that is significant. And I agree the story a few years ago that "proved" paternity was ludicrous as science or evidence. No serious researcher believes that testing another Jefferson's DNA is proof of Jefferson's paternity. The proof lies in the fact that Sally ONLY conceived within the time periods when Jefferson was at MOnticello (or France) and that all her children were freed when no other house servants were. Actually no slaves were freed who were not connected to the Hemings family.

Then there was the visual evidence of resemblence of the children to Jefferson marked by many contemporaries including red hair. And the highly favored treatment of the family.

The fact that one of her sons was taught to play the violin at Monticello (and allowed to have one to play) is to me the sort of little detail which (while irrelevent in court perhaps) rings too true for this story to be false.

I love the fact that his favored character assassin turned against him and spread the story. It may have been the only time he was telling the truth.
18 posted on 05/03/2003 6:27:16 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: Jael
She, her mother and grandmother all had white fathers.

The family legend was that she was pregnant when she returned from France. There may be problems with that but I have seen no real proof she wasn't.

The most significant proof to me is the highly unusual treatment given all her descendents and family. NO other slaves were freed from that estate.

Pro-Jefferson historians began to cover up the story by the mid-1800s but none of their reasoning or proof stand up to analysis.

I think Sally had other features than her beauty which appealed to J. not the least of which was her ability to speak French. J. virtually worshipped anything French.
19 posted on 05/03/2003 7:10:36 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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Hemings kin attend Monticello event
But slave's descendants were only invited guests


CHARLOTTESVILLE - About 20 descendants of slave Sally Hemings milled about the historic estate of her owner, Thomas Jefferson, as the annual reunion of his family got under way yesterday.

Unlike last year, the Hemings descendants arrived at Monticello only as invited guests - not as potential members of the Monticello Association, the private club of Jefferson's descendants.

About 80 people in all drank spirits and ate hor d'oeurves at the reception, which opens the association's annual meetings.

DNA tests have linked Thomas Jefferson's family to at least one of Sally Hemings' children. Still, the association voted overwhelmingly last year to keep the Hemingses out of the Jefferson club.

In the wake of that perceived snub, Hemings descendant Michele Cooley considered her family's presence a victory.

"We have developed a foundation that is unifying for Monticello members, the Hemings family and the Woodsons," said Cooley, of Baltimore.

Cooley and her sister, Lisa Cooley, had to wait 30 minutes after the start of the reception at 6 p.m. because their sponsor in the association had not arrived.

Lisa Cooley linked their presence to the cause of the civil-rights movement for which their grandfather, Petersburg lawyer Robert H. Cooley Jr., had fought.

"It's about the ability to walk in through the front door," Lisa Cooley said.

Rules of sponsorship have been the center of heated exchanges among Monticello members during the weeks leading up to this weekend's gathering. That discussion led to a roil over an Internet impersonation that will probably result in an attempt to oust Nathaniel Abeles as association president.

Last year, Lucian Truscott IV, an association member from Los Angeles who embraces the Hemings claim, invited 26 Hemings family members to the reunion as guests. Since then, Abeles and the group leadership limited guest invitations to two per member.

In recent weeks, Abeles chided certain Jeffersons over plans to get the Hemings family members to this year's meeting as guests. Abeles had learned of plans to get Hemings invitations for children of Monticello members and adult members who couldn't attend.

John H. Works Jr., a former president of the Monticello Association, called attempts to draw Hemingses to the annual gathering disruptive, especially in light of last year's vote.

"This is not appropriate behavior. They're trying to create issues that really don't exist," Works said. The fact that there were so few Hemingses at the event showed that most Monticello members don't want a deluge of the Hemingses at their private functions, he added.

He and Truscott got into an animated debate in front of the Jefferson mansion over rules and past recriminations during the taping of a television interview.

Guest rules will likely play a prominent role during the association's business meeting today at the downtown Charlottesville Omni.

Abeles learned about invitation plans from discussions on a private Yahoo! Internet chat group for Monticello members and the Hemings family. Last week, the moderator of the group, Jefferson descendant David Works, discovered that a group member claiming to be a Hemings descendant was an impostor. Works traced the impersonation to Abeles' computer.

Abeles claims his wife, Paulie Abeles, had infiltrated the group and monitored discussion for eight months without telling her husband about the ruse. The impostor, using the name Cassandra Mays-Lewis, forwarded e-mail to Nathaniel Abeles, the president claims.

Abeles said his wife confessed to the impersonation after Works confronted the president about the trace. Abeles said he forced his wife to resign from the chat group Thursday. He issued Works a letter of apology to the chat-group members Friday.

Works and Truscott, both association members and Hemings sympathizers, dismiss Abeles' explanation. They believe he lied about his own impersonation and should be removed as president.

Works will present to the membership a series of e-mails issued to chat-group members over a three-hour overnight span from Abeles' computer. Some used the president's name. Others used the fake "Cassandra Lewis" identity, Truscott said.

Another point of contention has been the family's traditional visit to their ancestral gravesite, where only Jefferson descendants can be buried. Abeles has barred non-Monticello members from participating in today's visit on the property near the Jefferson mansion. His opponents vowed to disregard that rule.

The Hemings issue has been ongoing for five years. In 1998, DNA tests lent credence to a long-held suspicion that Jefferson fathered some of Hemings' children. The tests showed that a Jefferson male fathered Hemings' youngest son, Eston.

The results did not conclude that Jefferson himself was the father, but included him among about 24 Jefferson men who lived in Virginia at the time who could have fathered Eston Hemings.

Contact Calvin R. Trice at (540) 574-9977 or
20 posted on 05/04/2003 1:43:26 PM PDT by Ligeia
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This year may be last for Jefferson-Hemings reunion

Associated Press Writer May 04, 2003

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (AP) _ Under a steady drizzle, Michele Cooley waited by the roadside as a crowd of Thomas Jefferson descendants filed into shuttles and drove to the family's hilltop estate.

Cooley, a descendant of Jefferson's reputed slave mistress Sally Hemings, also came for the annual reunion, but this year the Hemingses were told they needed to be escorted by a willing Jefferson family member.

"So I'm waiting," Cooley said, scanning the crowd for her sponsor. "Every year I feel so uncomfortable because you know people don't want us to be here. But I still feel victorious because my family has developed so many friendships with some of them."

Four years after DNA tests found a link between the Jefferson and Hemings families, the two groups have grown far apart, divided by Jeffersons who refuse to consider any sexual relationship between their famous patriarch and his slave, and vocal members of both families who want the Hemings clan recognized despite any definitive scientific evidence they were fathered by the third president.

In the past year, the Jefferson family's Monticello Associaiton excluded the Hemingses from membership and prohibited its members from allowing more than two Hemings guests each at the reunion.

Many Hemings family members say they're tired of all the infighting, and they've decided to plan their own Monticello reunion in July.

"We're going to have speeches and African-American dancing _ it's going to be totally different," said Julia Westerinen, a Hemings descendant who is organizing the event.

The weekend reunion was quiet this year, attended by about 80 of the Monticello Association's 800 members and a dozen of the 2,500 people who claim Hemings as an ancestor.

The rain continued to sprinkle as families huddled under umbrellas and mingled between tables of crackers and cheese. Children in sport coats still played tag on Monticello's west porch despite the rain, and cousins thrust themselves in front of TV cameras to debate their version of family history.

Thomas Beauchamp, a Jefferson descendant from St. Louis, Mo., said he was tired of having family affairs so political and it wasn't so bad that the new guest policy made it harder for the Hemings to attend.

"I'm not in this fight at all, but if there's a way to make this weekend a little easier, I'm all for it," Beauchamp said.

There was a time, in the 1970s and early 1980s, when the Jefferson cousins would just sit on the porch with a bag of chips and sandwiches they made themselves, he said.

"Why are they (the Hemingses) even coming anymore?" asked John Works Jr., a former Monticello Association president. "They have their own reunion now."

Many family members were still talking about current president Nat Abeles and his wife Paulie, who obtained email messages from a private chat group set up for the Hemings family.

Paulie Abeles said she gained access by masquerading as a 67-year-old slave descendant on her Internet profile. When Hemings family members discussed how to find enough Jefferson sponsors to get them invited to the reunion, Paulie forwarded the messages to Nat.

Nat used the information to refine the association's guest acceptance procedures in a way that made it harder for the Hemingses to come.

"That's got to be fraud of some kind," said Ginny Truscott of Seattle, a Jefferson descendant who wants to remove Nat Abeles as president.

Works said he thought the Abeles' actions were justified, given that the chat group kicked off people that its members considered threatening.

"It's not inclusive," he said. "It's discriminatory."

Steve Moyer, a Jefferson descendant from Rochester, NY, said he was on the chat group for about six months before getting kicked off. He said he was appalled by the "vicious, vindictive-type things" the Hemingses were saying about the Jeffersons.

The drama will likely continue because of the opposing personalities in the family, said Lucian Truscott IV, a Jefferson descendant who first invited the Hemings family to the reunions and continues to push for their acceptance within his family.

"Thomas Jefferson never shied from debate, and I'll tell you, we're not going to either."

Some Hemings family members said they weren't sure if they'd ever come back to the Jefferson reunion, especially if they can have their own at Monticello.

"I wasn't even sure I was going to come this year until about a month ago," said Shay Banks-Young. "I guess we'll take it day by day."

On Sunday morning, about 25 members from the two families gathered one more time, bringing daisies to the site where Jefferson's slaves were buried. Holding hands in a broad circle, they prayed together and relished their newfound cousins.

"If (Thomas Jefferson) could look down at us today, he'd say to himself, this is my family," said John Works Sr., a Jefferson descendant.
21 posted on 05/04/2003 1:57:59 PM PDT by Ligeia
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To: justshutupandtakeit
There isn't enough physical evidence to prove that, or even circumstantial evidence. There *is* evidence that "Uncle"Randolf always visited Monticello when Jefferson was home, and spent a good deal of time entertaining himself with the slaves. There are contradictory (hemmings descendant) family tales of who fathered Hemming's children too.

The case for Jefferson's paternity of Hemming's children is weak and there is an equally if not more plausible Jefferson relative for her children. Until the matter is beyond dispute, they should not be considered Thomas Jefferson's direct descendants.

I don't much care one way or the other about Jefferson being the father but I do care that the evidence has been overblown as "proof" when that is absolutely NOT the case.
22 posted on 05/04/2003 1:59:52 PM PDT by SarahW
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To: justshutupandtakeit
But that isn't proof. The Jefferson relative visited when Jefferson each time Jefferson returned to Monticello. The familial resemblance can also be explained this way...
23 posted on 05/04/2003 2:02:55 PM PDT by SarahW
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Until Fawn Brodie persuaded them they were mistaken, the descendants of Eston Hemings were told that his father was not the famous president but "an uncle." Randolph Jefferson was widely known as "Uncle Randolph" at Monticello (because of his relationship to Jefferson's daughters).

An investigator who believed the Jefferson-Hemings story half-a-century ago reported that Hemings descendants had told her that Randolph fathered children by his own slaves. The book Memoirs of a Monticello Slave, by former Monticello blacksmith Isaac Jefferson, reported that when Randolph visited Monticello he would spend his nights playing his fiddle and dancing "half the night" with Monticello slaves. The timing of the birth of Hemmings children also coincided with a time when Uncle Randolph was between wives.

24 posted on 05/04/2003 2:07:40 PM PDT by SarahW
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To: SarahW
Sorry but I don't buy it. There are two Uncles which the Jefferson family tried to pin these births on. But since no birth ever occurred without TJ being availbable for fathering and the children were treated exceptionally well the Uncle link does not hold up for me.

And the births were over a twenty year span, I believe. Women in the Hemmings had a history of long-term linkages with one man and I believe Sally did that as well.

It is not likely that she would have been cavorting with Uncle at slave dances either from what I have read of her.

Fawn Brodie is not the only source of this linkage either and much information is available from the interviews done in the 1870s or 80s with one of Sally's sons. Brodie's book is a good one though and more than likely correct in its essence.

It should also be noted that these children were all quite successful and respected in their communities when they didn't "pass for white" and become anonymous like the girl. That sounds more like TJ than the shiftless ne'er do well uncles.

There is an interesting book about this by a black lady lawyer whose name I forget. I'll try and find it.

You are right that there will likely never be any definitive proof one way or the other and it is not that important. It is a fascinating means of reviewing a long lost society and its human stories.

I am not a Jefferson fan but not for this reason. Actually, I believe the affair shows a lot of positive features J. had. If true, it is a tragedy. Imagine a long-term Love which can never be revealed or acknowledged. How hard that would be.
25 posted on 05/05/2003 8:30:58 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
He wasn't an actual uncle, and it's only RANDOLF JEFFERSON, him specifically, that remains as a serious candidate for paternity of Hemmings children.

When Jefferson returned, so did Uncle Randolf. He has the appropriate tail-male DNA. He *played the violin* - spent much time "fiddling" down by the slave quarters. He is known to have fathered children by his own slaves.

The oral tradition of some Hemmings descendants is that a Jefferson *Uncle* (Randolf Jefferson was referred to as "Uncle" Randolf)was their forebear, not Thomas Jefferson.

Jefferson's preferential freeing of Hemmings children could have as much to do with their physical traits as the possibility he sired any of them. They would have looked nearly white. They wouldn't look like african slaves. The chances of them suceeding as free persons in the wider world was higher. They were certainly related to his wife and his own children!

Randolph Jefferson is as likely, if not more likely, father to Hemmings children as Jefferson is. Until he is eliminated, it is highly irresponsible to claim that the facts "prove" Jefferson's paternity. It's not even close.

I have no vested interest one way or another...but truth is truth. Another perfectly plausible father exists in History.
26 posted on 05/05/2003 9:03:44 AM PDT by SarahW
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To: SarahW
From my reading into this that "plausibility" is not very plausible.

There were other white slaves at Monticello who were not freed either prior to or after J's death. "Appearance" as a reason to free them appears to be an insufficient explanation of the freeing of Hemmings family.

Another claim is that Peter Jefferson was the father.

Annette Gordon-Reed Thomas Jefferson An American Controversy is the book I referenced earlier. It does a good job of examining the various possiblities.
27 posted on 05/05/2003 10:41:44 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
It's at least as plausible, if not more so, than Thomas Jefferson. He was there at the right times, he showed inclination for taking advantage of slaves in that way, he has the right DNA, and is even implicated in the earliest oral histories of Hemmings descendants.

Until he specifically is ruled out, no one can claim it is proved Hemmings line is directly descended from Thomas Jefferson.
28 posted on 05/05/2003 11:37:58 AM PDT by SarahW
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To: SarahW
No one will ever be able to prove it one way or another.
29 posted on 05/05/2003 12:14:48 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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