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Some see Jewish shift toward GOP
Boston Globe ^ | 5/7/2003 | Anne E. Kornblut

Posted on 05/07/2003 7:59:46 AM PDT by Nonstatist

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:09:45 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

The Jewish community responded enthusiastically when Senator Joseph I. Lieberman joined the presidential ticket in 2000, a move many saw as recognition of their long support for the party of Franklin D. Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy. As they had for every election in decades, Jewish voters overwhelmingly cast their ballots for the Democrats.


(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: elections; gop; jewishamericans; jews; voting
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The times are a-changing.
1 posted on 05/07/2003 7:59:46 AM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: Nonstatist
yes they are! Ya and may I be the first to welcome you on board, next stop latinos.
2 posted on 05/07/2003 8:01:26 AM PDT by hapy
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To: Nonstatist
Too bad their paramount concern is Israel, not America.
3 posted on 05/07/2003 8:03:13 AM PDT by cynicom
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To: Nonstatist
Two points:

The % of Jews marrying outside their faith has exploded in the last decade, and shows no signs of slowing...and when Jews marry WASPS...they tend to go along..(g)

Seriously,becuase Jewsish voters are scattered throughout the country..unlike black voters, who are heavily concentrated...the small % swing among Jewsih voters can affect several Congressinal races....possibly a few Senate contests..and, thus, a few states electoral votes....

4 posted on 05/07/2003 8:06:45 AM PDT by ken5050
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To: Nonstatist
The city in which I live is heavily Jewish and heavily Democratic. It's a city in which Republicans never had a chance.

Should be interesting next year.

5 posted on 05/07/2003 8:06:55 AM PDT by Mears
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To: cynicom
Too bad their paramount concern is Israel

Everybody has their pet issues.. I hear the Family Research Council/Dobson et al. are thinking of bailing out of their support of Republicans because Bush did not prop Santorum up with more "enthusiasm". How's that for single issueism ?

6 posted on 05/07/2003 8:09:31 AM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: Nonstatist
I hate to sound anti-Semitic, but I'll beleive this when I see it.

Back in 1999 the Democratic Party conducted extensive polling behind the scenes, and they determined that New York was the only state in the U.S. where Hillary Clinton had any chance in hell of winning a Senate seat. Mainly because of the large number of minorities and secular Jews who have always been nihilistic and unapologetically leftist in their political outlook.

7 posted on 05/07/2003 8:11:50 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Nonstatist
Damned conservatives. Pubs hate em, cept at election time, then they scare them with the tactic that the dems are worse. Now that is a true barometer of how pubs feel about themselves.

We all have single issues, beyond which we will not go.

8 posted on 05/07/2003 8:14:13 AM PDT by cynicom
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To: Nonstatist
I have several Jewish friends that have been pretty strong RATS. In conversations recently they have been impressed with President Bush's leadership in the liberation of Iraq and his strong support for Israel. I doubt they're ready to vote Republican, but they're certainly more interested in the pubbies than they have been in the past. I suppose time will tell.

And, FWIW, none of them believe the "Roadmap" will work because of the "kill the infidels" attitude of the Palies. Change the mindset, then change the politics.

9 posted on 05/07/2003 8:14:17 AM PDT by upchuck (Contribute to "Republicans for Al Sharpton for President in 2004." Dial 1-800-SLAPTHADONKEY :)
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To: Alberta's Child
Its not anti-Semitic. I have relatives like that. They really nauseate me. And they like to pick fights and make nasty political comments whenever they can. Even at inappropriate times ie; weddings, Barmitzvahs, family gatherings. UGH!
10 posted on 05/07/2003 8:16:32 AM PDT by ladyesk
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To: Alberta's Child
they determined that New York was the only state in the U.S. where Hillary Clinton had any chance in hell of winning a Senate seat. Mainly because of the large number of minorities and secular Jews who have always been nihilistic

Except for the fact that the majority of Jews in New York during Hillary's Senate race voted for her opponent and not her. So , yea, you do sound a bit anti-Semitic.

11 posted on 05/07/2003 8:18:00 AM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: Alberta's Child
Yup. She even won New York after her husband parolled >100 FALN terrorists, and after she was caught referring to "Those Fvcking Jews!"
12 posted on 05/07/2003 8:20:33 AM PDT by Cobra64
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To: Nonstatist
Except for the fact that the majority of Jews in New York during Hillary's Senate race voted for her opponent and not her.

If you have a source for that, I'd love to see it. Knowing what I do about New York politics, I find that very hard to believe.

Heck, even those ultra-orthodox Satmars up in New Square voted for her by a margin of something like 1,100 to 4. Seriously.

13 posted on 05/07/2003 8:21:15 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Nonstatist
I have a question. What, exactly, was the draw to the liberals in the first place?
14 posted on 05/07/2003 8:21:36 AM PDT by mabelkitty
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To: cynicom
They may also be beginning to realize that the Democrat Party has become the repository for anti-semitic belief in this country.As Jews become more aware of the incidents of attacks on Jews in France and other european countries they will react to people like McDermott.

Unlike the Blacks they will react when the Dems deny Lieberman the nomination because he is Jewish.He has no chance in the primaries because close to 50% of the Democrat base are anti-semetic.He probably has a better chance in the general election than the primaries.
15 posted on 05/07/2003 8:22:07 AM PDT by Blessed
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To: Nonstatist
I wonder where the muslim vote will go? They leaned to the GOP pre 9-11 but I haven't seen any recent polling.

Perhaps it will be a wash with muslims crossingover to the rats?

16 posted on 05/07/2003 8:22:28 AM PDT by Brian S
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To: Nonstatist
Dobson does that every election cycle; are you actually suggesting that American Jews are overly attached to Israel?

Charging American Jews with dual loyalty is a serious accusation that you seem to agree with since it suits the GOP.
17 posted on 05/07/2003 8:23:45 AM PDT by JohnGalt (They're All Lying)
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To: JohnGalt
are you actually suggesting that American Jews are overly attached to Israel?

Not at all. They are drawn to Bush's leadership and strength in foreign policy, as compared to the opponents vaccilations and weakness. Just like they preferred Reagan, Guliani, etc.

18 posted on 05/07/2003 8:28:11 AM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: ken5050
i.e., Cynthia McKinney.
19 posted on 05/07/2003 8:28:13 AM PDT by mabelkitty
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To: JohnGalt
Charging American Jews with dual loyalty is a serious accusation

LOL. Coming from a Buchananite, that's pretty funny.

20 posted on 05/07/2003 8:29:21 AM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: Blessed
Jewish block voting seems to no longer exist. Another ponderable is the vicious anti-American/Bush attacks by so many Hollywood and other elite jews. Just perhaps this is one minority that no longer is led about on a democrat leash. Now if the blacks would think for themselves, the dems would have to stop taking them for granted.
21 posted on 05/07/2003 8:30:05 AM PDT by cynicom
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To: Alberta's Child
One fact: Hillary only "won" her seat because Daniel Patrick Moynihan paved the way for her so she didn't even have to campaign.

If you remember, she had her husband do some pardons and other things to get elected.

But mostly, it was the support of the rather decent (from both sides of the aisle) Daniel Patrick Moynihan that gave it to her.

That and fraud.

She knows she won't win now her seat in '06, so she has to run for Prez in '04. Once iberal Jews in New York are the ones doing the booing at functions that we hear about like the Oscars, Bill Clinton and Willie Nelson's birthday party, and other events that made news.
22 posted on 05/07/2003 8:31:44 AM PDT by mabelkitty
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To: Nonstatist
I am not a Buchanite, but you strengthen his point of view.

Get it?
23 posted on 05/07/2003 8:36:16 AM PDT by JohnGalt (They're All Lying)
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To: Nonstatist
Secondly...hit post too soon, Buchanan charged the Neoconservative Clique which is clearly out of lockstep with American Jews at large with dual loyalty, not American Jews. Your slander continues to undermine any point you might be trying to make.


Oh, and Hillary won the Jewish vote in NY somewhere between 55-60% according to CNN.
24 posted on 05/07/2003 8:37:54 AM PDT by JohnGalt (They're All Lying)
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To: mabelkitty
You're being a little naive. She also won because she was running against a Republican candidate who was mediocre even comapred to your typical mediocre northeastern Republicans these days.

Once liberal Jews in New York are the ones doing the booing at functions that we hear about . . .

That's a laugh. "Once-liberal Jews" is a bit of an oxymoron -- hard-core socialists don't change very easily.

25 posted on 05/07/2003 8:38:41 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: JohnGalt
Buchanan charged the Neoconservative Clique which is clearly out of lockstep with American Jews at large with dual loyalty, not American Jews. Your slander continues to undermine any point you might be trying to make.

Where did I use the term "dual loyalty" ? What is it with you Birchers; every rock under every tree justifies your bigotry?

26 posted on 05/07/2003 9:05:38 AM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: Nonstatist
Money talks and BS walks. When the Jewish contribute and vote for the GOP is when I will be convinced. It is about time that the Jewish learn that the Demwits are prostitutes and they will do and say anything to get their money. Once the Dimwits have your money they are down the road not to be heard from until the next election cycle. The Blacks, Hispanics, Asians and Jewish need to learn that if they are working class people the Dimwits are their adversaries.
27 posted on 05/07/2003 9:06:40 AM PDT by kellynla ("C" 1/5 1st Mar Div Viet Nam '69 & '70 Semper Fi)
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To: Nonstatist
So, yea, you do sound a bit anti-Semitic.

If JohnGalt's numbers in Post #24 are correct, than you sound a bit full of sh!t, too.

28 posted on 05/07/2003 9:11:30 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Nonstatist
I have several Jewish friends that have been pretty strong RATS

Somehow the notion of referring to your friends as RATS made me chuckle.

In any case, we've all seen a bunch of stories like this one recently. For the time being, I'll side with the "seeing is believing crowd." I'm Jewish, and in speaking with some of my liberal Jewish friends, Pres. Bush doesn't seem to get much credit. Then again, they are generally older. I do believe things are changing among younger Jews.

I believe someone on the thread asked for an explanation of the phenomenon of Jewish support of Democrats.

I'd say it goes back to FDR, who was seen as: fighting the Depression (even if he didn't really do anything to end it); defeating Hitler; and generally having positive attitudes towards new Americans, particularly including Jews.

At the same time, Republicans were viewed, not without some justification, as being the exclusive, country club, slightly anti-Semitic party.

There's no doubt that the Democratic Party is now home to the majority of the virulent anti-Semites, a combo of far lefties and, sadly, many blacks. But old voting habits die hard.

29 posted on 05/07/2003 9:25:00 AM PDT by governsleastgovernsbest
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To: Alberta's Child
Oh, I stand corrected.. from ABC News..

Mrs. Clinton won the Jewish vote, but by a much smaller margin than typical Democratic candidates — 56 percent of Jews in the state voted for Mrs. Clinton as compared with 81 percent for Gore.

So, I apologize. You still sound like an anti-Semite, however.

30 posted on 05/07/2003 9:27:36 AM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: Alberta's Child
What makes you think liberal Jews are hard core Socialists? That's a rather anti-Semitic tone.

I'll play your game. If I'm being naive, then Hillary will win her seat again in 2006.
31 posted on 05/07/2003 9:34:35 AM PDT by mabelkitty
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To: Alberta's Child; mabelkitty; Nonstatist
To get the accurate info I shall PING the FReeper who knows: NYC GOP Chick!
32 posted on 05/07/2003 9:39:17 AM PDT by onyx
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To: NYC GOP Chick
PLEASE set us straight!
33 posted on 05/07/2003 9:40:31 AM PDT by onyx
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To: Alberta's Child
I don't think you sound anti-Semitic, and unfortunately, I think you are correct about the Hildebeast. My father and I have long wondered why we seem to be among the very few Jewish Republicans (let alone conservatives!) whom we know -- and we're not among the more religious ones.

It's just a reflex with so many of them, and most look at me like I have 3 heads on my neck when I tell them that I am not a 'rat.

34 posted on 05/07/2003 9:45:40 AM PDT by NYC GOP Chick (Clinton Legacy = 16-acre hole in the ground in lower Manhattan)
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To: Nonstatist
Except for the fact that the majority of Jews in New York during Hillary's Senate race voted for her opponent and not her. So , yea, you do sound a bit anti-Semitic.

Not true at all. She won with a little more than half the Jewish votes in New York -- although signficantly less than the 75% or so that Putzhead got 2 years earlier.

And while I've had a few disagreements (on other topics) with AC, the anti-Semite charge is WAY out of line here.

35 posted on 05/07/2003 9:47:28 AM PDT by NYC GOP Chick (Clinton Legacy = 16-acre hole in the ground in lower Manhattan)
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To: mabelkitty
She knows she won't win now her seat in '06, so she has to run for Prez in '04. Once iberal Jews in New York are the ones doing the booing at functions that we hear about like the Oscars, Bill Clinton and Willie Nelson's birthday party, and other events that made news.

At last year's Israel Day Parade here in NYC, she glumly marched along, with a blank stare and wearing her Latin dictator-style dark glasses, while other politicians were whooping it up with the crowds. After the politicians passed the block where my dad and I were standing, a couple of people started asking if she had been there, if they missed her, etc., and the response was, shall we say, underwhelming.

One person grumbled "You didn't miss anything" and others sneered that she probably didn't even want to be there.

Later, my dad and I were snickering about how we were likely the only GOP Jews in that crowd and these people who are usually Clinton fans (from Upper East Side old ladies to Upper West Side yuppies to European immigrants from Brooklyn), they were trashing her!

36 posted on 05/07/2003 9:52:28 AM PDT by NYC GOP Chick (Clinton Legacy = 16-acre hole in the ground in lower Manhattan)
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To: Nonstatist
Not a Bircher either, but I can safely say you have proven rather ignorant to the real non-statist groups and movements out on the further Right of the American political spectrum. Check out the writings of the late Jewish liberty theorist, Murray Rothbard and you'll have some idea where I am coming from.

You are implying that issues involving Israel, i.e. the perception that one is "pro-Israel," will attract more Jewish voters. That is the political component of the dual loyalty charge. In a less 'loaded' example, Steve Forbes proposed extending a NAFTA like arrangement to Ireland in 2000 campaign; he was relying on some ethnic dual loyalty to help win in New England, only he had dropped out by the time we had our primary here in Massachusetts. Political science, anyone?
37 posted on 05/07/2003 9:53:23 AM PDT by JohnGalt (They're All Lying)
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To: onyx
About what? That the hag got a little over half the Jewish vote in NY? That is true. And thanks for the faith in me. Flattery will get you everywhere! :)
38 posted on 05/07/2003 9:55:32 AM PDT by NYC GOP Chick (Clinton Legacy = 16-acre hole in the ground in lower Manhattan)
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To: Nonstatist
Richard Scammon wrote in "The Real Majority" in the late-1960's that the Jewish community was more entrenched with the Democrats than the Catholics, who would later become the core of "Reagan Democrats" and eventually "pro-life" Republicans. However, the element of "tradition" (my granddad voted for FDR, my dad for JFK, so I'm a lifelong Democrat) is abating, as is the influence of religious affiliation on members of the Jewish community. There are currently 12.3 million Jews in the world (down about a half-million from ten years ago). There are 5-million in Israel and 5.9 in the U.S. At this rate, Israel will have more Arab and Christian residents than Jewish ones in the next 20 years, making governance by Jews in a Jewish state more challenging, if not impossible. Furthermore, more Jews are either not identifying themselves as Jews (due to things such as intermarriage) or consider themselves cultural rather than Jewish by religion.

In the long run, because of high reproduction rates, the Arabs will outnumber the Jews in the U.S. electorate within the next decade. Consequently, with declining electoral numbers, Jewish influence will come as a result of money or being in places of high influence. With these considerations, critical thinkers within the Jewish community should carefully reconsider their blind loyalty to the Democrat party, what it has gotten them, and what it will deliver in the future.

39 posted on 05/07/2003 9:56:09 AM PDT by MHT
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To: Alberta's Child
"Mainly because of the large number of minorities and secular Jews who have always been nihilistic and unapologetically leftist in their political outlook."

What about the nihilistic, unapologetic Roman Catholics? There's 14 million Jews in the world in total and hundreds of millions of secular Catholics, and last time I looked this latter group had done far more damage to the world than the Jewish people.

And actually Jews, secular and otherwise, are in the main very far from nihilistic. Jews love life - they revel in it. It's part of the reason why they are so successful and why for example New York is not only incredibly vibrant and dynamic but the most successful city on earth. Not for nothing did the terrorists of 9/11 pick NYC. Not just a "Jewish city" but also fabulously wealthy.

The great majority of the over 22% of Jews who have won Nobel Prizes have been secular. Are you suggesting that all those geniuses who have improved the lot of mankind so incalculably were nihilistic? Can you, for example, even hold a candle to just one of them?

40 posted on 05/07/2003 9:57:41 AM PDT by Tarsk
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To: upchuck
Tell em to come on down they are welcome
41 posted on 05/07/2003 10:00:16 AM PDT by CPT Clay
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To: JohnGalt
Murray Rothbard

Rothbard is a very interesting read - especially his The Ethics of Liberty - and was a very smart guy, but his anarchistic advocacy of no gov't (rather than limited gov't) goes a bit too far for my taste. His arguments, however, are very persuasive and should at least be checked out by anyone interested in the subject.

42 posted on 05/07/2003 10:02:38 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: MHT
"With these considerations, critical thinkers within the Jewish community should carefully reconsider their blind loyalty to the Democrat party, what it has gotten them, and what it will deliver in the future."

Blind loyalty has got Jews nowhere whichever political party they have supported. Every religion (although Roman Catholicism has been by far the worst in this respect) have persecuted and murdered Jews. Every political party from both right and left has abandoned the Jewish people when it proved expedient for them to do so.

Your figures about Israel are also incorrect unless you include the territories which I cannot forsee being in Israel's hands in 20 years.

Incidentally, I don't imagine your rather unsubtle threats will do much to endear American Jews to your cause either.
43 posted on 05/07/2003 10:03:29 AM PDT by Tarsk
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To: Alberta's Child
those ultra-orthodox Satmars up in New Square

Ultra-Orthodox Jews in New Square are Skvira Hasidim (hence the name "New Square" which derives from "New Skvira"). Satmars live in Williamsburg and Kiryas Yoel.

With this embarrassing exception, most Orthodox Jews in NY voted for Lazio.

44 posted on 05/07/2003 10:06:25 AM PDT by Alouette (Why is it called "International Law" if only Israel and the United States are expected to keep it?)
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To: Alberta's Child
"secular Jews who have always been nihilistic and unapologetically leftist in their political outlook. "

I've known some folks like that. Often they don't have kids. I don't worry too much about these kind of people having a lot of influence in a generation or two, due to their lack of interest in reproducing.
45 posted on 05/07/2003 10:09:04 AM PDT by SBprone
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To: Cobra64
.....she was caught referring to "Those Fvcking Jews!".....

Just for the sake of correctness, I believe it was, "Effing Jew bastard!".

46 posted on 05/07/2003 10:10:06 AM PDT by DoctorMichael (...............ooooo-shu-be-do-wop.................)
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To: Nonstatist
Just the fact that the rats have to THINK about how the Jewish voters will go, means trouble in the evil donkey's barn. Add this to the fact that there are now cracks in the once solid Black vote and; we've got lots of dumb rat stunts to sit back and watch!
47 posted on 05/07/2003 10:17:13 AM PDT by jmaroneps37
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To: Mr. Mojo
Personally, I liked his 'take' on American history. He took the theories of the Austrian school of economics and wrote an entire story of the American experience as a permanent alternative to the governments story.

Rothbard is guilty as charged, however, I am sure you are aware that he did not just theorize he focused on pragmatic solutions like creating the Cato Institute, which many modern day conservatives are at least familiar with. I also point out to his practical application for supporting immigration restrictions to prevent the welfare state from recruiting more clients...that was a sharp break from the modern day, left-leaning Libertarian Party.

Lastly, his efforts to revive the Old Right in the 1990s has created an entire intellectual movement that stands opposite the DC establishment. Link below, to Tom Fleming's tribute:

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/Chronicles/December2000/1200Fleming.htm
48 posted on 05/07/2003 10:17:15 AM PDT by JohnGalt (They're All Lying)
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To: Nonstatist
"Some see Jewish shift toward GOP"

Well, duhhhhhhh.

I live in a Chicago 'burb with a high concentration of Jews (30-40% of the population), mostly younger. The shift in political attitudes here has been nothing short of amazing. Prior to 9/11 most of my Juppie neighbors were perfunctorially left-lib, and routinely dismissed W as an lightweight idiot Texas goy, blah blah blah. Sort of a breezy throw-away "enlightened" attitude.

All that began to change on 9-11, and continued to change. With every Pro-Palestinian March on Berkeley, every Sheila Jackson Lee embrace of terrorist front groups, every ANSWER anti-war rally. Many have finally realized where their real allies are... politically, economically, and survival-wise.

I am now pleasantly shocked to hear many jewish neighbors voice public support for Bush and other Republicans, something that almost never occured before 2001. It's gone from 80-20 to 40-60.

49 posted on 05/07/2003 10:17:35 AM PDT by IowaHawk
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To: mabelkitty
What makes you think liberal Jews are hard core Socialists?

Aren't they? If you look at all the major political figures in this country and organize them by race and ethnicity, you'll find that the most hard-core leftists are blacks and secular Jews. It's also interesting to note how many of these leftists have family roots in cities in the northeastern U.S. This is no accident -- these cities were enclaves for immigrants from eastern Europe in the early decades of the 20th century who brought some of the mindset of their Communist homelands with them to the U.S.

Just look at the people who are held (rightly!) up as objects of ridicule on this site -- Do you think it's just a coincidence that there are a disproportionate number of minorities and secular Jews among them?

50 posted on 05/07/2003 10:21:47 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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