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DEATH PENALTY DETERS MURDER
NCPA Daily Policy Digest ^ | May 7, 2003 | William Tucker

Posted on 05/07/2003 5:44:52 PM PDT by bruinbirdman

Using data from U.S. Census Reports, a correlation between executions and homicide rate from 1930-2000 can be shown, says William Tucker. His data reveals falling murder rates when the death penalty is implemented and escalating murder rates when the courts prohibited capital punishment in the early 1960s.

There is no way to contravene the logic of murder, he explains, except through the death penalty. No amount of victims' pleading or cajoling -- no promises that "I won't tell" -- will ever convince a robber or rapist that there isn't an advantage to escalating the crime to murder.

The only plausible deterrent is a qualitatively different punishment, he says:

o If the punishment for robbery is a few years in jail and the punishment for murder is a few more years after that, there is very little if any deterrence -- but if the punishment for robbery is jail time and the punishment for murder is death, there is reason to think twice.

o By contrast, eliminating the death penalty creates the exact same dilemma -- without any qualitative differential, there is no disincentive to murder the victim of the crime.

Almost the entire increase in murder from 1966 to the mid-1900s was an increase in felony or "stranger" murders -- murders committed during the course of another crime. Only when executions resumed in the 1990s did the murder rate drop precipitously to its 1960s level.

Source: William Tucker, "Deterring Homicides/With the Death Penalty," Human Events, Vol. 59, No. 12, April 2003.

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TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: capitalpunishment; deathpenalty; deter; deterrant; deterrent; duh; fryem; murder

1 posted on 05/07/2003 5:44:53 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: bruinbirdman
Almost the entire increase in murder from 1966 to the mid-1900s was an increase in felony or "stranger" murders

That's a strange sentence. I didn't know time travel had been perfected.

3 posted on 05/07/2003 5:47:47 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: bruinbirdman
Common sense. Criminals are godless and fear nothing but a ticket to hell. Personally, I think we should bring back public hangings on the court house square. There is nothing like the site of a suspended corpse twisting in the wind to make a would-be killer think twice.
4 posted on 05/07/2003 5:49:11 PM PDT by Vigilanteman
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To: bruinbirdman
BOOKMARKED
BUMP
5 posted on 05/07/2003 5:50:17 PM PDT by ppaul
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To: bruinbirdman
Correlation is NOT causation. It may well be a deterrent but this study proves nothing because it ignores several confounders including the intensification of the drug war since the 60s, urban renewal, and the aging population of the 90s.
6 posted on 05/07/2003 5:52:02 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (Everyone knows you can't have a successful conspiracy without a Rockefeller)
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To: EricOKC
"Hmm...ok - and water is wet, fire burns, democrats are scum, we know all this "

Actually, the consensus among criminologists has always been that the death penalty has NO deterrent effect.

So this is 'news'.
7 posted on 05/07/2003 5:52:46 PM PDT by edwin hubble
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To: Vigilanteman
Couldn't-agree-more-bump.
8 posted on 05/07/2003 5:54:25 PM PDT by detsaoT
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To: edwin hubble
Actually, the consensus among criminologists has always been that the death penalty has NO deterrent effect.

------------------------

It has a deterrent eggect.

9 posted on 05/07/2003 5:58:37 PM PDT by RLK
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: bruinbirdman
Thanks for posting this.

Unfortunately, the way the appeals system is set up, most death-rowers will die of old age rather than execution. Their VICTIMS pleading may not have stopped the murderer from murdering them, but the MURDERERS know THEIR pleading WILL buy them as much time as they want.

11 posted on 05/07/2003 6:02:11 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: bruinbirdman
Most criminologists will dispute the notion that the death penalty serves as a deterrent. The data to support that simply isn't there.

What does serve as a deterrent is the expectation of getting apprehended. Most criminals either do not expect to be apprehended or they do not take the possible consequences of their crimes into account at the the time they commit them.
12 posted on 05/07/2003 6:03:26 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: EricOKC
For the past twenty years I've heard the death penalty ISN'T a deterent.

Nice to see that common sense and the silent majority are finally starting to speak out.

13 posted on 05/07/2003 6:05:08 PM PDT by lizma
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To: RLK
Death Penalty...
"It has a deterrent eggect. "

RLK,
I have always enjoyed your wit and irony.
I have still working on "eggect" and am feeling very dense.
I may have to ask you email me a reference on that one.
14 posted on 05/07/2003 7:03:57 PM PDT by edwin hubble
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To: edwin hubble
The deterrent effect on those executed is absolute.
15 posted on 05/07/2003 7:20:46 PM PDT by Eleven Bravo 6 319thID
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To: Eleven Bravo 6 319thID
The deterrent effect on those executed is absolute.

True, but...

In an approximately Christian society, there is no need for us to be executing people. It removes them, but it sets a bad example.

16 posted on 05/07/2003 8:09:29 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: edwin hubble
"Actually, the consensus among criminologists has always been that the death penalty has NO deterrent effect."

Oh, but it does! Those murderers who are executed will never murder again.

17 posted on 05/07/2003 8:15:21 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE.)
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To: edwin hubble
I have still working on "eggect" and am feeling very dense.

------------

G is close to F on the Keyboard. I often don't catch it when my finger slips. Eggect=effect.

18 posted on 05/07/2003 10:24:53 PM PDT by RLK
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To: bruinbirdman
The death penalty is not deterrent to other would-be murderers. How can it deter when most people don't even know which offenses are death penalty eligible? In addition, the death penalty was not abolished in the early 60s. IT WAS ABOLISHED IN 1972 AND RETURNED IN 1976. Before it was abolished, death penalty cases were already rare. After it was reinstated,however, states (primarily southern) pursued it with a vengeance. Could this possibly have anything to do with the southern states being pissed just because the supreme court had told them in 1972 that they could not carry the death penalty out anymore. By the way, the case which resulted in the abolition of the death penalty was Furman v. Georgia. First, educate yourself, then if you still have the same opinion more people will probably take you seriously.
19 posted on 01/13/2004 1:13:05 PM PST by heidispring (wake up and join the educated)
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To: heidispring; BlueLancer; Poohbah; Constitution Day; hellinahandcart; 4mycountry
The death penalty is not deterrent to other would-be murderers. How can it deter when most people don't even know which offenses are death penalty eligible?

Welcome to FreeRepublic. My, what an old thread you've bumped!

Gotta be careful around here. Some people still believe in death by electrocution.

20 posted on 01/13/2004 2:00:30 PM PST by dighton
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To: heidispring
How can it deter when most people don't even know which offenses are death penalty eligible?

Murder and treason, that's about it.

Not too long a list for any person to memorize. And you really only have to remember the first one, since treason charges are rarely brought and extremely difficult to prove.

And your remarks about Southern states show me that YOU are the one who is not to be taken seriously.

21 posted on 01/13/2004 3:39:43 PM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: hellinahandcart
Along with murder and treason, you can include purjury along with trainwrecking (on purpose of course). Let's not forget that 2 states have plane hijacking (regardless of whether or not anyone is killed) listed as death eligible offenses. How about piracy, were you aware of that one? Read, then try again.
22 posted on 01/13/2004 5:08:23 PM PST by heidispring (wake up and join the educated)
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To: hellinahandcart
And i am southern
23 posted on 01/13/2004 5:09:43 PM PST by heidispring (wake up and join the educated)
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To: Squawk 8888
"Correlation is NOT causation."

Thank you for saying that.

24 posted on 01/13/2004 5:18:39 PM PST by DaGman
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To: heidispring; dighton; aculeus; general_re; L,TOWM; Constitution Day; hellinahandcart; ...
"...you can include purjury..."

PERJURY (as it is commonly spelled by those who know such things) is not a death penalty offense, even in Texas .. although I wouldn't be sorry if they made it so.

Your assertion that people don't understand what crimes can result in the death penalty is unproven and only asserted by you. Do you have any statistical data or census data that shows such? If not, you are simply working off your hormones, your bleeding heart, and your wasted education. The crimes most associated with the death penalty are fairly easily understood ... after all, there aren't a lot of pirates being hung on gallows near the water's edge any more. The easiest thing to do is to obey the laws .. all of the laws, or at least as many as you can .. and you shouldn't have any worry about being put to death.

Personally, I hope that there are some out there who don't know if aggravated rape is a death penalty case in one State and not in another; the uncertainty might help keep them honest. If you murder .. and note that I make the use of the term "murder" in the most legalistic sense, not simply "killing" .. someone, you deserve to die. If you rape someone in a brutal and aggravated fashion, you deserve to die. If you maliciously injure, rape, or kill a child, you deserve to die. If you are a traitor .. and, here, I would advocate the most liberal sense of the word "treason" .. you deserve to die.

And I would be very happy to pull the lever needed to accomplish this most deserving end.

25 posted on 01/13/2004 5:27:25 PM PST by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsënspåånkængrüppen ØberKømmååndø (EMØØK))
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To: heidispring; dighton
you can include purjury along with trainwrecking (on purpose of course).

Well, the combination of perjury and trainwrecking *is* particularly abominable. :P

Since you're so "well read", let's have a list of the poor souls who have faced capital charges, let alone been sentenced to death, for plane hijacking and piracy since 1976.

26 posted on 01/13/2004 5:30:33 PM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: heidispring
Along with murder and treason, you can include purjury along with trainwrecking (on purpose of course). Let's not forget that 2 states have plane hijacking (regardless of whether or not anyone is killed) listed as death eligible offenses. How about piracy, were you aware of that one? Read, then try again.

Interesting. None of these offenses are the sort that would be committed by an honest person. Maybe we're better off with this ilk.

27 posted on 01/13/2004 5:32:49 PM PST by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man" -- John Dryden)
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To: BlueLancer
Here is some statistical data, one person has been executed for lying during a death penalty case. If you want the name, give me some time, i have it somewhere in my notes. The point here is that not all people are aware of death eligible offenses, and not all types of murder are eligible. In order for the death penalty to deter, all murderers must pay equally with the death penalty. When was the last time a wealthy murderer was sentenced to death? When I say wealthy I am referring to 100,000+. I do not argue that murderers deserve the death penalty. But, what involves one class should involve other classes. Although much has been done and I am sure much will be done to deal with the issues of racism in death penalty cases, I see no way to resolve class issues. As for my bleeding heart, I never once said that I am against the death penalty. You assumed. As for my spelling, I'm not accustomed to using a spellchecker, and sometimes get a little carried away.
28 posted on 01/13/2004 8:24:43 PM PST by heidispring (wake up and join the educated)
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To: heidispring
Here is some statistical data, one person has been executed for lying during a death penalty case.

That's not a statistic, that's a sentence. We can make 'em too.

29 posted on 01/13/2004 8:29:22 PM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: heidispring
All I can say is that the man who shot me and murdered two people in the same criminal transaction can never kill again thanks to the Texas death chamber.

But don't worry to much: He was a middle-aged white male with assets of more than $500K.

30 posted on 01/13/2004 8:30:05 PM PST by writmeister
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To: hellinahandcart
There has been a case where an individual was executed for perjury during a death penalty case. As for the other, I don't know that they have ever occured. The point was that not everyone is aware of all laws. Also, not all murderers are sentenced to die. Where is the fairness in that kind of system? I say all or nothing.
31 posted on 01/13/2004 8:30:48 PM PST by heidispring (wake up and join the educated)
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To: heidispring
There has been a case where an individual was executed for perjury during a death penalty case.

Yeah, so you say, but in what century did this happen?

I say all or nothing.

Well, why didn't you say so, sister? I say All, because I really don't care if it deters anyone or not.

32 posted on 01/13/2004 8:36:35 PM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: writmeister
Im afraid your reply was a bit too quick for me not to be suspicious. The chances are a bit unlikely Im afraid. However, if what you say is true (I never assume) I am sorry for your ordeal. Once again, I am afraid this is going to go on and on, I never said I am against the death penalty.
33 posted on 01/13/2004 8:37:59 PM PST by heidispring (wake up and join the educated)
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To: hellinahandcart
Alright I give up. You are absolutely right. Thank you for setting me straight.
34 posted on 01/13/2004 8:39:48 PM PST by heidispring (wake up and join the educated)
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To: BlueLancer
PERJURY (as it is commonly spelled by those who know such things) is not a death penalty offense, even in Texas .. although I wouldn't be sorry if they made it so.

Spoken like a true officer of the court ;)

35 posted on 01/13/2004 8:40:56 PM PST by general_re ("Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson)
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To: heidispring
You're welcome.
36 posted on 01/13/2004 8:45:48 PM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: The Other Harry
In an approximately Christian society, there is no need for us to be executing people. It removes them, but it sets a bad example.

A majority of Americans support the bad example that it sets.

37 posted on 01/13/2004 8:57:52 PM PST by judgeandjury
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To: BlueLancer
In Texas, not even all murders are death penalty eligible. Only murders which fall into certain categories such as murder in the course of another felony, murder of a police officer or a child, or solicitation of murder (list not exclusive).

In fact, in the cases reinstating the death penalty, the Supreme Court has held that the death penalty can only be assessed for murder.

38 posted on 01/13/2004 8:58:39 PM PST by writmeister
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To: heidispring
Although much has been done and I am sure much will be done to deal with the issues of racism in death penalty cases, I see no way to resolve class issues.

Whenever somebody brings up the subject of racism in death penalty cases, it makes me wonder why it seems that almost every time an execution is carried out, the condemmed is a white person.

39 posted on 01/13/2004 9:05:45 PM PST by judgeandjury
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To: judgeandjury
I wasnt speaking of the race of the criminal, I was speaking of the race of the victim.
40 posted on 01/14/2004 9:59:57 AM PST by heidispring (wake up and join the educated)
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