Parents objected to novel, writing assignment (offended some Native American parents)

okit ^

[dpa5923]

Damn, I hated that book. We should ban it!









Just kidding. . .

[honeygrl]

I hope Walt doesn't see this post....this will end up a Lincoln-Is-Perfect argument thread.

[honeygrl]

hmm.. I've never seen that poem.. but I still don't see how it could be racist. If you substituted "Indian" for "White Guy" no one would fuss and it would still make sense. Not that I think anything should be changed about it. It's fine just like it is. If we censor things for our kids they are going to get a real shock when they get into the real world.

[Billthedrill]

Pity - it's a classic mystery that has been imitated several times on the silver screen. And yes, the original poem was pretty racist, and bore no relation to the "Ten Little Indian Boys" song.

There will come a time when again people are adult enough to realize that although it was offensive, no harm was intended, and it was simply a reflection of the undercurrent of real racism in the society of the day. I'm not sure I'd be anything but amused were it retitled "Ten Little Honkies." Changing the words here isn't really affecting much in the way of addressing real racism any more than "the only good Native American is a dead Native American" serves to help matters in that one.

[honeygrl]

"In modern times, talking about gays and guns is what would get this poem banned in most schools. "

Except in this poem I'm pretty certain gay is used to mean happy rather than homosexual. If Indian was changed to White Boy they'd love the poem probably. The teacher would have the kids writing essays on how guns should be outlawed.

[honeygrl]

I don't think I'm getting the racist aspect of this somehow... is it racist now to use to word Indians?

[chance33_98]

There will come a time when again people are adult enough to realize that although it was offensive, no harm was intended, and it was simply a reflection of the undercurrent of real racism in the society of the day.

Oh they realize it, but only when it is related to things that were done by groups they like. They make excuses all day long for them and point to things being part of their culture, it is historic, blah blah blah.

[shezza]

Or then there is this favorite (thanks to Disney..."Jiminy Cricket" sang the song on an old LP I had as a kid):

Once upon a time there were ten little cannibals
Swingin' on a vine, ,
One tried to pet a big wildcat,
And then there were nine.
One of the nine drank turpentine
And then there were eight.
Then one more fell dead on the floor
And seven was their fate.
One went to politics,
Then there were only six.
One took a dive,
Now five we see.
One went to Singapore,
Then there were only four.
One turned green,
Then there were three.
One fell into some glue,
Then there were only two...
They drank from a loving cup.
One became a skeleton,
Then there was only one,
And he ate himself all up. (What a silly thing to do!)

[Billthedrill]

Oh, heavens yes! They aren't from India, after all. Of course, everyone who was born here is technically a "native" American, so that's out. "Aborigines" is technically correct but carries some semantic baggage the original sense didn't include. Personally I use the phrase "autochthonal peoples." My Indian friends think I'm nuts anyway...

[Rebelbase]

Gay has only one meaning in my kid's school. The word in all its uses is prohibited speech which earns a trip to the pricipal's office if used on campus.

[Dionysius]

You are so right! It will be an easy thing indeed to leave a barren world shaped by political correctness, secular humanism and moral relativism.

[grapeape]

As far as I am concerned the USA has given way too much respect to “the Indians.” I would like to see all vestiges of their culture quietly wiped from everything in America. Perhaps the only place they belong is in the history books. I for one am going to support that anything having to even sound a little Indian be changed to something I like. Things like streets, rivers, counties, mascots, clothing, food. All of it. Anything in our culture that reminds us of Indians should be quietly renamed. To hell with them. They should have died away a long time ago.

[honeygrl]

I thought American Indians was the right term.. that's what was in my history book in high school in the 90's I think. It's interesting that white guys/gals are the only people you don't have to worry about using the right term for... It's always been white person and probably always will.

[honeygrl]

"Perhaps the only place they belong is in the history books. I for one am going to support that anything having to even sound a little Indian be changed to something I like. Things like streets, rivers, counties, mascots, clothing, food. All of it. Anything in our culture that reminds us of Indians should be quietly renamed. To hell with them. They should have died away a long time ago. "

That's going a bit far.. why such dislike? A lot of my ancestors were Cherokee so I enjoy going to the reservations now and visiting the stores and such to get a little glimpse of what types of things my ancestors had back then but I really don't like the people who get offended so easily by stuff like this poem.

[Billthedrill]

Oh, I think you're just being grumpy. You don't have to deify Indian cultures to be amazed by their variety, depth, and beauty. The problem is the current crop of culture nannies is so locked into the "oppressed peoples" mode of thought that it sets these folks up as something they never were nor did they ever claim to be - noble, idealistic, faultless earth-worshippers buried under a tide of evil white migration, yada yada, ad nauseum. Pop history, proliferated by the self-flagellatory and self-pitying.

But there's some really interesting stuff out there that bears study. How the Lakota came to be where they were when Lewis and Clark came upon them, and why their neighbors didn't like them. Why the Navajos were unloved by other tribes in their area and why the latter helped Kit Carson to fight them despite the fact that Kit was their friend and their neighbors were not. The parallel - or was it? - rise and fall of the Pueblo and Anasazi cultures. The existence of racism among and between tribes at very different stages of cultural development - the Shoshoni, for example, against some of the migratory Plains tribes who shoved them around. The high culture of the Iriquoi. The incredible story of the Mississippi Valley civilization, killed by European diseases before European eyes ever saw it.

In a real sense as an American it's your history and culture as well, just as jazz, baseball, puritanism, Santeria, siestas, and Mountain Man rendezvous are. The race balkanizers would have us believe that unless our skins are the appropriate color we don't have a claim on any of these. Fact is, it isn't theirs to take away.

[grapeape]

Simple, they have jumped on the hate-whitey band wagon. I have grown up trying to pull people together just to get pissed on by them. i am sick of being stabbed in the back. I can tell you from experience that sticking up for what was right was a very dumb thing to do. If they want to complain about naming things after them lets change it. Being magnanimous has gotten us no where.

[grapeape]

Good point Bill, your right it is our history. It should stay there. If these people are going to constantly complain then let them be relegated to history. If they are so smart then why don't they do the smart thing and tell liberals to quit using them to hate whitie!!! Are they that short sighted? Yes. That is why they were supposed to have died off by now. It is only because we are so damn nice that we have to accommodate the invalids. Sometimes being a Christian is such a pain in the neck.

[cyncooper]

R.Scott observed:

Only the new title is offensive. It was changed once, change it again

That is correct. Weegee posted the poem from the novel and the very last line contains the alternate title:

"And Then There Were None."

[Fred Mertz]

Thanks.

[weegee]

Actually it is the reference to "heaven" that would be seen as imposing religious dogma on students that would also get it banned.